TDI (Technical Diving International) Nitrox Course

[SCDiver]

I am researching to take my Nitrox course. I have found a dive store (not in our area) that teaches TDI (Technical Diving International) Nitrox. Has anyone had any courses through TDI, is it quality material and a reputable certification body?

Just never heard on them in our area, and was searching for an opinion, and I know I will get some honest ones here :-)

Thanks

[cyklon_300]

but not because of being TDI, the instructor was the key element.

The manual could stand some vigorous editing, but overall the course provided the info that was needed to dive nitrox.

Currently taking Adv Nitrox/Deco with the same instructor. These TDI manuals are even worse than the one for Basic Nitrox. But once again, it's the instructor, not the agency, that I'm paying for.

[SCDiver]

Thanks, let me know how the advanced goes. Yes that is primarily why I took it was the instructor. My PADI instructor in the area did not teach Nitrox so I had to venture out. As u see in my signature I am predominately PADI so this is my first time venturing out in the agencys. Just wanted to make sure they all talk the same language.

[astrofunk]

I just finished TDI Nitrox, and I was satisfied. Sure the manual could use a little editing, but it reads extrememly easily and has a nice conversational tone. Again, it's really the instructor that matters.

For the record, I believe the TDI course requires that you demonstrate your ability to analyze a nitrox tank, but it doesn't require any actual dives, whereas NAUI/PADI may require dives. I'm not sure what use the actual dives would be, so long as dive PLANNING and gas analysis is well-covered in the classroom. (I could be wrong about the NAUI/PADI requirements.)

Have fun!

[omar]

SCDiver once bubbled...
....Just wanted to make sure they all talk the same language.

No they don't all talk the same language. TDI is mainly drunken goober (to borrow a phrase). I am surprised that you could not find something better in your area.

omar

[Zerogravity]

I am TDI Nitrox Certified. It's the instructor, not the agency that makes the difference. If you find a good one, take the course. Good instructors wont just give verbatim info from the course manuals, but will instead use it as a general guide for the class. A good instructor is a good instructor, regardless of agency.

[crazyc]

astrofunk once bubbled...
whereas NAUI/PADI may require dives. I'm not sure what use the actual dives would be, so long as dive PLANNING and gas analysis is well-covered in the classroom. (I could be wrong about the NAUI/PADI requirements.)

Have fun!

I can't speak for PADI, but NAUI does require two dives, which must be repetitive. The instructor is required to give the students tasks to do during the dives, and this is easy to do. Also each student is required to track and record their depth every 5 minutes during the dive, so it can be graphed after the dive and CNS O2 clock can be calculated. This also allows them to take a look at their PO2 throughout the dive and reinforces the fact that they must repsect the limits that come along with diving Nitrox.

Also some students tend to have verying experiences which they like to share with each other.

I can't see teaching someone to use a new gas mixture and not allowing them to dive it.

CrazyC

[Fort Collins Bob]

I agree with the above comment that it is the Instructor
that is going to make or break the course....

I have taken TDI courses in:

Advanced Nitrox, Deco, Ext. Range, Cavern, Intro Cave, and
Advanced Wreck.

Yes, I do agree that the TDI books could be better...but
they did provide good information for the course.

I went with TDI also because of the Instructor not the organization.

The courses were all very well done and safe.

I also flew out of state to take my classes.. Colorado to wonderful
Florida.

I took My basic nitrox class w/ SSI and the course was just classroom, requiring no 'real' dives.

But again the SSI instructor was 110% into teaching the class..
He stuck with us to insure that are first few dives were educational and very safe.

Omar, it sounds like you had some dealings with TDI that
did not go to well ?

bob

[omar]

SCDiver once bubbled...
Has anyone had any courses through TDI, is it quality material and a reputable certification body?

No it is not quality material. Everyone on here has indicated that but in the same breath dismiss it. I do not subscribe to that same standard. The training material is a direct reflection of the knowledge and expertise of the agency.

In addition, there are some serious ethical questions regarding the founder and some past directors/leaders of TDI. I would strongly urge you to do some more looking around.

As much as I dislike PADI they do have a solid (but limited) beginner nitrox course. Some other strong programs are ANDI, NAUI and of course GUE. I have PADI and IANTD EANx certifications.

omar

[VaJames]

Omar,

Not to start a war here but I need to point something out to you. You mentioned that TDI has had prior "ethical issues" that cause you concern. What about IANTD? I mean come on!! ANDI is on its way out the door as a cert agency because everyone has strayed away from them. At least here on the east coast. I have Adv EANx and Deco Theory from TDI and I thought the course was well presented. The book reads like a children's story but all the information that you need is there and your instructor should be the key element in your training. It sounds to me as though you are biased for some reason. Would you care to give specifics??

James

:getsome:

[plsdiver4377]

crazyc once bubbled...


I can't speak for PADI, but NAUI does require two dives, which must be repetitive. The instructor is required to give the students tasks to do during the dives, and this is easy to do. Also each student is required to track and record their depth every 5 minutes during the dive, so it can be graphed after the dive and CNS O2 clock can be calculated. This also allows them to take a look at their PO2 throughout the dive and reinforces the fact that they must repsect the limits that come along with diving Nitrox.

Also some students tend to have verying experiences which they like to share with each other.

I can't see teaching someone to use a new gas mixture and not allowing them to dive it.

CrazyC

Actually NAUI has 2 different Nitrox courses: Nitrox and Nitrox Diver. The first requires no dives and the second requires the 2 you mentioned above. Other than the dives the material is the same. :mean:

[Soggy]

Nitrox is a pretty simple course...you shouldn't even need to do the dives to get the card, though I understand why they are often required. I had a good instructor, but can't say that I really learned anything at all by reading the SSI book. This isn't to say that the book isn't good, just that it is all material that is readily available online.

For Nitrox I wouldn't worry too much about who or where you take the class. As long as you understand how to come back alive, you've got it pretty well figured out.

Before you take the class, review how to do your Air tables. My instructor had to spend half the class time teaching some guy how to do his tables, while I asked him questions about his dives on the U-853.

[Doppler]

omar once bubbled...


No they don't all talk the same language. TDI is mainly drunken goober (to borrow a phrase). I am surprised that you could not find something better in your area.

omar

Omar: I am surprised that you would use such generalizations about any agency... "TDI is mainly a druken goober" c'mon!

I'm a TDI instructor-trainer and I take pride in the quality of the courses I give and I like the freedom TDI gives me to add value to those courses. The training materials are deficient in some areas, but there is a constant review process in place to upgrade and make changes to those materials and in any case, TDI instructors (and those from other agencies too) are encouraged to supplement the text with course handout deemed appropriate by the instructors.

As for the drunken part. I can only assume this is someone's evaluation of Bret Gilliam -- TDI's president.

During the many years I have know Bret, I have never seen him drink anything except a glass of wine with dinner and a glass of Cointreau after dinner. Of the many vices that one might try to attribute to the man, drunkeness is the least appropriate!


Doppler
(A TDI guy who will occasionally drink wine, guiness or navy rum.)

[Doppler]

SCDiver once bubbled...
I am researching to take my Nitrox course. I have found a dive store (not in our area) that teaches TDI (Technical Diving International) Nitrox. Has anyone had any courses through TDI, is it quality material and a reputable certification body?

Just never heard on them in our area, and was searching for an opinion, and I know I will get some honest ones here :-)

Thanks

Hey SC:

advice would be to go with the instructor you feel comfortable with and make sure the class is going to give you the information you need to feel comfotable diving NITROX. As a basic user, you should have a comprehensive understaning of the risk's associated with pumping and diving with NITROX and also you should be taught the procedures that best manage those risks in your diving environment.

Bottom line mate is: Get the knowledge and use the gas. Also would suggest that you try to aim for diving a standard mix to become very familiar with the gas... most would opt for an EAN30 most of the time. But do think about taking a program that will allow you to use custom mixes (the the usual cut-off of EAN39)

Take care and dive safe... dive NITROX!

Doppler

[padiscubapro]

VaJames once bubbled...
Omar,

Not to start a war here but I need to point something out to you. You mentioned that TDI has had prior "ethical issues" that cause you concern. What about IANTD? I mean come on!! ANDI is on its way out the door as a cert agency because everyone has strayed away from them. At least here on the east coast. I have Adv EANx and Deco Theory from TDI and I thought the course was well presented. The book reads like a children's story but all the information that you need is there and your instructor should be the key element in your training. It sounds to me as though you are biased for some reason. Would you care to give specifics??

James

:getsome:

ANDI has been growing alot lately.. up in ny we have 3 new facilities, several strong ones in NJ.. and overal growth has been good..

I'm Going down to Puerto Rico to convert a tech facility over to ANDI next month.

In Germany ANDI is now the #1 tech training agency by far... more tech certs than all the others combined... for overall certs (rec and tech) is like 3rd or 4th over there...

In 2 years we have gained in the new RHQs in the Phillipines, Benulux.. and a few others I cant remember offhand.. We also Have opened facilities all over Europe.. Are in the process of replacing a few IANTD/TDI facilities in the UK switching entirely to ANDI..

You will never see large numbers of ANDI instructors and an even smaller number of ITS.. Instructor ratings are hard enough earning an IT rating takes alot of work and dedication.. ANDI has been around since 1988 and to date has made only 110 its (some of those are strictly non diving ratings (service tech/gas blender/ medic program ect).. (I chose my number thats why its higher than 110)

ANDI's now has more course offerings than anyone else (standardized not distinctive specialties taught by some).. At last count there were around 100 unique certifications(it have to go and count), The dive medic program is undergoing review to get national approval (national safety council- ANDI has an IT from the national safety council doing the work).
Once our materials are seen we get lots of people interested in comming to ANDI the problem is getting the word out..

ANDI also loses many instructor and stores because they decide the ANDI classes are too much work(and are afraid to charge what the class is worth) and they rather make a quick buck.. The ones with this attitude leave on their own because they know if they shortcut they will get caught quite quickly and suspended/expelled.. at least 1 student from every class gets a questioneer, ALL rb and tech students get questioneers.. so If an instructor short cuts hes out..

ANDI can say one think that now other agency can claim... ANDI has gone without an insurance claim since their inception..
thats 15 years and counting.. the best (to my knowledge) that any other agency has done is FOUR years.. quite a difference..

This includes CCR clasees for over a decade and trimix classes since around 1991..

[omar]

vajames,

You didn't see me recommend IANTD did you?

-----------------------------------------

As I said before, the materials are substandard and everyone here including TDI instructors have said that. In fact they say they "supplement" the materials to provide a quality course. Get a clue, If it was quality to begin with you would not have to add to it.

omar

[Doppler]

omar once bubbled...
vajames,

You didn't see me recommend IANTD did you?

-----------------------------------------

As I said before, the materials are substandard and everyone here including TDI instructors have said that. In fact they say they "supplement" the materials to provide a quality course. Get a clue, If it was quality to begin with you would not have to add to it.

omar

Well, I think you're the only one to use the term "substandard" and I really disagree that supplementing materials somehow indicates a lack of quality. Do you teach? Anything at all, I'm not asking if you are a scuba instructor, just do you teach or have you ever taken a course as an adult... perhaps a university course. I think you have. In some of your postings, you sound as though you have an engineering background. Didn't your instructors throw in some "additional" materials... perhaps a magazine article, URL, book list?

In many years of learning and slightly fewer of teaching -- a range of subjects from calculus to Adobe Photoshop -- and including several flavors of diver training -- courses I have taken and taught have always involved supplemental materials. I'd say for a course of any kind to be useful and to illustrate the practical application of its core values, the person teaching it MUST add something.

To believe that a shrink-wrapped course arrives in the classroom containing everything needed to deliver a quality program is -- well, to be diplomatic -- simple-minded. What purpose does the instructor serve if she can't supplement that material with her thoughts, suggestions and comments? These are supplemental materials and you seem to believe they indicate some fundemental lack of quality in the basic program.

Those who produce textbooks know that it is impossible to create the definitive work on any subject -- especially one as fluid and organic as scuba diving. Those who fashion outlines for learning programs are often faced with the same problem.

I think that closing one's mind to the possibilities of change and the opportunities afforded by new ideas is the first step on the road to dogma and exculsionism. It's better to have an open mind and to use new ideas creatively to advance one's own understanding and broaden the comprehension of others... it's tough to get there from where you appear to be standing. You seem angry and frustrated.

By the way, I answered your question about oxygen analysers in the homebrewer's thread.

Doppler

[Braunbehrens]

SCDiver, by all means, take the class. Better to dive nitrox than air, and you'll need the card to get fills. Just make sure you ALWAYS analyze your gas before diving, you NEVER exceed the maximum operating depth (MOD) of the gas, and do not exceed a PO2 of about 1.2 (if you do not learn what a PO2 is, take the class again from someone else).

BTW, I'm not an instructor, just someone who has taken these classes ....

You might eventually want to take a GUE class because half of what they will teach you in a TDI class is (I can't think of a polite word to put here).

[LUBOLD8431]

Now, now, Mr. DIR, lets keep it nice. Keep your comments civil, and leave out the bad words....

Just because you believe that GUE is the only agency that teaches anything the right way, doesnt mean the rest of us do...

Besides, its not the agency, its the Instructor. I have taken a few TDI classes, and I think they were a great education. Again, it was because of the instructor, not the materials, or the agency.

[omar]

Doppler once bubbled...


Well, I think you're the only one to use the term "substandard" and I really disagree that supplementing materials somehow indicates a lack of quality

Hmmmm.....

Deficient: (your word)

1 : lacking in some necessary quality or element <deficient in judgment>
2 : not up to a normal standard or complement : DEFECTIVE <deficient strength>
- de·fi·cient·ly adverb

not up to normal standard = substandard


By definition to teach is to impart knowledge, wisdom and experience. With the TDI material it is much more dependent upon finding a competent instructor to adequately do this.

Not angry, just quite amused at the umbrage that the TDI instructors are taking about an opinion of the materials that TDI produces.

And for what it is worth it is a direct answer to the guys question. In my opinion there are better agencies for a EANx course.

omar

[Braunbehrens]

LUBOLD8431 once bubbled...
Now, now, Mr. DIR, lets keep it nice. Keep your comments civil, and leave out the bad words....

Just because you believe that GUE is the only agency that teaches anything the right way, doesnt mean the rest of us do...

Besides, its not the agency, its the Instructor. I have taken a few TDI classes, and I think they were a great education. Again, it was because of the instructor, not the materials, or the agency.

I thought that this is specifically what I did, keep it civil and leave out the bad words?

I'm not pulling this out of my hat, I've taken those TDI classes with the best local TDI guy, and then I took a GUE - F class. It was night and day, let me tell you.

That's just my experience of course, but take a look at what other people have posted who've taken GUE classes. EVERYONE who takes one of their classes says that.

Maybe it has something to do with the level of instruction?

[cnidae]

Seems to be some debate on GUE vs TDI for Nitrox. Since some of you think GUE is far superior; my question to you is what does the GUE class teach that I don't?

[O-ring]

cnidae once bubbled...
Seems to be some debate on GUE vs TDI for Nitrox. Since some of you think GUE is far superior; my question to you is what does the GUE class teach that I don't?
Would that be the rec triox class? Personally, I think any nitrox class with a good instructor that requires dives is the best way to go. I see no problem with any of the standard rec agency nitrox courses except SSI (or whoever it is) due to lack of dives.

[cnidae]

O-ring once bubbled...
Would that be the rec triox class?

Triox? I thought we were talking about Nitrox in this thread?


O-ring once bubbled... that requires dives is the best way to go.

So what could you teach about Nitrox at the ocean that you could'nt teach in the classroom? If the students need more water training on other skills would'nt you suggest them to take a different class? Personally I try to teach the Nitrox class as an add on to an existing class the student is already taking. But I've taught many Nitrox classes with no dives required. If someone has some valid reasons why dives should be conducted for a Nitrox class please give me some good reasons and maybe I'll start requiring them but until then I won't.

[Doppler]

cnidae once bubbled...


Triox? I thought we were talking about Nitrox in this thread?



So what could you teach about Nitrox at the ocean that you could'nt teach in the classroom? If the students need more water training on other skills would'nt you suggest them to take a different class? Personally I try to teach the Nitrox class as an add on to an existing class the student is already taking. But I've taught many Nitrox classes with no dives required. If someone has some valid reasons why dives should be conducted for a Nitrox class please give me some good reasons and maybe I'll start requiring them but until then I won't.

One of the reasons that I include a dive or two in a nitrox class is that it allow me to observe that the student follows the procedures on land and in water that were "taught" during the classroom... I find that reassuring.

Another reason is that the feedback from students -- and feedback is important -- tells me that they like having an instructor around when they dive this new gas... they find that reassuring.

I classify both those reasons as valid. But that's me and I was never one to conform! =-)

Doppler

[deepstops]

omar once bubbled...


No it is not quality material. Everyone on here has indicated that but in the same breath dismiss it. I do not subscribe to that same standard. The training material is a direct reflection of the knowledge and expertise of the agency.

In addition, there are some serious ethical questions regarding the founder and some past directors/leaders of TDI. I would strongly urge you to do some more looking around.

As much as I dislike PADI they do have a solid (but limited) beginner nitrox course. Some other strong programs are ANDI, NAUI and of course GUE. I have PADI and IANTD EANx certifications.

omar

Omar,
You need to look for a clue. Jan Neal wrote TDI's nitrox manual with Gilliam. Say what you want about Bret but Jan's credentials and contributions to the sport are numerous and of outstanding quality. Have you ever looked to see who the author of some the NAUI materials is or is your axe only requiring a TDI grinding???? It's scary you might actually influence someone's decision with your "axe".

[cnidae]

Doppler once bubbled...


One of the reasons that I include a dive or two in a nitrox class is that it allow me to observe that the student follows the procedures on land and in water that were "taught" during the classroom... I find that reassuring.

Another reason is that the feedback from students -- and feedback is important -- tells me that they like having an instructor around when they dive this new gas... they find that reassuring.

I classify both those reasons as valid. But that's me and I was never one to conform! =-)

Doppler

Good points, In my eyes if there's any doubt in my mind that they can't follow what was taught in the class they don't pass, I can't make them follow the rules. Feedback is always a good thing, I've just never really gotten useful feedback from diving with my Nitrox students dealing with diving the gas except for the basic one's, fatigue, longer bottom time etc... I do feel more comfortable if I do dive with them the first couple times and thats why I try to get my students to merg it with another class. But my worries are not so much to do with the Nitrox it's more that there diving ability problems may cause a problem and the gas mix may add to it.

[Braunbehrens]

So you are saying that dives are necessary for nitrox classes because open water instruction is so poor that you have to make sure they know how to dive.

Great.

This is why I would recommend a GUE class as a follow up to any nitrox class.

Because you are right, instruction is awful for the most part, and even after a nitrox class most people still haven't learned how to dive.

Don't believe me? How many times has the average Joe practiced the most basic and important skill...OOA. My guess is, no more than 5 times if they are lucky, and never after finishing the last class.

[Braunbehrens]

deepstops once bubbled...


Omar,
You need to look for a clue. Jan Neal wrote TDI's nitrox manual with Gilliam. Say what you want about Bret but Jan's credentials and contributions to the sport are numerous and of outstanding quality. Have you ever looked to see who the author of some the NAUI materials is or is your axe only requiring a TDI grinding???? It's scary you might actually influence someone's decision with your "axe".

I was just watching a show where they were bascially accusing Cousteau of starting the marine algea problem in the mediterranean.

Does it matter who wrote the book? If it's bad, it's bad. Being a great diver does not a great teacher make.

The advanced nitrox manual for TDI says that it's better to be narced and NOT know it, than to be narc'd and know it. Does this make sense?

But don't worry, TDI and all the other agencies are rapidly updating their manuals and what they teach. I'll let you guess where they are copying it from.

[BigJetDriver]

VaJames once bubbled...
Omar,

...You mentioned that TDI has had prior "ethical issues" that cause you concern. What about IANTD?...James

:getsome:

James,

I would have to ask, if you are going to make serious charges about an agency and, by inference, it's founder, that you be specific and spell out exactly what it is you mean!

I could, for instance, say something like:

"Ah yes, VaJames! Well we all know about his propensity for little.....well..., best not to get into that here!"

This, of course, would be slander by innuendo!

I have known Tom Mount for many years now. He is an upstanding and honorable man whose diving history goes back into the early years of our sport. He has always been a leader and innovator in the technical diving world!

Let's leave the slander by innuendo stuff where it belongs, in the "An Alien Raped Brook Shields" type rags that decorate the check-out isles at the local supermarket, please! =-)

[daylight]

Bigjetdriver69,
Well said.
Now tell me more about the alien and Brooks Shields!

Dive safe,
Larry

[cnidae]

Braunbehrens once bubbled...
So you are saying that dives are necessary for nitrox classes because open water instruction is so poor that you have to make sure they know how to dive.

Great.

This is why I would recommend a GUE class as a follow up to any nitrox class.

Because you are right, instruction is awful for the most part, and even after a nitrox class most people still haven't learned how to dive.

Don't believe me? How many times has the average Joe practiced the most basic and important skill...OOA. My guess is, no more than 5 times if they are lucky, and never after finishing the last class.

Your a very funny guy, I've seen GUE students that have gone through the DIRF and are in Tech 1 that should not be pursuing the tech avenue.

[deepstops]

Braunbehrens once bubbled...

Does it matter who wrote the book? If it's bad, it's bad. Being a great diver does not a great teacher make.

The advanced nitrox manual for TDI says that it's better to be narced and NOT know it, than to be narc'd and know it. Does this make sense?

But don't worry, TDI and all the other agencies are rapidly updating their manuals and what they teach. I'll let you guess where they are copying it from.

I was talking about the original topic - basic nitrox. I don't know who wrote TDI's Adv Nitrox manual.

Remember one thing - it's easier to correct the mistakes that others have made before you arrived: my point being that GUE was not the first agency to teach technical diving. In fact they were a pretty late arrival into the game. What classes were you taking 5 or 10 years ago? It wasn't GUE.....

And just for the record, I've taken DIR-F. It was a great class. But strangely enough, my DIR instructor's original "affiliation" was IANTD and I don't think she went back recertified all her prior students.

[O-ring]

cnidae once bubbled...


Triox? I thought we were talking about Nitrox in this thread?



So what could you teach about Nitrox at the ocean that you could'nt teach in the classroom? If the students need more water training on other skills would'nt you suggest them to take a different class? Personally I try to teach the Nitrox class as an add on to an existing class the student is already taking. But I've taught many Nitrox classes with no dives required. If someone has some valid reasons why dives should be conducted for a Nitrox class please give me some good reasons and maybe I'll start requiring them but until then I won't.
...but somehow it got agency oriented. I realize the original poster asked about agencies (specifically to do with nitrox), but I just don't see how this degraded to a GUE vs. TDI debate. GUE doesn't teach nitrox outside of triox or tech 1, do they?

IMHO, telling someone they shouldn't be using nitrox until they are ready for triox or tech 1 borders on lunacy.. Take a freakin TDI, PADI, or whatever class and get off air...then worry about whether or not you want to get some really good training with GUE..

[Scubaroo]

Exactly which GUE course teaches recreational nitrox? Why has GUE been brought into this thread?

:confused:

If it's of any help to the original poster, I did the TDI course and PADI course side-by-side just over a year ago.

The TDI materials suck, but the course covers more of the theory, and make you use the formulas, which is what I was interested in, as a basis for future tech-oriented courses. Great basis for advanced nitrox in future.

The PADI materials are great for recreational divers, you get the nice tables with the manual, the video is good, but they rely heavily on the tables for calculations and only present the formulas for reference.

Either would have sufficed for a useable understanding of nitrox. It isn't exactly rocket science.

I sat in on my fiance's nitrox course a few months ago with a different instructor, and it was taught basically the same way as when I took it.

PADI requires two dives, TDI none.

[joens]

O-ring once bubbled...

Take a freakin TDI, PADI, or whatever class and get off air...then worry about whether or not you want to get some really good training with GUE..
A basic nitrox class is a basic nitrox class. take whatever class is close to you ,meets your schedule,etc.
Joens

[reefraff]

What matters is will the student come out of the class with the knowledge and training to allow them to safely dive EAN mixes between 21% & 40%.

If we all rule out taking a class from an agency because somebody associated with it is a no-good beyond the pale stinkeroo poo-poo pants, both TDI and GUE are in deep trouble and PADI will rule the world.

Uh-oh - maybe that explains why PADI rules the world.

I haven't taken any classes from GUE or TDI, but hope to some day. Given a good instructor, I wouldn't hesitate to take a TDI nitrox course and if anyone thinks that the class is somehow lacking something important and relevant, I wish they would provide some particulars.

In the meantime, here's a hypothetical scenarior for consideration...

George and Bret are a couple of grizzled guys sitting at one end of the bar, watching the baseball game. They are arguing loudly about everything, including the skills of the players, the length of their bats and the stupidity of the fans. Getting too close to them can be unpleasant, since they seem to want to expand their personal argument to everyone in the bar.

At the other end of the bar, John and Ralph are nicely dressed, nicely spoken and watching the same game. They cheer whenever someone makes a good play no matter which team they are on and have sympathy for mistakes. They converse with the rest of the customers and are generally the life of the party.

If you knew very little about baseball, would you rather go to a game with George and Bret or with John and Ralph? Would it make any difference if you knew that George and Bret know far more about baseball than John and Ralph?


To quote O-Ring: Take a freakin TDI, PADI, or whatever class and get off air...

Steven

[Braunbehrens]

My point was not that you should take a GUE class for the nitrox card. My point was that most instruction is sub par. The original poster asked about which instruction is best. My answer was to take any old class that will give you a nitrox card, and then take a GUE class if you feel you need some training.

Feel free to disagree with me, if you like, but I can point to many many people who've taken a GUE F class who will all say that they've learned more in that class then in all their other classes.

This is just what my experience has been, I don't mean to offend anyone.

Hey Reefraff, I don't do spectator sports, but for the sports where I participate, I tend to look for the best instruction. I don't care if the guy teaching the class is "nice", I have plenty of friends already.....but all the GUE instructors I've met have been nice anyway.

[Israel Lee]

Devils Gas---- want more bottom time work on you BREATHING! NITROX IS COOL! and in my opinion thats about it. Dive safe and if you want a lift after the dive hit up on some 100% OX

[inletsurf]

Got my TDI Nitrox cert after passing a test over the internet. No big deal. Everyone who dives more than 60 feet on a regular basis should get nitrox certified.

PS It's only a nitrox cert. Some of you guys make it sound like it's nuclear physics or something.

[BigJetDriver]

There are, of course, two ways to view nitrox usage for divers. The first is to use nitrox as a breathing gas while running on air tables or computer settings. Will this give one a greater safety margin when it comes to DCI statistics? In fact it will, but the statistical decrease in the incidence rate is so minor as to be almost meaningless.

The second way is to use nitrox as a breathing gas while using nitrox tables or computers. This method will give you what divers everywhere want; more bottom time!

In addition, while there have been no definitive studies on the subject, there is enough anecdotal evidence from the field to say that: "Yes, you do just feel better at the end of the diving day!"

In closing, for the recreational scuba diver, PADI, NAUI, and the other recreational agencies offer a basic nitrox course that will allow the diver to use the "devil gas" safely. For the more inquiring diver who wants to learn more and go father afield so to speak, the technical agencies such as IANTD, TDI, NAUI's technical division, and GUE offer more (you'll pardon me, I hope) in depth training.