Shark kills French diver in Marsa Alam

[muha]

CAIRO, June 2 (Reuters) - A shark attacked and killed a French tourist diving in a remote site off Egypt's Red Sea coast on Tuesday, in the first fatal shark attack in the Arab country since 2004, state media and a French embassy official said.

"I can confirm that there is one French citizen killed by a shark in the Red Sea south of Marsa Alam," French embassy spokesman Jean-Marie Safa said.

The woman's leg showed visible bite marks, and she likely bled to death before being lifted to the surface, Egyptian state news agency MENA quoted a medical source as saying.

Marsa Alam is a remote southern dive spot on the Red Sea coast frequented by tourists hoping to avoid the crowds at more popular sites in the Sinai peninsula, where tourists flock in large numbers for the colourful coral reefs.

"This very rarely happens. It seems that the victim aggravated the shark or presented it with food, which caused a change in the shark's behaviour," MENA quoted Amr Ali, the president of the Society for the Preservation of the Red Sea Environment, as saying.

Sharks are common in the area and tourists often take pictures, but attacks are rare. The last person killed by a shark in Egypt was attacked while snorkelling near the Sinai resort of Sharm el-Sheikh in 2004, according to the Global Shark Attack File website (Global Shark Attack File home page (http://www.sharkattackfile.net)). Egypt's Environment Ministry is looking to set up a natural reserve for the sharks near Marsa Alam, where it already has a similar reserve for dolphins, MENA added. (Writing by Alastair Sharp)

Reuters AlertNet - Shark kills French tourist off Egypt's Red Sea coast (http://lite.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/L21015454.htm)

[tfsails]

If the above is true and the "victim" was trying to feed the shark, when will they ever learn??

[ScubaRich]

Stop teasing and feeding wild animals. :crocodile: If you have a fish in your hands the shark sees you as a competitor for food! :no: Sad.

[deeper thoughts]

I may be wrong but I was under the impression that this was one of those supervised shark feeds.

[ScubaRich]

I may be wrong but I was under the impression that this was one of those supervised shark feeds.


IMHO, supervised shark feeds are a bad idea! You are training sharks to relate divers with food. There are many oportunities to see sharks in thier natural environment and behavior. There is no need to bait them in with a chumsicle.

[gene02]

Sorry for the lady and her family, but if she was feeding sharks well!! I'm not sure that was a good idea even if she had got by with it this time. I have never seen a shark other than on the business end of my fishing line but I know I wouldn't try feeding one in the wild as a matter of fact I don't feed any wild animal in there environment.

[docmartin]

amazing how people jump to conclusions based on nothing just to get into another shark feed rant. nowhere does it state that this was a supervised sharkfeed. all it says is that the woman had visible bite marks. and then you get a statement from an egyptian saying that this is so very rare and that it SEEMS that she aggravated or tried to feed the shark. the kind of statement one might make when being concerned about tourists being scared away. blame it on the diver and everybody feels safe. it lt all sounds to me like no one really knows what happened.

[docmartin]

There are many oportunities to see sharks in thier natural environment and behavior.

replace "are" with "used to be". I venture to guess that most divers have never seen one (I am not counting nurse sharks). outside of the bahamas you are lucky diver if you see a shark in the carribbean. it happens but it is very rare in most places. to get a good look or even a picture is even rarer. and if you are looking for specific kinds of sharks you can basically forget it. who has seen a great white, a tiger, a mako, a blue without baiting?

[ScubaRich]

amazing how people jump to conclusions based on nothing just to get into another shark feed rant. nowhere does it state that this was a supervised sharkfeed. all it says is that the woman had visible bite marks. and then you get a statement from an egyptian saying that this is so very rare and that it SEEMS that she aggravated or tried to feed the shark. the kind of statement one might make when being concerned about tourists being scared away. blame it on the diver and everybody feels safe. it lt all sounds to me like no one really knows what happened.

I don't think my post was anything close to a "shark feed rant", I merely stated I was against them and my reasons why after someone else made the shark feed comment.
The other poster started off his/her post with "I may be wrong" No one is jumping to conclusions on what happend.

[Air One]

amazing how people jump to conclusions based on nothing

Right.

According to the news we have here : she jumped off the boat because she saw a big fish passing by. The shark attacked her and bit her leg.
Nothing about sharkfeeding.
Maybe is it better for the Egyptian diving tourism industry to say that was her fault ?

Sharks are magnificent wild animals, accidents are very rare, but sometimes it happens.


Le Figaro - Flash actu : Une française tuée par un requin (http://www.lefigaro.fr/flash-actu/2009/06/02/01011-20090602FILWWW00545-une-francaise-tuee-par-un-requin.php)


EDIT : there are few news talking about sharkfeeding here also, the source is always the same : Mr Arm Ali who probably wasn't on the boat.

http://www.lepoint.fr/actualites-societe/2009-06-02/egypte-une-touriste-francaise-tuee-par-un-requin-lors-d-une-plongee-sous/920/0/348787

[openmindOW]

According to the news we have here : she jumped off the boat because she saw a big fish passing by. The shark attacked her and bit her leg.

Thank you. While I wish I could speak French, I do not. Is it accurate to say that the "diver" was bitten while she was on the surface?

[deco_martini]

who has seen a great white, a tiger, a mako, a blue without baiting?

I am pretty sure that nobody aside from a true documentarian or marine biologist needs to see a white, tiger, or mako up close. And no, the shutter bugs at wetpixel don't count as documentarians.

For everyone else, there is discovery channel.

[kilo_fox]

Thank you. While I wish I could speak French, I do not. Is it accurate to say that the "diver" was bitten while she was on the surface?

Yup, that's correct.
According to the article, the woman was aboard a dive board when she noticed a fish of big size close by and jumped into the water in order to get closer.

[kilo_fox]

Yup, that's correct.
According to the article, the woman was aboard a dive board when she noticed a fish of big size close by and jumped into the water in order to get closer.

:rofl3: I guess it's a bad idea to log on to Scubaboard right after waking up....

Should be "dive boat", of course..

[Doubler]

Was the species identified? I am thinking Oceanic Whitetip.

[diver 85]

If the above is true and the "victim" was trying to feed the shark, when will they ever learn??


I hate to say it but sometimes when you play with fire, you get---------

Sorry for the accident though, maybe others will learn from her mistakes......

[vladimir]

amazing how people jump to conclusions based on nothing just to get into another shark feed rant. nowhere does it state that this was a supervised sharkfeed. all it says is that the woman had visible bite marks. and then you get a statement from an egyptian saying that this is so very rare and that it SEEMS that she aggravated or tried to feed the shark. the kind of statement one might make when being concerned about tourists being scared away. blame it on the diver and everybody feels safe. it lt all sounds to me like no one really knows what happened.You are correct, no one really knows what happened. However, I don't think it is amazing that somebody "jumped to the conclusion" that the shark was being fed, based on the statement, "It seems that the victim aggravated the shark or presented it with food, which caused a change in the shark's behaviour." Again, you are correct that Amr Ali probably doesn't know what happened either, and probably has motives other than revealing the true nature of the incident.

What do you suggest? That we restrict discussion in this forum to facts presented by eyewitnesses and coroners? Great--we can close the forum today, because that rarely happens. Or we can discuss the information that we have, hopefully with the realization that it is always suspect to varying degrees, and hopefully we glean some useful discussion out of it. No reasonable reader expects the Scubaboard accidents forum to reach a defintive conclusion on the actual cause or circumstances of an accident.

[samaka]

I may be wrong but I was under the impression that this was one of those supervised shark feeds.

Nope it was not. There is a law in Egypt against feeding and still there are some “Macho Dive Guides” that can’t stop with this idiocy. I think that every single person that has at one point or another been involved in feeding the Longimanus in the Red Sea should now feel that they have part in the cause of this tragedy.


replace "are" with "used to be". I venture to guess that most divers have never seen one (I am not counting nurse sharks). outside of the bahamas you are lucky diver if you see a shark in the carribbean. it happens but it is very rare in most places. to get a good look or even a picture is even rarer. and if you are looking for specific kinds of sharks you can basically forget it. who has seen a great white, a tiger, a mako, a blue without baiting?

This was Longimanus. We dive with them all the time and they get really close and anyone with a under water camera has a good chance to get a great shot. They are never aggressive towards divers. To get up close and ersonal with a Longimanus is not rare at all…

Egypt's Chamber of Diving and Water Sports (CDWS) can confirm that a woman died followed an attack from a shark which occurred on the morning of Monday 1 June at St Johns Reef in the southern Red Sea.

This is the press release from CDWS:

The French woman had been on a diving safari holiday on board the boat Lanotel when the incident took place. A number of boats were moored at a reef. A group of about 20 snorkellers was observing what is thought to be an oceanic white tip shark approximately 2.5 - 3m long The woman is reported to have moved away from the group and some distance from the reef then ducked dive down towards the shark. On surfacing she was bitten on the leg and was still in contact with the shark as she was pulled onto the boat. Once on the boat, the casualty lost consciousness and died soon after.

The boat returned to the Port of Hamata, where other members of the group were interviewed by police and statements were taken.

Initial investigations revealed last week that two safari boats had been involved in feeding sharks in this area. Investigations by both the National Park and CDWS are already underway and if the allegations are found to be true, the boat operators will face severe penalties that may involve suspension from operating and heavy fines. Shark feeding is a serious violation of Red Sea rules, and an act that can severely disturb the sensitive marine eco-system and behaviour of marine animals.

My heart goes out to the family of the victim.

…….a…….

[Knuspar]

replace "are" with "used to be". I venture to guess that most divers have never seen one (I am not counting nurse sharks). outside of the bahamas you are lucky diver if you see a shark in the carribbean. it happens but it is very rare in most places. to get a good look or even a picture is even rarer. and if you are looking for specific kinds of sharks you can basically forget it. who has seen a great white, a tiger, a mako, a blue without baiting?

In short, theres a huge decline in numbers of sharks .. ( personally I blame the japaneese for paying so well for the fins ! )


I am pretty sure that nobody aside from a true documentarian or marine biologist needs to see a white, tiger, or mako up close. And no, the shutter bugs at wetpixel don't count as documentarians.

For everyone else, there is discovery channel.

Youre somewhat right, there are "thrill seekers" in the water as well as in the air. Personally, I would love to experience it, but i most likely wont. I just went to Roatan, Honduras despite the shark dive, im presuming you cant really see any sharks there, but i refuse to take part in baiting of the creatures, so i dident go.


Was the species identified? I am thinking Oceanic Whitetip.

Most likely, so the below post says =)


Nope it was not. There is a law in Egypt against feeding and still there are some Å®acho Dive Guides that canÃÕ stop with this idiocy. I think that every single person that has at one point or another been involved in feeding the Longimanus in the Red Sea should now feel that they have part in the cause of this tragedy.

This was Longimanus. We dive with them all the time and they get really close and anyone with a under water camera has a good chance to get a great shot. They are never aggressive towards divers. To get up close and ersonal with a Longimanus is not rare at all

Egypt's Chamber of Diving and Water Sports (CDWS) can confirm that a woman died followed an attack from a shark which occurred on the morning of Monday 1 June at St Johns Reef in the southern Red Sea.

This is the press release from CDWS:

The French woman had been on a diving safari holiday on board the boat Lanotel when the incident took place. A number of boats were moored at a reef. A group of about 20 snorkellers was observing what is thought to be an oceanic white tip shark approximately 2.5 - 3m long The woman is reported to have moved away from the group and some distance from the reef then ducked dive down towards the shark. On surfacing she was bitten on the leg and was still in contact with the shark as she was pulled onto the boat. Once on the boat, the casualty lost consciousness and died soon after.

The boat returned to the Port of Hamata, where other members of the group were interviewed by police and statements were taken.

Initial investigations revealed last week that two safari boats had been involved in feeding sharks in this area. Investigations by both the National Park and CDWS are already underway and if the allegations are found to be true, the boat operators will face severe penalties that may involve suspension from operating and heavy fines. Shark feeding is a serious violation of Red Sea rules, and an act that can severely disturb the sensitive marine eco-system and behaviour of marine animals.

My heart goes out to the family of the victim.

©å.a©å.
Thank you for the update :)

[Air One]

Initial investigations revealed last week that two safari boats had been involved in feeding sharks in this area. Investigations by both the National Park and CDWS are already underway and if the allegations are found to be true, the boat operators will face severe penalties that may involve suspension from operating and heavy fines. Shark feeding is a serious violation of Red Sea rules, and an act that can severely disturb the sensitive marine eco-system and behaviour of marine animals.


Thanks for the update.
Shark feeding is forbidden in Egypt, that's a fact.
Another fact is that during years and years, the diving boat's crew were feeding the longimanus. I've seen myself these guys throwing chickens or bins out into the sea trying to attract the sharks, I saw it in 2 places : the Brothers Islands and Elfinstone, it was 5 years ago.
Would you say that they don't do it anymore, I mean that the 2 boats you're talking about are exceptions ?

[InTheDrink]

The French woman had been on a diving safari holiday on board the boat Lanotel when the incident took place...

Initial investigations revealed last week that two safari boats had been involved in feeding sharks in this area. Investigations by both the National Park and CDWS are already underway and if the allegations are found to be true, the boat operators will face severe penalties that may involve suspension from operating and heavy fines...

Do we know what operation the Lanotel is from? I'm diving out of Marsa Alam next week so keen to find out whether any boats/operations likely to be suspended.

Condolences to the victim's family/friends. Been a bad week for the French.

[samaka]

Thanks for the update.
Shark feeding is forbidden in Egypt, that's a fact.
Another fact is that during years and years, the diving boat's crew were feeding the longimanus. I've seen myself these guys throwing chickens or bins out into the sea trying to attract the sharks, I saw it in 2 places : the Brothers Islands and Elfinstone, it was 5 years ago.
Would you say that they don't do it anymore, I mean that the 2 boats you're talking about are exceptions ?

Well there are a few things to consider here. Organic waste such as leftovers from meals is allowed to dump at sea for the obvious reason that if you would keep it aboard during a week long safari in the Egyptian heat the guests would probably go swimming back to shore... There is just no way to store that stuff for that long time. However, that's supposed to be done while sailing and not when moored up, especially not at places where you have Longimanus circling the boats.

I'm sure that it still happens that crew chuck bits and pieces in now and then but to be fair, all dive operators with some self respect train their crew in these matters. On the boats I've been working the crew has been the first ones to react if there has been shark feeding going on from other boats.

I think the main problem is when there's a new guide on the boat who either doesn't know or doesn't care. Or even worse; the guides who knows but want's to play macho.

.......a.......

[The Yellow Elf]

Do not jump to conclusions. Nowhere is stated that she was feeding the Longimanus herself so a direct link with the accident seems pure speculation.

5 months ago I was diving with the Oceanic whitetips at Elphinstone/Marsa Shagra.
Someone in our group unfortunately got bitten in both hands by a female, when pushing the longimanus away.
Getting bitten after pushing the shark on the snout makes sense doesn't it.
Or was there a relationship with the fact that people from a liveaboard had been throwing food in the water that morning?
Just like with human beings, we do nut fully understand shark behaviour, let alone the changes in behaviour because of human-shark interaction.

Let's hope that this extremely rare and tragic incident does not result in a large scale shark killing spree. Something that happens often by frustrated bystanders or (some) locals who are afraid of diminishing tourist dollars. No live without a healthy see, No healthy see without sharks.

[The Yellow Elf]

seA that is...

[diver 85]

seA that is...

that's what the bottom right "EDIT" word is for--------try it, you'll like it......

[Splujer29]

Here is a message on the french forum PLONGEUR.COM Forums plongñÆ Plongeur.com, la passion de la plongee sous-marine (http://www.plongeur.com/forums/) :
Forums plongñÆ Plongeur.com - Afficher un message - touriste franíÂise dñÄñÅñÆ suite une attaque de requin (http://www.plongeur.com/forums/showpost.php?p=798986&postcount=56)

ci dessous un message du Nautile.

Bonjour toutes et tous,
Suite aux informations que vous avez pu lire ou entendre concernant lÃÂccident dÃÖne touriste franíÂise en mer Rouge, nous vous informons que cette plongeuse faisait partie dÃÖn groupe de plongeurs franíÂis bord du nautile cette semaine.

Nous faisions une croisiïÓe St JohnÃÔ et lÃÂccident est survenu hors plongñÆ, lors dÃÖne activit palmes, masque et tuba.

Contrairement aux informations donnñÆs par les mñÅias, il nÃÚ a pas eu dÃÆxcitation ou de nourrissage du requin par les nageurs.

Nous vous remercions pour tous vos messages qui nous touchent.

A bient?

[samaka]

Do not jump to conclusions. Nowhere is stated that she was feeding the Longimanus herself so a direct link with the accident seems pure speculation.

You don't have to worry about me jumping to conclusions or speculate mate.;) I'm trying to straight the question marks out. No one said she was feeding the sharks but that doesn't mean that shark feeding is not a part of the problem and part of the reason it happened. But to snorkel with Longimanus is never risk-free.


5 months ago I was diving with the Oceanic whitetips at Elphinstone/Marsa Shagra.
Someone in our group unfortunately got bitten in both hands by a female, when pushing the longimanus away.
Getting bitten after pushing the shark on the snout makes sense doesn't it.

Not necessarily, a gentle push on the snout is normally a rather effective and low-risk way to make a too inquisitive Longimanus go away. You shouldn't stick your fingers into its mouth though.


Or was there a relationship with the fact that people from a liveaboard had been throwing food in the water that morning?

Yes


Just like with human beings, we do nut fully understand shark behaviour, let alone the changes in behaviour because of human-shark interaction.

Exactly mate. This is the thing. The shark does not know what we are. We've been intruding in their home only for half a century while the shark has evolved for millions of years to become what it is today.


Let's hope that this extremely rare and tragic incident does not result in a large scale shark killing spree. Something that happens often by frustrated bystanders or (some) locals who are afraid of diminishing tourist dollars. No live without a healthy see, No healthy see without sharks.

Strangely enough, yesterday the long lobbying by Hurghada Environmental Protection and Conversation Association (HEPCA) resulted in the Egyptian government signing a new law making the Egyptian Red Sea a fishing free zone. There has been a problem fighting shark fishing (which has been illegal in Egypt for some time now) because there has been legal fishing for other species going on. Now when no fishing boats are allowed anymore it's obviously more difficult to fish for sharks disguised as legal fishermen. All trade with shark products is forbidden in Egypt and they are pretty serious about it. I, like you hope this does not result in a large scale shark killing spree. I also think it's unlikely.

.......a.......

[vladimir]

In short, theres a huge decline in numbers of sharks .. ( personally I blame the japaneese for paying so well for the fins ! )It's the Chinese that eat shark's fin soup.

[lemon]

I am pretty sure that nobody aside from a true documentarian or marine biologist needs to see a white, tiger, or mako up close. And no, the shutter bugs at wetpixel don't count as documentarians.

For everyone else, there is discovery channel.

Nobody NEEDS to see any fish in the sea on a recreational basis. We don't need to do a lot of things. However, if Joe Blow wants to dive with tigers, whites, or what have you, it's OK by me. As long as they're not hurting the sharks and they know the risks, well, have at it. Who am I to say what someone can and cannot do (within reason, of course).

On the other hand, I do see the arguments against feeding sharks, however, while I personally would rather see a shark in its natural non-hand-fed state, I can't say i'm opposed to shark feeds per se.... I am open to convincing though!

[lemon]

It's the Chinese that eat shark's fin soup.

I believe the japanese do as well.

[vladimir]

If the Japanese eat shark's fin soup, they do it in Chinese restaurants.

[Azotino]

Jumping in a mine field.......

[openmindOW]

I am seeking some clarification. Can anyone anser teh follwoing questions:
1) It is my understanding that a certifiefd diver left a dive boat and entered the water to see a fish. This person was bitten by a shark. Is that correct?

2) If so, was she wearing a mask?

3) I so, was she wearing a SCUBA unit?

4) If so, did she descend or did she stay on the surface?

[Splujer29]

Look at this blog. It's written in french, but you can translate in english : chercheurs d'eau : le blog (http://chercheursdeau.blogspot.com/)
Translated in english with Google translate : Google Traduction (http://translate.google.com/translate?prev=hp&hl=fr&js=n&u=http%3A%2F%2Fchercheursdeau.blogspot.com%2F&sl=fr&tl=en&history_state0=&swap=1)

A DECEASED FRENCH IN EGYPT,
AFTER THE ATTACK OF A SHARK

Monday 1st June 2009, a group of tourists on board the "Nautilus" in the Red Sea for a cruise diving St John's marketed by the tour Aquarev, was surprised by the attack of a shark ocean. One member of this group died after the bite of the animal.

Yves Tiquet, President of the diving club parisien affected by this tragedy, explains: "Our colleague, aged about fifty years, was bitten by a shark longimane.
She died following the rupture of the femoral artery, despite the rapid relief who were present. The nature of injuries (bleeding) has not allowed us to save.
We were approached by another group of swimmers whose five boats were moored near the Nautile and had obviously spotted something on the surface.
We were all equipped with flippers, mask and snorkel, it was not a dive bottle. In those circumstances, our friend, who was separated at the head of the group, was bitten. » "

Yves Tiquet present in the water at that time, pointed out that this accident has NOT been caused by the group of swimmers, "We have not harassed or fed animals we have made the once arrived on site. "
For information, the last fatal attack occurred in the Red Sea dates back to 2004 and on average a score of cases in the world. Shark attacks on humans are rare and exceptional 11% of unprovoked attacks were fatal (world statistics over the period 1990-2004).

Sahuquet Raymond, co-leader of Aquarev and author of several books about diving confirms having never faced such a tragedy after 37 years of career

[Knuspar]

It's the Chinese that eat shark's fin soup.
Not just the chinese, all of Asia do it actually.


I believe the japanese do as well.
Indeed


If the Japanese eat shark's fin soup, they do it in Chinese restaurants.

Thats possible, but then theres a lot of chinese places in all of asia. The main markets for sharkfins are hong kong, taiwan and singapore.

They are caught all over the world though =/

[RichnLenny]

thanks for an informative account samaka- one diver said earlier that they have never seen a shark, Im a novice when it comes to diving but i have seen sharks in every location Im beginning to feel very lucky! Im very aware we are in their enviroment, i wouldnt approach a shark, break its swimming line or corner it, they same way I wouldnt do it to a dog or a lion! as for feeding Im totally against it we dont want them identifying us with dinner! and lets remember theres more to diving than just sharks.... although they are beautiful,
i feel very sorry fot the diver and her family

[vladimir]

Not just the chinese, all of Asia do it actually.I would imagine there are Danes who eat shark's fin soup too. Attributing the demand for shark's fin to the Japanese is just plain wrong.

Wikipedia:


Shark fin soup (or shark's fin soup) is a Chinese delicacy that has been a popular item of Chinese cuisine since the Ming Dynasty[1], usually served at special occasions such as weddings and banquets.[2][3] As a luxury item, the dish is also considered a symbol of wealth and prestige in Chinese culture.[3]

Shark finning is required to make this soup, and the process has become highly controversial in recent years. Consumption of shark fin soup has risen dramatically with the middle class becoming more affluent.[4] Animal rights activists and environmentalists[5] have called the practice brutal[3], and it is also named as a primary contributing factor in the global decline of many shark species.[6]

China's growing economy has resulted in a large increase in demand for shark fins[2]; combined with the importance of this top predator in oceanic ecosystems, has exacerbated problems the practice perpetuates.[7]


Shark fin soup is a popular delicacy in China, and is eaten in Chinese restaurants around the world.


A third of all fins imported to Hong Kong come from Europe.[21] Spain is by far the largest supplier, providing between 2000 and 5000 metric tonnes a year.[22][23] Norway supplies 39 metric tonnes, but Britain, France, Portugal and Italy are also major suppliers.[24]

Hong Kong handles at least 50% and possibly up to 80% of the world trade in shark fin, with the major suppliers being Europe, Taiwan, Indonesia, Singapore, United Arab Emirates, United States, Yemen, India, Japan, and Mexico.[25]



Thats possible, but then theres a lot of chinese places in all of asia. Yes, there are a lot in NYC, too. And in Chicago. Probably in Denmark, too, but I've never been, so I don't know.


The main markets for sharkfins are hong kong, taiwan and singapore.Yes, I have lived in Singapore and currently reside in Hong Kong, and I can vouch for the prevalence of shark's fin soup in those cities. As I am sure you know, one thing that Hong Kong, Singapore, and Taiwan have in common is large populations of ethnic Chinese.


They are caught all over the world though =/Yes, but if Wikipedia is to be believed, more by Europe than Japan.

[AquaticApe]

Just as feeding any other wild animals is potentially dangerous for both the feeding and the fed.

Chris

[samaka]

I am seeking some clarification. Can anyone anser teh follwoing questions:
1) It is my understanding that a certifiefd diver left a dive boat and entered the water to see a fish. This person was bitten by a shark. Is that correct?

2) If so, was she wearing a mask?

3) I so, was she wearing a SCUBA unit?

4) If so, did she descend or did she stay on the surface?

Ok we go through these questions again then

1) Yes she was a certified diver. Yes she left the boat as she entered the water. Yes it was to see fish. Yes she was bitten by a shark.

2) Yes

3) No

4) She was snorkeling between dives to see the Longimanus, made a Duck dive down to the shark and as she resurfaced she was bitten.

.....a.....

Here is the official News Letter from Hurghada Environmental Protection and Conservation Association. HEPCA

HEPCA, and all its members from the Egyptian Red Sea would like to extend their deepest condolences to the family and friends of the French snorkeler killed by an Oceanic-White-Tip Shark (Carcharhinus longimanus) at the Saint Johns reefs this week. Contrary to rumour this was the only incident of recent shark fatality or injury to tourists in the Egyptian Red Sea. Further, HEPCA has not attributed blame of the fatality to the behaviour of the snorkeler who was killed. However HEPCA advises strongly that snorkelling in waters where this species is frequently encountered, such as the Far Islands and Saint Johns, is highly unadvisable.

Oceanic-White-Tip Sharks are large (maximum size 390 cm) predators rarely encountered because their main habitat is deep water well away from land. However, at certain times of the year this species aggregate at isolated islands, rocks and pinnacles in deep water in the Egyptian Red Sea. It is still unclear why they do this. Some scientists have suggested that they move seasonally close to islands for reproduction or feeding. Alternatively, because of their inquisitive nature, they might simply be attracted to boats and divers. Interactions between this species and SCUBA divers at some offshore dive sites in Egyptian waters are common at certain times of the year. Indeed, large numbers of divers travel to Egypt each year for the privilege of viewing this large species of shark. Although potentially dangerous, like most large wild animals, many thousands of divers have been safely introduced to this species without incident of injury. However certain activities can increase the risk of negative interactions with this and other species of shark. Foremost is the activity of divers feeding sharks with scrapes of food in order to attract them closer. Although shark feeding is legal in some well known dive destinations, such as the Caribbean, it is strictly forbidden under law in Egypt because of the very reason tragically witnessed this week.

The recent shark fatality is a great tragedy for all concerned and HEPCA wants to reassure visitors that every measure will be taken to reduce the risk of a similar incident occurring again. HEPCA, in conjunction with local industry,CDWS and government officials, are now formulating a strategy to help limit the risk of such an incident occurring again. In particular dive companies involved in the illegal activity of shark feeding will have their licences revoked. Although the risk of shark fatalities cannot be entirely stopped, the following activities will greatly minimise it:

- No swimming and snorkelling in waters where this and other large species of sharks are known to frequent
- No deliberate feeding of this species or the dumping of waste from boats which may attract this and other potentially dangerous sharks (both activities are illegal in Egyptian waters)
- No SCUBA diving without an experienced dive guide in waters where this species is known to frequent
- In areas such as the Far Islands, where this species is frequently observed, it is advisable that divers enter (and are retrieved from) the water as close as possible to the reef.
- In areas such as the Far Islands, where this species is frequently observed, it is illegal to be involved in any night diving activities.

....a....

[socaldiver]

replace "are" with "used to be". I venture to guess that most divers have never seen one (I am not counting nurse sharks). outside of the bahamas you are lucky diver if you see a shark in the carribbean. it happens but it is very rare in most places. to get a good look or even a picture is even rarer. and if you are looking for specific kinds of sharks you can basically forget it. who has seen a great white, a tiger, a mako, a blue without baiting?

Although your statement has a lot of merit, I guess I am one of the "lucky ones" in more than one instance.

I have seen blues, a mako up close and personal, a greatwhite from a distance- all offthe coast of Catalina. I have seen numerous white tips here off the coast of Maui and witnesses from shore a feeding frenzy of unidentifiable sharks in the surf of Ka'anapali Beach.

I too also wish people would quit jumping to conclusions without knowing the facts about events that occur.

[openmindOW]

Thank you, Samaka. So, it sounds like it is accurate to state that a female was bitten by a shark while snorkeling. Additionally, it sounds like it is accurate to say that she was not wearing Scuba gear, although she was a certified diver. I just sought clarification, because when one hears that a "diver" was bitten, one could get the impression that she was Scuba-diving at the time of the bite. Thank you again.

[roturner]

"This very rarely happens. It seems that the victim aggravated the shark or presented it with food, which caused a change in the shark's behaviour," MENA quoted Amr Ali, the president of the Society for the Preservation of the Red Sea Environment, as saying.


I'd like to know what REALLY happened. The shark preservation guy saying that it wasn't the shark's fault is logical but I ... well ... don't believe him at face value. Obviously they don't want to alarm divers and they don't want to stir up anti-shark sentiment....

I'd like to hear from witnesses.

R..

[roturner]

Nope it was not. There is a law in Egypt against feeding and still there are some Å®acho Dive Guides that canÃÕ stop with this idiocy. I think that every single person that has at one point or another been involved in feeding the Longimanus in the Red Sea should now feel that they have part in the cause of this tragedy.


I've never heard or seen of shark feeding dives near Marsa Alam. I'm not familiar with all of the sites but when we want to see big sharks we always go to Elphinstone where I can say it would be difficult or impossible to do anything like a shark-feeding dive. You're usually drifting in relatively stiff current and if I'm not mistaken the bottom there is well beyond the depth at which sport divers can dive.

R..

[InTheDrink]

I've never heard or seen of shark feeding dives near Marsa Alam. I'm not familiar with all of the sites but when we want to see big sharks we always go to Elphinstone where I can say it would be difficult or impossible to do anything like a shark-feeding dive. You're usually drifting in relatively stiff current and if I'm not mistaken the bottom there is well beyond the depth at which sport divers can dive.

R..

I'm not 100% sure of my facts here but my understanding is that it is food dumped in the water to attract them in the first place, rather than shark feeding a la bahamas. No doubt Samaka can clear up this point.

And in this instance the divers were snorkelling with the sharks rather than diving with them. This appears to be more risky than diving with them, certainly from what the press release from HEPCA says (as per Samaka's post).

Cheers,
J

[TheScubaBOB]

Didn't I read earlier in this thread that the Diver in question jumped off the boat and "freedived" a short distance to get to the same depth as the shallow swimming shark. There were snorkelers in the water watching the shark also?

Would it be unreasonable for a shark to be spooked by someone doing this and reacting my biting?

[InTheDrink]

Didn't I read earlier in this thread that the Diver in question jumped off the boat and "freedived" a short distance to get to the same depth as the shallow swimming shark. There were snorkelers in the water watching the shark also?

Would it be unreasonable for a shark to be spooked by someone doing this and reacting my biting?

I think the most accurate accounts we have at the moment are both Samaka's and the french translation, both of which agree. I'd work on that for the moment until and if fuller details are available.

People were snorkelling including the woman. She duck dived. She got bitten. There's nothing to suggest anything she did 'spooked' the shark and in fairness, from what I've read, Longimanus don't appear particularly well disposed to being spooked. They are quite inquisitive animals.

[TheScubaBOB]

I think the most accurate accounts we have at the moment are both Samaka's and the french translation, both of which agree. I'd work on that for the moment until and if fuller details are available.

People were snorkelling including the woman. She duck dived. She got bitten. There's nothing to suggest anything she did 'spooked' the shark and in fairness, from what I've read, Longimanus don't appear particularly well disposed to being spooked. They are quite inquisitive animals.

Ok, I didn't mean to imply that she provoked the attack. I'm not familiar with Oceanic White Tips except for the USS Indianapolis incident.

Thanks for responding to my question.

[MMM]

replace "are" with "used to be". I venture to guess that most divers have never seen one (I am not counting nurse sharks). outside of the bahamas you are lucky diver if you see a shark in the carribbean. it happens but it is very rare in most places. to get a good look or even a picture is even rarer. and if you are looking for specific kinds of sharks you can basically forget it. who has seen a great white, a tiger, a mako, a blue without baiting?

I have seen on morethan a few occasions. Bull sharks can found off Playa del Carmen and white tips in Cozumel at Punta Sur. They say there is the occasional hammerhead in Cozumel but the only place I've seen them is on the Baja. No baiting on any of those dives.

[vladimir]

replace "are" with "used to be". I venture to guess that most divers have never seen one (I am not counting nurse sharks). outside of the bahamas you are lucky diver if you see a shark in the carribbean. it happens but it is very rare in most places. to get a good look or even a picture is even rarer. and if you are looking for specific kinds of sharks you can basically forget it. who has seen a great white, a tiger, a mako, a blue without baiting?


I have seen on morethan a few occasions. Bull sharks can found off Playa del Carmen and white tips in Cozumel at Punta Sur. They say there is the occasional hammerhead in Cozumel but the only place I've seen them is on the Baja. No baiting on any of those dives.Yes, bull sharks are common in some places. Whitetip reef sharks are common in a lot of places; with the exception of nurse sharks, I'd guess they are the shark most commonly seen by divers. Neither of these species, nor hammerheads, are on docmartin's list of species rarely seen without baiting. I have seen a tiger shark without baiting, and the other three are more commonly found in water colder than the water I dive in, but without a doubt encounters with those species are rare in the absence of baiting. And encounters with even the more common species are still pretty uncommon in the Caribbean.

[DiveMonkeys]

Yes, bull sharks are common in some places. Whitetip reef sharks are common in a lot of places; with the exception of nurse sharks, I'd guess they are the shark most commonly seen by divers. Neither of these species, nor hammerheads, are on docmartin's list of species rarely seen without baiting. I have seen a tiger shark without baiting, and the other three are more commonly found in water colder than the water I dive in, but without a doubt encounters with those species are rare in the absence of baiting. And encounters with even the more common species are still pretty uncommon in the Caribbean.

At the risk of minor thread-jacking... We've seen hammerhead and grey reefs at Little Cayman, and grey reefs on almost every dive at Grand Cayman all without baiting. In the Red Sea we've seen hammerheads and a thresher without baiting.

[samaka]

I'd like to know what REALLY happened. The shark preservation guy saying that it wasn't the shark's fault is logical but I ... well ... don't believe him at face value. Obviously they don't want to alarm divers and they don't want to stir up anti-shark sentiment....

I'd like to hear from witnesses.

R..

You can trust Amr Ali mate. I don't think it's likely that eye witnesses will appear on SB for detailed reports. We are a few people living and working here that try to tell the correct story. If you check out who is saying what here on the forum you can figure out who's got the correct information.


I've never heard or seen of shark feeding dives near Marsa Alam. I'm not familiar with all of the sites but when we want to see big sharks we always go to Elphinstone where I can say it would be difficult or impossible to do anything like a shark-feeding dive. You're usually drifting in relatively stiff current and if I'm not mistaken the bottom there is well beyond the depth at which sport divers can dive.

R..

As I've written earlier in the thread (a few times) shark feeding is illegal in Egypt so there are no organized Shark Feeding Excursions in the Red Sea. However, as I've also written earlier in the thread (a few times) there are idiots trying to play Tarzan and being macho dive guides who are chucking food in the water to attract sharks. I've heard some saying that they even bring chicken with them down on dives feeding the sharks in front of the guests. If I had seen it with my own eyes I would have reported them even if they are mates of mine, and so I've told them.

Elphinstone as a reef would be topographically be close yo ideal for the traditional way of shark feeding. Normally the Longimanus hang in the area around the south plateau and there is a sandy bottom at a depth of around 16-20 metres close to the main reef. Thank God that's not allowed.

This incident occured in the St. John's area though, far from Marsa Alam, south of Ras Banas. There you have loads of dive sites that would be perfect for the traditional shark feeding dives. Again... Thank God that's not allowed.


Didn't I read earlier in this thread that the Diver in question jumped off the boat and "freedived" a short distance to get to the same depth as the shallow swimming shark. There were snorkelers in the water watching the shark also?

Would it be unreasonable for a shark to be spooked by someone doing this and reacting my biting?

What you read earlier in the thread was some one speculating... As I've written earlier in the thread (a few times) the woman was snorkeling, duck dived down and was bitten as she resurfaced.

Listen to the people who live and work in the area. We are familiar with the dive sites and we know what's going on. I have a job that I have to do and I really do not have unlimited time to hang on SB but I do as much as I can just to be prepared when idiots write stupid things. Someone's got to deliver the right information...

...a...

[vladimir]

At the risk of minor thread-jacking... We've seen hammerhead and grey reefs at Little Cayman, and grey reefs on almost every dive at Grand Cayman all without baiting. In the Red Sea we've seen hammerheads and a thresher without baiting.I have also seen gray reef sharks at Little Cayman and Belize on multiple dives. I have seen a hammerhead at the Elbow in Belize, too. But I have about 20 dives in Little Cayman and over 60 in Belize. If the oceans were in a pristine state we'd be seeing sharks on every dive; now we are thrilled about a sighting every ten or twenty dives. I have seen hundreds of sharks and three or four species in one dive at Cocos. But you have to get to Cocos for that. I have seen 25 to 50 grays on a dive in Palau. But you have to fly to Palau for that. I have had a hammerhead come within petting distance in Papua New Guinea. That's why people fly the twenty four hours.

So, yes, I agree that the oceans are not totally bereft of sharks. Neither I nor docmartin was contending that you have to bait to see a shark. What docmartin said, and what I agreed with, was that you probably have to bait to see great whites, makos, tigers, or blues. None of the sharks you've seen are on that list. I then added that shark encounters in general were pretty uncommon--as opposed to non-existent--in the Caribbean, in the absence of baiting. The Red Sea is not in the Caribbean. To be more precise, I would characterize "pretty uncommon" as a 1 in 10 chance on the average Caribbean dive, meaning if you had 20 dives in Bonaire, 20 in Little Cayman, 20 in Cozumel, 20 in Belize, and 20 in the British Virgin Islands, you've probably had 10 shark encounters. That is a rough guess based on my Caribbean experience, without counting non-dive destinations like Jamaica or Puerto Rico, where encountering any fish at all seems to be rare.

[jwc3]

The shark does not know what we are. We've been intruding in their home only for half a century while the shark has evolved for millions of years to become what it is today.

Actually, people have been swimming in the ocean for a lot longer than 50 years. We humans may be new relative to the shark -- we've been around for about 200,000 years, sharks for about 450 million years -- but our ancestors have spent many of those 200,000 years searching the seas for food. More recently, the Greeks were freediving for sponges about 2,500 years ago. Sharks are smarter than many think (their brain mass to body mass ratio is similar to mammals) and they probably realize that we are not fish.

[InTheDrink]

We seem to have gotten off the point somewhat.

I think Samaka has provided excellent information as close to first hand as is possible.

If any more information comes to light that would be great, particularly if there was anything the guest did that could have contributed to her being bitten (duck diving? being alone or near the head of the group? snorkelling as opposed to diving?).

J

[jwc3]

Here's a short video about the Oceanic Whitetip Shark, in case you're not familiar with it:

YouTube - Oceanic whitetip shark (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sbotA-NJVJA)

[samaka]

Actually, people have been swimming in the ocean for a lot longer than 50 years. We humans may be new relative to the shark -- we've been around for about 200,000 years, sharks for about 450 million years -- but our ancestors have spent many of those 200,000 years searching the seas for food. More recently, the Greeks were freediving for sponges about 2,500 years ago. Sharks are smarter than many think (their brain mass to body mass ratio is similar to mammals) and they probably realize that we are not fish.

Hey touché! You’ve got a fair point there ;o)
I should clarify. What I meant was that we as a temporarily permanent underwater life form, scuba divers are something fairly new to the shark whereas “free divers” obviously have been around for quite a while.


We seem to have gotten off the point somewhat.

I think Samaka has provided excellent information as close to first hand as is possible.

If any more information comes to light that would be great, particularly if there was anything the guest did that could have contributed to her being bitten (duck diving? being alone or near the head of the group? snorkelling as opposed to diving?).

J

With duck dive I mean that she was snorkelling on the surface and then free dived (like a duck, head down and feet up) a few metres to get closer to the shark at the depth where the shark was cruising and then ascended back to the surface. We call that “duck dive” some times maybe I should have written free dived.

…….a…….

[enano315]

My prayers go out to the lady.Tragic circumstance.Let's not be too quick to judge.It could happen to any of us.Sharks are amazing creatures and deserve respect and a wide careful boundry.I have been in the water with tigers,hammers,reefs,etc. and consider myself lucky so far.Any movements or actions sudden or aggresive can easily be interpreted as a threat or trigger a prey/predator response.Then there is the the old addage:**** happens.It's a hard way to die for any diver.Again condolences to the family.

[boulderjohn]

Just to clarify for those who are not familiar with shark names, there is a huge difference between the oceanic white tip in this incident and the white tip reef shark commonly seen in the Caribbean and other parts of the world. White tip reef sharks are pretty much harmless. Oceanic white tips, as this story indicates, are much more worthy of concern.

[reefman]

Just to clarify for those who are not familiar with shark names, there is a huge difference between the oceanic white tip in this incident and the white tip reef shark commonly seen in the Caribbean and other parts of the world. White tip reef sharks are pretty much harmless. Oceanic white tips, as this story indicates, are much more worthy of concern.

as a reference, whitetip reef sharks are not indigenous or have been reported in the atlantic or carribean seas. they are native only in the indian and pacific oceans,,,,,,,,,,,,

reefman
key largo

[longipalmus]

This is how the trade goes for a French live-aboard operator in the red sea
YouTube - PlongñÆ Requin de nuit elphinstone Egypte-Night shark dive elphinstone reef Egypt (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OxIXznhJQfQ)
Joomeo - Photo sharing / Partage de photos (http://joomeo.fr/showcase.php?id=45019a08951cc8f99e6a168b1782c443&ps=3&sc=1&fs=1&type=0&color=000000)

[samaka]

Here is what HEPCA is telling everybody working as guides in Egyptian Red Sea. For most of us this is just common sense but believe it or not some has to be told...

.......a.......

Open Letter from HEPCA To all Dive Guides in the Egyptian Red Sea

Most of you are aware of the death of the snorkeler at St. Johns by an Oceanic WhiteTip Shark (Carcharhinus longimanus) earlier this month. The death was especially tragic because it could have been avoided if guests had been stopped from snorkelling. Allowing guests to snorkel at St. Johns and other Far Islands, especially when C. longimanus is presence, is highly unprofessional. Not only does it place guests at risk of injury, but such unprofessional action gives the whole Egyptian Red Sea dive industry a bad reputation. Since the death of the snorkeler, dive guides have reported to HEPCA that some C. longimanus at the Far Islands are displaying overly inquisitive or even aggressive behaviour towards them while diving. This included sharks near the surface moving rapidly towards divers at 30 m. Others have reported being bumped, tanks nudged and sharks swimming extremely close to them and their guests. There may be a number of reasons why these animals are behaving this way. It could be due to the illegal actions of some divers who have been feeding them in these areas or boat crews baiting them. Alternatively, or in combination with, it may be due to natural seasonal causes relating to reproduction or the presence of natural prey. Whatever the reason(s), we urge guides to be especially vigilant when diving in areas where C. longimanus is commonly encountered. In light of this recent information, we have expanded our earlier list of recommendations when taking guests to areas where this species is commonly encountered. The earlier and new recommendations are:
• No swimming and snorkelling in waters where this and other large species of sharks are known to frequent
• No deliberate feeding of this species or the dumping of waste from boats which may attract this and other potentially dangerous sharks (both activities are illegal in Egyptian waters)
• No SCUBA diving without an experienced dive guide in waters where this species is known to frequent
• In areas such as the Far Islands, where this species is frequently observed, it is advisable that divers enter (and are retrieved from) the water as close as possible to the reef.
• In areas such as the Far Islands it is illegal to be involved in any night diving activities.
• Dive in groups and keep close together.
• Two dive guides should accompany each group.
• Divers should leave the water immediately if sharks display signs of aggression such as nudging or circling divers, or moving rapidly towards them.
• Report to HEPCA any incidents of aggressive behaviour by these animals towards divers, and
• Report to HEPCA the names of vessels whose divers or crew are observed feeding or baiting sharks.
Until recently, the Egypt Red Sea diving industry had an impressive track record of safely introducing divers to one of the largest and wide-ranging predators on the planet. With your help we would like to rebuild that record. For more information of this species in the Egyptian Red Sea go to: http://www.longimanus.info/species-info.htm

HEPCA

[Geoff_H]

I believe the japanese do as well.

Not really. As vladimir says it is served in Chinese restaurants - I've never seen sharks fin soup in a Japanese one.

[Knuspar]

Not really. As vladimir says it is served in Chinese restaurants - I've never seen sharks fin soup in a Japanese one.

All of asia eat sharkfin soup .. most of the places its more or less "just" a soup .. its in chinese resturants that shark fin soup is a delicate dish as in expensive and shows some kind of status.

Ignorance is bliss !

Shark polulation have declied at least 75% during the past 10 years .. so who cares where they eat the damned soup ..

Leave the sharks alone .. or perish us all eventually!

[vladimir]

All of asia eat sharkfin soup You keep declaring that this is true. Could you perhaps cite some evidence? A Wikipedia entry? A menu from a Kyrgyz restaurant with shark's fin on it? I would be happy to adjust my opinion in the face of new evidence. Anything besides you stamping your foot and declaring that it is true would be a step in the right direction.

The fact is, shark's fin soup is overwhelmingly consumed by ethnic Chinese in Hong Kong, Singapore, Taiwan, and China. Yes, it is consumed in Japan, and maybe even in Kyrgyzstan, but not in amounts that are substantial in comparison to the consumption in those predominantly Chinese countries. It is a Chinese tradition and a problem caused by the ignorance of ethnic Chinese diners.

I share your enthusiasm for shark conservation, but the cause is not served by misinformation.

Decimating Shark Population for Some Soup - ABC News (http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/story?id=2616156&page=1)


The fins are sold primarily to China for shark fin soup

Fins for sale - Environment - The Independent (http://www.independent.co.uk/environment/fins-for-sale-405409.html)


Shark's fin is now the star ingredient in some of Britain's top Chinese restaurants.

Taipei Times - archives (http://www.taipeitimes.com/News/editorials/archives/2006/09/03/2003325993)


However, the media snub in China -- and in Hong Kong, where some 80 percent of all shark fin is consumed -- suggested the campaign will face some tough resistance in the world's most populous country.

[Knuspar]

You keep declaring that this is true. Could you perhaps cite some evidence? A Wikipedia entry? A menu from a Kyrgyz restaurant with shark's fin on it? I would be happy to adjust my opinion in the face of new evidence. Anything besides you stamping your foot and declaring that it is true would be a step in the right direction.

The fact is, shark's fin soup is overwhelmingly consumed by ethnic Chinese in Hong Kong, Singapore, Taiwan, and China. Yes, it is consumed in Japan, and maybe even in Kyrgyzstan, but not in amounts that are substantial in comparison to the consumption in those predominantly Chinese countries. It is a Chinese tradition and a problem caused by the ignorance of ethnic Chinese diners.

I share your enthusiasm for shark conservation, but the cause is not served by misinformation.

You need a wikipedia link for it to be true? Wikipedia can be edited by every guy on the planet ( aside scientology folks .. hehe ).

I have personally seen it served in lots of places in Thailand. Unfortunatly i know several people in my own family who have tasted the soup.

I know for a fact its eaten in Indonesia and its also served in Manila in the Philippines as well i have from a close friend.

Outside europe, in the Mediterranean it has been served on Malta as well, i know because my parents told me the tasted it a few years back.

I am glad we agree on the sharks being important. But its not just the Chinese to blame, its every single guy/girl who ever tasted it IMO.

[Geoff_H]

All of asia eat sharkfin soup .. most of the places its more or less "just" a soup .. its in chinese resturants that shark fin soup is a delicate dish as in expensive and shows some kind of status.

Ignorance is bliss !

Yes, your ignorance must be blissful.

I would avoid trying to smear entire nations with your misguided views though.

[Dadvocate]

I live in China, and it seems that for many northern Chinese this soup is not really all that popular. Apparently it is more of a delicacy in the southern parts of the country. I don’t know if looking at where shark fin soup is served is really the correct way to isolate the problem and assign blame. I think China does deserve the blame for the desimation of sharks because the practice of finning springs from its culture, even if the the actual fishing takes place eslewhere or even if others partake in the soup as a one off.

The odds are the restuarants serving shark fin soup in the places you mention are catering to Chinese travelers anyway. And more than likely a bowl of this soup in Indonesia for example represents only a small portion of the sharks killed for their fins which are sent to China everyday. It is served all over the place in some parts of China.

The fact remains that the proliferation of finning practices has grown right along with the growing middle class in China, which has the unfortunate side effect of hearkening in people an archaic need to show prosperity in modern times using some ridiculous throwback to the emperors of yore. And unfortunately from my experience so far, things change very, very slowly in China, too slowly to hope that sharks can outlast the trend.

All of the finning practices that take place in South America, Indonesia, Malaysia, and elsewhere happen as a direct result of the demand coming out of my host country which springs from this growing middle class. Taiwan seems to be a major driving force as well. And it isn’t enough to simply not eat the soup in my opinion. If you see it on offer in an establishment somewhere, please tell the waiter or the owner that you think it is a terrible practice and leave. That is what I forced my soon to be in-laws to do when I saw shark fin soup on the menu in Langkawi on my last holiday. The waiter wasn’t too happy, which I hope translates into a change in practice if more people do the same.

Cheers!

[Geoff_H]

I have personally seen it served in lots of places in Thailand. Unfortunatly i know several people in my own family who have tasted the soup.

I know for a fact its eaten in Indonesia and its also served in Manila in the Philippines as well i have from a close friend.

It's served in Denmark too - shall we smear Danes?

Some of us have lived and worked in a lot of the countries you name, and you're just talking the most incredible rubbish. Do you really think most people in Thailand and Philippines can afford to eat shark fin soup? Sure - it might be served in a few high end Chinese restaurants in those countries but then again we could eat it in America and every European country too.

[vladimir]

You need a wikipedia link for it to be true? I used Wikipedia as an example of a minimum of evidence, which you have yet to meet. If you have a peer-reviewed study you can cite, that would be great.

[Dadvocate]

There is also another issue related to where shark fin soup is being served. If, for example, shark fin soup is being served in the USA, who is to say that the whole shark wasn’t caught and used and not just the fins?

This consideration is an important one, I’d say, because the soup is then the product of a much more reasonable fishing practice. The wastefulness of the finning practices happening today is tied to the fact that only the fins are being used, with the rest of the animal being tossed back into the sea. This practice can be traced to China, probably southern China.

I shop at a midsized grocery store here in Tianjin, and on occasion a whole shark is sold; it is cut into pieces and displayed on ice for people to buy. Yes, the fins are on offer as well as the rest of the animal. Though I will never eat shark fin soup, I can at least acknowledge that this form of fishing is far superior to the wasteful and disgraceful kind that is taking place in far too many locations these days. It also shows that shark fin soup is not necessarily a China-wide issue.

And one last aside. The Philippines has a great number of once Chinese nationals who are now very affluent Pinoys. If there is shark fin soup on offer, more than likely it is to cater to their desires. I doubt seriously that a starving people would waste their time eating something of little nutritional value. A whole shark, maybe, but not the fins in a soup. I’ve yet to see shark fin adobo.

Cheers!

[Knuspar]

Yes, your ignorance must be blissful.

I would avoid trying to smear entire nations with your misguided views though.
That actually made me laugh .. vladimir said its chineese .. so he smears one country .. im just saying dont blame them alone, sure they might have "invented" it or whatever .. but they are not the only ones doing it.



I live in China, and it seems that for many northern Chinese this soup is not really all that popular. Apparently it is more of a delicacy in the southern parts of the country. I donÃÕ know if looking at where shark fin soup is served is really the correct way to isolate the problem and assign blame. I think China does deserve the blame for the desimation of sharks because the practice of finning springs from its culture, even if the the actual fishing takes place eslewhere or even if others partake in the soup as a one off.

The odds are the restuarants serving shark fin soup in the places you mention are catering to Chinese travelers anyway. And more than likely a bowl of this soup in Indonesia for example represents only a small portion of the sharks killed for their fins which are sent to China everyday. It is served all over the place in some parts of China.

The fact remains that the proliferation of finning practices has grown right along with the growing middle class in China, which has the unfortunate side effect of hearkening in people an archaic need to show prosperity in modern times using some ridiculous throwback to the emperors of yore. And unfortunately from my experience so far, things change very, very slowly in China, too slowly to hope that sharks can outlast the trend.

All of the finning practices that take place in South America, Indonesia, Malaysia, and elsewhere happen as a direct result of the demand coming out of my host country which springs from this growing middle class. Taiwan seems to be a major driving force as well. And it isnÃÕ enough to simply not eat the soup in my opinion. If you see it on offer in an establishment somewhere, please tell the waiter or the owner that you think it is a terrible practice and leave. That is what I forced my soon to be in-laws to do when I saw shark fin soup on the menu in Langkawi on my last holiday. The waiter wasnÃÕ too happy, which I hope translates into a change in practice if more people do the same.

Cheers!

Interesting reading, and i appreciate your approach by telling them to stop serving it. Personally i just walk straight by if i ever see shark on the menu.
Thanks for sharing the info.


It's served in Denmark too - shall we smear Danes?

Some of us have lived and worked in a lot of the countries you name, and you're just talking the most incredible rubbish. Do you really think most people in Thailand and Philippines can afford to eat shark fin soup? Sure - it might be served in a few high end Chinese restaurants in those countries but then again we could eat it in America and every European country too.

Smear away .. I am not pointing out nations as yourself .. I am saying the individuals who contribute to create the demand for shark fins are the ones to blame.

The fact that you somehow read my posts as an attack on some countries is just downright sad and wrong.

It does not make it right if its a dane, american, chinesse or japanese or whatever that eats shark fin soup .. all who do contribute to the demise of sharks, which im pretty sure we all agree on is wrong?


I used Wikipedia as an example of a minimum of evidence, which you have yet to meet. If you have a peer-reviewed study you can cite, that would be great.

I don't have any reviewed study .. im just a ordinary guy whos concerned about anything related to nature. Just like 99% of the rest of scubaboards.com's users.

Still claiming its only Chinese eating sharkfin soup is wrong.

I dont intend to write more in this thread, seems as if some individuals just want to misinterpret what i write ...

the short point is: sad about the french diver who died, shame on all people who run around feeding the sharks for whatever reason they have, and double shame on the people who catch sharks 1. for the fun of it, 2. for their fins .. well .. in total .. shame on all who hurt the oceans in one way or another!

No blue - No green (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=43DuLcBFxoY&fmt=18)

[lemon]

It's served in Denmark too - shall we smear Danes?

Some of us have lived and worked in a lot of the countries you name, and you're just talking the most incredible rubbish. Do you really think most people in Thailand and Philippines can afford to eat shark fin soup? Sure - it might be served in a few high end Chinese restaurants in those countries but then again we could eat it in America and every European country too.

I don't think its a smear. That said, I think we're missing the point. The Japanese are certainly killing a lot of sharks in their shark fishing industry. Of course, it's not just shark. The sushi industry, of which japan is a big part, is putting a lot of pressure on all variety of fishery stocks. It's driving some species to the brink of collapse - i.e. bluefin tuna,etc.

[Dadvocate]

Knuspar
Interesting reading, and i appreciate your approach by telling them to stop serving it. Personally i just walk straight by if i ever see shark on the menu.
Thanks for sharing the info.

Yes, but you can’t always know this from the front of the restaurant. In this particular case, we had to be seated to see the menu.


That actually made me laugh .. vladimir said its chineese .. so he smears one country .. im just saying dont blame them alone, sure they might have "invented" it or whatever .. but they are not the only ones doing it.

First let me say that I don’t think it is a smear to point out that a particular country or countries is/are acting in a particular way relative to others.

It isn’t an implication through “invention”. The Chinese rise in market share over the last 20 odd years has the added effect of making things that were once out of the reach for average Chinese now much more affordable. The unfortunate consequence of this is that China’s overall desire for shark fin soup has increased as well. You seemed to have missed that part in my first post.

If you get a chance to see “Sharkwater” I’d recommend it. The film (as but one source) shows how China’s rise in economic power has led to other countries (such as Costa Rica) overlooking their own fishing regulatory practices in order to stay in good favor with the Chinese. This in part leads to these countries allowing a careless and wasteful proliferation of shark fishing to take place in their territories, using long lining no less.

So on the one hand you are right, China can’t be blamed for the Costa Rican government’s decision to allow this to take place, but they can be blamed for creating the environment where this kind of thing takes place on the whole, especially when the vast majority of fins ends up in China (for this post consider Taiwan part of mainland China).

This is where I disagree with you.

I am a US citizen, and I am sure that people could allude to these types of practices by my country in other contexts as well. Does this automatically mean that the US is a terrible country? I’d say no. And speaking from my experiences in China so far, the people here tend not to appreciate wasteful behavior. Things are hard to get here on the whole, so this practice would be less appreciated by the average Chinese person than one might think. The fact is they probably have little to no idea how the shark fins are being acquired. They are just thinking about how nice it is to now be able to afford symbols of affluence when this was not the case even ten years ago. Which culture on this planet hasn’t been guilty of this kind of shortsightedness from time to time?

That point conceded, you seem hung up on this idea that China shouldn’t be blamed for all this when shark fin soup can be found everywhere. By way of an analogy, allow me to use my own country one more time. The United States consumes more the 25% of the world’s produced energy annually. Denmark significantly less. If I were to say that Denmark’s responsibility for reduced carbon emissions ought to be the same as the United States because Denmark “uses energy too”, would you find this a good argument? If you don’t perhaps you see the scope of the issue better than before.

Cheers!

[Red Sea Shadow]

http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/red-sea/287615-shark-attack-st-johns-red-sea.html

[KaitsuK]

I was one week before diving at the same site with our Finnish team, which was doing our fourth liveboard trip to Red Sea, with Emperor. During one of our dives we faced also Oceanic White Tip (which had followed us ca 15 kilometers from other reef) "very closely". We identified this shark to be same in these two reefs, as it had "defected" left side fin.

Nevertheless, that shark was really interested in to get contact to one of our team members. I succeeded to take the situation to video (!).

Later on I'll put available the complete video in Full HD, but now there is ca 2-minute clip which can be watched from one of the Finnish evening papers website called Iltalehti. (unfortunately it seems, that as I'm new member here, I'm not allowed to send web link ?!! :dontknow: I would be happy to share my video...)

In this case our teammate hit three times the shark to head with camera housing, and kicked once. Then the shark went ca 60 meters away, but started to came again... Luckily, our zodiac came "Just on time" and our friend was able to go there. We others waited until the shark went away (after patrolling some time around the zodiac), and then rised to surface and to zodiac... heart beating quite fast... ;-)

Kai

[Dadvocate]

Welcome to SB, Kai!

I'd be very interested in that video if the time comes when you can post it.

Cheers!

[farsidefan1]

reporting hijacked thread

[Knuspar]

reporting hijacked thread
the finish guy mentioning a incident about the behavior of a oceanic white tipped is no different that the discussion about what countries are involved in shark finning ..

What I'm saying is, you should have reported this thread ages ago...


On topic: Id love to see that video, its not the first time i ever heard of longimanus acting like this, don't forget it is indeed a opportunistic shark. You should have gotten out of the water asap it started to be too curious :)

Good thing all went well.

[vladimir]

Welcome to SB, Kai!

I'd be very interested in that video if the time comes when you can post it.

Cheers!Yes, welcome to ScubaBoard. I'd like to see the video too. I am sure nobody would mind if you just posted four times using at least 5 characters, like this:

.....

and then the video.

They'd be about as useful as the average ScubaBoard post anyway. ;)

[Scubakevdm]

This is how the trade goes for a French live-aboard operator in the red sea
YouTube - PlongñÆ Requin de nuit elphinstone Egypte-Night shark dive elphinstone reef Egypt (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OxIXznhJQfQ)
Joomeo - Photo sharing / Partage de photos (http://joomeo.fr/showcase.php?id=45019a08951cc8f99e6a168b1782c443&ps=3&sc=1&fs=1&type=0&color=000000)

Thank you for providing us with a glimpse of reality. Taken with Samaka's remarks it seems to me to paint a picture of recklessness. Whether or not the particular operation that the unfortunate snorkeler was diving from was engaging in this type of activity is moot. Someone was doing it, and that was enough to impact the animal's behavior. I think it would be very difficult to argue that the activities portrayed in the photos that you linked and the attack on the snorkeler were unrelated.

Before we get a slew of "Let's not jump to conclusions, they could have been drying the chicken part out in the salt air just above the water to make chicken jerky." or " The guy could have been tanning his hand over the side of the boat and the shark might have swam right in to it." responses let me make one more remark:

When we change the behavior of animals, in the end it is inevitably the animals who will pay for it. It is our responsibility, in my opinion to tread as lightly as we can and to minimize our impact wherever we dive.

[Tigerman]

There is also another issue related to where shark fin soup is being served. If, for example, shark fin soup is being served in the USA, who is to say that the whole shark wasnÃÕ caught and used and not just the fins?

This consideration is an important one, IÃÅ say, because the soup is then the product of a much more reasonable fishing practice....
...

It matters f-all for anything but animal cruelty aspects.
A dead shark is as incapable of reproduction if it died slowly with its fins chopped of as if it was hit in the head and killed "instantly".

As far as the incident goes, its a tragic one for the victim and the ones that knew her, but thats the risk we take when we intrude on their domain.
If we have been getting them accustomed to people as well by feeding them, its a risk we have actively increased ourselves :(

[ScubaSteve]

I may be wrong but I was under the impression that this was one of those supervised shark feeds.


Did you get this from the Reuters article posted by the OP?

[KaitsuK]

Yes, welcome to ScubaBoard. I'd like to see the video too. I am sure nobody would mind if you just posted four times using at least 5 characters, like this:
.....

and then the video.

They'd be about as useful as the average ScubaBoard post anyway. ;)

Thank you. I'll do three more mails (this is #2) and then share the link... :)

[KaitsuK]

Welcome to SB, Kai!
I'd be very interested in that video if the time comes when you can post it.
Cheers!



....
On topic: Id love to see that video, its not the first time i ever heard of longimanus acting like this, don't forget it is indeed a opportunistic shark. You should have gotten out of the water asap it started to be too curious :)
Good thing all went well.

Thanks. Please find the videoclip here:
Netti-tv | Iltalehti.fi (http://www.iltalehti.fi/nettitv/?6935400)

Cheers!

/Kai

[alewar]

I was one week before diving at the same site with our Finnish team, which was doing our fourth liveboard trip to Red Sea, with Emperor. During one of our dives we faced also Oceanic White Tip (which had followed us ca 15 kilometers from other reef) "very closely". We identified this shark to be same in these two reefs, as it had "defected" left side fin.

Nevertheless, that shark was really interested in to get contact to one of our team members. I succeeded to take the situation to video (!).

Later on I'll put available the complete video in Full HD, but now there is ca 2-minute clip which can be watched from one of the Finnish evening papers website called Iltalehti. (unfortunately it seems, that as I'm new member here, I'm not allowed to send web link ?!! :dontknow: I would be happy to share my video...)

In this case our teammate hit three times the shark to head with camera housing, and kicked once. Then the shark went ca 60 meters away, but started to came again... Luckily, our zodiac came "Just on time" and our friend was able to go there. We others waited until the shark went away (after patrolling some time around the zodiac), and then rised to surface and to zodiac... heart beating quite fast... ;-)

Kai

What is the best thing to do if you see your buddy or a member of your teem in a similar situation? Try to approach the diver in danger and see if the number frightens the shark, or stay away filming how the dude is potentially eaten?

[lemon]

Thanks. Please find the videoclip here:
Netti-tv | Iltalehti.fi (http://www.iltalehti.fi/nettitv/?6935400)

Cheers!

/Kai

wow! that shark was way too interested. glad your buddy is OK. tell him to carry a bigger camera next time! :shocked2:

[Dadvocate]

It matters f-all for anything but animal cruelty aspects.
A dead shark is as incapable of reproduction if it died slowly with its fins chopped of as if it was hit in the head and killed "instantly".

What exactly are you disagreeing with in my post? I’ve not suggested any of the things you are implying in this quote above. If someone fishes sharks and uses the whole shark then that means it isn’t being tossed back into the sea to die in this fashion. There are also other considerations, such as the fact that the meat being kept shows that the whole animal is seen as being valuable, this as opposed to just the fins. This is a huge difference that changes the dynamic in how sharks are seen as a commodity. I’m sorry if that sounds callous, but sharks have been hunted reasonably as a food source before the onset of this catastrophic finning business kicked in.

I agree that a dead shark can’t reproduce, but that argument can be made for any animal in the sea as well. Do you eat any of these marine products yourself? I understand that we need to work to stop the finning practices that are taking place, but it isn’t going to help matters if we assume that shark fishing will be completely banned if finning ultimately is. Some compromise will need to be struck in certain places somewhere down the line. And to be fair, some people do legitimately fish these animals in a way that is not detrimental to the marine environment because they are actually using the meat and not just the fins.

Perhaps this is a personal choice for you not to eat any shark products at all. I can respect that since I don’t either for my personal reasons. My fiancée doesn’t eat beef or chicken for her personal reasons. However, it isn’t going to help anything if we don’t look at all angles to this problem in order to find practical solutions. There is a good chance that the reasonable fishermen out there on the high seas may well be excellent allies in the future fight to stop those who are wasteful opportunists within the larger finning industry. The more allies the better in my opinion because a solution to save sharks that doesn’t take these considerations seriously will be fraught with many problems.

More than likely you and I agree on the main issues, but I accept that we may differ on this point.

Cheers!

[Dadvocate]

Thanks, Kai Suk!

That is a very interesting video. It turned straight around and headed back for the diver after getting nudged with the camera. That is worrisome behavior.

He also only seemed interested in the diver on the surface.

Cheers!

[KaitsuK]

What is the best thing to do if you see your buddy or a member of your teem in a similar situation? Try to approach the diver in danger and see if the number frightens the shark, or stay away filming how the dude is potentially eaten?

Absolutely the second option (filming)... :cool2:

[Tigerman]

[SIZE=3][/COLOR]

What exactly are you disagreeing with in my post?
...
I disagree that fishing sharks at the rate we are is reasonable, full stop.
It doesnt matter if you use the whole animal or just a part of it as long as the killing is not sustainable.
Yes, I do eat seafood, but not the kind that is about to be hunted to extinction..

[DocIndyDiver]

Thanks, Kai Suk!

He also only seemed interested in the diver on the surface.

Cheers!

In sharkey waters I wouldn't linger long at the surface! Get down or get out.

[Dadvocate]

Tigerman


I disagree that fishing sharks at the rate we are is reasonable, full stop.
It doesnt matter if you use the whole animal or just a part of it as long as the killing is not sustainable.

Yes, I do eat seafood, but not the kind that is about to be hunted to extinction..

Okay fine, if you need to disagree with someone that badly, by all means twist what the person actually says into easy to knock down straw men positions and then disagree with those so you can feel righteous or whatever else you need to feel.

Actually responding to what I said proves too difficult apparently, so I’ll leave the pulpit pounding to you and wish you luck. We’re hijacking the thread anyway.

Doc Indy Diver:


In sharkey waters I wouldn't linger long at the surface! Get down or get out.

Point well taken!

Cheers!

[Tigerman]

Tigerman



Okay fine, if you need to disagree with someone that badly, by all means twist what the person actually says into easy to knock down straw men positions and then disagree with those so you can feel righteous or whatever else you need to feel.

Actually responding to what I said proves too difficult apparently, so IÃÍl leave the pulpit pounding to you and wish you luck. WeÃÓe hijacking the thread anyway.

..
Cheers!
*** is your problem? I answered specifically about the killing of sharks for whatever reason and use at the current rate. I also answered your following question. Now if you want me to answer something you didnt actually ask, be informed that im not a psychic that can read your mind.
If you want me to agree that killing sharks and using the whole shark is any more sustainable than finning it and throwing it back to die, without doing something about the rate of which it happens, you wont get it..

[boulderjohn]

It is my understanding that shark meat in general is not particularly palatable, so it is not a good target for fishermen--they can't sell the meat.

The advantage to the finners is that they can fill a storage area with fins without keeping large caracasses for which there is no real market.

[Dadvocate]

*** is your problem? I answered specifically about the killing of sharks for whatever reason and use at the current rate. I also answered your following question. Now if you want me to answer something you didnt actually ask, be informed that im not a psychic that can read your mind.
If you want me to agree that killing sharks and using the whole shark is any more sustainable than finning it and throwing it back to die, without doing something about the rate of which it happens, you wont get it..

Gee, what a great idea! In fact I agree wholeheartedly:

The odds are the restaurants serving shark fin soup in the places you mention are catering to Chinese travelers anyway. And more than likely a bowl of this soup in Indonesia for example represents only a small portion of the sharks killed for their fins which are sent to China everyday. It is served all over the place in some parts of China.

The fact remains that the proliferation of finning practices has grown right along with the growing middle class in China, which has the unfortunate side effect of hearkening in people an archaic need to show prosperity in modern times using some ridiculous throwback to the emperors of yore. And unfortunately from my experience so far, things change very, very slowly in China, too slowly to hope that sharks can outlast the trend.

All of the finning practices that take place in South America, Indonesia, Malaysia, and elsewhere happen as a direct result of the demand coming out of my host country which springs from this growing middle class. Taiwan seems to be a major driving force as well. And it isn’t enough to simply not eat the soup in my opinion. If you see it on offer in an establishment somewhere, please tell the waiter or the owner that you think it is a terrible practice and leave. That is what I forced my soon to be in-laws to do when I saw shark fin soup on the menu in Langkawi on my last holiday. The waiter wasn’t too happy, which I hope translates into a change in practice if more people do the same.No smoke and mirrors or crystal balls needed. All you have to do is read the entire post before shooting down arguments that you haven’t fully read.
Later I say this:

This consideration is an important one, I’d say, because the soup is then the product of a much more reasonable fishing practice. The wastefulness of the finning practices happening today is tied to the fact that only the fins are being used, with the rest of the animal being tossed back into the sea. This practice can be traced to China, probably southern China.Where am I denying that the rate at which sharks are being killed is fine and that people ought to hunt sharks whole or otherwise with impunity? I don’t actually. That is what you choose to see. I simply recognize that shark fishing is not one that can be lumped into one category.
I think it is still reasonable to note that some shark fishing has been done reasonably in the past, generally as a result of using the whole animal. Do you deny this? In addition to this fact, people hunting for sharks tend to throw the carcasses overboard because they take up storage space that fins could otherwise fill. A person hunting a few sharks for the whole animal would not view the fishing practice in the same way. This is the point. The rate, not matter how you slice it, would be drastically different, not to mention less geared toward the trafficking aspects of the business. And the long lining that goes hand in hand with the finning industry is not traditionally associated with the shark fishing focused on catching the whole animal.
Again, I don’t eat shark products either, but I can recognize the differences in the practice of how these animals are fished by different people with different agendas.
Your point about rate of fishing is actually central to both our points believe it or not. You can choose to see that or not. I wash my hands of this tiff. The last word is yours, mate.

Boulderjohn:


It is my understanding that shark meat in general is not particularly palatable, so it is not a good target for fishermen--they can't sell the meat.It is edible. Palatable is always in the gut of the beholder of course. I had shark meat many years ago in California when I was younger. I recall it as being similar to swordfish. It was served with lemon. I don't recall the species, though.

Cheers!

[Christian]

It is my understanding that shark meat in general is not particularly palatable, so it is not a good target for fishermen--they can't sell the meat.

The advantage to the finners is that they can fill a storage area with fins without keeping large caracasses for which there is no real market.

There's a market for shark meat, but sharkfin is worth a lot more per kilo/oz/gram, so it's bad business practice to fill up the finite space of the boat with less valuable goods. That's why they toss the body back into the water.

Problem with sharks compared to many other fish is their relative slow reproduction rate. On an avarage they can't reproduce until they've reached ten years (slight variation for different spieces). So even small scale fishing can depleat an area quite rapidly.

[beachn69]

Supervised Shark feeding. And what exactly does the supervision do should the Shark feel a little frisky? Thats a joke. You cannot control your enviroment. When will people learn?

[Jeff Toorish]

IMHO, supervised shark feeds are a bad idea! You are training sharks to relate divers with food. There are many oportunities to see sharks in thier natural environment and behavior. There is no need to bait them in with a chumsicle.

Rich --

Just wondering, do you have any empirical data to support this? I ask because I've seen this statement often but I've never actually seen any evidence to support it. I'm familiar with supervised shark feeds and I've never seen the sharks become aggressive or otherwise behave differently when divers are present without a feed being conducted.

I'm not saying your point isn't accurate, but I'd like to see the data.

One would think that where shark feeds are common there would be a lot more human/shark incidents but I've never seen any statistical correlation. In fact, in the very few instances where a diver has been bitten by a shark during a feeding, the shark seemed to be going for the food and the diver got in the way.

Jeff

[Dadvocate]

The issue isn’t just one of statistics. It is also related to what we have learned about sharks in recent years. They are by and large more intelligent than we used to think, which means they are capable of altering their behavior if it appears beneficial for them to get food. They have been opportunists for a very long time. This is a caveat that is related to all predatory animals I would say.

I don’ t think you are going to find hard and fast statistics that say it is safe or isn’t because from what I have seen the stats tend to be tabulated based on accidents directly related to the dives in question, not necessarily to the effects of feeding sharks on the lager ecosystem and ultimately on the behavior of sharks after the fact. I could be wrong. I am not sure.

What is pretty clear to me is that sharks can become more dangerous as a result of human behavior; as the many bull shark attacks in Recife Brazil over the last 15 years so are starting to show.

This BBC article discusses how a port development may have impacted how bull sharks in the area have congregated (females in particular) and how they are now attacking people when they didn’t before.

The other article blames changes in the natural order of things for the rise in shark attacks. Discovery Channel implies that a slaughterhouse is perhaps responsible for these attacks also because they had been illegally dumping byproducts in the water, thus creating a bad situation for people in the surrounding area.

I’m not suggesting that any of this is scientific, but the adage that is true on land could very well also be true for predatory animals in the sea: “Don’t feed the [fill in dangerous animal her]!”

Why should this be any less true in the water than it is on land?

Links:

BBC NEWS | Americas | Shark attacks terrorise Brazil (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4111175.stm)

Recife: Revenge of the Sharks - Brazilmax.com (http://www.brazilmax.com/news.cfm/tborigem/pl_northeast/id/14)

Shark Week, Day 5: Shark Rebellion (a.k.a., Discovery Realizes That Viewers Have Brains) - Divester (http://www.divester.com/2006/08/04/shark-week-day-5-shark-rebellion-a-k-a-discovery-realizes-th/) (blog)

Cheers!

[Christian]

The issue isnÃÕ just one of statistics. It is also related to what we have learned about sharks in recent years. They are by and large more intelligent than we used to think, which means they are capable of altering their behavior if it appears beneficial for them to get food. They have been opportunists for a very long time. This is a caveat that is related to all predatory animals I would say.

I don t think you are going to find hard and fast statistics that say it is safe or isnÃÕ because from what I have seen the stats tend to be tabulated based on accidents directly related to the dives in question, not necessarily to the effects of feeding sharks on the lager ecosystem and ultimately on the behavior of sharks after the fact. I could be wrong. I am not sure.

What is pretty clear to me is that sharks can become more dangerous as a result of human behavior; as the many bull shark attacks in Recife Brazil over the last 15 years so are starting to show.

This BBC article discusses how a port development may have impacted how bull sharks in the area have congregated (females in particular) and how they are now attacking people when they didnÃÕ before.

The other article blames changes in the natural order of things for the rise in shark attacks. Discovery Channel implies that a slaughterhouse is perhaps responsible for these attacks also because they had been illegally dumping byproducts in the water, thus creating a bad situation for people in the surrounding area.

IÃÎ not suggesting that any of this is scientific, but the adage that is true on land could very well also be true for predatory animals in the sea: Å¥onÃÕ feed the [fill in dangerous animal her]!

Why should this be any less true in the water than it is on land?

Links:

BBC NEWS | Americas | Shark attacks terrorise Brazil (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4111175.stm)

Recife: Revenge of the Sharks - Brazilmax.com (http://www.brazilmax.com/news.cfm/tborigem/pl_northeast/id/14)

Shark Week, Day 5: Shark Rebellion (a.k.a., Discovery Realizes That Viewers Have Brains) - Divester (http://www.divester.com/2006/08/04/shark-week-day-5-shark-rebellion-a-k-a-discovery-realizes-th/) (blog)

Cheers!

Where do you find information suggesting that shark attacks are on the rise? According to ISAF, which is the most reliable source in my book, attacks or incident where fewer in 2008 than in 2007. In the last ten years, incidents have been pretty stable around 50-60 yearly worldwide, a handful of them with deadly outcome. One should also take into consideration that more and more people go into the ocean to swim, snorkel, waterski, surf, dive etc. for every year. Tens of thousands of shark dives are conducted yearly. I think it's safe to say that diving with sharks (even baited) from a statistical perspective is extremely safe.

Personally, I think the biggest misconception when talking about sharks is that they think of us as food. This is what scares people. Sharks can bite people. But they normally don't eat us.

Another misconseption is the use of the word feeding. In the vast majority of shark diving is baiting and feeding doesn't acually take place. Fish scraps are used to create a scent trail to lure sharks closer to the divers.

[Jeff Toorish]

I agree, I don't see data that shark attacks are on the rise. And if shark feeding were somehow causing sharks to equate humans and food, there would be a lot more shark/human incidents.

The bulk of incidents seem to be in places where there are no organized feeds. If memory serves, and this should be easily verified, most shark incidents happen in shallow water and are mistaken identity, just as they have pretty much always been.

I would l ike to see some empirical data that shows sharks react to human or mammal blood and byproducts. With the exception of the sharks that feed primarily on mammals, such as seals, I can't believe that our blood and flesh is at all appealing most sharks, especially when encased in an oh-so-appetizing noeprene taco shell.

Again, this isn't meant to offend or incite, but I think there are really a lot of simple misconceptons about sharks that even divers hold. I'm sure we have all been on a dive boat where someone was worried that a cut would attract sharks.

Can shark behavior be altered by humans --of course. Just as human attitudes about sharks were altered by a 1970s movie. But that is a far cry from sharks suddenly ignoring hundreds of millions of years of evolution and viewing divers as food.

Jeff

[samui13]

you might want to pop over to WP for an account of what had happend out at St Johns from someone who was there.

Sad News in Egypt - Wetpixel :: Underwater Photography Forums (http://wetpixel.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=30702&st=40)

Dive safe, Stew

[InTheDrink]

Been meaning to post but been too busy. Whilst I wasn't at St John I was last week at Elphinstone, The Brothers and Daedalus. No idea whether the talk is true or not but the guides are saying that the sharks are behaving differently. Longimanus is getting very curious. Hammerheads swimming at 5m close to the reef. Our main guide got bumped by three OWT together and said it was the first time in 12 years that she was properly spooked and needed to exit the water.

We had lots of wonderful encounters and a couple that were a little too close for comfort. I'd do it again tomorrow, it was all amazing but it was also clear how things could go wrong quickly. A Russian lady had her calf bitten, witnessed by one of our guides, a week or two before we went out. She was swimming and paniced and flapped when the longimanus was approaching. I'd still maintain that if you keep calm the risk is minimal but I am no expert on this topic, this is just from what I observed.

The other thing I observed was that diving in pure black is a good thing. Divers with white or strangely shaped fins or other contrasting colours got lots more attention. SMBs were also not something you wanted to be hanging around. The OWTs seemed to love them.

Last thing - our Egyptian guide, who was a star, seemed very set on the premise that 'something is wrong in our waters'. The sharks are behaving differently, who knows why, but it seems like something is changing. Granted it may be just that with the death reporting is causing an increase in conciousness but from what the guides were saying they seemed to think something more sinister was afoot.

I'd like to stress however that diving with OWTs is completely fine and you'd need to be very unlucky to get bitten. I know one of our guests did his damndest and still didn't.

Cheers,
J

[saramiller]

not sure to dive now

[Crowley]

Hiya - I haven't read through the whole post so forgive me if I repeat already available information. I work in the Red Sea (Sharm el Sheikh) and today, I was shown a photograph of the victim being pulled aboard the boat. This was clearly a proper attack. Most shark attacks are one bite (which may be fatal, of course) but without going in to details, this looked like a reactionary attack - aggressive and/or defensive. It has been confirmed that the shark was indeed an oceanic white tip; but I can't get confirmation as to exactly what happened. The first account I was given was that the deceased actually actively jumped into the water with the intent of snorkelling with the shark. If you jump in through my apartment window, I may well bite you too.

Other topics that have cropped up:
Shark feeding: I have mixed feelings about this. I have participated in such a dive in Australia and it was one of the most amazing underwater experiences of my life. It was also very well organised and controlled. All divers should see these magnificent animals doing what they do best. Do they associate humans/divers with feeding? One might ask the same of dolphins, or cats, or cows. Yes, the circumstance might be artificial, but one might argue that it does little overall harm (compared to say, fishing) and these things happen by the hundreds, worldwide, every day.

Sharks are not stupid. They were there before we were, they had no interest in us, although a few did pass by very closely to say hello. Although the sharks were being deliberatley fed, the pickings were, to be fair, very slim. Three tuna heads hardly constitutes breakfast for 60 reef sharks.

Saramiller do not be afraid to dive because these creatures are in the water. If you ever see them you should count yourself privelage and not only will you survive but it will be one of the most amazing experiences of your life

It is tragic that anybody should die in this fashion - of course on behalf of the family, but now the scaremongering starts. These are not regular occurences and they can hardly be 'covered up' given the coprophagic tendancies of the media these days.

Please do not let this incident discourage you either from diving or diving with sharks. Occaisonally, bad things will happen but don't forget, you are more likely to be hit by lightning that be attacked by a shark.

Safe diving,

C.

[InTheDrink]

From the guides on my boat the information was much as Samaka has indicated. The lady was snorkelling. She ducked dived down to get nearer to the shark. Shark followed her up and bit her. I saw the photo too whilst on my trip and it was gruesome.

These sharks are incredibly amazing and I would happily spend months jumping in with them every day if I could. Crowley is right - the odds of getting injured by a shark are extremely low and any time you see one count your lucky stars.

I haven't had lots of exposure to sharks however the Oceanics definitely seem a lot more curious than other types of shark I've encountered. But that is what made it so fun. And it rarely felt threatening (altho on a couple of occasions it did but I am a total pussy :)).

In terms of scaremongering, hmmm, dunno. It does sound like there are perhaps more frequent accidents than are reported. In the last month there have been a few - maybe this was just an exceptional month? The guides seemed to think it was a 'funny' year...sharks acting bit strange. Maybe there's not enough food around anymore? Maybe they're getting more used to divers/snorkellers? One thing is a worry is that if any or many more 'accidents/fatalities' happen in this location it could well be removed as a diving location by the authorities, from what I'm told. That would be a tragic overreaction in my view. But the diving industry appears pretty important to Egypt and I imagine they would be worried about people going elsewhere if there were too many stories about shark attacks.

Cheers,
J

[Crowley]

update - I have it from a diver on board (same girl who sent my customer the photo I saw) the boat tied up alongside that the boat crew were deliberately chumming the water to attract sharks. This is illegal in Egyptian waters and I hope they get everything they deserve. The lady decided to freedive down to see the shark and was attacked. As I'm sure we all know from watching shark week on discovery channel - when they get the feeding frenzy on, they'll bite anything - even each other.

Sharks also have individual personalities - some are big bad bullies, just like humans.

In terms of the frequency of shark attacks - I don't think they are on the increase (yet - it's just good news when one country isn't bombing the crap out of another) but we are relentlessly removing the top predator from the oceans so their fins can be put into a rather bland (apparently, I would never eat the stuff) soup. Removing a predator may increase or decrease populations on the rank below - think of rabbits and myxamatosis, for example. If shark attacks are on the increase we have only ourselves as a race to blame.

These are magnificent animals that have existed for longer than the dinosaurs and we should not only respect them but cherish them before they are gone.

Safe diving,

C.

[InTheDrink]

Agreed, dive with sharks now - while stocks last. The Chinese appetite for sharks (and other endangered species) is a disaster. I've not heard of any plan that's going to fix that part.

Crowley, I'd be interested to learn what they were chumming with and what the rationale for
it was? Where I was (Brothers, Daedalus, Elphinstone) there was definitely no need to chum. There were OWTs around the boat most of the time.

I know an immediate response would be to think that the reason they were around the boats is cos they are getting food from the boats but there are equally plausible explanations, which it might be worth mentioning here:

The boats form something of a shelter/reef and lots of smaller or normal fish (as our guide called them) congregate around the boat, typically on one side. This in turn attracts slightly larger fish (to eat the smaller ones) which in turn attracts slightly bigger fish (like Barracuda/Tuna) which in turn attracts the OWTs. During the day we would see one, maybe two OWTs around the boat. But at night time (after midnight) sometimes as many as 5 or 6, all hunting). This makes me think that the OWTs hang around the boat not for the 'human hand outs' - which I never witnessed at all - but because it's a fertile hunting ground.

I'm still really puzzled though why someone would resort to chumming when it was rarely more than 15 minutes between visits from the OWTs. I can't imagine that St John is any less populated with OWTs. If anything, I would have thought even more.

Cheers,
John

[Crowley]

Hi InTheDrink -

I will do my best to find out - I have a friend in Marsa Alam but am seemingly unable to contact her. Knowing the boats here, if they were 'chumming' it would have been whatever was left over from supper the night before. I've been told that food was put into the water. I have no idea if this was even deliberate.

I actually didn't know this but I also understand that the Oceanic White Tip is a more frequent visitor to the reefs that I thought - especially the Brothers, apparently.

Dive boats - particularly liveaboards attract all sorts of attention - either as shelter or as a reliable food source - there's always a truck load of fish under a dive boat - I refer to them as 'toilet fish'!

Feeding, dumping, spearfishing, (even line fishing) - all that stuff is illegal in the protected parts of the Red Sea. Hopefully somebody somewhere will be able to give us a definitive report. Regulations in the area are becoming more tightly enforced and if there was any malpractice on the part of the operator, hopefully appropriate action will be taken.

Cheers

C.

[InTheDrink]

Think you've hit the nail on the head. We all poo and little fish love it. Plus a ready made shleter/reef. It creates its own micro-environment.

I have heard though too of chickens etc. being held out to attract some action. I was there for only one week, saw nothing like this, so couldn't comment apart from what I already said - it would seem pretty pointless. The sharks were around already. If the sharks weren't around clappping two weights together would ensure that they'd be around 30 seconds later.

One thing I think worth mentioning though is that, from what I could observe, regulation is follwed to the letter in the Red Sea. Definitely the most conscientious place I've come across. They are very focussed on the wellbeing of their sea and I commend them for this. It is of slight concern that night dives and snorkelling are not allowed now (but please note these bans are well observed) at reefs where Longimanus is or may be present. But the fear must be that they close it off to divers too. That would be a major loss. I plan to do southern Egypt every year so wonderful was the experience.

Cheers,
J

[BlueKnight]

Hi All. Just thought I would add a little somthing to the equation. I once heard right or wrong that most shark attacks were due to the fact we look a little like seals. For example, surf boards from under water have a similar sillouette to a seal heance a lot of bitten surf board. Perhaps when this poor lady duck dived she mimiced a distressed fish abeit a big one :) I am no marine bioligist but it does give rise to thought. Oh remind me never to snorkel in black wet suite near killer whales lol.

[vladimir]

Hi All. Just thought I would add a little somthing to the equation. I once heard right or wrong that most shark attacks were due to the fact we look a little like seals. For example, surf boards from under water have a similar sillouette to a seal heance a lot of bitten surf board. Perhaps when this poor lady duck dived she mimiced a distressed fish abeit a big one :) I am no marine bioligist but it does give rise to thought. Oh remind me never to snorkel in black wet suite near killer whales lol.There is not a lot of overlap between the cold-water habitat of seals and the tropical to warm-temperate habitat of C. longimanus, the shark implicated in this attack.

The idea that the victim mimicked a distressed fish in some respect makes sense to me though.

I have never read an account of an orca attack on a snorkeler in open water. There have been attacks on trainers at theme parks...they may have had snorkels, but nobody thinks they were cases of mistaken identity.

[BlueKnight]

The orca comment was on the light hearted side. I dont have enough logged dives to know what it is like diving with sharks and they are pretty scarce in the UK :) I am looking forward to the first experiance of diving with these great animals and this thread although has shown me to respect them, it certainly hasent put me off.

[Tigerman]

...
I have never read an account of an orca attack on a snorkeler in open water. There have been attacks on trainers at theme parks...they may have had snorkels, but nobody thinks they were cases of mistaken identity.
No, those where probably cases of revenge :p

[airmech]

Oh remind me never to snorkel in black wet suite near killer whales lol.

i thought there was no recorded cases of killer whales killing humans.

i saw a programme where the film makers were recording a pod of killer whales over a long period.
they were interested in the pod, as they used to beach themselves to catch seals
+then use the power of their tails, to get themselves back off the beach +into the water.

the pod had a few young whales.
one of the young whales was being shown how to do the beaching, catching +unbeaching....
later on it got stuck on the beach +wouldve died.
all the pod were just off shore making noises, to encourage the young whale to get off the beach.

the film crew figured out that the young whale was stuck +would die.
they went +helped the whale off the beach +back into the sea.

the whales mother, swam over to the film makers +appeared to thank them?
after that, they said they were treated like honorary pod members +allowed to swim amongst the pod :D

[airmech]

There is not a lot of overlap between the cold-water habitat of seals and the tropical to warm-temperate habitat of C. longimanus, the shark implicated in this attack.

The idea that the victim mimicked a distressed fish in some respect makes sense to me though.

or the shark thought the lone swimmer duck diving down towards it, was a threat?

[wilde100]

or the shark thought the lone swimmer duck diving down towards it, was a threat?

I'm guess that the swimmer being alone contributed to the attack. We have always agreed that a combination of factors are always present in any incident.

In this case, I believe whether it be the swimmer silhouette, her profile mimicking a distressed fish, or that she was separated from the group all contributed to the incident.

Most glaring, I believe that the swimmers were probably not properly briefed on safety precautions before entering the water - but I'm open to being corrected by people with more concrete information than the guesswork I'm putting out.

[Crowley]

or the shark thought the lone swimmer duck diving down towards it, was a threat?

It would appear, from everything I've heard, that this may indeed have been the case.

[InTheDrink]

It would appear, from everything I've heard, that this may indeed have been the case.

I'm not an expert but it sounds more like she was behaving like prey and also separated. These guys don't appear to feel threatened much, they seem quite ok with close contact and with a single snorkeller I can't imagine it would have felt trapped, but who knows.

Sounds more like she looked like a fleeing fish, flapping/finning, heading towards surface. They appear to like contrasting colours too (e.g. white against black) but I don't know whether this was true in this case, whether she was wearing a shortie or something.

Crowley, do you have any direct info to the contrary or to support the 'threat' motive? Just curious as I haven't heard anything of substance since getting back and wondering whehter there's been any update on the thinking.

Cheers,
John

[InTheDrink]

Most glaring, I believe that the swimmers were probably not properly briefed on safety precautions before entering the water - but I'm open to being corrected by people with more concrete information than the guesswork I'm putting out.

I believe that swimming/snorkelling was quite common up and until the accident. I can't vouch for any briefing prior to the accident but certainly the briefing I received two weeks after were very thorough indeed - and snorkelling swimming & night dives in locations where longimanus frequents is no longer allowed.

[airmech]

with any species of shark i've seen, "size rules" +the smaller animal gets out of the way.
if she duck dived towards the shark, she was approaching the shark.

when she then returns to the surface to breath, that couldve been seen as backing down?

maybe it couldve been something as simple as a shark close encounter?
an ocassion when a diver might have had to push the shark away with a fin or torch, but she had neither? who knows?
tragic occurance.

[AndyA]

If the above is true and the "victim" was trying to feed the shark, when will they ever learn??

When Darwin disambiguation has completed the cycle through the human species -- Never

[zidan egypt]

Blame it on the Egyptians ! grate ! the Egyptian red sea diving sits are the most visited sits in the world with its exceptional colorful soft and hard corals and species that are not found any where else . we have more than enough tourists enjoying the wanders of the red sea , and if you face the lion (shark) be prepared to be lunch .so pick up your gear and get here:eyebrow:;) ,but don’t blame the Egyptians on any thing if you decide to come.:no:

[AfterDark]

Blame it on the Egyptians ! grate ! the Egyptian red sea diving sits are the most visited sits in the world with its exceptional colorful soft and hard corals and species that are not found any where else . we have more than enough tourists enjoying the wanders of the red sea , and if you face the lion (shark) be prepared to be lunch .so pick up your gear and get here:eyebrow:;) ,but don’t blame the Egyptians on any thing if you decide to come.:no:

So if I went to Egypt and got hit by a car crossing the street it would be my fault for being there?

[Detectivedver]

of course a diving chamber is protecting her board members as this accident was on board member boat who allow shark feeding as he consider himself above the law.
why not if the cheif of dive chamber in Egypt is the owner of biggest bar and he is the biggest distributer of Hieneken beer in shrm and close friend of the minister money power and alcoloho
this is our new DIVING MAFIA OF EGYPT
they buy all important people and they kill tourists spoil tourrism
now we see more diving accident with CAMEL DIVE that we call it the CEMERTY OF THE DIVERS
they even buy newspapers to write goo news and success about the diving chamber what a success !! really MAFIA §§§§§!!!!!!!!:mooner::mooner:

[Air One]

So if I went to Egypt and got hit by a car crossing the street it would be my fault for being there?

For being there, yes it's your fault.
For being hit by a car, it may be the driver's fault.

For being killed by a shark, it is nobody's fault.



of course a diving chamber is protecting her board members as this accident was on board member boat who allow shark feeding as he consider himself above the law.
why not if the cheif of dive chamber in Egypt is the owner of biggest bar and he is the biggest distributer of Hieneken beer in shrm and close friend of the minister money power and alcoloho
this is our new DIVING MAFIA OF EGYPT
they buy all important people and they kill tourists spoil tourrism
now we see more diving accident with CAMEL DIVE that we call it the CEMERTY OF THE DIVERS
they even buy newspapers to write goo news and success about the diving chamber what a success !! really MAFIA §§§§§!!!!!!!!:mooner::mooner:


I don't really understand what you mean.
But I'd like to answer this :
Dude, your post sucks...

A tout hasard, essaie en français, on y verra peut-être plus clair ?
Le patron de camel dive est propriétaire de tous les caissons d'Egypte il s'est offert le ministre des finances et de l'alcool il vend un max de heineken et c'est le roi de la mafia ? C'est ça que tu veux dire ?

[alcadhrim]

Well, my friend, I dive in Egypt (MArsa Alam mainly) a lot...
I enjoy it.
I've faced sharks and one simple thing, I'm not a God, and I know that, so before leaving Belgium, and during my stay, I asked, ask et I will ask again (the next week) about how to behave in front of a shark.

I you dive in a tropical area, shark is a thing that you can encounter. It is a fact.
No need of mafia to explain that.

Maybe a proper briefing and better a diver which listen the briefing (and maybe understand it) could avoid those sad events.

I'm sorry but the most dangerous things I meet in Egypt was some divers thinking they were so far better than those "****ing PADI Egyptians" (this is a citation!) that they could skip briefing...Sorry but with longi it is a very bad idea.

I hope I've been correct, if not: apologizes, I'm french speaker.

[drbill]

it happens but it is very rare in most places. to get a good look or even a picture is even rarer. and if you are looking for specific kinds of sharks you can basically forget it. who has seen a great white, a tiger, a mako, a blue without baiting?

While I pretty much agree with the post, I have seen all four up close and personal without any baiting (or residual tooth marks on my body!). However, these days it requires plenty of baiting to bring them in here in our waters.

[Crowley]

Gonna chime in here cos I think some people need to go back and read the original posts, regardless of what was said in the press. I have seen photos of the victim being pulled out of the water and I know somebody personally who was on one of the safari boats tied up in the same area.

- The crew of at least one, maybe two dive boats were deliberately baiting the sharks by throwing food into the water. From what I have been told, this was not an accidental discharge of food waste.
- The crews of the boats are egyptian - that is not to blame egyptians, it is a simple fact.
- the boats involved were investigated by the CDWS which is the local regulatory body governing diving around the Sinai area. I don't have the results of that investigation.
- The lady who was killed was snorkelling - some press articles suggest she was "separated from the group" when the attack happened. Witnesses suggest she deliberately dived to approach the shark.
- The same shark that killed the snorkeller was seen aggressively bumping divers. At least one diver was injured by the shark, although not in a life-threatening way.
- Oceanics are notorious for bumping and close approaches
- Oceanics are alledgedly responsible for more human fatalities than all other species of shark combined; usually the victims of shipwrecks and in modern times, airplane disasters

As to what may or may not be suppressed by "government" is another matter. A shark which is classified as dangerous was deliberately baited, somebody made a mistake and died as a result. It is difficult to apportion blame in these circumstances. The water is *their* domain, not ours, and if we wish to share it, sometimes we must pay the price for doing so.

Last year, a few people were killed by sharks.

Last year, a few MILLION sharks were needlessly butchered by humans.

It's very tragic for the family, but we must give these magnificent creatures the respect they deserve, and not try to provoke them into what is purely and simply a natural behaviour pattern.

Safe diving.

C.

[alcadhrim]

The water is *their* domain, not ours, and if we wish to share it, sometimes we must pay the price for doing so.

Last year, a few people were killed by sharks.

Last year, a few MILLION sharks were needlessly butchered by humans.


You're wise.

[InTheDrink]

Last year, a few people were killed by sharks.

Last year, a few MILLION sharks were needlessly butchered by humans.

I agree with your entire post bar the 'few' millions part. Tens of millions of sharks were killed. I don't consider ten a 'few'.

I'm off again to the southern reefs, St John's etc in May. Any insight into how the action is this year? Was awesome last year although of course sad some people got injured or died. One of our boat hands showed me a picture of the girl who got bitten and died. Looked horrendous but at least it seems she didn't suffer long. RIP.

J

[Crowley]

I agree with your entire post bar the 'few' millions part. Tens of millions of sharks were killed. I don't consider ten a 'few'.

I'm off again to the southern reefs, St John's etc in May. Any insight into how the action is this year? Was awesome last year although of course sad some people got injured or died. One of our boat hands showed me a picture of the girl who got bitten and died. Looked horrendous but at least it seems she didn't suffer long. RIP.

J

Our first southern Safari of the year is in progress as we speak; I don't think it is appropriate to post about sightings in what is a thread about a tragic accident but I will post in the Red Sea forum as appropriate.

Dive safe,

C.

[InTheDrink]

Our first southern Safari of the year is in progress as we speak; I don't think it is appropriate to post about sightings in what is a thread about a tragic accident but I will post in the Red Sea forum as appropriate.

Dive safe,

C.

Fair point - excuse my lack of sensitivity, no disrespect intended: will check out Red Sea forum.

Thx,
J

[zidan egypt]

Hay Mr. after dark. If you look both sides before crossing you won't be hit by a care. Be wise

[KaitsuK]

I was one week before diving at the same site with our Finnish team,
.....
During one of our dives we faced also Oceanic White Tip (which had followed us ca 15 kilometers from other reef) "very closely". We identified this shark to be same in these two reefs, as it had "defected" left side fin.
.....
Later on I'll put available the complete video in Full HD,...
......

Kai

As promised, here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mHsXyonPycU)is the HD version of that dive (click "720p HD" at the lower right corner of the frame to swithch on HD).

[zidan egypt]

mr. Crowley are you the (elgeziras) crowley on cod6 mp??????????