How many CMAS certified out there in US ?

[trappist]

Recently moved in, and when I saw this CMAS america sub-forum I was happy... but after a lot of research for dive clubs around, I actually have to say CMAS is way under-represented ;o) I know PADI is the big boy here, still I was expecting to find a bit more !
I feel like I'm back in early 90s when I had my mac and all the world had PCs ;o)

Will CMAS do as good ? I do not think so...

So who are you guys, how many of us, poor CMAS are out there ???

Let us know !

[Redshift]

I think they've just started there so it will take some time for them to certify a fair number of divers. By the way, how many CMAS instructors are there in America? Is it around the whole continent or more in some countries?

[CMAS One]

CMAS is actually one of the largest organizations in the world and the most distinguished. Captain Jacques Yves Cousteau was the spearhead and chairman of the original committee that formed the organization in 1958-59. Because of poor representation for the technical (training) committee by the US's representative body at the time CMAS was almost invisable in the US. In 2005 we were asked to try one more time to develop a CMAS presence in the US and Caribbean. We are slowly making headway in the US but as you know the vast majority of people here are in to do it fast and don't sweat the details. But as the old saying goes "the devil is in the details" and people who participate in diving throughout their lives have taken more comprehensive courses than most of those offered these days. So we are in an uphill battle but if you look at our website Welcome to CMAS AMERICAS OFFICIAL WEBPAGE (http://www.cmasamericas.com) we are fairly well spread out in the US right now and more importantly have some of the best instructors in the industry. We continue to grow and have several Instructor workshops coming up which will increase the numbers and expand the availability of CMAS Instruction in the US. As for the club scenario you must realize that when PADI grew the dive industry in the 1970's and 80's by changing to a marketing first plan the existence of dive clubs as a major force in the US ceased to exist. Also the societal change to the rush-rush-rush mentality dramatically decreased the number of people interested in participating in dive club activities. Having lived overseas and been a member of CMAS related dive clubs I feel it is very unfortunate that dive clubs do not exist as extensively as they did when I started diving. We miss a lot of the comradery and fun of the diving experience by racing up, jumping on a dive boat, making a dive or two, jumping off the dive boat into a car and speeding off to the next event. I always tell my students to plan for a full day when we do our check-out dives so they can optimize the experience and more fully enjoy diving. CMAS is about quality training for divers not trying to produce massive numbers. We want to train people so they are highly skilled individuals who continue to dive for their entire lifetime because they enjoy it and care about the ocean realm. Hope this helps clarify the position of CMAS in the US.

CMAS One
Frank Toal, President
CMAS AMERICAS

[Screwbag]

I'm a CMAS 2 star diver...I have been very pleased with my instruction. I recommend it wholeheartedly to my friends and family. in the states you can find CMAS in some of the YMCA clubs around the country classes are always small and personal. it can save some cash to follow their "plan" you don't need another class for every little thing...it's just included in the certificate you are working on...

I learned in Norway but I come from the states (if that matters in the least)

Dive Safe!

[DennisS]

I think the majority of CMAS diver in the US are probably cross overs from the YMCA program. No numbers, just a guess.

[elan]

I think they've just started there so it will take some time for them to certify a fair number of divers. By the way, how many CMAS instructors are there in America? Is it around the whole continent or more in some countries?

Are you talking about the 2 continets or about US ? I think the OP was saying about US.. My instructor is CMAS instructor here in Canada

[Web Monkey]

Recently moved in, and when I saw this CMAS america sub-forum I was happy... but after a lot of research for dive clubs around, I actually have to say CMAS is way under-represented ;o) I know PADI is the big boy here, still I was expecting to find a bit more !
I feel like I'm back in early 90s when I had my mac and all the world had PCs ;o)

Will CMAS do as good ? I do not think so...

Sadly, you're probably right.


So who are you guys, how many of us, poor CMAS are out there ???

Not enough. The CMAS two star certification requirements look really nice. Unfortunately, you can't do it in a weekend, so it's going to be a tough sell for people who are looking for instant gratification.

Terry

[Walter]

The CMAS two star certification requirements look really nice. Unfortunately, you can't do it in a weekend, so it's going to be a tough sell for people who are looking for instant gratification.

CMAS isn't for those folks. CMAS is for folks who want quality.

[Redshift]

Are you talking about the 2 continets or about US ? I think the OP was saying about US.. My instructor is CMAS instructor here in Canada

Well, America is only one continent. I know trappist was asking about the USA in particular but I thought I'd extend the question to the whole continent to have a feeling of how spread CMAS training is now.

[elan]

Well, America is only one continent.

I have always considered them being 2, After reading your response I have done some search to check it and here is what I have found in wikipedia.

"North America and South America are now treated as separate continents in India, China, and most native English-speaking countries, such as the United States, Canada, Australia, and New Zealand[citation needed]. Furthermore, the concept of two American continents is prevalent in much of Asia. However, in earlier times they were viewed as a single continent known as America. From the 19th century some people used the term "Americas" to avoid ambiguity with the United States of America. The plurality of this last term suggests that even in the 19th century some considered the New World (the Americas) as two separate continents. North and South America are viewed as a single continent, one of six in total, in some parts of Europe, and much of Latin America[citation needed]."


CMAS site shows most of the CMAS centers being located south of the US.

[CMAS One]

Guess you did'nt do well in geography in school. If you open any geography text book and look at a list there is North America, South America and Central America. North America is made up of the US and Canada. Also if you say America in almost any part of the world it is immediately identified as the United States thus the term Americans. People in Canada and South America do not call themselves Americans. Justr try calling a Canadian an American and see what happens. Ha Ha!

Cheers,
Frank

[CMAS One]

The YMCA is no longer invoilved in Scuba Training and in issuing CMAS certification "equivalencies" (they never really taught CMAS), If you go to our webpage Welcome to CMAS AMERICAS OFFICIAL WEBPAGE (http://www.cmasamericas.com) you can see the list of Instructors and our coverage area. We are growing slowly but we are growing. We have a program that stresses quality training and does require more time and effort than a US based course so we recruit only the cream of the crop Instructors. They are dedicated to education not speed and money. Many of our Instructors are originally from other countries but we also have alot of home grown Instructors. It is great because it gives us a sort of miniture version of CMAS itself by having a true International organization. Come visit our website.

Cheers,
CMAS One

[elan]

Frank, If the comment was addressed to me then I can say that no, I did not do well geography in an american school as I have never attended the one. in my school (Russian) I was taught there are 2 continents of America (North and South). Central America is NOT a continent. It's a region - part of North American continent. Some definitions include Mexico into Central America region fully or partially, some do not. I have not got the comment about trying to call a Canadian an American. How is that related to the continents ? :)

[bjjman]

Guess you did'nt do well in geography in school. If you open any geography text book and look at a list there is North America, South America and Central America. North America is made up of the US and Canada. Also if you say America in almost any part of the world it is immediately identified as the United States thus the term Americans. People in Canada and South America do not call themselves Americans. Justr try calling a Canadian an American and see what happens. Ha Ha!

Cheers,
Frank

I was exciting about CMAS after reading a little about it, but is that the kind of dive training we can expect Frank? Central America is certainly not a continent.

[CMAS One]

I was not referring to Central America as a Continent just that it is a geographical barrier that defines North and South America. The point was just that AMERICA is generally considered the Political Enitity known as the USA. Nothing more was intended. If you google the Continents it says there are 5-7 depending on how you count them then gives this list.
Africa
Asia
Eurasia
Eurafrasia
Antarctica
Europe
Oceania
Australia
America
North America
South America

The Canadian reference was an attempt at a joke which since you have never been over here you did not have a way of understanding. Maybe it would mean something if I said never call some one from the Ukraine a Russian ( my experience in doing so has resulted in some very upset Ukrainians) Canadians generally do not like being called Americans. No big deal.

To answer the CMAS question it is still the highest quality training available and inferring it is not is just being in denile.

[Pullmyfinger]

It was my understanding that YMCA instruction was very much the equal to CMAS training. Obviously CMAS agreed based on the fact they issued a card.

I'm certain that SEI is now equal to CMAS Americas as well.

I'm am a YMCA trained diver, with the usual CMAS card that goes with it.

I'm in Guam for the next couple of years. There is neither CMAS, CMAS Americas, or SEI instruction available here. (Too bad.)

Once I leave here I'll seek out either CMAS Americas, or SEI instruction. Depending on which is available wherever I end up.

In my view CMAS Americas and SEI are equivalent. I hope to be able to find an instructor from one of those agencies. They are the only two agencies I am interested in.

[bjjman]

I'm in your boat, Pullmyfinger, with only really being interested in SEI and CMAS. I would like to know if anyone actually has knowledge as to the differences between the two, rather than someone's "view" of them being equivalent. Frank, any chance you can send me a list of requirements for the different CMAS certifications? There is nothing on the CMAS Americas website, and the standards on the cmas2000.org site are very general and don't get specific enough.

[tlessard]

My wife and I got our CMAS Cave II/Cave Diver certifications through the Mexico office with German Yanez. CMAS Cave I/Cavern Diver is equivalent to most organizations' Cavern classes but is uniqe in having a 50m/165ft penetration+depth limit (most organizations are either 40m/130ft or 60m/200ft) with all dives occurring above 20m/66ft of depth. We essentially passed out of this course with a previous PADI Cavern certification and a breif skills evaluation dive.

Cave II/Cave Diver takes you a step further than a standard Intro class and teaches progressive penetration and navigational decisions - basically puts you at the Apprentice level for most organizations with a max depth of 30m/100ft. Similar to NAUI Cave I, but without published navigational decision limits other than progressivity in order to build skills and abilities.

Cave III/Full Cave Diver finishes up the CMAS cave offerings with a regiment that dumps you out well above the qualifications of a standard Full Cave certification from other agencies: A minimum of eight cave dives are performed in a minimum of four different cave systems. Participants will perform and participate in line gaps/jumps, circuits, traverses, "Y’s and T’s", decompression procedures, restrictions, and low visibility situations, sump- and post-sump diving and the use of stage tanks (up to 2). These dives are intended to bring together all aspects and facets of preceding training and experience. All limitations of the previous levels of training are withdrawn. Upon successful completion, the candidate will be qualified as a CMAS Cave Diver III (Full Cave Diver).

The CMAS Cave Diving program is an excellent tool, second to none in the hands of a capable overhead instructor. Training material selection is left up to the instructor as CMAS does not have any required literature other than the defined training and skills standards.

Trey

[OceanEd]

I am a 3* CMAS Instructor who was certified in France. I am also a PADI Course Director so I might see both sides of this thing.

It does not seem like CMAS does much in the USA. In fact, I can't remember the last time I saw a CMAS certification being offered by a dive store. Because the vast majority of training takes place through the stores, CMAS would have to work with them to grow in the USA and it is not doing that.

The nice thing is that now CMAS has equivalency ratings with PADI so it is easy for a diver to cross back and forth in their training. I think this is important to give the divers freedom of choice.

[uncleavi]

I did a CMAS 1 and 2 star course when I learned to dive in Israel.

[OceanEd]

Uncleavi:

I was the Instructor Trainer for the Israeli Diving Federation (FUAI) a number of years ago and crossed over all their instructorst to PADI and then to NAUI. It is a great place to learn to dive.

[CMAS One]

You are slightly miss informed. CMAS does not have "equivalencies" with PADI just an agreement to recognize their training. You still have to undergo skill evaluations and then add the training you would be missing from PADI to bring you up to CMAS Standards. We do work with dive shops and the number is slowly growing as is CMAS in America. You have to remember that CMAS is structured intirely differntly than PADI and we do not have the big business financial structure that they do. This means that we can only grow at a slower rate. We will succeed in the long run however (remember the tortoise and the hare) the public is beginning to understand that diving does require a more comprehensive level of training than that being provided by the US agencies. We do not want the badge collectors or people who are not serious about diving as a life-long activity. CMAS is here after 50 years of neglect of the Technical Committee (training) the original representative body, the Underwater Society of America, has only been active with the sports committee primarily concerned with underwater hockey and spearfishing competitions. CMAS AMERICAS was formed ar the request of the past President of the CMAS Technical Committee Walter Tichey to represent CMAS training in the US, Carribean and areas not represented by a Federation in their home country. Any question about the coverage of CMAS in the World can be answered by visiting www.cmas.org.

Frank
CMAS One

[CMAS One]

bjjman - Again there is no "equivalency" to any other agency were you merely get handed a card from CMAS. The YMCA program was suppose to include CMAS training as part of their program in order to issue the card but they did not fulfill that requirement and just gave them out for money. Their program no longer exists so that practice fortunately has now terminated. SEI is a new group started by some of the old guard YMCA Instructors but it has no relationship with CMAS and since it is attempting to be an "International" agency (the reason YMCA teamed with CMAS to begin with) it cannot create the relationship as Federations are restricted to their home countries or specific geographic boundries. CMAS is recognized worldwide and is now slowly growing in the US. People are starting to recognize that the standards are superior to US based agencies and that the training provides a more thourough and complete knowledge of diving which results in a deeper appreciation and enjoyment of the sport. Hope this helps.

Frank
CMAS ONE

[CMAS One]

Trey - German is one of our top Cave Instructors and teaches in one of the best places to learn cave diving. We also have several in Florida as well. Enjoy your diving.

Frank
CMAS ONE

[OceanEd]

Frank:

I am glad to hear that someone is taking over the guiding principles of CMAS in the USA beside the Underwater Society of America. I applaud that and wish you all the best in what you a re doing.

I worked with CMAS in France and held many meetings with them in regards to PADI and CMAS. I even hold a 3 Star CMAS Instructor card. I also worked with their CMAS members in the different countries in Europe and elsewhere. I agree completely that CMAS and PADI are structured completely differently. I tried for years to work out some sort of equivalency with CMAS in France until I learned some facts that made me realize it was not possible to do so. Correct me if you think I am wrong.

Each country has one diving organization, usually the government sponsored amateur federation in that country, who represent CMAS and give out the CMAS certifications in that country. What I found so confusing was that there is no one single standard for what a one star or two star or three star diver had to do to get the CMAS certification. In each country it was the national federation who decided what was required to complete the training and it could be completely different in each country.

An example would be the BSAC in England. At the time I was trying to do all this, BSAC had no requirement that the divers should be trained by instructors. Anyone in their clubs could teach someone if they came to the club one night or if noone wanted to conduct the training they would send them away. Other countries had their own ideas and rules that they followed. I am not saying this is wrong, I am just saying that to me CMAS is an umbrella organization under which individual member diving organizations in each country set their own rules for what has to be done to get a CMAS certification. There was absolute no (at that time) standard set of training rules that all the countries followed. Maybe that has changed today, I don't know, I know it was true in the 70's, 80', and part of the 90's until I retired from PADI.

Obviously we could not work out any "equivalencies" with something that was so nebulous and did not have one set of standards for their training. So instead of dealing with CMAS themselves I started dealing directly with each individual amateur federation to come to an agreement as to what would be an equvalency. The first formal agreement came with the BSAC in England and today we have the same type of equivalency with most of the major diving organizations in the world.

Let me define "equivalency". I do not mean that someone from BSAC can come to PADI and get the PADI certification of the same level. What it means in every case is that if a diver from another diving organization in the world comes to a PADI instructor and wants to continue his or her training, then the PADI instructor knows how much training the person already has so we will know what is the next highest level they can take and we put them in that class to continue their training.

So perhaps I was not clear with what I meant by "equivalency". I hope this clarifies the matter. It took countless meetings and literally years to work all this out to every
organization's satisfaction, but is has been done and we even have a published list to help our instructors.

I can't count the number of times over the years that I have heard your comments about how the CMAS has a more pure system than PADI with better training. To be honest I don't agree with you at all. I do know that I personally introduced PADI into 28 countries around the world where PADI had never been established and we had no instructors at the time. Each country was dominated by the amateur federation that was the CMAS representative in that country. When I left PADI after more than 15 years of doing that, PADI had well over 50% of all the diver training and certifications in each country. In most of those countries today we are training over 70% to 80% of the divers today. That is a fact. So I would use it to point out that PADI seems to be a very successful system that attracts and retains divers in a way that CMAS is not able to do at present. I honestly hope that your new guidance in the USA will give divers an alternative that they will feel is as good.

From reading your response I would guess we disagree on whether or not dive shops should be the center of where divers go for their training as well as their equipment needs. I would love to debate this with you at some time if you are willing.

I look forward to having some meaningful dialogue with you in the future.

Stephen Metcalf

[Gilldiver]

One could always go into why the BSAC and CMAS split:
So long, CMAS,it's sad to say goodbye - Divernet (http://www.divernet.com/other_diving_topics/general_diving/160810/so_long_cmasits_sad_to_say_goodbye.html)

Politics are wonderful things.

I don’t think CMAS will ever become a major agency in the US as CMAS usually needs a governmental sponsoring system which the US will never do.

CMAS may find a nice nitch for themselves just as GUE and TDI are more nitch systems then mainstream.

[OceanEd]

I will be honest. I am not completely familiar with the standards that CMAS is using in the USA. You have to remember I lived outside the USA for 20 years, developing PADI and then cruising on my sailboat.

Like many of the Amateur Federations I have worked with around the world, I think CMAS has very high goals and I commend them for that. It is easier to set standards and have very high goals when you are subsidized by your country's government and you do not have to worry about making money.

In a meeting I had with the Norwegian Amateur Diving Federation I was actually told that they had no interest in seeing diving grow in Norway. They were happy keeping things the way they were and they didn't want to dirty themselves with making money. I explained that we then had no reason to fight each other because we were very interested in making diving grow in Norway and in making money.

I think that in the real world, outside of government funding, you have to balance what you would like to do with what actually works and is practical. The divide between the two is many times the divide between CMAS and PADI.

[ijdod]

One could always go into why the BSAC and CMAS split:
(URL removed due to SB limitations :) So long, CMAS,it's sad to say goodbye - Divernet[/url]

Politics are wonderful things.

I get the impression that more than a few national organisations are not all that happy with CMAS, and are only on board to be able to issue their members a recognized c-card.

[OceanEd]

IJDOD:

You are correct. CMAS is used as an umbrella organization so that the amateur federations in each country can gain international recognition for the diver training that they have developed in their country. It is all different and there is no one standard.

The interesting thing is that now that PADI is recognizing these federations individually with an equivalency rating, CMAS is not so important to them. They will stay with CMAS, however, because CMAS controls the Olympic fin swimming events and the amateur federations want to be part of that.

[CMAS One]

Guys - The entire CMAS system is not government sponsored. To understand CMAS you have to understand its beginning and structure. Back in the early 1950's diver training was basically individual divers passing it on to one another. Most of these "Instructors" were former military divers from the various Navies’ of the world (the beginning of high standards). Eventually these folks joined clubs because that is what folks did back then TV was new and the Internet was non-existent. People actually got out and participated in the activities and spread the fun to others. Well it became apparent to Captain Cousteau after a couple of brushes with death himself that formalized training was important and uniform standards would be best. Thus he steered the formation starting with the 15 major countries involved in diver training at the time and all others were encouraged to join as well. Unfortunately it was first come first served became the representative body of CMAS more on this later. The idea was that these countries' representatives would become Federations making up the Confederation (world body). And because there was such a broad range of activities in diving there would be Three Committees each overseeing a different major aspect of the sport i.e. Sports - Competitions (breath holding, U/W Hockey, Spearfishing etc) Scientific - U/W Scientific work and Technical - Diver Training. Each of these committees operates separately developing and refining their own standards for their areas of interest.

The reason for the non-profit was most of the club instructors taught for free only receiving free diving access and air for their efforts. The Technical Committee hammered out a set of Consensus Standards (Sound familiar RSTC) that would be used as a worldwide minimum standard which the individual Federations could use as is or exceed (reason for the variety). The reason some of the Federations have Government sponsorship is that they liked the idea and CMAS's organization and choose them as their national representative body thus the government financial support. Examples are France, Italy, Israel and Greece where all divers must meet the Local Federations standard to be able to dive. You are right this will never happen here but it might have had UWSA been interested in the Technical aspect as opposed to the Sport Committee activities. Thus CMAS training All but disappeared in favor of a very poor "equivalency" system that got passed around from one US agency to another. Well in the late 1990's CMAS was becoming unhappy with this representation in the US and decided to try a different approach that was to form a new Federation in the US that centered on Training and in 2005 CMAS AMERICAS was formed. It was put forth and discussed extensively in the 2 years of talks 2003 to 2005 regarding the need for a hybrid CMAS structure here as the European style Club Structure no longer existed in the US and profit would be involved to be able to attract Instructors and Dive Shops into the system to which they agreed. Some folks in CMAS do not like that but they have to accept reality and believe me if you look closely at some of them they are making money just under the guise of Not-For-Profit. Just like some of the US agencies did ad do.
You cannot survive in this market without making some profit to fuel the fire and attract good people. The difference is that profit is not the primary goal - the highest quality education is the primary goal- if you make some money along the way there is nothing wrong with that. Profit is not the dirty word it is the practices that are used to gain that profit that are at fault and cause the watering down of standards and thus diver safety.

The disenchantment with CMAS is only occurring in the Sport Committee's subset of Underwater Hockey. Since we are not concerned with that activity I do not follow the details but know that that is the problem area. As near as I can figure from what I have heard is that it is like the old "well if you do not want to do what I want I will take my ball and go home" only in this case it is take my Federation and go start a new League. So do not make the mistake of counting out CMAS just because one of the family members is quarreling with the others. This has been going on since 2003.

Now the problem of first come first appointed representative held CMAS back in becoming universally the diver training organization because some Federations had interests only in competitive sports so the training was either poorly coordinated or not done at all.

But here we are and although growth is slow due to lack of government or big sponsor money we are here to stay and will be the quality alternative to the status-quo organizations. If you would like to join in the grass roots development of CMAS AMERICAS please email me at frank@cmasamericas.com - subject line - Grass Roots Info. Hope this explains things a bit better and let's you understand were we are going.

If you would to join the grass roots movement here in the States or non represented Caribbean ( your country is independent not a territory of a European government) please drop me an email frank@cmasamericas.com use the title line - Grass Roots CA.
Let's hope this is a new decade of growth for the diving industry and that the trend of new divers and instructors continues to be seeking out the best available training programs.

Cheers,

Frank
CMAS ONE

[bjjman]

bjjman - Again there is no "equivalency" to any other agency were you merely get handed a card from CMAS...

Frank
CMAS ONE

Frank,

This post must be directed at someone else. I never said anything to that effect.

[OceanEd]

Frank:

I agree with what you are saying. I am very glad to hear that you are taking on the goal of adapting the CMAS model to what will work in the USA. When I was trying to work with the different CMAS federations in the European countries in the 1980's they did not want to know anyting about our system in the USA. Even at that time it was pretty clear that the system in the USA (not just PADI but all the organizations) would eventually come to the rest of the world and take over from the amateur model.

I would love to talk to you more about what you are doing if you would like to do so. If there is any way I can help, let me know. I am always willing to support anything that can benefit modern diving and diving instruction.

[seanavent]

Hi Frank -

I'm one of those people that has split from CMAS as an underwater hockey player. I've been on the USA National teams and coached the national team a number of times. I've traveled around Europe getting understanding of what CMAS does for the sports they control. Although I wrote a lengthy diatribe about CMAS, I stepped away ad refrained from those writings as it's not my place to denegrate an organization. But if you'd like to know, I can give you a lot more insight on why many countries have chosen to go different ways from CMAS in regards to underwater hockey. Briefly, we do not think CMAS has our best interests in mind when making decisions.

I can't say that CMAS is any better or worse than PADI or any other SCUBA organization, but I do know underwater hockey intimately.

Cheers,

Sean
Western Regional Director
USA Underwater Hockey

[Similan]

I am CMAS 2* and I would always prefer the CMAS certification if you look for quality and not for how fast can you get it. There must be a reason why you can't do a CMAS certification in one weekend but you can with PADI. Throw a CMAS certified beginner and a PADI beginner in a "not pool like underwater situation" and you might see the difference immediately in how they handle the situation. You can't train/teach that much in just one or 2 weekends. But what amazes me most is that you can become a dive master with just 50 dives... I met lots of those, leading a group of several beginners at a tricky dive site - was interesting to watch - and scary!!!anyway... I experienced both and I like the PADI training material and the concept (if it would require more practical training and more challenging tests) but still think it doesn't cover all a diver would need to call himself "certified" and be a reliable "safe" buddy - CMAS challenges this a lot more - but as already mentioned, who wants to invest more time, training, practice (and time is money) if you can get it with less efforts - but also less knowledge and skills about what you actually are doing and dealing with underwater .. I saw a lot of stupidity from so called certified divers no matter what certification they had - they always forget that they not only risk their life but also the life and /or health of their buddies and the dive guides as well - saying that most of the times you only get a nasty look.

[Alex777]

If you would to join the grass roots movement here in the States or non represented Caribbean ( your country is independent not a territory of a European government) please drop me an email frank@cmasamericas.com use the title line - Grass Roots CA.

Mostly out of curiosity, why does the "non represented Caribbean" country have to be "independent not a territory of a European government" for you to be interested?

[Thalassamania]

Because if the are not they are already represented to CMAS by a national federation.

[Law5Guy]

To be a member of the Underwater Society of Amercia, is one required to have a CMAS C-Card?
Divers that have NAUI, PADI, SSI, SDI, etc, cards can't join in?

[Thalassamania]

No, membership in U.S.A. is open to divers from all agencies. The U.S.A. is a dues supported membership organization. Dues currently are $15/year. Membership is open to ALL divers. Link. (http://www.underwater-society.org/)

[M13UGS]

I might have missed the answer, though not sure it actually got answered...

How many CMAS certified divers are there?

[VictorP]

CMAS 1* going for 2* in October in Croatia

[racer108]

I am a CMAS diver certified in the 1980's and I have nothing but positive things to say about the CMAS I learned under. However, 516 dives later I require a new card and have received absolutely no help from this new CMAS America. You would think that the shops who wave the CMAS banner would at least want my money. I even sent emails to all the right places and after a year, nothing...