Getting another speargun, what options am I overlooking?

Long post so apologies to start with. Between the father, brother, and I we currently have 2 guns:
1. AB Biller 42", two grooves, 5/16 shaft, pigtail-type shock cord
2. Riffe standard series, 55", regular mono chord
Looking to get a good snorkeling-type or smaller fish gun, more in the neighborhood of the Biller in size than the Riffe, maybe phasing out the Biller in 2-man dives if we like whatever setup we decide on. Obviously when we're scuba-ing, the Riffe is the grouper/cobia/anything else of size gun and the Biller is for snapper/hogs or the snorkeling gun. I really like the quality of the Riffe (suprising huh?) but the Biller over the years has had some issues, chiefly having to ram the crap out of the shaft into the trigger mechanism to keep it from slipping out when putting the first band on. And the two groove shaft is IMO not quick enough for those crafty mangos at any distance. So quality is definitely a consideration in our book. I was looking at the shorter midhandle Riffes but the mono shock chord thing, being slow to reload, keeps bringing me back to a closed muzzle type with the pigtail chord (I know lots of people don't like these but remember whatever gun we get, is the short range smaller fish gun, longer powerful shots are for the Riffe). And personally I'm not a freeshafting fan. I like the AB Biller Floridian because of the 3 grooves and smaller diameter shaft, but I'm pretty certain the length of even the shorter one will be too much to handle for quick turns snorkeling, I almost think the 42" is a lot at times but can't bring myself to get any shorter for power/accuracy tradeoffs. So on to the question:
Are there other closed-muzzle, lower 40's" guns (possibly midhandles?), with the capability of three bands, and perhaps 9/32 shafts? I'm still considering cutting off some of the stock from a 48" Floridian or just ordering like a 42" with the smaller diameter shaft and 3 grooves, if available. What else is there out there that I'm overlooking for the situations above? I figure some of you out there have had dozens of guns and can help me out on this one. As far as price range I'd get another Riffe, but less expensive is always welcome as well! Thanks and sorry for the post length...

Railgun.

A 37" Pelaj with a single band will kill the same fish as a 48"Biller with two. Make or buy a slightly longer band for ease of loading. I think the shafy is 7mm, and the price is about $260 before tax. You can get them with closed muzzles, but three bands would be overkill for your stated purpose. They come stock with mono, which I really don't care for, but there is only one wrap (range is twice the length of the shaft) so it's easy to reload. You can wrap it to the left or the right (same with the open muzzle). There's less "meat" to the gun, so you have less drag when swimming with it or tracking a target. I'd be trading my Biller for one right now if I wasn't so poor. It's not that I don't like the Biller, it's just that I do like the Pelaj more. I'd also bet that other railguns have similar properties, it's just that the Pelaj is the only one I've shot.

I'm calling BS on the Pelaj comment.
While it may be a good gun there is no way to overcome physics.Power is equal to band pull,diameter of bands and shaft weight.There is no way in reality to circumvent that.
I can still get parts for my 10 to 20 year old Billers and JBLs almost anywhere in the world as well.

suprasteve:

....... chiefly having to ram the crap out of the shaft into the trigger mechanism to keep it from slipping out when putting the first band on. ....

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Something is wrong. Is the trigger also hard to pull?? I'd check 3 things:

* There were a bunch of Biller style shafts that had an improper cut for the shaft catch. See the pictures below. If you have one of these shafts, you really should toss it since they can release without warning, possibly injuring a diver. They can't be fixed.

* If you are so inclined, you may want to remove and inspect the trigger mech. Or bring it to a shop that specializes in spearfishing and let them look at it. The sear may be worn or damaged. Ramming the spear into the sear will absolutely damage it. New Biller triggers are pretty economical dollarwise.

* 3 bands on a 42 with a range of 10 feet on a coil leash is alot of power. I don't know your band length nor thickness, but that much stress on the mech, again will damage the sear.

Lastly if you like the 42 Biller, why not just get another 42 Biller. You sure will have interchangable parts if out on the water and one gun breaks down.

Picture to show bad shafts:

100days-a-year:

I'm calling BS on the Pelaj comment.
While it may be a good gun there is no way to overcome physics.Power is equal to band pull,diameter of bands and shaft weight.There is no way in reality to circumvent that.
I can still get parts for my 10 to 20 year old Billers and JBLs almost anywhere in the world as well.

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I'm calling BS on the guy who's talking about a gun he's never shot.

Four things:

1. Look at the shaft on a rail gun and look at a shaft on a Biller. The Biller shaft rides through a steel ring at the end of the gun, and has more surface area pushing through the water due to the larger diameter of the tip adapter vs. the diameter of the shaft itself. Translation: You're shooting a fatter piece of steel through the water. That fatter piece of steel rubs against another piece of steel on the way out adding additional friction.
2. The bands are sized differently, though I was shooting a longer band, which I presume was not as powerful as the band that came stock on the gun, but yes, fatter bands = more power, though that is hardly the only variable.
3. Railguns don't have a butt, meaning they're 8 or so inches shorter than a wood gun from the start. The important measurement is between the muzzle and the notch in the shaft.
4. Read the OP's post. He's looking for options he has not already considered, he's looking to go shorter, but does not want to sacrifice power and accuracy, and is considering a 9/32"(7mm) shaft. In my opinion, the Pelaj meets all of his needs. Shoot the gun yourself and then you can tell us about how I'm BSing you.

alrighty guys, let's stay friendly
I do like the shock chord wrapping for that pelaj, I need to look into it and railguns in general more later. One thing I left out in the OP, the father's getting older but not giving up, just wanting things easier to use. I've already been voted down on the thicker bands on the Biller (which I like and find necessary), and when he's shooting the Riffe I have to load it... anyways he would like something easy to load. That doesn't preclude anything new but then the Biller will become the one he uses and is already rather underpowered, a third groove or thicker bands would fix that but that means a new shaft since he doesn't like the thicker bands.
And speaking of the shaft, Johnoloy do you know the measurements of the catch grooves in the pictures above? I could easily have the bad one...
As far as the 42", it has it strengths and weaknesses, enough of the latter that I'm looking into other possibilities. Not that it's bad but after the better part of a decade I've learned pretty well its shortcomings and would like to limit those in a new one. Thanks again guys!

So now putting a new name on a common gun design,the railgun... increases it's power.
FYI,I have shot rail guns big and small and they have drawbacks for older guys and others with limited mobility.Hip load guns with a cocking extension are easier to load and multiple thin bands make up for any strengths the the single band may have.Tuna guns are perfect example of multiple easy bands being used to get tremendous power.

Thinner shafts would increase speed but bend easier.

JBL has some 3 band guns in shorter sizes but Seahornet/Biller shafts can also be found.My wife is 5' nothin' and shoots a 40" JBL with multiple thin bands,it was under a $100 when we bought it.


FWIW I shoot commercially,I don't have the option of not having the absolute best gun possible for my job.I have a Biller LTD 54" and shoot a single 22"x3/4" band as I can pull the 100+ pound draw of 43"

I also freeshaft anything smaller than #100 bottom fish.It speeds up reloads and decreases drag.I keep a #400 mono loop around the back of the handle and back to the muzzle with a#350 tuna clip for attaching to lineshafts if a cobia or pelagic shows up.

100days-a-year:

So now putting a new name on a common gun design,the railgun... increases it's power.

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Nope, I'll agree 100% with that. The Pelaj is the only railgun I've shot, so that's what I talked about. I have no doubt that someone, somewhere makes a better gun, rail or otherwise.

100days-a-year:

Thinner shafts would increase speed but bend easier.

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Agreed 100%, but OP's talking about a smaller gun to shoot smaller fish.

100days-a-year:

FYI,I have shot rail guns big and small and they have drawbacks for older guys and others with limited mobility.Hip load guns with a cocking extension are easier to load and multiple thin bands make up for any strengths the the single band may have.

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Agreed 100%. The value of the single band is that it takes half the time to load.

See, we can play nice! FWIW, I really love my Biller, and would keep it around as a backup if the wife would let me