Fatality in Tobermory

[Boogie711]

I just got a phone call from a friend who wanted to confirm that it wasn't me. I hadn't heard about it.

I don't know many details - I found the Owen Sound radio station website - here is what I found from www.radioowensound.com.
_______________________________________
Autopsy to be done on diver killed in Tobermory over weekend

The autopsy on the diver killed in Tobermory takes place at 10 this morning. Police say they still have nothing to go on. 57 year old David Clarke was diving to the Arabia Friday evening at Fathom Five National Marine Park when he had some problems. The Thames centre man was on his first dive of the season with his son and some friends. Rescue personnel were called, but Clarke was dead by the time they brought him to shore.
________________________________________

Anyone know more? Truly sad news indeed.

[Boogie711]

Diving accident in Tobermory

Bruce Peninsula OPP, along with Parks Canada, are investigating the death of a thames Centre Man who was diving at Fathom Five National Marine Park. At about 6 pm Yesterday, a charter boat took several divers to the Arabia, lying in 110 feet of water in the park at Tobermory. 57 year old, David Clarke, was diving with his son and the divers when he experienced problems and an emergency ascent was made. The Dive boat called for help, and the National Marine Park Boat was used to transport Ambulance personnel to the dive site. The diver was pronounced dead when they reached the shore. The victim and his son have been diving for 2 years. This was their first dive of the season. A post mortem will be conducted to determine the cause of death.


http://www.radioowensound.com/new/newscentre/index.htm
(the link may be dead by the time you click it - that's why I posted the story text, above.)

[divebuddydale]

First dive of the season, and they chose to go to 110 ft. (kinda like the Muskie accident Diver Joe Adverted, which was a "first dive of the season") Go in for a shallow dive, check your equipent out at 30 feet or so, get reaquainted with your skills.


I will get off the soap box now.

Dale

[Aquabella]

divebuddydale once bubbled...

I will get off the soap box now.
Dale

Well Dale, you might want to take Boogie's example and wait for more details before you climb on the 'ol soap box. Dave was part of the group from London I dove with this weekend. Although, I'll let one of the other guys give the details if they choose to. Bito and I got to Toby after that dive.

I can say one thing, he was diving with a group of very experienced and skilled and divers.

Wait for the details before you start spouting off.

[Warren_L]

Geez, I just got back from Tobermory this evening .... didn't hear a thing about the accident while I was up there.

[Aquabella]

Before we get into any speculation I guess I'll post the information I know. Dave had a heart attack at depth. He had at least two buddies assist him and make an emergency ascent but had passed away before they got to the surface.

Dave was not old or obese, he was actually a runner. He was well liked in the group and will be sorely missed. My deepest sympathies go out to his son Scott who was on the dive and their family which I will be expressing in person at the funeral.

[taz22]

Aquabella once bubbled...
Before we get into any speculation I guess I'll post the information I know. Dave had a heart attack at depth. He had at least two buddies assist him and make an emergency ascent but had passed away before they got to the surface.

Dave was not old or obese, he was actually a runner. He was well liked in the group and will be sorely missed. My deepest sympathies go out to his son Scott who was on the dive and their family which I will be expressing in person at the funeral.

Sad when one of our own passes away. My heart felt sympathy to the family and friends of this fellow diver.

[Doppler]

Aquabella once bubbled...
Before we get into any speculation I guess I'll post the information I know. Dave had a heart attack at depth. He had at least two buddies assist him and make an emergency ascent but had passed away before they got to the surface.

Dave was not old or obese, he was actually a runner. He was well liked in the group and will be sorely missed. My deepest sympathies go out to his son Scott who was on the dive and their family which I will be expressing in person at the funeral.

Thanks for this information Aquabella. Please convey to Dave's son and the rest of his family and friends our regrets and sympathy.

A very tragic story and very easy to sit at home by the computer after a solid three days of safe diving and play quarterback. Lot's of factors may contribute to a heart attack and Dave's sudden death might serve as a bit of a wake-up call for some of us. Do we all watch our diet, get regular exercise -- arobic and anarobic -- do we all practice stress management in our everyday lives -- meditation as an example -- do we get annual check-ups from our family docs?

I'd like to think we all take this sport seriously enough to be as well prepared as possible for any dive; however, **** happens and that may be the case this time.

When I lived in Montreal, I used to compete against a guy running 1500 meters. Bugger always beat me. He dropped dead of massive heart failure at 32. He stood up from reading a magazine and keeled over -- dead. Sometimes, that's the way it is and no amount of second guessing is going to change things.

As for the first dive of the season thing... It's too easy to say that the Arabia is too much of a dive to start the season... we make personal determinations as to what is or what is not acceptable to us and act accordingly. Different folks make different decisions. My seasons tend to merge into one long season, but my first cold water dive of the Great Lakes season might raise a few eyebrows.

Anyhow, sad news for everyone involved and for our community as a whole

Doppler

[wetman]

Do you guys know how much thermal protection could play into heart attack situations? I wonder if the cold is a trigger for such things some times.

steve

[Groundhog246]

Certainly cold may have played a part. Your body as a whole and circulatory system in particular are going to be working harder to keep temps up.
My condolences to his friends and family, especially his son/buddy. IMHO, worse ways to go though, than while doing something you love.

[Butch103]

wetman once bubbled...
Do you guys know how much thermal protection could play into heart attack situations? I wonder if the cold is a trigger for such things some times.

steve
.......It would be interesting to see if this does have some effect on the heart. As for this gentleman, it sounds as if he was in pretty good shape.

Aquabella....please forward my condolences also. Very sad situation indeed.

I is hard to lose someone from our diving "family". Harder in these cases where it appears that the death had nthing to do with diving and it was just his time to move on to another stage in his life.

[Warren_L]

Doppler makes a good point. I run quite a bit and am training for a marathon this year, and I know of at least two runners that have had heart attacks or strokes who were in great physical condition, so no-one is immune to this.

As for the cold, it could certainly have a part in triggering a heart attack. I didn't go too deep this weekend myself, and the water temp was a comfortable 44 degrees at the first thermocline, but at 100' it would have been quite a bit colder....

[j-valve]

You never can tell. There is a charity marathon in Ottawa every year. This year and last a runner that was in shape and finnished in the top 100 died at the finish line from a hear attack. They were both avid runners and had trained for this event.

Dive safe

J

[sparky30]

I was just wondering what makes the Arabia such a difficult dive... I've never been to Toby yet (scheduled for later this year), but it seems that most of the accidents happen on the Arabia.. From what I gather its at around 110ft in cold water..
I frequently dive a wreck of Port Dalhousie (100ft, 40F deg at the bottom), and while its deep with short bottom times there is nothing particularly challanging about the dive.. (Assuming properly working equipment and appropriate exposure protection). What makes the Arabia so difficult that all the accidents happen there? Is there a current? Most accidents seem to happen near the wreck and not even inside/around it.. What am I missing... Its always sad to hear about dive accidents, but I'd like to learn something from it..

[wetman]

You know, you get nervous down there just wondering why so many deaths occur on it. That was pretty much going through my head the whole time on that wreck. Tobermorry is always cold, but i've heard the arabia can have different levels of current on it and vis can be good or bad. I guess if you get the worst of all scenarios it might be a good day to call it off at the block if you're not confident. Our day seemed to be bright enough down there and wasn't too much of a current to worry about so we were probably lucky. I hung at 80-90 feet just because i was a bit apprehensive about it - with no justified reason.

steve

[bridgediver]

my condolences to Dave's family as well as your group. It must be really hard for you all to be facing such a sad event. Everyone on the board is here to support you if you need it.
I never met Dave but I do know a few London area divers.

[mcrae]

I think you will find that the majority of fatalities on the Arabia, that were not caused by a medical condition, were divers that had no business being down there in the first place. They did not have the experience, equipment, etc. to be doing a dive in very cold water, and down that deep.

I have read all of the old OUC reports on some of these and in most cases they just were not prepared to dive there.
I also think that Narcosis probably played a part in many of the tragedies here. Fixating on equipment problems etc and forgetting to watch their air.

Given decent conditions a properly trained, equipped diver following a proper dive plan should have no difficulty.

It really is a nice dive but you need to be prepared for it.

[ScubaJo]

I never had the pleasure of meeting Dave yet... :( My condolences to the family... please pass mine along Aquabella...

[on my way wanda]

Aquabella once bubbled...
Before we get into any speculation I guess I'll post the information I know. Dave had a heart attack at depth. He had at least two buddies assist him and make an emergency ascent but had passed away before they got to the surface.

Dave was not old or obese, he was actually a runner. He was well liked in the group and will be sorely missed. My deepest sympathies go out to his son Scott who was on the dive and their family which I will be expressing in person at the funeral.

My deepest sympathy goes to the family and friends. Please give the family my condolences when you see them at the funeral. Dave well be very much missed to all that know him. He will be in my thoughts always.

[cobaltbabe]

It is never good to lose a friend. We need to take care of the people who cared for this person. Bella, if there is anything you need, even just a ear to listen, please call. You have my number.

[HappyDiversDen]

The Arabia is not a difficult dive ... t'is right the conditions can vary each time you're on it, and the most common problem we see on it is infrequent or inexperienced divers mistaking the sound of air drawn through their first stage for a free flow when the water turns very, very quiet, as it does on occassion.

The 2 most common problems on the Arabia, or any other deep dive?

1 - When low on air ('cause they haven't monitored their instrumentaton), divers tend to swim around and around looking for the ascent line and burn up the rest of their air (ascent on any deep, single tank dive should start at 1000 psi). The Arabia's not an overhead environment, and divers forget they can make a direct ascent to the surface in the unlikely event they run low on air and can't find their buddy.

2 - The dive is beyond their CURRENT experience level, regardless of rating or number of dives logged.

-------

To the family of this unfortunate accident, may I express the heartfelt condolances of my LDS for their loss. Perhaps it would comfort them to think that "Death is not extinguishing the Light ... it is simply putting out the lamp because the dawn has come."

----------

[snuggle]

my thoughts go with his familly at this difficult time ..and mcrae ..it would of been nice to just give your condolences instead of your opinion..

[divebuddydale]

Don't get me wrong, my condolences go out to the family and his dive buddies. It saddens me when a fellow diver dies.

I just think sometimes we take too many risks (however not in this case).

Dale

[canuckdiver]

My condolances also go out to the family.

sometimes these things happen, and it is entirely out of our control, this sounds like one of those situations.

aquabella, if you need anything at all, you also know where I am, ok?

[gadget]

Owen Sound article - Quite Informative (http://www.owensoundsuntimes.com/webapp/sitepages/content.asp?contentid=35706&catname=Local+news)

[Ontario Diver]

My thoughts and deepest feelings go out to the family and friends that are affected.

I never meet Dave but he and I (and others on this board) pursued a love of being underwater. May he be accepted into bright company.

[Boogie711]

I guess the question is - what causes a pulmonary oedema of submersion?

For posterity I'll post the text from the Owen Sound Sun Times article:

______________________________________________

Man dies exploring shipwreck


Buildup of fluid in the lungs responsible for 57-year-old diver’s death

Bill Henry

Monday, June 23, 2003 - 08:00

Local news - A relatively inexperienced scuba diver has died exploring the wreck of the Arabia off Tobermory.

A post-mortem Sunday found that David Clarke, 57, of Thames Centre east of London died Friday when his lungs filled with fluid internally.

The unusual condition, known as pulmonary oedema of submersion, has been increasingly attracting attention within the diving community, coroner Dr. George Harpur said Sunday afternoon.

“It’s a phenomenon in which you can acutely develop a problem with too much fluid in your lungs, not from drowning but from inside the body, kind of an internal form of drowning,” he said.

Clarke, a certified diver for just two years, his son and several others were diving from the charter boat The Lark in Fathom Five National Marine Park on Friday.

He was a fit and active man who had made fewer than 30 dives since certification. He was in 110 feet of water at about 6 p.m. when he ran into trouble breathing, Harpur said.

“He wasn’t a terribly experienced diver, but he had been on dives of at least 90 feet in these waters. This was deeper than he’d been before, but he had been in this kind of water.”

Clarke abandoned his breathing equipment as if it were not working, then discarded a second device given to him by his diving buddy. There were no obvious signs of life when he was brought to the surface.

Paramedics were called and arrived at the dive ship on a marine park vessel. Clarke was taken ashore, where he was later pronounced dead by the coroner.

“While he may have been panicked for a short while, (Clarke) died very quickly,” said Harpur, a former military diver and an expert in diving medicine. ”He died of lack of oxygen as a consequence of fluid on the lungs.”

Both discarded breathing units still had an adequate air supply, although an investigation will look at if they malfunctioned, possibly because of the extremely cold water, Harpur said.

Harpur said until the investigation is complete, it’s too soon to circulate information within the diving community which might help avoid similar deaths.

He said it’s unlikely an inquest will be necessary.

“Most of the factors are already recognized and fairly well known,” Harpur said. “There were factors involved that we have already circulated . . . like not making your first dive of the season to 33 metres and making sure that when you do dive to that kind of depth, that you’ve acquired adequate experience before you get there.”

The depth of the water probably played at least a psychological role, although the condition which caused the man’s lungs to fill with fluid is not related to deep water.

“It’s not related to depth at all, it’s related just to being submersed in water. It’s related to the fact that it’s cold and it’s related to the fact that you’re a male over the age of 45,” said Harpur, a master diving instructor and medical advisor to several diving associations.

Clarke’s was the third diving death in Ontario this year, the first in Tobermory. It was also the second recreational diving death. The other was on a commercial diving site.

Divers make about 25,000 to 30,000 dives each year at Fathom Five National Park, about half the annual total of several years ago, Harpur said. He did not know what percentage make deep dives, but said the Arabia is “a very popular site.”

Two divers died last year near Tobermory. Novice diver Scott Jamieson, 33, of Kitchener died almost exactly a year ago. His body was found on the deck of the wreck of the Forest City.

Michel Guerin, 42, of Pickering died in mid-May while diving off Lighthouse Point in Fathom Five Park.

[Groundhog246]

A quick search turned up this Pulmonary oedema (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=PubMed&cmd=Display&dopt=pubmed_pubmed&from_uid=12637860)
Appears to be cold water & pressure related, and possibly affected by higher PPO2 and quite rare.

[ScubaJo]

hmm. I can't attach PDF's to this thread...

If anyone is interested in reading up on pulmonary edemas specific to scuba (Groundhog's papers), I have the full texts downloaded. PM me and I can send them to you. A horrible way to learn about such a condition...

[Warren_L]

I'm not really familiar with pulmonary edema of submersion, but pulmonary edema is often a result of a heart attach. The pulmonary edema itself can be caused by increased venous pressure forcing fluid into the alveoli in the lungs, effectively drowning the victim. Why would venous pressure increase? Might be because of the heart not pumping properly (or at all) during a heart attack. Blood is moved back to the heart through muscular contractions that squeeze the veins forcing blood through towards the heart, increasing venous pressure should the heart not pump blood out through the arteries. Also, perhaps in cold water the sudden drop in temperature was strong enough to shock the heart into stopping, or perhaps there was some significant arterial contractions that were able to restrict blood flow enough to raise the venous pressure to cause the edema.

[Aquabella]

thanks guys, I'll pass along your sentiments.

Jo's articles are very informative, you guys should pm her for them. *sigh* maybe we can get one of the docs down here to weigh in...this whole thing has me, and I'm sure some of the others, kind of freaked.

[sparky30]

Please don't let the accident freak you out. Its tragic, that's for sure, but we can learn from it and try to give it a positive spin as much as possible. Personally I will do some more reading on pulmonary edema. Keeping your skills up is another thing I learned. 30 dives in two years doesn't sound like much. I've been diving for 12 months this weekend and I have just under 80 dives. To be honest I wouldn't call that frequent either.. I make sure that I get my dives in a variety of different environments.. Not all at the same spot. I also built my depth slowly and comfortably, and I wouldn't do a 100 ft dive as my first dive of the season. In between open water dives I try to get into the pool as often as possible and I do all kinds of drills. From valve shutdowns to mask removals and buddy breathing.. its fun and most skils become almost a reflex. THe big thing to remember is that when it stops being fun, call off the dive. So many people seem to forget that.. If something doesn't feel right, call it off...I'd rather be called a chicken and an idiot back on the dive boat, than be the person in the body bag. I think we could all learn from diving accidents. The thing is not to let it freak you out. There are always risks in life.. Diving has even more risks.. You just have to manage the risks properly and try to reduce them as much as possible.

[DivingGal]

Aquabella once bubbled...
thanks guys, I'll pass along your sentiments.

Jo's articles are very informative, you guys should pm her for them. *sigh* maybe we can get one of the docs down here to weigh in...this whole thing has me, and I'm sure some of the others, kind of freaked.

I'll let the "Docs" know of the interest here for more information... understandably they don't often wander outside the Medical Forum.

In the mean time, here's an article from Diving Medicine OnlinePulmonary Edema etc (http://scuba-doc.com/newsletter.html#Pearl) I get the newsletters from Diving Medicine Online and found them very informative in expanding my knowledge of conditions associated with diving.

[Doppler]

sparky30 once bubbled...
Please don't let the accident freak you out. Its tragic, that's for sure, but we can learn from it and try to give it a positive spin as much as possible. Personally I will do some more reading on pulmonary edema. Keeping your skills up is another thing I learned. 30 dives in two years doesn't sound like much. I've been diving for 12 months this weekend and I have just under 80 dives. To be honest I wouldn't call that frequent either.. I make sure that I get my dives in a variety of different environments.. Not all at the same spot. I also built my depth slowly and comfortably, and I wouldn't do a 100 ft dive as my first dive of the season. In between open water dives I try to get into the pool as often as possible and I do all kinds of drills. From valve shutdowns to mask removals and buddy breathing.. its fun and most skils become almost a reflex. THe big thing to remember is that when it stops being fun, call off the dive. So many people seem to forget that.. If something doesn't feel right, call it off...I'd rather be called a chicken and an idiot back on the dive boat, than be the person in the body bag. I think we could all learn from diving accidents. The thing is not to let it freak you out. There are always risks in life.. Diving has even more risks.. You just have to manage the risks properly and try to reduce them as much as possible.


Sparky: with that attitude and outlook, you stand an excellent chance of becoming a "seasoned and respected" veteran. :)

Keep practicing the skills until the muscle memory kicks in. And take notes... fill you log book with notes on how you felt and what you learned as often as possible.

And as for bailing on a dive.... remember the technical diver's credo:

ANYONE CAN CALL ANY DIVE AT ANY TIME FOR ANY REASON WITHOUT FEAR OF REPROACH.

Take care and dive safe.

doppler

[Groundhog246]

Doppler once bubbled...
And as for bailing on a dive.... remember the technical diver's credo:

ANYONE CAN CALL ANY DIVE AT ANY TIME FOR ANY REASON WITHOUT FEAR OF REPROACH.


Didn't realize this was a "technical" credo, our LDS has always said the same. Our 14 year old called his 4th dive on his OW cert. On surfacing, said his feet were too cold (water was 41F) and he was having trouble concentrating. His instructor praised it as a wise decision, made sure he was ashore safely and continued the dive with his buddy. Will be making up the missed dive soon.

Maybe we should move the Oedema discussion to the medical forum. There's are lot of reading in the information posted so far.

[on my way wanda]

Doppler once bubbled...



Sparky: with that attitude and outlook, you stand an excellent chance of becoming a "seasoned and respected" veteran. :)

Keep practicing the skills until the muscle memory kicks in. And take notes... fill you log book with notes on how you felt and what you learned as often as possible.

And as for bailing on a dive.... remember the technical diver's credo:

ANYONE CAN CALL ANY DIVE AT ANY TIME FOR ANY REASON WITHOUT FEAR OF REPROACH.

Take care and dive safe.

doppler

Remember !!! If not comfortable with a dive don't do it. I called a dive in Gilboa doing my OAW. It was a one day trip there and back. I was not able to equilize well and the cold water clouded my thinking, we ended up aborting the dive and I stayed at the surface for the rest of the day. lesson to be learned

[mglasspo]

The number of dives a person gets in in two years will vary depending on a lot of things, their available time, the fact that they may be renting gear. I've got just over 30 dives in and am working to increase that considerably. This is my 3rd year in the water. I have dived with advanced level divers (same cert that I have) that have 9 dives under their belt.. that sounds like all their checkouts and that's it. I know since I've bought gear my dive frequency has been increasing steadily. I'm trying every second weekend.

As for calling the dive, if you don't call a dive when you don't feel up to it, you're just plain dumb. One of my buddies was surprised I wasn't upset at him when he had trouble equalizing and spent 30 minutes of the dive at the 10-20ft range trying to equalize, I told him that I wouldn't be much of a buddy if I were mad at him for something as trivial as that.

[danielle]

thats pretty shocking... my condolences go out to the family. My mom was actually up there last weekend, but she didnt hear anything about it. My dad dives the arabia all the time and being that we are from London aswell (i live in montreal now though my parents still live in London) it just hits a little close to home.
my prayers are with the family ... its always hard when we loose another member of the scuba community!

[Aquabella]

You guys are right on with the advice and I apprieciate it. The thing is I don't really consider it an 'accident'. The conditions were good on the dive, he had previous experience in Toby at the same time of year so I don't consider the cold to be an issue. The dive was going just fine, he didn't panic. It was a medical issue and one that seems to be totally related to diving. That's the part I find scary.

[divebuddydale]

Aquabella once bubbled...
You guys are right on with the advice and I apprieciate it. The thing is I don't really consider it an 'accident'. The conditions were good on the dive, he had previous experience in Toby at the same time of year so I don't consider the cold to be an issue. The dive was going just fine, he didn't panic. It was a medical issue and one that seems to be totally related to diving. That's the part I find scary.

The cold could have been an issue (even though he had experienced it before). It could have added to the factors. Kinda like food allergies (i.e Peanuts) you can eat them for years, then all of a sudden you have an anaphalctic (sp?) episode with peanuts. It could be a build up effect.

Just some musings

Dale

[danielle]

divebuddydale once bubbled...


The cold could have been an issue (even though he had experienced it before). It could have added to the factors. Kinda like food allergies (i.e Peanuts) you can eat them for years, then all of a sudden you have an anaphalctic (sp?) episode with peanuts. It could be a build up effect.

Just some musings

Dale


dale has a point

this probably has nothing to do with what happened... but sometimes equipment fails too ....i mean you could do the same dive locataion 20 times but during dive 21 something could go wrong with your equipment .... anything can happen under the water.

[snuggle]

you are so right on that..it doesnt matter how experinaced you are anything can happen when you dip below the water..

[Boogie711]

Equipment malfunctions do not kill people.

Peoples reaction to their equipment malfunctioning is what kills them.

God bless the guy, but there's no way a diver with 30 dives should be doing a 100 foot dive in the cold water of Tobermory for his first dive of the year. Only he and God know what really happened, but any equipment 'boo - boo' can add an exponential amount of stress.

I was diving tonight with Groundhog246 (and his lovely wife) in a local quarry. Max depth, 25 feet - perfect for skills training, etc. Halfway through the dive, his mouthpiece falls off. He calmly reached for his octo and kept going. I didn't even realize anything happened until later when I noticed he was breathing off his octo.

My point is - say that happens at 75 feet. Groundhog246 didn't worry about it because hey - it's 25 feet. Worst case scenario, he's doing an ESA. No big deal. He was in warm, familiar waters, and he totally didn't panic. But he KNOWS now that he needs to repair his mouthpiece - and it's not likely to happen again.

If Groundhog had gotten into 110 feet of freezing water and felt his mouthpiece fall off because he had a bad zip tie or whatever, he's facing a lot more stress. A lot more stress leads to increased respiration, your heart is working harder, your panic level starts to rise - BAM.

(Sorry Kent - I hope that NEVER happens! :) )

That being said - hey, I don't know. Maybe it was something that could have happened at that exact moment, whether he was in 100 feet, 10 feet or asleep in his bed. We don't know, and I'm not making assumptions in this particular case.

I do take offense to the notion that equipment failure is somehow 'accepted' as a reason to have a dive accident.

[danielle]

Boogie711 once bubbled...
Equipment malfunctions do not kill people.

Peoples reaction to their equipment malfunctioning is what kills them.

I do take offense to the notion that equipment failure is somehow 'accepted' as a reason to have a dive accident.


i never said that all dive accidents happen because of equipment malfunction .... all i was saying is that since the girl said that this guy had done the dive a year before and nothing bad happend she was really doubting it was the cold water... and all i was saying is that you could do the same dive 20 times... but all it takes is that one time and something goes wrong... be it a health condition... or equipment failure and yes how one reacts to their equipment failing could kill them. thats all i was saying.. i wasnt blaming equipment malfunction... was stating unpredictabillity while under the water.

[Groundhog246]

I'm with Aquabella on the "medical issue" as opposed to a dive accident. However, I gotta respond to he comment that he did it at the same time last year. Spring is running a lot later than last year and the water temps in
Tobermory (and elsewhere) are much colder than the same time last year. So in effect he dove 3 weeks earlier this year, temp wise, even if close to the same calendar date.

Boogie, I'd "hope" that my response in 75 feet to something so minor as the mouthpiece popping off would be the same except I would end of the dive. I'll also note, before someone critics Boogie's buddy skills. We were diving a threesome and at the time it happened he was on the right, me on the left and my wife in the center, so he didn't have a close up view of me. My wife did see the problem, almost before I realized it and had her octo out and ready almost faster as I had my hand on my own.

[crispos]

Why is the Arabia perhaps more dangerous than that Port Dalhousie Sparky mentions? Both are same depth, same cold temperature, same low viz most of the time, and both are smaller wooden ships (barques?).

Having done both wrecks recently, I think the Arabia has an additional dangerous quirk of having very high sides with the deck planking caved in and the wreck sitting straight up on what looks like a rock bottom.

If the viz is low that day, it is very easy to lose sight of your buddy, even if you turn away just for a minute. If you lose your buddy, then it adds to the other stress and hazards well documented by others on this thread.

The buddy may have gone down the outside of the side, down the inside, along the gunwhale (which way?) or maybe even over to the other side, or under the bow section). Or maybe they went to the line? The problem is you won't know unless you have good buddy procedures, communication and a solid dive plan. Of course, getting set up with a new buddy (or buddies!) on the boat often exacerbates this problem.

The Port Dalhousie wreck has intact planking and sits in the silt so it is lower. The lines of sight make it perhaps just abit easier to see things.
I plan to dive it again soon to test my theory. It is a great little wreck.

[DeepScuba]

Sparky30 is a friend of mine, and he and I have done over a dozen dives on the "Tiller" as we call it, in Port Dalhousie. I have also done the Arabia a couple of times, (the most recent being 5 days after this last fatality).

My first thoughts are that the two are similar in depth only. Sure the temps are close, but the Tiller has never had any current to speak of, as is suprisingly clear and bright usually. The Arabia is generally fairly dark, and can go from mild to quite a brisk current from one dive to the next. My first time on it, I saw one side only, it was so dark and turbulent, we spent what seemed like 10 minutes swimming into the current, and 3 seconds coming back!!!! My dive buddy (Wife) called the dive a little early for me, but it was just as well. Live to dive another day.

Spark is right about calling a dive if you feel you have to. He also know no-one he dives with would say a word to the negative, either.

WOW Spark-a-licous, 80 dive in 12 months!!!! I WOULD call that a frequent diver, especially from someone that doesn't work in the industry.
Shoot, I'd better hurry up or you're gonna pass me :-)

Not that we're competing, of course :-)

Now get that boat in the water!!!!!