Dive Flag Awareness?

[offthewall1]

What Dive Flag Awareness?

If anyone out there thinks they are safe underwater because they are flying a dive flag or pulling one along with them on an upline... think again.

I often believe you're better off without a dive flag/float. Flying one from a boat can't hurt... but here is why NOT to pull a flag / float with you while diving... two stories.

1. While diving, my buddy was pulling a float with a flag sticking out of the top. Some idiot boater pulls up to it and starts pulling it up to see what was attached. Now we were diving in shallow water (30 feet) so the trip to the surface wasn't horrible... but imagine the look on the boaters face when my buddy surface bearing his knife...

This could have been a worse situation... being pulled up from depth... in which cutting yourself free or letting go of a held line would have been the options.. but

Imagine scenario

2. A boat inadvertantly runs over your line and begins spinning it up on their prop shaft. This could be a much faster trip up and with a much messier ending.

Now for the story of how 99% of boaters have either no knowledge or concern for Dive Flags.

I'm sitting on my boat. Flying both the international alpha and diver down flags. I've got a giant Diver Working Below float 50 feet off my bow and another 50 feet off my stern. I'm the only anchored boat within miles... and so...

... here comes the idiot boater (a wind fairy - under power). He cuts across my bow between the bow and the diver below float and damn near decapitates the diver working below in 11 feet of water. If I'd have had a shotgun I'd have put a round in the side of that boat.

Another story... treasure hunting with a float on my back (and my boat anchored nearby flying the two flags) in just 7 to 8 feet of water, I hear a boat motor approaching... so I surface to find a small runabout not more than 10 feet from me. The idiot on board yells over - what you lookin for? Does he realize he could have run me over.

All I can say is forget the flags and floats - they appear to attract idiots more than keep them away...

[DennisS]

If you dive without a flag in Florida, you get a ticket.

[k ellis]

Well I must say I never even was aware of what a dive flag was until I got in to diving. Luckily no bad stories to tell of how I hit anyone. But I do think they should make it mandatory that you have a boat operators license in which certain buoys lane of travel and basic safety should be taught.

Most boaters think a diver buoy is a trout line or something. This is one reason EVEN with the flag flying I listen for the sounds of motors and wont surface until the sounds have faded.

[DiveFlag = Target]

Beach dives I typically do without a flag. I agree that many boaters dont know what they are. Jet skiers can sometimes be even more of a problem. People also seem to think that the diver is exactly under the flag at all times?

[Walter]

What Dive Flag Awareness?

You are correct. That is the purpose of this forum.


A forum to discuss the various US state and international laws about Dive Flags, how to meet them and how to inform boaters to avoid them when on the water.

[nikwho]

Well, i have often thought that a dive flag could possibly attract more problems than it would ward off, but i still use one. I clip mine on a plastic clip to my bc when im not holding it. I would make it a point not to fasten it to your self too securely for safety reasons. It should pull off before yanking you to the surface or into a prop.

[DiveMom1]

Are you guys for real? Are you saying that the coast guard, etc don't teach this BEFORE they allow "idiots" to drive boats? I must clarify... I'm not saying all boat operators are idiots, this is refering to those "idiots" that also operate boats.

What needs to be done to rectify this?

[ScubaSteve2000]

Are you guys for real? Are you saying that the coast guard, etc don't teach this BEFORE they allow "idiots" to drive boats? I must clarify... I'm not saying all boat operators are idiots, this is refering to those "idiots" that also operate boats.

What needs to be done to rectify this?


Here in AZ you don't need pass a test or hold any kind of license to operate a boat - I think you have to be over 12 or have a note from your mother. You just need to have the boat registered with Game and Fish and, seeminlgy, copious amounts of cold beer. The best advice I can give is to treat diving in an area with boat traffic like you are diving in an overhead environment. I have a dive buddy who just sets his dive flag on the shore to mark his entery point and doesn't surface until he is in water shallow enough to stand in. (for you boaters out there that means about waist deep) When boat diving I kinda like the double dive bouy and shotgun approach. I'll suggest it to my buddies at the Scubateer's.

AZ dive flag laws have some idiosyncracys when compared to the laws in other states, not the least of which is they are merely suggestions without any kind of fine or penalties.

Steve.

[Gilldiver]

A nice large 25mm flare pistol works wounders. The first one goes in front of the boat, the second one doesn't.

[DatSRBoi]

I myself did not know what this flag was until I started looking into scuba. Are you required a flag in texas? I search and found nothing. I just brought one but I do think in texas 95% of boaters in my local lake has no idea what it is. Even jetski folks.

[SailNaked]

in Texas the jet skis use the flags as racing buoys. sometimes they will get a whole slalom course if you have your buddy carry one.

[dsdiving]

I too only fly a flag when I'm certain it's safe to do so. I've had my Dive Flag ripped from by a boat speeding by. Luckily, with a little of preparedness, I had the flag attached with a weak link(a hair scrunchie that I borrowed from my little girl) so that I wasn't pulled from 72' to the surface.
Here in British Columbia this was becoming such a major issue that just this year there is a new law that ALL boat operators must hold a recognized certification but this took 15 years to take full effect. There is no quick solution I realize but 15 years-COME ON!.
Although things are better than they were you still find the odd idiot on the water. I hate to be the one to say it but many of them are tourists from the U.S. (Maybe the U.S. has the same problem with the odd Canuck- I dunno.) In the Summer the Okanagan Lake becomes such a magnet for tourist (U.S. and Canucks alike) who really have no business being on the water. I think that overall level of knowledge and certification needs to be higher. Universally- any law is only as good as its Enforcement! If the Authorities are unwilling or unable ( lack of manpower) to enforce these Laws then this is as good as it gets. This leave us with Educating the public.

[Bonesnews]

Here in Nova Scotia you must take a safe boaters course, to obtain a licence to operate a boat no matter what size it is. I am pretty sure also that you as a new operator, are made aware of what a divers flag is there to represent. Someone also told me, who is an avid boater, that if you don't stay 100 ft away from the flag you can recieve a large fine and possibly loose your boat if the infraction is too severe. I personally think that if someone wants to be an idiot, they should have their boat confiscated and they should have to pay a $1000.00 fine and retake the course if they want their boat back.

[dalyup]

Universally- any law is only as good as its Enforcement! If the auhorities are unwilling or unable ( lack of manpower) to enforce these Laws then this is as good as it gets.

DSDIVING
I absolutely agree. I have yet to see the local lake patrol ever get on someone for the lack of awareness of "The Flag". Yet they are sure to point out that we must fly one.

[CCTX50]

Here is the Texas Law on dive flags.

§ 31.1021. OPERATING VESSELS IN SCUBA DIVING OR SNORKELING AREAS.

a) No person may operate a vessel within 50 feet of a buoy or of another vessel displaying a "diver down" flag that marks an area in which a person is scuba diving or snorkeling.

(b) No person may operate a vessel at a speed greater than the minimum speed necessary to maintain steerageway and headway while the vessel is within 150 feet of a buoy or a vessel displaying a "diver down" flag that marks an area in which a person is scuba diving or snorkeling.

(c) To be entitled to the protections of this section, a scuba diver or snorkeler must prominently display a "diver down" flag from a buoy or vessel.

(d) This section does not apply:
(1) to a person who is operating a patrol or rescue craft; or
(2) in an emergency.

(e) Subsection (a) of this section does not apply:
(1) to a person who is already operating a vessel in an area when another person displays a "diver down" flag within 150 feet of that vessel;
(2) to a person who is operating a vessel in a waterway that is less than 300 feet wide; or
(3) to a person who has permission to enter the area from the person who placed the buoy or the person who is operating the vessel displaying the "diver down" flag.

(f) In this section, "'diver down' flag" means a square or rectangular red flag, at least 15 inches by 15 inches, that has a diagonal white stripe.



In some places Texas Game Wardens will actually give the diver a citation if diving without displaying proper dive flag. Canyon Lake is one place I have heard of citations being issued to divers.

[dalyup]

Yea, but have you ever heard of a boat operator getting a ticket for running over a flag in Tx.
I've never heard of here in Okla.

[dalyup]

Like I said.... Lake patrol are quick to point out if we're in the wrong..... but not so much with the idiots that run over our flags!

[CCTX50]

Yes, boaters have received tickets for violating the safety zone. I have seen several get tickets at Canyon Lake and also Lake Travis. At Canyon Lake divers were complaining a lot about the boaters so they started getting tickets. Then the boaters started complaining about divers not using flags so the Game Wardens are issuing to both sides. "Just to keep it fair" they say.

[Skier-Diver]

Here in AZ you don't need pass a test or hold any kind of license to operate a boat - I think you have to be over 12 or have a note from your mother. You just need to have the boat registered with Game and Fish and, seeminlgy, copious amounts of cold beer. The best advice I can give is to treat diving in an area with boat traffic like you are diving in an overhead environment. I have a dive buddy who just sets his dive flag on the shore to mark his entery point and doesn't surface until he is in water shallow enough to stand in. (for you boaters out there that means about waist deep) When boat diving I kinda like the double dive bouy and shotgun approach. I'll suggest it to my buddies at the Scubateer's.

AZ dive flag laws have some idiosyncracys when compared to the laws in other states, not the least of which is they are merely suggestions without any kind of fine or penalties.

Steve.

Here in TN you don't have to have any kind of license to drive a boat, just be at least 12 years old, just like in AZ. I had heard they were going to start requiring people to have taken a certified training course if they were born after a certain date, but I don't know if it ever passed or not. I sold my boat and jet ski so I no longer keep up with the laws.