Running with Scissors

Moderators! Please leave this thread in “Basic Scuba Discussion” it’s about the buddy system not the dreaded “S” word!

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Is PADI warning new divers of things as basic as “Don’t run with scissors”?

In a recent thread, who’s title contained that dreaded and obscene (well, by PADI standards anyway) 4 letter word starting with “S”, the issue of PADI’s view on the buddy system was brought up. Since typing the “S” word here would immediately have this thread condemned to the bowels of a special forum for anti-social miscreants (like myself), I’ll have to spell the word with hyphens in between…

S-O-L-O

Now this thread isn’t about s-o-l-o diving, it’s about the harm PADI is doing by making this a taboo subject and going on and on and on about the dangers of being unattended by a buddy. Let’s face it; many buddies are “inattentive” to begin with so you are unattended anyway at times whether you planned it that way or not.

Many of us feel that PADI’s stance on s-o-l-o diving is really a PADI argument for the buddy system, or more accurately, for the PADI version of the buddy system –ie- “never mention a diver can be safe alone, insist that you are only safe with another diver, no matter how newly minted, just out of the box he or she is”.

A little history:
Back in the day, one of the first scuba certifying agencies was the YMCA and when they started teaching scuba they brought their complete swimming program over to their scuba syllabus. They had a rule in their swimming program, ‘Never swim alone; always swim with a buddy’ and that became ‘Never dive alone; always dive with a buddy.”

This rule wasn’t the result of countless hours of research backed up by reams of paper with statistical calculations filling both sides. It was just ‘that sounds like it applies’…” by whoever was converting the one course to the other.

My Views:
I think we, as instructors, should move the focus of the training to self-reliance, self-rescue and solving underwater problems underwater and making it a last resort to either run to a buddy or pop to the surface in an emergency. We should do this right from the start, from open water training, so the concept is instilled in newly minted open water divers.

Okay, now to the question! I’d like to hear from both open water divers and instructors what your opinion is.



Should we be teaching more self-reliance?

or

Is the current PADI version of the buddy system the correct approach?

If you think PADI advocates "the buddy system" wait until you take a GUE or UTD class!

I don't think "self-reliance" and "buddy system/team diving" are incompatible concepts. To the contrary, I think they are absolutely complementary and thus should be taught together. HOWEVER, you and I might differ on the definition of "self-reliance!"

Having just finished Fatal Depth I can't help but think that people who argue against "the buddy system" don't really understand it. Just because there are a lot of poorly trained buddies out there doesn't mean the system isn't good -- it merely means too many people don't get it.

Absolutely, more self reliance should be taught. It seems that every time the subject of solo diving vs buddy system arises they are treated in a mutually exclusive manner. This should not be the case. Any one who dives on a commercial dive boat can watch the "buddy system" at work - first the warning that there is no solo diving on this boat, then a procession of divers with cameras or spearguns totally oblivious to their buddies, or divers in the Caribbean swimming single file through "swim-throughs" (caves in reality), or buddies accidentally separated, or "meet you on the bottom" etc, etc. Nearly everyone is a solo diver at some time so why not be prepared with a little training, self-confidence, and redundancy. A diver who is competent alone will be a better buddy when called upon. It should not be a case of one or the other but both.

from that thread

It is important to clarify what responsible solo scuba diving is. PADI views it as a form of technical diving and not for everybody. To responsibly engage in solo scuba diving, a diver must first be highly experienced, have a hundred or so buddy accompanied scuba dives, be absolutely self-reliant and apply the specialized procedures and equipment needed to engage in the activity. This includes, but is not limited to redundant air sources, specialized equipment configurations, specific dive planning, and management of solo diving problems and emergencies. When solo diving is performed within this description, we see a place for it. Responsible solo diving is not diving alone without the mental discipline, attitude or equipment.

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(my highlights) ...From looking at it from a non solo divers viewpoint ... that looks reasonable to me

I was trained by a PADI instructor ... I believe a good buddy is a thinking tool kit that is not responsible for keeping me safe, but he is a resource that can be an asset when needed .. dive like a Boy Scout ... Be Prepaired
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Peter Guy:

If you think PADI advocates "the buddy system" wait until you take a GUE or UTD class!

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Not bloody likely!

JJ has made a fortune out of capitalizing on a concept he tripped over, while second-in-command of the WKPP.

Those who came before him, Sheck Exley, Wes Skiles, Lamar Hires, Woody Jasper, et-al, have far more experience in both solo diving and the issue of diving with a buddy. There were quite a few buddies on those early exploration dives that didn’t make it back. There are dives that are safer being conducted solo.

But that’s not the question in this thread, the question is should we teach more self-reliance, the type of skills we teach for solo diving or should we stick with what we have?

I think, buddy system or not, all divers should be taught self-reliance. If you get into trouble it would be nice to have a compentent buddy to help.... However, if the diver were taught to be more self-reliant then maybe the problem would not have gotten to the point of needing your buddies help.
So I think we should be able to fix/avoid our own problems... The buddy is just one more safety net that should not have to be used....

Could you be more exact on what you would add to the buddy system taught by PADI ?

I ask cause I'm pretty sure that my instructor advocated fixing problems underwater, that shooting to the surface was the poorest of last ditch options, and that we were responsible for our own wellbeing

D_B:

Could you be more exact on what you would add to the buddy system taught by PADI ?

I ask cause I'm pretty sure that my instructor advocated fixing problems underwater, that shooting to the surface was the poorest of last ditch options, and that we were responsible for our own wellbeing

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PADI doesn’t have a ‘standard curriculum’; it has ‘don’t miss these’ items. So, IMHO, by teaching and certifying with only buddy breathing (make that share air these days) and CESA’s and the like ‘required’ items we are teaching students ‘that’s what to do in an emergency’. PADI tends to frown on 'teaching above the strandard', I'm not sure why...

What I’d like to see, and what I’ve been thinking about including my courses, is more focus on redundancy, situational awareness, how to think through common problems, things like CO2 buildup where the correct approach is ceasing all movement. We would have to come up with specific skills to add to the standard to be sure they were included by all instructors, because that's the way the PADI system works.

This was a good question and it would be helpful for more ideas of things to add (by those who agree with the redundancy concept) in the open water classes. What other self sufficiency items would they add?

Bruce

I think that any OW diver would be much more competent and much safer if he or she had the skills to dive solo. It requires a degree of self reliance, preparedness and skill that woudl serve a diver on a buddy team very well when - not if - they end up separated.

I won't get into the DIR/GUE/UTD buddy issue other than to say, like every other technical dive training agency, every diver is trained and configured to have the ability to get themselves safely to the surface. Diving in a team may enhnace that ability, but it exists on its own.

I also agree completely with Cave Bum that some dives are safer when done solo.

How can you teach " more self-reliance' in 3 or 4 days, isn't there enuff to cover already in a very short period of time???..Isn't that the length of some courses these days???.......

Nice try, but as long as 'the mighty dollar' is in the equation, it'll never work.....btw, I now prepare every dive as a solo dive------you know, just in case-----(took me over 20 years to get into this mind set)