Just got my PADI OW Cert last weekend in Brockville, Woo Hoo!
We might go to Toby in August for a few days mid week. Can anyone suggest some good novice dive sites there, good charters, and hints on how to line up a buddy there, since my wife doesn't dive.
Cheers,
Mark
wetman
June 11th, 2003, 07:58 PM
Do the tugs at night - i've loved every night dive i do there. Don't let anyone talk you into the wetmore - painfully shallow and awful surge. Other than that, if you get a chance, do the Niagra II for sure and or the caves. Both are very interesting and pretty easy. Be ready for the cold - theres a evil bitterness in that water all year long.
s
Groundhog246
June 11th, 2003, 10:01 PM
Night dive? Niagara II? He did say he just finished his OW right? Certified to 60 feet and you suggest the Niagara II! :wacko:
You could look for a buddy on here, preferably one who's dove in Toby and is familiar with the conditions. Or look for a dive shop heading that way and tag along. When our LDS goes for an OW weekend, there are always a fair number of certified divers tagging along to dive. Oftne they don't have a 'regular' buddy. Sometimes they're not familiar with the area and looking for guidance. Meanwhile, get some local practice dives in. You'll find Toby colder than Brockville, so better to have less to think about (or in other owrds, the mechanics more ingrained).
rollins
June 12th, 2003, 07:29 AM
Thanks, great idea to try and link up with a dive shop heading up there. I definitely won't be doing any night dives or caves for awhile :wacko: I'll be practicing up on Wednesdays, our LDS has a club that dives every week on the St. Lawrence.
It will be colder than 54F in August? Yikes!!
Groundhog246
June 12th, 2003, 08:21 AM
Temps will depend on your depth. I haven't got my log right to hand to check, but if I recall from last summer when my wife certified late Aug, temps at the shallower depths (tugs) was low 60's. I did one off the back wall and at 85 feet it was 42F. There is usually one or more thermoclines present in the summer. Last I heard it had not yet warmed enough to establish one yet this year.
We're off to the Owen Sound/Wiarton area this weekend. My wife is doing her advanced and our 14 year old his OW. Picked up his wetsuit yesterday evening. He had quite a struggle getting it on when fitting him out (imagine that ;) ), so after he got home I had him put on take off a couple of times while offering some tips I've learned along the way. For some reason I can't convince him that a pair of pantyhose would help. :D Of course he then wanted to jump in our pool with it on.
wetman
June 12th, 2003, 08:50 AM
Well, mid august is two months away - likely enough time to get 30 dives in if you do it right at which point night diving will be no biggy i'm quite sure. I think my 6th or 7th dive was a night dive and i was much more comfortable on that dive than any of the previous ones. Up here, every dive is a night dive below 30 or so feet so i dont see the difference really. And i only recommended it on the tugs, not the niagra.
As i recall, doesn't the decking start at around 50ish feet or less on the niagra? Not much advanced about that.
"the caves" really aren't caves - its about about a 15-20 foot swim through 10 feet down that opens up into a place that hikers end up at. But the area outside the caves is actually nice to explore, shollow, lots of light and lots of biggy rock formations. You can go in or not if you want, it will still be nice.
The other thing you might want to look at for an easy walk in is the lighthouse - theres a sloping wall there that goes to the flat bottom at around 70-80 feet if i recall so you can go as deep as you're comfortable.
steve
diver gadget
June 12th, 2003, 09:00 AM
Yes the decking of the Niagara starts in 50 feet, so does the Begining of the forest city. Then the forest city drops of to 150.
Groundhog246
June 12th, 2003, 09:06 AM
wetman once bubbled...
As i recall, doesn't the decking start at around 50ish feet or less on the niagra? Not much advanced about that.
"the caves" really aren't caves - its about about a 15-20 foot swim through 10 feet down that opens up into a place that hikers end up at. But the area outside the caves is actually nice to explore, shollow, lots of light and lots of biggy rock formations. You can go in or not if you want, it will still be nice.
As long as he resists the temptation to follow the rest of the group to the bottom. You're right, time to do quite a few dives between now and the end of August. However, it's more likely he'll do 8 to 10 by then, and most if not all in warmer conditions.
How about working on getting 15 to 20 dives in, working hard on buoyancy control and being comfortable? Then sign up for an advanced class heading to Toby. You'll get to dive numerous sites with experienced guidance and gain new skills in the process.
wetman
June 12th, 2003, 09:07 AM
I was just in coz a few months ago, the reef went down to 600 or more feet at the bottom. I didnt go that far because i wasn't comfortable with the idea and it exceeded my training. What is your point?
steve
wetman
June 12th, 2003, 09:13 AM
The other issue is - if you're from the kingston brockville area, THERE IS NO REASON to go to toby. It is cold, nasty water and there are so few dives there worth doing and so infinitely many more in kingston/brockville that are warmer. In 3 trips to toby, i've never seen this legendary visibility that i'd heard about and almost alway get better vis in kingston/brockville than i've had in toby. If you're not diving dry, you're diving painfully wet and your second dive of the day if not the first (if you get to start out in a perfectly dry wetsuit for the first dive), will be very uncomfortable.
steve
diver gadget
June 12th, 2003, 09:40 AM
I agree.
I have been diving in Brockville, at the in about 80-90 feet I think I was and looked up to see the surface. The Vis, The temp, even the many of the wrecks are better than the ones in Toby. Some how Toby got called the Diving Capital of Ontario. I think the only reason is that is all Toby has.
AS far as the Niagara, I have heard rumors that people were diving it with only an open water card. When I talked to the Dive stores in Toby last they had it as an Advanced Dive The wreck is in 85-90 feet of water. It is COLD. When I had my open water I went south to coz. I went down to something like 90 feet. Felt fine but it was warm, great viz and it is just way different then in Toby.
Question: Can you dive the Keystorm with just an open water card? It starts in what 30 feet or something like that?
wetman
June 12th, 2003, 09:54 AM
DG,
Sorry i got snarky there. Bad day at work and its only 10.
I'm sure at one time Toby was good - back when vis in the st. lawrence and lake ontario sucked. However, it doesnt suck any more (well, just recently, but hopefully those zebras are off a long holiday now and are pumping that water through at double time).
Odd you mention the keystorm, it was my 1st and 2nd dives after my open water course. They were great. Gave me something to see and get comfy. Theres lots around that wheelhouse and the vis that day was excellent. I firmly believe that first dives should be interesting. I think a lot more divers from up here would stay in it longer if they actually got to see interesting things and not the bottom of dark water lakes.
steve
diver gadget
June 12th, 2003, 10:03 AM
1st and second dives after your open water? Would one of the LDS take you there? Do you have your own boat? It has just been my experience that on a wreck like the Keystorm, even though the top of it is shallow, a charter boat will not take an open water student.
wetman
June 12th, 2003, 10:40 AM
I think i've actually only done < 10 charters in canada and 2 were just last month. Most of my diving has been private boats - friends or my own.
Its a shame they wouldn't. I think theres lots to see on wrecks that start shallow like that. Take a more experienced buddy and whats different than doing any other dive? It may even be better, because at least theres a reasonable hard surface to land on with a gradual slop like that if for some reason they went down a bit too fast. In lakes around here, the silt storm that could get kicked up would be nasty. There really isnt a lot to see up here thats shallow other than the bottom of some shallower lakes. I can remember my excitement when i first saw the bow of that boat from the surface. I'm quite sure my first dives were what kept me so interested in this stuff.
Maybe there should be more new students with proper escorts on wrecks just like that one to keep them interested. I think that boat is a perfect example of dives to do like that.
steve
divebuddydale
June 12th, 2003, 11:13 AM
The scenery in Toby is amazing (I must admit I have only done diving there a few times). But I much prefer the Kingston to Cornwall corridor. Visibilty is amazing, Temps are great and the variety of diving is excellent, even if you don't go on a boat. Toby is cold , (it is clear though), Nothing to do in Toby after you are done diving, and not many sites you can just jump in and dive. (Plus you have to pay that stupid fee to dive).
Dale
wetman
June 12th, 2003, 11:43 AM
I forgot about those fees as well.
The other thing to remember about brockville area, the water isnt just warm at that time of year, its almost tropical warm - last year i remember temps in the upper 70s. That was such a beautiful thing. I love august/sept in that area.
steve
Marvintpa
June 12th, 2003, 11:48 AM
As someone who has been to Toby a few dozen times... my recommendation would be... to go to Kingston.
Having said that... Toby does have a few good shallow sites for the novice diver (and yes, the Wetmore is one of them, we used to use it for training all the time and surge was rare and minimal).
Groundhog246
June 12th, 2003, 04:46 PM
wetman once bubbled...
I was just in coz a few months ago, the reef went down to 600 or more feet at the bottom. I didnt go that far because i wasn't comfortable with the idea and it exceeded my training. What is your point?
steve
Maybe I've spent too much time diving with newer divers. Most have poor buoyancy control and however deep the bottom is, they'll end up there. On the Niagara II, as long as they stayed on top of the deck at 50 feet, no problem, the minute they peek over the edge "let's just drop to 60 feet because we're certified to that depth" they're a likely as not to be on the bottom at 85 feet and narced.
My reasoning is probably similar to the people at the caverns in Florida, if you don't have a cave cert, you can't take a light in the water. Thus you reduce the likelihood of divers with insufficient training venturing into the caves.
seahunter
June 12th, 2003, 07:14 PM
Careful marv!
You and I have discussed this very topic several times and over many years I have looked carefully at the 'Toby versus other sites' debate many times.
Kingston is a great place for diving and offers a lot of excitement.
Tobermory is the best place for new divers to learn about scuba diving for a dozen reasons - some related to the diving and some to the facilities.
Of course, there's lots of room for experienced divers too. Have you forgotten the Arabia, the Forest City, even the Niagara?
Again I urge experienced divers to avoid the mistake of indicating a dive site wherever it may be is not good simply because you have dived it several times and have decided you prefer another site. Let the new divers make their own choice unless you are suggesting that Tobermory should not be dived at all.
It's my opinion (as you well know) that Tobermory is the best place to start your Canadian diving career.
divebuddydale
June 12th, 2003, 08:45 PM
seahunter once bubbled...
Careful marv!
You and I have discussed this very topic several times and over many years I have looked carefully at the 'Toby versus other sites' debate many times.
Kingston is a great place for diving and offers a lot of excitement.
Tobermory is the best place for new divers to learn about scuba diving for a dozen reasons - some related to the diving and some to the facilities.
Of course, there's lots of room for experienced divers too. Have you forgotten the Arabia, the Forest City, even the Niagara?
Again I urge experienced divers to avoid the mistake of indicating a dive site wherever it may be is not good simply because you have dived it several times and have decided you prefer another site. Let the new divers make their own choice unless you are suggesting that Tobermory should not be dived at all.
It's my opinion (as you well know) that Tobermory is the best place to start your Canadian diving career.
I don't totally agree with you SH.. sure Toby has the motels/lodges real close, but I say the diving is not the best for people certing OW (it is good, but not BEST). I did my certs in Georgian Bay in August 1990 around Hope and Christian Island with Mississauga Dive and Todd Shannon J.R. . These were very nice dives and warm, but alas the accomodations were far. I think Brockville / Kingston offers good accomodations very close to the water, and the dives you can do are varied. I know I have posted this on the S2K board, but I think for a OW student to have to dive in a light current is o.k., because it is supervised and not too deep.
Don't get me wrong the diving in Toby is great, (albeit cold) but Brockville has alot of variety that you can access by shore, and even more if you jump on a boat. It is not like it was years ago when you could only see your hand if it was against your mask (Thanks Zebra Mussels).
Dale
we may have to agree to disagree on this one
p.s my motto is as long as I get wet :-)
mcrae
June 12th, 2003, 09:38 PM
Don't let them turn you away from Toby. Sure the diving around Kingston and the river is better, doesn't mean you shouldn't experience Toby.
I love the town and good times you can have up there.
If you are going mid week contact one of the main dive shops, GS water sports or Divers Den ahead of time and ask about available charters then. May not be many.
The tugs in the harbour, the Anchor and the Light House wall dive are all shore dives.
The standard charters are mainly the King and the Wetmore for one, and two of the Niagara, the Caroline Rose and the caves for another.
The really nice dives unfortuantely are deeper, the Arabia and Forest City but you will have them to look forward to.
The shore dives will be fairly warm as will the Wetmore and probably the King. No guarantees on the Niagara and the Rose:)
The Niagara starts at 45ft to the top of the wheel house and the main deck is at 80 ft. The limestone bottom is at 100 ft. You can have a nice dive without going much below 60 ft. Conditions on her can change big time from morning to afternoon due to
currents.
