Caymans: Resort (LCBR) vs. Liveaboard

[tcdamsel]

Have booked trip at LCBR second week of October, never having dived in the Caymans. I'm becoming very enamored with liveaboards to the point that I'm thinking about cancelling my trip there and using the week on the Cayman Aggressor instead. It's a 3 tank dive/day trip, but I get tired of lugging my gear all over the place, and it's so wonderful just to eat, sleep and dive. Having said that, does anyone know if I'll see better dive sites at LCBR than if I go with the liveaboard?? Thanks! :coffee:

[-hh]

Have booked trip at LCBR second week of October, never having dived in the Caymans. I'm becoming very enamored with liveaboards to the point that I'm thinking about cancelling my trip there and using the week on the Cayman Aggressor instead. It's a 3 tank dive/day trip, but I get tired of lugging my gear all over the place, and it's so wonderful just to eat, sleep and dive. Having said that, does anyone know if I'll see better dive sites at LCBR than if I go with the liveaboard?? Thanks! :coffee:

Reef Divers at LCBR is pretty much "White Glove" service, so there's not much gear-hauling: pretty much your drybag, camera & wetsuit.

For dive site specifics, I'm of the understanding that the Cayman Agressor has a "core" list of moorings that they're limited to, partly due to their larger boat. As such, you'll hit the main dive sites in Bloody Bay Marine Park (BBMP) with either option. The short list here typically includes:

Magic Roundabout (aka Nancy's Cup of Tea)
The Meadows
Eagle Ray Roundup
Jackson's Reef and Wall
Buss Stop (aka Bus Top; Bus Stop)
Marilyn's Cut (aka Hole In The Wall)
Randy's Gazebo (aka The Chimneys)
Great Wall West
Lea Lea's Lookout

On a smaller boat, you're more likely to get to more sites, although this may very well take more than just a one week trip. Within Bloody Bay Marine Park, there's also:

Cascades (aka Deep Cascade)
Mike's Mountain
Paul's Anchor
Donna's Delight
Camber's Cove (aka Cumber's Cave)
Blacktip Boulevard
Mixing Bowl (aka Three Fathom Wall)
Great Wall East
Barracuda Bite
Joy's Joy

You can do a simple comparison yourself, by looking at the Aggressor's website's dive site list versus other sources: the Aggressor's map has 12 listed sites on Little Cayman, of which 2 are on the Southside and 10 are on the Northside (Marine Park), whereas the LCBR lists 20 Northside (all Marine Park), although I know that they also dive on the southside (I've dived with them there). There's 20-22 moorings within the BBMP proper, and by some counts, a total of 56 on the island...it always varies, since not all moorings are always in place.

For a quite comprehensive list with descriptions, check out this page (http://www.paradise-divers.com/sites.htm) on Paradise Divers website. Be sure to read the description to site #37 :D

-hh

[BDSC]

Have booked trip at LCBR second week of October, never having dived in the Caymans. I'm becoming very enamored with liveaboards to the point that I'm thinking about cancelling my trip there and using the week on the Cayman Aggressor instead. It's a 3 tank dive/day trip, but I get tired of lugging my gear all over the place, and it's so wonderful just to eat, sleep and dive. Having said that, does anyone know if I'll see better dive sites at LCBR than if I go with the liveaboard?? Thanks! :coffee:

I'd keep my reservations at the LCBR. I was there this past May and it was the best dive trip I have ever taken! The food, rooms, resort, and diving was all top notch.

You hardly lug anything around. You put your equipment out the first morning in a mesh bag and they take it to the boat. Set it up the first time and that's it. All we did was take our wetsuits, masks, and fins back to the locker room at the end of the dive day. Nothing to it.

I do believe, like has already been mentioned, the Aggressor is limited to the number of sites it can moor up to at Little Cayman. And it was told to me that they have to move every few hours from one site to the next but that's probably not a big deal. But by staying at the resort, you will have access to more sites than by staying on the boat unless they run a smaller craft to the various sites.

I don't know what the schedule is of the Aggressor, but one advantage to being on it may be that you get to dive all three Cayman Islands instead of just one. But most will agree that the very best diving in the Cayman's is Bloody Bay Wall.

Either way you go you'll have a great time I'm sure but after having stayed at the LCBR, I can give it my highest recommendation. (For what that's worth:D)

[carriemak]

I can only echo what everyone else has said, keep your reservations at LCBR. It is also my understanding the Aggressor can only reach certain sites due to its size.
Also, I am not sure the valet service of Reef Divers can be topped by anyone, including the Aggressor!

[Thalassamania]

I'd go with the Aggressor, you just flop off and dive. That is what you're there for ... isn't it?

[zf2nt]

hh is correct about the dive sites. The marine park regulations prohibit boats the size of the Cayman Aggressor from using any mooring ball with only one anchor in the ground; they are only allowed to tie where there are two anchors in the ground and a chain running between the two anchors and through the bottom of the mooring line. On Little Cayman, these are identified by having a very large ball on the mooring line at the surface. The little balls belong to the single anchor mooring lines (e.g. Barracuda Bight, Coconut Walk, Ringer's Wall, Blacktip Blvd., Sarah's Set). So there are a lot of very nice spots you won't be able to see off the Aggressor.

HOWEVER...if it were me, I'd follow Thalassamania's advice and go on the Aggressor rather than stay at LCBR. Liveaboard operators tend to be much more permissive than resort DM's, and they will give you far more freedom than you would ever have off a dive resort boat. In part, they can do this because the skill level of the typical liveaboard patron is way above that of the resort guest. Of course, this all depends on what you want out of the dive experience. Personally, I want a dive operator to take me to the site, give me a briefing, then get out of the way and stay out of the way. On the Aggressor, I'm sure I could come back after a 80 or 90 minute dive and everybody would be quite happy about it. Try that on Island Sister and Scottish Ron will hang you by the heels. But maybe you want somebody to lead you by the had and take you on 40 minute dives?

[tcdamsel]

Thanks for everyone's input. I just got back from a resort in Fiji that I had to lug ALL my gear on and off the boat and to and from my bure for many days and it got very old. I was not told about this from the person who led the tour. Even as a somewhat new diver I don't want to be lead around on 40 minute dives nor do I think that other experienced divers would put up with that. Having said that, however, I don't have the SAC rate to go 90 minutes if I've gone below 60 ft. for any period of time anyway! So I think I'll go ahead and see what LCBR has to offer and let you know what I think when I get back.

[Alex777]

I'll vote for the Aggressor too. LCBR is nice, but their approach to experienced divers is conservative. You'll have more freedom to do your own thing (as opposed to trailing around after a DM) on the liveaboard.

[Doubler]

Trailing around a DM on a Liveaboard? Have you been on an Aggressor Boat. With the exception of the checkout dive I never had to dive with a DM on any Aggressor Boat. Once your dive skills are assessed they leave you alone. I've had dives and only saw my buddy the whole time until we all congregated back at the ladder. That being said, The Cayman Aggressor is a great boat with a great crew but pick your time carefully. Personally I would go with the Aggressor because you get up to five dives a day and the service and food, (Chef Savio is outstanding) are superb. So I believe price per dive is better. Check their website and see how many times they have made it over to Little Cayman in October and make your decision based on that. You can't go wrong with either choice.

[Alex777]

Trailing around a DM on a Liveaboard? Have you been on an Aggressor Boat. With the exception of the checkout dive I never had to dive with a DM on any Aggressor Boat. Once your dive skills are assessed they leave you alone. I've had dives and only saw my buddy the whole time until we all congregated back at the ladder. That being said, The Cayman Aggressor is a great boat with a great crew but pick your time carefully. Personally I would go with the Aggressor because you get up to five dives a day and the service and food, (Chef Savio is outstanding) are superb. So I believe price per dive is better. Check their website and see how many times they have made it over to Little Cayman in October and make your decision based on that. You can't go wrong with either choice.

Reread the post & check the parentheses.

[BDSC]

Just to add to my post, you can do your own thing when diving at LCBR except for the time allowed that is. On the first two dives of the day we had a 60 minute time limit and then another 60 minute time limit for the afternoon dive. For me, an hour on a dive is plenty. Also, you didn't have to follow a DM around at all. You can if you want or you can go off and do your own thing. They have no problem at all with that.

[-hh]

I'll vote for the Aggressor too. LCBR is nice, but their approach to experienced divers is conservative. You'll have more freedom to do your own thing (as opposed to trailing around after a DM) on the liveaboard.

Agree on the conservatism for experienced divers. Things were pretty "forgiving" until around 2 years ago...a spat of local diver deaths (across a couple of dive operators, IIRC) very naturally prompted some tightening up, particularly for solo diving.

In any event, 'freedom' is a multi-dimensional question.

A big part of the reason why I personally like places like the Sister Islands so much is the freedom to go for a walk/bike/drive and get away from everyone/everything.

As such, I don't particulary relish being "restricted" to being onboard a boat for a week, as it precludes having time "away" from the boat for land-based options of going for a hike, spending some time at the ponds for birdwatching, a quiet evening walk on a beach, poking around in tidepools, taking in a sunset at Salt Rocks, etc. OTOH, if Lenny Nickerman still has his kayak that I could (ahem!) borrow for some DIY shore excursions... :D


...Check their website and see how many times they have made it over to Little Cayman in October and make your decision based on that. You can't go wrong with either choice.

Good advice. No week is ever going to be risk-free for making the crossing over from Grand Cayman, but October will be IMO better than "winter" (Dec-Feb being generally the worst). What I've found over the past 20 years to be the common prevailing Cayman weather in the Sept/October timeframe is that one can have easterlies (ENE) that can blow fairly stiff "Down the Slot" for a couple of days, then it quiets down, etc.

Just to add to my post, you can do your own thing when diving at LCBR except for the time allowed that is. On the first two dives of the day we had a 60 minute time limit and then another 60 minute time limit for the afternoon dive. For me, an hour on a dive is plenty. Also, you didn't have to follow a DM around at all. You can if you want or you can go off and do your own thing. They have no problem at all with that.

These bottom time schedule limitations do get accentuated some in Little Cayman, due to BBMP's typical topologies, which often has some nice reef areas where one can drift around in for 25-30 minutes at <20fsw to degass and burn off only ~800psi. As such, an hour's BT really isn't necessarily all too hard when you spend half the dive so shallow.

And while a "First In, Last Out" (FILO) strategy can add 10-15 minutes, its not possible for everyone to use a "FILO" strategy. It doesn't help that it is human nature for many people to rush to be first in even if their relatively higher SAC also means that they'll also be 'First Up', and then end up cooling their heels for a half hour and give dirty looks to the mellow greybeard who was forced to go in last and does his 'allowed' 60 minutes.

Not really sure that this is something that any DM has really ever come up with a brief Politically Correct statement to make in a dive briefing to encourage the proverbial air hog Type A's to reconsider jumping in first which won't potentially hurt the DIve OP's customer satisfaction or staff tips.



-hh

PS: I just got a newsworthy phone call ... Reef Divers on the Brac is now operating.

[BDSC]

And while a "First In, Last Out" (FILO) strategy can add 10-15 minutes, its not possible for everyone to use a "FILO" strategy. It doesn't help that it is human nature for many people to rush to be first in even if their relatively higher SAC also means that they'll also be 'First Up', and then end up cooling their heels for a half hour and give dirty looks to the mellow greybeard who was forced to go in last and does his 'allowed' 60 minutes..........PS: I just got a newsworthy phone call ... Reef Divers on the Brac is now operating.

You are right on with the FILO strategy. I do uw video so when possible, I like to be one of the first in. That way I have the possibility of getting in some good video before things might get stirred up or scared off. And like you said, you may be able to get in an extra few minutes if you SAC rate is good.

When I was there in May, during the first couple of days, I would be the first in. So on the third day I decided to hold back a little in case others wanted to get in first although it seemed as if no one really did the first two days. So me and my buddy waited, and waited, and waited. Finally we go ahead and get to the back of the boat and go in. After a couple of minutes we see others headed down. It was a little older crowd on the boat (me included) and I guess everyone was moving a little slow.

Good to hear Reef Divers on Brac is back open! Another great operation.

[TCDiver1]

I've done both and each has their good points depending on what you are looking for. The biggest positive imo for LCBR is the extra room you get. Little Cayman is a little island but it's not nearly as small as the boat. You get an obnoxious individual or two and it can make boat life more "challenging" to enjoy to say the least. Easier to get away from that land based. Boat life can get pretty tight and spartan.

I agree with the others on the biggest downside of land based ops. It's easier to dive your guts out on liveaboards when compared to most land based operations. Liveaboard is the only way to go if you want max dives and bottom time

Boats can have their issues to. I had one liveaboard where they were having problems with the bilge or something. My room smelled like a sewer the whole week, it wasn't pleasant. Last time i had to deal with a smell like that i was getting paid to it and not paying for it. It didn't wreck the dive week but it certainly didn't leave it smelling like a rose either. Never had that problem with a land based operation.

[keyshunter]

Just to add to my post, you can do your own thing when diving at LCBR except for the time allowed that is. On the first two dives of the day we had a 60 minute time limit and then another 60 minute time limit for the afternoon dive. For me, an hour on a dive is plenty. Also, you didn't have to follow a DM around at all. You can if you want or you can go off and do your own thing. They have no problem at all with that.

At LCBR the first dive of the day is always 50 minutes with 110' max depth. The second and third dives of the day are always 60 minutes with 60' max. The DM's are only too happy to have people do their own thing, provided they stay within the above profiles.

[BDSC]

At LCBR the first dive of the day is always 50 minutes with 110' max depth. The second and third dives of the day are always 60 minutes with 60' max. The DM's are only too happy to have people do their own thing, provided they stay within the above profiles.

In general you are correct. However, when we were there back in May, after the first day one of the folks on board went to the dive manager and complained that 50 minutes of bottom time on the first dive was not adequate. (They were staying pretty shallow) So they decided to let both morning dives be 60 minute dives. We just left the dock about 10 minutes earlier than normal as I remember.

[keyshunter]

-hh,
I saw that Brac Reef Divers was running their boats last week for the Dive Pirate Handicapped group. The resort rebuild seems to be dragging along pretty slowly, however. Mr. T told me that he was "hopeful" that they would be open by December.

[keyshunter]

BDSC,
I'm glad you clarified that since a 60 minute first dive is not the norm. In fact, last week I witnessed a few harsh words between the DM's and 2 divers who decided to extend the first dive (I believe it was about 65 minutes) on their own. The rest of the divers, particularly the ones who were fifo were not happy either.

[BDSC]

BDSC,
I'm glad you clarified that since a 60 minute first dive is not the norm. In fact, last week I witnessed a few harsh words between the DM's and 2 divers who decided to extend the first dive (I believe it was about 65 minutes) on their own. The rest of the divers, particularly the ones who were fifo were not happy either.

Actually, the guy who complained ended up being a real PIA. All he did was complain all week about everything. He wouldn't let any of the DM touch his stuff and bring him the BC to the back of the boat. He ended up having a few words with a couple of other folks on the boat and he was then told in no uncertain terms that if he wanted to keep diving that week he needed to cool it quickly.

The thing is, he was a TRIP LEADER for some other folks! Even they got tired of him. In the end it all worked out OK and he did calm down some. Especially when one of his own group got on his case in front of the rest of the boat.

I felt kinda sorry for the DM's because they are really great and work so hard for everyone to have a good time but we didn't let him ruin the trip for us, the others, or the DM's.

[jdcpa]

I probably met that group leader about four years ago in LC. From a southern state?

I am not familiar with the FILO strategy. I have always thought was that 60 minutes was 60 minutes.

If someone goes off first and waits until everyone else gets back, isn't that person making everyone else wait on them? Shouldn't they have been back in 60 minutes?

I did not think the point was to come as close to using the air as much as possible. I thought the point was that you had a 60 minute dive limit. Yes, I know that sometimes because several people are trying to come in that you may go over.

Why do the rules apply to everyone except the one that goes off first. What about a SILO strategy? Second in and last out? What if you just beat me off the boat? Where does the last out strategy end?

Planning to be the first in and last out seems to be inconsiderate to me. That seems to make the day longer for everyone.

What am I missing or don't understand?

TIA

[BDSC]

I probably met that group leader about four years ago in LC. From a southern state?

If I remember correctly, the guy was from Jersey. Not sure where in Jersey though.

I am not familiar with the FILO strategy. I have always thought was that 60 minutes was 60 minutes.

You are right. 60 minutes is 60 minutes. But people do this all the time to get in a few extra minutes.

If someone goes off first and waits until everyone else gets back, isn't that person making everyone else wait on them?

Not really. As long as you are back by the time the last person or last group is back.


Planning to be the first in and last out seems to be inconsiderate to me. That seems to make the day longer for everyone.

It would be inconsiderate if, in fact, you do come in past your 60 minutes and everyone else is already back and waiting on you. And there is always a chance that if the first person takes 65 minutes but still makes it back before all the others, someone will know or find out and then say, "Well so and so took more time. Why can't I" and it starts snowballing from there.

It usually does not end up being a big deal unless someone really abuses the time limitations.

[jdcpa]

My thought was that if they went in first on the first dive, and came out last, then you would not only make the others wait for them to come back, but they would also have to wait for them to wait for their surface interval to end and that would add time too. Probably would not add more than 10 minutes or so to the morning and a little less to the afternoon.

Assuming the second in does not want to do the same, and the third in does not want to do the same and so on.

I know people do it, but it seems the ones that do it assume the rules apply only to others.

It is certainly not a big deal to me, because if it is that important to others that they get a longer than requested dive time I say go ahead. I know they are being inconsiderate, but I will wait on them. The scenery is great, it just cuts into my "get away" time. Plus it makes the dive staff day longer.

No big deal.

[BDSC]

Assuming the second in does not want to do the same, and the third in does not want to do the same and so on.


And that is the key. Once you let a few bend the rules then where/when do you stop it. So the best thing to do is just have everyone abide by the same rules. I find most people/divers are pretty reasonable and really don't mind doing what is asked of them.

I never found myself going past the 60 minute limit at LC because the food was so awesome I couldn't wait to get back to eat!

[jdcpa]

I agree!!

[carriemak]

I second that!

[Nesher]

Hey TCdamsel:

Nesher here!! Just returned last night from Grand Cayman and dove both the East End and the North Areas.

Here's my suggestion: If you want to dive four or more times a day and see more variety of sites try the Aggressor. It's not always a sure thing that the Aggressor will make it to the Sister Islands due to the crossing at some point being difficult.

I've heard nothing but good things about the Cayman Aggressor. Had I not dove Little Cayman before it would be a logical choice for me.

But if you want to have an exceptional dive trip; get in at least three dives a day, dive your own profile within the limits imposed, and still have a very relaxed and highly enjoyable time? I'd go with Little Cayman.

I think you know I am partial to the Cayman Islands, but I think Little Cayman is the best of them all so far.