How important is a buddy?

I am sure this has been discussed before. I looked around a bit, but didn't see too much. I agree 100% about out of air, getting snagged, or possibly helping with a narced diver. The deeper you go the more difficult help could be to recieve. If your 100 or heck 40 feet feet and have a stroke, or other health related issue how much could a buddy really do? I forgot the statistics, but don't the majority of divers drown in a mere 30ft of water? I realize the deeper you are the closer you should be.... Just wondering your typical insta buddy for example. Even in an air out situation at 100 feet, at least in the experience I've had with insta buddies I think the majority would'nt be too much help.

A good buddy can turn an enjoyable experience into something sublime.

A bad buddy can literally kill you.

You'll need to define your terms a bit more narrowly in order to gain anything useful from a discussion on the topic.

This subject is one on which agreement will never be reached - opposing viewpoints are fiercely held and vehemently defended on this board.

All participants in this thread are encouraged to respond to one another respectfully.

Regards,

Doc

responsibly having a buddy is good, with a buddy you dont know at all you usually are ok but some instances a buddy could cause problems. it depends on your skills too

LOL, I don't want an out of control discussion here... I am just thinking of a few different situations in my head. The first being a 25ft. max depth solo dive I am considering. Actually I will have a snorkler above me. I try and think of every situation that I could have and at that depth could a buddy really help me? Out of air? I don't think thats an issue at 25ft. Hit my head or somehow render myself uncouncious. Could a buddy get me to the surface and 2 the boat before I drown? Medical emergency? Same as unconcious..... Getting snagged or stuck/ attacked by local wildlife is the only thing I could see really recieveing any help from at that depth. Moving deeper. 100Ft. for example. OOA situation. Unless your buddy is right next to you, how long could an average diver last while trying to signal/get too a buddy when he/she is on their last breath? Now I am talking about running out, not catching yourself with a few hundred psi left. Getting stuck or snagged on something I can see....Helping with narcosis I could see. Any form of medical emergency at that depth would be difficult for me to see recieveing help from a buddy that could save your life.
All in all I would think a "good" buddy woul be a hell of a lot better than no buddy. A bad buddy could definitely get you killed or close to it. 2 heads are almost always better than one. Just wanting to see some others opinions on this matter.

OnceLoyal:

All in all I would think a "good" buddy woul be a hell of a lot better than no buddy. A bad buddy could definitely get you killed or close to it. 2 heads are almost always better than one. Just wanting to see some others opinions on this matter.

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Dealing with some of your points in reverse order, one of the common themes people may see after a few months of reading the Accidents and Incidents forum is that many accidents start with a small problem that starts a cascade of additional issues until the something uncontrollable and catastrophic happens. A good buddy can help deal with some of those early minor issues. There's probably even a psychological benefit to helping someone cope with the cascade if they have a reasonable confidence that worse come to worse, someone is nearby with some breathable air.

OnceLoyal:

Moving deeper. 100Ft. for example. OOA situation. Unless your buddy is right next to you, how long could an average diver last while trying to signal/get too a buddy when he/she is on their last breath? Now I am talking about running out, not catching yourself with a few hundred psi left.

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A lot of relative newcomers to diving may not have been made aware that your blood system is normally pretty close to saturated with all the oxygen it can carry, and that this is actually enough to carry you over for quite a while. Also, although a lot of people don't know this, it's not lack of oxygen that makes you want to take a breath, it's a buildup of carbon dioxide. What this means is that the average person is generally capable of easily holding their breath for a minute or more with maybe just a bit of practice to learn to control that 'I gotta breathe now' feeling. In addition, at 100', your lungs are also filled with about 4x as much oxygen as they would be on the surface. So what this is all getting at is that if you should ever have an issue under water, this information should give you some confidence that you've got more time than you may have thought to resolve things, rather than frantically doing the first thing that comes automatically, or worse, panicking.

That being said, some people have posted here on SB about drills they've tried, and yes, it won't be easy for most people to swim 10 or 20 yards on unexpectedly empty lungs (which are actually still 75-80% full). But usually possible, if you're sufficiently motivated. :blinking:

Thx Bleeb. Those are some good points. I just read the thread "Running with scissors" and it brought up some good points.

OnceLoyal:

25ft. Hit my head or somehow render myself uncouncious. Could a buddy get me to the surface and 2 the boat before I drown?

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I don't see why any relatively confident diver shouldn't be able to get you at least to the surface, inflate your BCD and make sure that you are not floating face down. Any OWD should also have practised towing a diver. If they are in any way trained as a rescue diver or in basic first aid, they may even be able to do more for you.

OnceLoyal:

100Ft. for example. OOA situation. Unless your buddy is right next to you, how long could an average diver last while trying to signal/get too a buddy when he/she is on their last breath? Now I am talking about running out, not catching yourself with a few hundred psi left.

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You buddy should be close to you, otherwise I wouldn't call him / her a buddy. If you had been diving as a buddy team, your buddy would also roughly know your air pressure and remind you to ckeck it if you don't - so chances are, even if you yourself are extremely careless, you won't ever run out of air. In case of a sudden equipment failure, it's very likely that there will be some sound, bubbles all over the place, so unless your buddy was out of sight and out of ear range (in which case you don't have a buddy anyway) he / she would probably notice that something was wrong now.

So except for sudden death at 100ft or something like that, in all your scenarios your buddy may actually be of some use.

OnceLoyal:

LOL, I don't want an out of control discussion here... I am just thinking of a few different situations in my head. The first being a 25ft. max depth solo dive I am considering. Actually I will have a snorkler above me. I try and think of every situation that I could have and at that depth could a buddy really help me? Out of air? I don't think thats an issue at 25ft. Hit my head or somehow render myself uncouncious. Could a buddy get me to the surface and 2 the boat before I drown? Medical emergency? Same as unconcious..... Getting snagged or stuck/ attacked by local wildlife is the only thing I could see really recieveing any help from at that depth.

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For the inexperienced diver, by far the greatest risk is having something go wrong ... or be startled by something ... and in a momentary flight of panic, bolt to the surface while forgetting to breathe. You'd be dead before that snorkeler even realized what was going on.

It happened to a relatively new diver here a coupla years ago ... he also thought he'd be safe if he kept it to less than 30 feet. He was wrong.

Everything will go fine ... until it doesn't. A buddy can do more than physically help you ... sometimes just the mental aspect of having another human being present is the difference between keeping your cool or having a momentary mental meltdown.

When things go wrong, they can go wrong very quickly. The purpose of getting bottom time before attempting solo is to give you a chance to "rewire" your fight or flight instinct so that your first response is to stop and think about the problem, rather than bolting for the safety of the surface. Keep in mind, our instincts are the product of millenia of conditioned responses designed to keep us alive. The problem is that what keeps us alive on the surface can easily kill us underwater. We need to adapt our instincts to the new environment.

That takes practice ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

OnceLoyal: You are asking really valid questions, but as Doc said, these types of questions can get very heated responces (but so far the responces have been very good). Since your 2nd post seems to indicate you are asking about buddies because you are interested in solo diving, you may wish to post this in the solo section of the board.... but it is a good topic for the "basic scuba discussions" because a wider audience will see it...

NWGratefulDiver has great reply above. I enjoy solo diving, but I recognize the increased risks, try to minimize them as best I can, but in the end acknowledge that there are situations you can find yourself in that only a buddy can save you from, and if one of these happen while you are solo, it is over.

Best wishes.

Buddy skills, and the inclination to have or improve them, vary among divers. Some people view buddying up as optional or a formality; others of us dive as teams, and take buddy skills very seriously. If you are paired with an "instabuddy" on a boat, one of the things to talk about before you get in the water is what your respective views of "buddydom" are -- how close do you stay, what gas reserves do you maintain, etc.

I've had buddies help me with loose or maladjusted equipment, with leaks that developed during the dive, with a freeflow, and with navigational decisions when I got disoriented. Except for the last two, they were all things I could either have fixed myself, or terminated a dive comfortably with, but it was nicer to have a buddy there to help. In addition, I enjoy my dives more for having a like-minded buddy to share them with.

Like many people on this board, I would strongly discourage your idea of a solo dive, until you had quite a bit more experience. As Bob says, it's the possibility of panic in the face of something unforeseen that is the real danger.