When to buy tanks?

[openhelix]

I dive with a full kit but still rent tanks. It's been tough to justify buying tanks when fills are only slightly less than renting a full tank. However a few times recently buds have called with a last minute dive invite. I couldn't go because I didn't have filled tanks in the garage ready to go.

Those of you with your own tanks... Is the convenience worth it? Do you ever wish you hadn't bought tanks?

Also, it seems like tanks are like potato chips, you can't buy just one. Diving singles you'd need at least two for a "normal" 2 dive morning... cha-ching :coffee:

[Teamcasa]

I have two AL80's I wish I never bought.
I have two steel's one HP100 I use and one H80 my lovely bride uses. They are terrific.

[Peter_C]

Having your own tanks is the best way to go. Cost effective NO! Dive efficient YES!

For a regular sized male nothing smaller than a HP100 and steel all the way. Aluminum works great for stage bottles. Two tanks should get you by...for now.

Oh and diving Nitrox is very nice, and easy to get in Monterey.

[themagni]

I've got two tanks that I bought used, both AL80s. You're correct in that you'll have to have two tanks for your typical two-dive outing. Each tank cost me $90, no tax. New, they're about $300 each, at least they are here.

You will also have to add in the cost of maintenance - the annual sticker change (vis) and the five-year hydro test. That works out to about $40 / year in maintenance costs. ($50 hydro over five years + $30 vis each year) The difference in cost between a rental tank and buying air is $3/dive here. This means that you will have to dive at least 14 times a year in order to break even on just owning the tanks, without factoring in the cost of actually acquiring the tanks themselves.

Let's assume that the tanks are good for ten years, adding an additional $30 / year. (A rough approximation - but give me a break, it's past my bedtime.) That works out to requiring 24 dives each year in order to break even financially. Some people will do that in a month. It's a logistical nightmare for me to fandangle a dive, so I tend to get in about 12 a year.

Would I buy the tanks again? Used, yes, it's a reasonable price. If I had to spend the $600 on the two tanks, then I'd have to think about it pretty carefully. I'd probably go for steel to get more air and lose some lead, but I'm not concerned enough to spend the horrifying cash required.

Owning your own tanks does require extra stops at your dive shop and requires advance planning for your dives. (I tend to fill them after a dive, but sometimes the shops aren't open and then I just plain forget to get them filled.)

[Buoyant1]

The price difference wasn't the consideration when I purchased, but the convenience of having to pick them up, and drop them off was. If I dive on the weekend, I needed to either rush back on Saturday or drop them back off Monday. If I'm ALSO diving on Wednesday night, (our local quarry does this in the summer) I have to go back Tuesday, to pick them up for Wednesday, THEN drop them back off again Thursday (to avoid "late" fees) Having my own, On a Saturday, I can still stop by on my way home after the dive to get them filled (or not) OR get them filled wherever I'm diving (both local quarries have fill stations) If I'm NOT diving the weekend (and diving Wednesday evenings only) I have two filled, so I use one THIS Wednesday, and the other NEXT Wednesday, and don't need to stop in the shop but once every two weeks. With the crazieness of my normal evenings, that's a HUGE consideration! Also, if you rented, and arrived at the dive site, then for some reason the dive was called, you STILL have a tank full of air to dive with another day (and don't blow the rental fee).

I also like having them to take with me when we go to Florida since a lot of operators DON'T have anything more than al80's, and to me that's not enough of a contingency for a deeper dive.

Yeah, I though about the VIP and hydro costs, but the convenience benefits seem to outweigh the monetary issue. (plus, if I ever decide to double them....)

[guamguy]

Owning your own tanks is nice. I have one, a steel HP80. It is my wife's, but I tend to keep it filled and ready to go. She liked the smaller size of the tank, so I got her one for valentine's day:)
I wish I would have just got her an HP100, it's still smaller than an AL80. Then I would have more justification to buy one for myself. It's still a big chunk of change, but you can't beat the convenience factor.

[NorthWoodsDiver]

I own almost 20 tanks for my own use, in various sizes from the tiny 6 for argon to aluminum 80's and steel 72's.

aluminum 80's and steel 72's make great sidemount tanks and they are considerably cheaper than the larger steels. If money wasn't an issue hp100's would be nice to own though.

Most of mine were used except my first 4 80's and my 3 al40's. Everything else was used and I splurged and put all new DIN valves on each tank but its still worth owning IMHO.

[Rhone Man]

Cost effective NO! Dive efficient YES!

That pretty much sums it all up in six words.

[Paladin]

Where I live, a Catalina AL80 can be purchased new for about $160, yearly inspection is $10-$15 and fills are $5-$8. Tank rentals are around $10.

[ONESPEED]

Those of you with your own tanks... Is the convenience worth it?

Yes


Do you ever wish you hadn't bought tanks?

No


Also, it seems like tanks are like potato chips, you can't buy just one. Diving singles you'd need at least two for a "normal" 2 dive morning... cha-ching :coffee:

I have nine that are always filled with various mixes so I'm ready for any dive when that last minute call arrives.

[Scoobers]

I just bought 2 tanks this year after renting for the last 2 and yes they are worth it. One trip to the dive shop instead of 2. I can go whenever I want without having to worry about the LDS business hours. I also am trying to dive as much as possible this year which will make the savings add up.

[GrumpyOldGuy]

Strictly convienence. Instead of a mandatory trip before and after the dive outing, I make only 1 trip to the LDS for fills during the week when I want to and also have time to chat with the owner and/or run and do some other business. My time and the cost of driving are a factor. Plus the ability to toss all my gear in the car had head out diving on 10 minutes notice when a good weekend without other commitments (or canceled commitments) shows up.

I currently keep 6 AL80 for 3 divers in the family. Not the best tank, but cheap and it matches what I rent when traveling.

[reo]

To answer the first questions--yes, it is worth it to have your own tanks. I have never regretted buying my tanks. Since I bought my own tanks, I dive more often than before I had my own tanks. There are some instances where having your own tanks is much better than renting:

If you're interested in going after bugs during mini season in Florida, having your own tanks is a must. Rentals are often sold out for mini season.

I get my tank filled right after diving and have them ready to go for whenever I have a chance to go diving. It is especially convenient when I do a mid-week night dive. I don't have to use my lunch hour the next day to return the rental tanks.

Having your own tanks also allows you to get the best tanks for you, whether it be smaller tanks if you're a smaller person, or larger tanks if you need more air.

Also, you can get tanks with the buoyancy characteristics that fit your needs.

Bottom line--if you have your own tanks, you will dive more.

Ron

[dave4868]

Having your own tanks is the best way to go. Cost effective NO! Dive efficient YES!

For a regular sized male nothing smaller than a HP100 and steel all the way. Aluminum works great for stage bottles. Two tanks should get you by...for now.

Oh and diving Nitrox is very nice, and easy to get in Monterey.

Very true!

However, cost effectiveness isn't hard to achieve if one buys used tanks, since the resale value is usually very stable.

Also, fill costs can be quite low with club memberships or other promotions. I'm paying $3.50 for each fill (HP120), the half-price benefit of club membership at my LDS.

Good point about larger tanks. Having more time in the water is very important to me, since my logistics are substantial. I hate the thought of getting only a couple hours in the water for 8 hours of logistics.... :D

That brings up the advantage of having a third tank for a three-tank day..... or a fourth tank to allow consecutive two-tank days.... Heck, I used to have 12 tanks to allow for diving camping trips out of the range of fill stations.... (I'm down to just 6 tanks now, since I'm not doing those trips anymore. :shakehead:)

Then there's the drysuit to get even more time in the water.... :shocked2:

In terms of cost per hour in the water, they were all worth it to me! :)

Dave C

[FlyinV]

I live 2.5 to 3 hours away from decent diving.
The shops here all seem to have steel 80s and a random 100 at times.

I bought steel 100s and talked one of my regular dive buddy into getting these also :)
So our dives are about 20% longer then we would have with rental tanks.

Plus I never have to be the one to call a dive on air when I dive with an 80 and I like how the 100s trim me out.

Its a win all around :)
The market for used tanks seems strong so I am sure if I wanted to sell them or had to sell them I could get some good resale out of them -- unlike a lot of other scuba gear.

[TropicRat]

Tanks are also not just for for diving. Get an air hose fitting so you can fill car, trailer or bike tires- don't forget filling a matress or rafts, floats ....etc.

Also get a spray nozzle and you have compressed air to clean parts, filters, list goes on.....

Our LDS has fitted out a buddy so he can use an assortment of pneumatic tools for small jobs without the need for a compressor.

[NWGratefulDiver]

Two significant considerations ...

1. How often do I dive?
2. How long have I been diving?

The answer to the first will help you determine whether or not it's cost-effective. If you plan to dive on a regular (a few times a month, at least) basis, then purchasing tanks is a good idea ... not only from a convenience standpoint but also in the long run it'll cost you less money.

The answer to the second will help you determine what size tanks you want to buy. New divers tend to base their purchases either on how quickly they go through their air, or on the typical profiles of the dives they do. Both of those tend to change rather rapidly for the developing diver. In order to make an informed choice of what tanks are right for you, it's best to get some dives under your weightbelt and let both of those variables settle out a bit first.

Also keep in mind that once you own tanks you will have to store them and maintain them.

And tanks are more like rabbits than potato chips ... you'll start with two, and rather quickly end up with 10 ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

[JDMerk]

Bottom line--if you have your own tanks, you will dive more.

Ron

BINGO!

I don't regret buying my own cylinders at all...but I wish I had the foresight to go straight to steel. I own two HP100s, two AL80s and one AL19. They all stay charged up and ready to go. However my Al80s hardly ever leave the garage any more...I have plans for them though.:D

[elan]

It was very economical option for me. After diving 4 month I would spend more money on renting them that I have spent buying my 2 HP100 in the beginning. Last week I have bought one more tank Al80 after I rented one 4 times as my 2 HP100 were not enough. If you take into account more trips you have to make to LDS (it's 1 hour round trip for me), the fact that you have to be back by 6pm on Saturday to return it. It all adds up pretty quickly. Al 80 are pretty cheap and I can get any profile I dive on air.

[OldNSalty]

If you can afford the initial cost and you have all your gear then yes, buy them. I bought 2 AL80's about 15-20 years ago and they are still going strong. It is well worth it, cheap to keep up. The only problem is that you'll want to buy more...Like I think I need 6 more tanks and I should be set...for awhile.

[Kingpatzer]

Those of you with your own tanks... Is the convenience worth it? Do you ever wish you hadn't bought tanks?


Absolutely it is worth it. I can go anytime I want and never have to worry if a shop is open and has free tanks for a last minute rental.

For me it also makes financial sense, my local shop sells 'fill cards,' that give volume discounts on fills. I save about $4 a fill by going that route, and that is about $8 less than a tank rental. It doesn't take but 20 dives to make up the price of a single tank, and I make many times that number of dives in an average year. Since tanks last for basically forever if taken care of properly, it's fairly clear I'm coming out ahead.

[piikki]

I dive with a full kit but still rent tanks. It's been tough to justify buying tanks when fills are only slightly less than renting a full tank.

Those of you with your own tanks... Is the convenience worth it? Do you ever wish you hadn't bought tanks?

Also, it seems like tanks are like potato chips, you can't buy just one.

I bought first own tanks month after getting certified. I've since sold those tanks but have 14 tanks in the household, no regrets. I would not go back to renting.

I don't know how much your shops charge for rentals and gas but even in the cheapest shop here rentals are double the amount of a fill. And rental doubles every time you are late. And shops aren't open every day - particularly they aren't open on Sunday here which is PRIME diving day. If I am late returning a rental tank, I will pay for two day's rental (usually it's more than one person's tanks too), price goes up quickly. I hate it when I had a nice day of diving and I have to rush on the road to get fills. I would hate it even more if there was a pressure that I will have an extra $40-80 to pay because I was late.

I dive a lot, it made all the sense in the world to get own tanks the moment I realized I will be diving every weekend. I know people who did the same thing I did, and now have expensive tanks sitting in their basement because their every-weekend diving ended after the first month... I certainly think tanks are not the first thing to own.

You pay for the convenience of having own tanks but if you really do dive a lot you gotta have your own tanks. If you continue to dive, they pay themselves back in no time. And no, there is no sense buying one.

[Clammy]

I think everyone is in agreement. No one here regrets buying their tanks. They may regret buying a specific tank but no one regrets not having to rent. How much is your time worth? Is it convenient to run around to pickup and drop off tanks before and after a dive?
I have 2 HP100s and 1 HP130 and I'll be getting 2-4 more HP100 tanks to double up and 2 to leave at a friends place 400 miles north where I dive frequently as well.

It's nice to always dive the same tanks so you trim out the same each time. It's nice to know that the tanks are good because you keep the maintenance schedule up. It's nice to have pre-filled tanks lying around just in case of that mid afternoon during work phone call for a night dive after work or the midnight call to dive early the next morning.

The price hurts initially but you will soon forget about it while you're underwater!!!

[ligersandtions]

Most of the dive shops around here rent only Al80's....I'm not a fan of aluminum tanks and much prefer steels. In addition, I like to have a lot more gas available so I can do two dives on one tank for the most part (depending on the site and the profile, of course)....I dive HP130's (single HP130's) and absolutely do not regret the purchase. I have three tanks (I share one with my hubby but he doesn't dive nearly as much as I do, so they're all mine for the most part! ;)).

When we first bought the tanks, I made a spreadsheet that showed the initial investment, how much we would save with fills versus renting tanks, VIP and hydro's, and how many dives it would take to break even....it was totally worth it. If we haven't made up for the initial investment yet, we've definitely made up for it in the fact that HP130's >>>> Al80's! :D

[D_B]

Sold my AL80 soon after getting my steel HP100, then purchased another 100 when the LDS had a " at this price you have to buy me " sale ... look around and be aware of what good prices are for the tank you want .. and be patient , you may end up with a deal

[mike_s]

If you want tanks... now is the time to buy them.

when LDS's have to re-order aluminum 80's, you're about to see a big price increase.


(and steel tanks aren't gonna get any cheaper, unless you run on a deal of several years into hydro tanks for sale).

[D_B]

Dunno .. I got a smok'n deal at the LDS sale on a current hydro Worthington, at less than I payed for one several years ago, and that price then was much less than $300 US
I have no idea why they were so low this time around

[elan]

For me it also makes financial sense, my local shop sells 'fill cards,' that give volume discounts on fills.

+1, I have bought cards for 2 tanks and now my fills go at $3 per tank. By the end of the season they will be $1 if I go at this pace :D

[sharkbitejeff]

Anytime that you rent anything you are throwing your money out the window.

[tedj101]

>>I also like having them to take with me when we go to Florida since a lot of operators DON'T have anything more than al80's, and to me that's not enough of a contingency for a deeper dive.<<

This sounds like a great idea - but how do you get them down to FL?

<TED>

[mike_s]

>>I also like having them to take with me when we go to Florida since a lot of operators DON'T have anything more than al80's, and to me that's not enough of a contingency for a deeper dive.<<

me too





This sounds like a great idea - but how do you get them down to FL?


http://tbn2.google.com/images?q=tbn:M-ouv_-53Bo_9M:http://www.newarabia.net/images/cars/Chevrolet_Tahoe.jpg

[tedj101]

Yeah, but you live in the Southeast. The OP lives quite close to me. While he could be driving, I don't get enough time off to make that work all the way to FL so I fly. Flying tanks just doesn't work for me...

<TED>

[ruready7]

I have 2-AL80, 2-HP100, 2-HP120, 1-LP108, and 1-40. I have not regretted buyin my tanks. Makes it sure that I go diving.

[GrandpaScuba]

I have steel tanks. I feel that for the average diver with average physique, the steel 100 is the best all-around work-horse tank. But steel is expensive and takes more maintenance. If cost is an issue, there is absolutely nothing wrong with aluminum tanks. They are definitely less expensive, an AL80 is a reasonable size for most people. Maintenance is much less since aluminum corrosion is self-limiting, unlike rust that just keeps rotting away at the material.

I had aluminum from 1980 to about 1991, then I switched to DIN and HP steel 100's. My friend, with whom I've been diving since 1989, has always had aluminum.

If you get aluminum, get the new "natural finish" aluminum. It's a much better finish than painted.

[JDMerk]

If you get aluminum, get the new "natural finish" aluminum. It's a much better finish than painted.

I have to disagree...while it may seem petty the natural finish is absolutely the worst finish to get on an AL cylinder. We have a dozen or so in our rental fleet (along with many painted and brushed cylinders) and have not been able to get a VIP sticker to adhere to one for more than a month. The porous texture of the tank just doesn't work well with the adhesive on the stickers. The painted and brushed AL80's don't have this issue.
I would go brushed if you are worried about the look of the cylinder holding up on an AL80.
After all...what the point in having your own cylinders if you cant get anybody to fill it. (because the VIP floated away)

[GrandpaScuba]

I have to disagree...while it may seem petty the natural finish is absolutely the worst finish to get on an AL cylinder. We have a dozen or so in our rental fleet (along with many painted and brushed cylinders) and have not been able to get a VIP sticker to adhere to one for more than a month. ...
Maybe you need to find a different source of stickers. All of our rental tanks are the natural finish and we don't have any problem with the stickers.

[JDMerk]

We use standard PADI and PSI visual stickers...as I said our stickers work fine on all other finishes.
We've had tons of problems attaching anything with adhesive to these tanks...VIP's, tape, wraps...etc.
If your stickers work on the finish that's fantastic, but why introduce a potential future problem for a cool looking cylinder finish?

[Sas]

Those of you with your own tanks... Is the convenience worth it?

Yes definitely. It was also cost effective for me too to buy tanks given it costs about $20-25 to hire the tanks. I have a Steel 10.5L and a Steel 12.2L (here rental tanks are generally steel 12.2s). I cannot remember what the Steel 10 was as I got it with all my other gear but the 12.2L was 399AUD (or 315USD). So I only needed to hire a tank, say 26 times (400/15 as fills are $5) before breaking even and I have done that easily.



Do you ever wish you hadn't bought tanks?

No, actually I wish I had bought my second tank earlier as I spent about $250 over a year in renting out a second tank...



Also, it seems like tanks are like potato chips, you can't buy just one. Diving singles you'd need at least two for a "normal" 2 dive morning... cha-ching :coffee:

Yes. I find myself wishing I had three tanks sometimes ;) as generally I do two dives on the weekend and have to return to the shop after the first to get the tank refilled so I have it ready for a midweek dive. (Shop is generally shut after I do the second dive of the weekend). I can't get fills midweek due to work. Over summer it was even more of a pain as I would do three dives on a weekend day...

I'll be moving on to doubles eventually, and getting a stage as well so lots of tank purchases in my future too...

[Scarface777]

I am completely new to this so... bare with me a minute...

I use a mark 25 reg... 5'10'' 200lbs and large lung capacity. Freshwater I only use 4lbs weight with al80

Can you give me time differences between the hp80 hp100 and hp130? Will it over weight me in fresh water? Do you have problems with building up too much nitrogen since you are down longer?

All of this is new to me so any help is appreciated.

[Graeme Tolton]

I don't add up my costs of diving. That way, I don't have to justify anything. There are many times that owning a tank makes the difference of being able to make a dive or not make a dive, the closest LDS from me is now 45 mins away. Also, not all of the dive locations I go to have shops. AL80's are ok for everyone, but not perfect for many people. MOST places, that is all that you are going to rent. I have a couple of hp119's. They are great for the deeper dives because I have a good reserve capacity. They are even better for shallow dives, because I can generally get 2 dives on 1 fill.

[Sprocket]

I managed to pick up 3 HP steel tanks in a "garage sale" when A lady was selling off all her ex husband's toys for $60 for the lot. Unfortunately they're all odd sizes, so it means I'll need to buy at least one more to make a set of doubles.

Whether it makes economical sense to fork out the cash for tanks or not is questionable (I think our LDS charges $5 for tank hire on top of the fill, the cheapest I can get a faber steelie new for is about $300 - 400 and then I need to get it hydro'ed every year at $40 - 50). However, I much prefer diving my HP steel tanks to the AL95's the shop hires.

[mike_s]

Can you give me time differences between the hp80 hp100 and hp130?

time all depends on depth and your air consumption rate. Assuming that you stay at the same depth the entire time, the HP130 will give you 30% longer bottom time than an HP100.



Freshwater I only use 4lbs weight with al80

Will it over weight me in fresh water?

It depends. All depends on the tank, your body, your gear and your buoyancy characteristics/thickness of your wetsuit. my HP100's for example allow me to take about 4 to 6 pounds of weight off. in fresh water I just dive with no weight (with a 2mm shorty or a 3mm. with my 5mm, maybe I wear a little weight). In saltwater I need a few pounds of weight.

I doubt it'll overweight you more than a few pounds in freshwater, and prob not at all in salt water. but that's just my opinion. you have to do what works best for you.




Do you have problems with building up too much nitrogen since you are down longer?

Yes.

You have to be aware of it and not over do your NDL (No Decompression Limits) based on nitrogen loading.

most people who dive HP130's are typically diving it with Nitrox, which changes some of the nitrogen loading. gives you more NDL time. (depenind on mix and depth).

If you get a HP130, you'll want to take the Nitrox class. (actually it's a good class to take regardless of the size tank you buy).

hope that helps... -Mike

[openhelix]

Thanks for all the replies. For better or worse I want tanks even more! Anyone have a pair of HP100s in current hydro they want to get rid of? ;)

[halocline]

I am completely new to this so... bare with me a minute...

I use a mark 25 reg... 5'10'' 200lbs and large lung capacity. Freshwater I only use 4lbs weight with al80

Can you give me time differences between the hp80 hp100 and hp130? Will it over weight me in fresh water? Do you have problems with building up too much nitrogen since you are down longer?

All of this is new to me so any help is appreciated.

Given those numbers, you will be overweighted with most steel tanks. In terms of figuring time, it's just linear. 77cf is 77% of the air in a 100cft cylinder. If you get a HP100, consider the faber FX100, it's the least negative of the HP100s. LP85s are neutral empty, so that would be a good one for you in terms of weighting, and if you can get an overfill you'll have a larger capacity tank.

Being a little overweighted is not that big a deal, but once you start getting more than a few lbs over, it's not fun and eventually can be dangerous.

[mike_s]

If you get a HP100, consider the faber FX100, it's the least negative of the HP100s. L.


I've got the FX100's and I'm happy with them, but if you have to pay the same money for a Worthington X7-100, I'd buy it. It's got a better valve and a better finish on it than the FX100.

As for buoyancy characteristics compared to the FX100, they are close enough as not to be a concern.


The Faber tanks I'd stay away from are the true HP100's that are 3180psi + 10%. Those are 14 pounds negative when full. (of course if you're diving a drysuit, you might want that extra negative weight. so they have their place for some folks).

[Sinbad the Diver]

My LDS offers a 10 fill card with the purchase of a tank. I bought a set of al80s and since the cost of renting 10 tanks is the same as buying 1 and getting it filled 10 times free my cost is equal for the first 10....after 10 dives I've cut the cost of air from $18 to $5 per dive and I have the convenience.

[tk trekers]

One of my LDS's made me such a great deal on AL80 tanks that I bought all 6 that they had in stock. I was looking to buy 2 used tanks and I asked about the cost of hydros and the owner made me the deal on the new ones that I could not pass up. I'm in a dive club that gives us free air fills so mine will quickly pay for themselves. I do see myself going to some steel tanks at some point but for now and the price I paid, the AL80's I have are just fine!

[Brian Sharpe]

My LDS makes owning tanks very attractive. When I bought mine the price included 100 free fills (air or nitrox) - pretty much a no brainer. He's since raised his price for fills so new buyers only get 66 free fills - still pretty much a no brainer for the convenience of having your tanks ready to go on a moments notice.

[mike_s]

My LDS makes owning tanks very attractive. When I bought mine the price included 100 free fills (air or nitrox) - pretty much a no brainer. He's since raised his price for fills so new buyers only get 66 free fills - still pretty much a no brainer for the convenience of having your tanks ready to go on a moments notice.



that's a sweet deal. almost makes the tank free.

I've always thought deals like that were smart for the LDS. why? because it makes the customer come back and back for so called "free" fills, where he buys another $20 to $200 (or more ) in accessories.

[fisheater]

I'm going to disagree with the "not cost effective" consensus, at least as it would apply to me.

If I figure in the gas cost of the extra trips I would have to take to pick up rental tanks (figuring that drop off and refill trips would equal out), I think that it's pretty even.

However, I just LOVE the convenience of being able to go diving whenever my schedule and conditions allow. Plus, there are very few steel tanks available for rental here in the North Coast area of California.

In short, I have absolutely no regrets having bought my tanks, and early on in my diving career, too.

[openhelix]

Need to pay for my trip to Roatan next month first but I think you guys have me convinced! Man, my credit card company is going to LOVE me!

[Clammy]

Need to pay for my trip to Roatan next month first but I think you guys have me convinced! Man, my credit card company is going to LOVE me!

Mine certainly does. x_X

[D_B]

Need to pay for my trip to Roatan next month first but I think you guys have me convinced! Man, my credit card company is going to LOVE me!


Mine certainly does. x_X
I know mine already does
... and Heaven help me if the LDS has a sale on HP130's :shocked2:

[rstofer]

I am completely new to this so... bare with me a minute...

I use a mark 25 reg... 5'10'' 200lbs and large lung capacity. Freshwater I only use 4lbs weight with al80

Can you give me time differences between the hp80 hp100 and hp130?


Just work it out roughly based on what you get out of an Al 80


Will it over weight me in fresh water?


Absolutely! You need 4# of weight to sink the Al 80 tank that's 4# positive at the end of the dive. That's just what you are wearing. So, basically, other than the tank, you are neutral. An HP 100 is 2.5# negative at the end of the dive and 10.5# negative at the start of the dive. So, if you don't wear any weight at all, you will still be around 2.5# negative at the end of the dive. Worse, you won't be wearing any ditchable weight so rescue will be more complicated.



Do you have problems with building up too much nitrogen since you are down longer?


NDLs are what they are. If you dive deep, you can't stay long. One answer to staying a little longer is to use Nitrox. It can dramatically increase your allowable bottom time.

Richard

[rollerboi]

I need a new credit card that the wife doesn't know about. :D

[openhelix]

I need a new credit card that the wife doesn't know about. :D

Agreed! I did the math today and figuring the difference between renting tanks and just a fill (of your own tanks) is around $7/tank/day. That means at roughly $700 for two HP100s/120s. Figuring 2 dives per day locally, 2 days diving per "trip" that's 4 "fills" per trip saving $28/trip. $700/$28 means tanks pay for themselves in roughly 25 trips... Given I'm <90min from Monterey that's not unreasonable in a year or less.

So, the financials make a lot more sense than I thought... Now to convince my LDS to give me free fills for buying tanks from them and cut that ROI number! :crafty:

[TaoH]

I bought a pair of Worthington HP100s about 2 years ago from Any Water Sports in San Jose and they gave me a free air fill card per tank (that means 2 air fill cards). I'm not sure if they would have given me a Nitrox card as I wasn't certified for it at the time and didn't want to play with Nitrox when I didn't know everything about it. Each fill card comes with 10 fills.

I bought them on a whim because I was actually going to rent a pair of HP100s for a weekend. Having rented tanks so many times in the preceding months of buying them, I was able to try Steel 72, 80, 95; HP 80, 100. After going through that many tanks, I found that I liked the HP80s for being compact and lightweight and for leisure paced dives, it was enough air to finish a dive with several hundred PSI left on a proper fill. The HP100 gives me extended bottom time and it doesn't bother me so much to use a slightly larger tank; I'm often left with 1200~1400PSI of air at the end of a leisure dive unless I take a faster pace, dive solo, or dive with someone that has similar SAC rates. On a short fill or when filling from a station that doesn't support HP pressures, I should still have at least 79+ cu-ft of air; close enough to the 80 for the typical dive whereas the HP80 would have about ~65 cu-ft on the LP fill (I've forgotten what my calculations concluded).

I also liked not having to rush to the shop to pickup and return tanks around a weekend. It's not very convenient as I have to wait for the shop to open before the beginning of the weekend and then rush to the shop after work on Mondays before they close to make it before being overdue.

[halocline]

Worse, you won't be wearing any ditchable weight so rescue will be more complicated.


This is an absolutely false statement. First, you have no way of determining what would or would not "complicate" any particular rescue scenario. Second, typical rescue procedures (well, PADI) for an unconscious diver at depth are to not ditch weights unless the victim is so overweighted that you can't get him/her off the bottom. This would not apply to properly weighted divers. Ditching weights is for the surface.

The statement is also misleading in that it implies that not diving with ditchable weights is unsafe. This is simply not true. Accidental weight loss at depth is common, and that's an increased risk of ditchable weight. You have to balance that with whatever risk of not being able to easily get positive at the surface is increased by not having ditchable weights.

It's a far more complex issue that to just say "no ditchable weights complicates rescue."

[rstofer]

Any way you cut it, the first step upon surfacing is to get the victim positively buoyant. There are a number of possibilities but ditching their weight is preferred because it is fast. If the victim doesn't have ditchable weight, some other method is required. One might be to ditch the rig. But that means the victim, if still breathing, won't be breathing from their regulator. Maybe air sharing works but ditching the rig eliminates the tank tow. Maybe their BC/wing still works - who knows? I consider this complicating the rescue.

I don't think I mentioned ditching weights at depth although that could be required. That isn't usually done but there is the possibility that a single wing won't lift two divers off the bottom. My 30# wing is just such a device. I wear 20# of weight, 6# backplate and my tank is 10# negative at the start of the dive I must have 6# of lift in my compressed wetsuit or I have to swim it up. However, should a victim have a similar configuration and a blown wing, there is no way I can lift them off the bottom. Unless there is a way to ditch something, one of us isn't coming up. A self-rescue without a lift bag or SMB might be out of the question. Even ditching 20# of weight would still leave me 10# negative on the bottom - if I have 6# of lift from my wetsuit.

All in, I am a fan of ditchable weight even to the extent of adding foam flotation to the rig to force the requirement. I was taught that ditchable weight is a good thing and I still believe it. I suggest that every diver look at their tank buoyancy and weighting and then think in terms of getting positive at the surface without a bladder. This will be difficult for warm water divers with steel tanks and trivial for cold water wetsuit divers using a single tank. Doubles present another issue...

Richard

[jlw]

I bought my tanks because they suited my style of diving and gave me a consistency in weighting and equipment that I didn't get with rental tanks. I bought a Steel 78 over 10 years ago. Its great and let me take some weight out of my pockets. I didn't have the issue of different AL80s coming at me with each rental. Fills were free on the boats, for the most part, and I'd take 1 tank of air with me. I did a lot more shore diving and the 78 was a good size.

Now I do a lot more boat diving and a BP + HP100 get a lot more weight out of my pockets and into a better place on my back. I've as much to more air and while that doesn't mean I stay down longer, it means i come back with a huge 1100-1400psi margin for error.

[ocala diver]

I used to rent tanks when I first got certified. Then one day I was in my LDS and noticed 4 used AL80 tanks for sale. Inquired about them and found out they were the owners tanks. He wanted $80/tank and said he'd thrown in free lifetime air. I picked them up and got free air for quite a while until I moved. Wish he had a store local to me.

I think having tanks ready to go whenever you want is worth it. Renting tanks became a hassle after a while, IMO.

[cruiser]

You buy your own tanks when your LDS's one-year free tank rental and free air runs out (usually a year after buying your equipment from them).

[SCUBA482]

So far I own one AL80. I just bought all my gear new and maybe I'm weird, but I prefer to own my own stuff so I know how it's been taken care of for reliability reasons. Maybe not a huge concern with a tank, but either way it was only an extra $130 or so. Besides, I plan on diving more than 12 times per year for sure and want the flexibility to have some tanks on my boat ready in case I decide to jump in and check things out. Also, if I don't want to use my own tank (i.e. while traveling) I still have the rental option available. Guess it just opens up a few more doors if the moderate to minimal expense is not of concern to you.

[Road Guy]

okay dumb questions, how long is it "good" to keep air in the tanks?

I recently went diving with a friend locally and running around on a Friday evening wasnt a lot of fun trying to find two tanks!

Lots of god info in this thread, I think my wife is tired of me visiting the LDS...

[Clammy]

okay dumb questions, how long is it "good" to keep air in the tanks?

I recently went diving with a friend locally and running around on a Friday evening wasnt a lot of fun trying to find two tanks!

Lots of god info in this thread, I think my wife is tired of me visiting the LDS...

If you have your own tanks, it probably means you have everything else as well. If that's the case, the gas shouldn't remain in the tanks long enough for you to worry!!!

[Road Guy]

yeah thats probably true....

[Stu S.]

The resale value of a cylinder is uniquely high. I recently sold one for about what I paid for it. After 10 years, a BC or wetsuit has almost zero value. A tank that age is quite sellable.

If the "true cost of ownership" includes residual value, tank ownership is quite economical.