The Passion inspired by Nekton Dive Cruises

I am amazed at the passion with wich people argue over Nekton dive cruises. I don't understand how two ugly boats could generate such heated debate, I don't care that much and I worked on booth boats for about a year. You can't seem to post a trip report good or bad without someone comming on and telling the world how wrong you are.

I have not noticed this with other operations, mabey I need to explore more.

I have opinions on the operation, but I wont express them here for turning this into another argument. I would rather know I people who have no stake in the company argue so passionatly one way or the other.

Please tell me, I would love to know

johndg8:

I have not noticed this with other operations, mabey I need to explore more.

Please tell me, I would love to know

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johndg8: I think the above statement says it all. Look at Aggressor, PH and Explorer trip reports and they are 95+% positive. Not so with Nekton. So there has to be a reason why. Don't look at just one or two reports. Look at a bunch and don't be swayed by a couple bad ones. Regardless, it appears that Nekton has way more than their pro-rata share of problems. To me, that's indicative of poor management, poor training and a shortage of resources.

I do 3-4 liveaboarda a year and will never do a Nekton. Just too much of a risk of getting a bad trip.

I'm sure that many will disagree with me, but I'm voting with my $$$.

BTW: Welcome to scubaboard!!

johndg8:

Please tell me, I would love to know

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In that it's of your first posts on ScubaBoard, you might not know this, but quite often people start threads (or pile-on) on message boards just to beat a dead horse, sometimes it is to possibly further an agenda.

Former employees? Any number of heels speak poorly of their "starter wives". Maybe similar to that high school job we all took at Mickey D's? As in, "Man... that was an ugly job!"

The passion? Working on the Nekton (or any liveaboard... even a cruise ship as a dive instructor) is a meat grinder. Liveabaods are just not pleasant experiences for the crew. A high percentage of crew we encounter are foreign nationals- who savor this job as a real plum.

Not so on the Nekton. Being the only US Flagged liveaboard working, having it's main office within a mile of the largest PADI IDC program around (another one of the two monster PADI IDC's that just recently closed was also just down the street)- you have a ready supply of starry-eyed kids with ink-not-yet-dry OWSI Certificates skipping down the street to apply for their first big job... return on that IDC Investmemnt~ and so fast!

What could be better? As a newly minted PADI Instructor, there's a US corporation just down the street that is hiring me on this glamorous and very unique liveaboard. Count me in! I got myself a job in the dive industry!

The reality of a beginning job in the dive industry quickly sets in.

What appears as and works out to be a marvelous opportunity for a Central American, a Caribbean Islander or other foreign national is a treasured job. For a nice fresh-faced American kid... the reality of life sets in pretty hard and fast and maybe the magic wasn't as they had imagined. All but the motivated best just give it up and head home. I understand stated anger over not getting paid, but I don't understand how that takes a year to sink in.

The noob crew members who make their bones move-on to better dive industry jobs located in island paradises. The better crew members who feel they fit-in might stick around and become part of the managerial staff. Those who find that these and similar entry level industry positions aren't for them usually figure it out and move back home to alternative pursuits.

I also understand that after many successful trips, you're going to have some sporadic mechanical issues. The ship has had two in the last few months that caused an understandable fuss! These infrequent reports should not be confused with a large volume of complaints from un-paid ex-employees. Two different topics, but the volume of the ex-employee pay complaints far outnumbered the specific complaint events by passengers.

I wouldn't concern myself too much with why people do it, the reasons float to the surface eventually.

Some passengers have had reason to report a week with incidents, but not many. Outward appearances? Some passengers do not undrestand that they are sailing on an all metal boat where different types of metal cause cosmetically unappealing surface corrosion that looks icky. Hard to compare a square steel & aluminum box serving as a diving machine to a fiberglass and Teak cabin cruiser. Some people do, but most don't understand the differences in the required construction and materials. Being US Flagged, the US Coast Guard thinks it's okay.

I have opinions on the operation, but I wont express them here for turning this into another argument. I would rather know I people who have no stake in the company argue so passionatly one way or the other.

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I believe in the lead sentence you offered quite the opinion! Kind of like calling your "starter wife", ugly.

Why do people who have no stake in the company, such as I, argue? Because I want to see what is overall a historically good product recover from a stumble and continue to offer interesting (and very unique) options in the dive world. Other people's motivations seem to be to kill it forever. They have done a good job, so far. To what benefit ?

Passion, you ask ? The dictionary arguably doesn't support the best use of that word here. How about: "emotion" ?

e·mo·tion (i-moshen)
An emotion is a mental and physiological state associated with a wide variety of feelings, thoughts, and behavior. Emotions are subjective experiences, or experienced from an individual point of view. Emotion is often associated with mood, temperament, personality, and disposition.

Here's my take on it: http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/4684451-post34.html

I very much want to see them succeed. First, because I had a really great time on my trip a couple of weeks ago. Second, because it is the only liveaboard that is four minutes from my home!!! I don't have to fly to get to it. Yes, that's a selfish reason but it is my reason! I don't care that the boat is butt-ugly, it got me to magnificent dive sites and I did 27 dives in 6 days. I can't wait to go again but I'll have to save up.

"The passion? Working on the Nekton (or any liveaboard... even a cruise ship as a dive instructor) is a meat grinder. Liveabaods are just not pleasant experiences for the crew. A high percentage of crew we encounter are foreign nationals- who savor this job as a real plum."-Roatanman

I don't know why you would think of the job as a meat grinder. I personally enjoyed the work. I got to do a lot of diving, worked with great people, and most people who go on vacation are happy to be there so they are fun to be around. Granted its hard work at times, and there are parts of it that are not fun but thats true of any job.

"I believe in the lead sentence you offered quite the opinion! Kind of like calling your "starter wife", ugly."-Roatanman

You said yourself they were not pretty, It was a statement about the physical apperance of the boats, no more than that. We had an engineer who would say to people"She may be ugly, but she sure is slow" it was a joke, I think these boats are a great illustration of form following function.

"I understand stated anger over not getting paid, but I don't understand how that takes a year to sink in."-Roatanman

The things that led me to leave the company developed in the last month I was with them. This is not suppose to be a bash Nekton thread. I just want to know why people not working for Nekton care so deeply about this company.

"Why do people who have no stake in the company, such as I, argue? Because I want to see what is overall a historically good product recover from a stumble and continue to offer interesting (and very unique) options in the dive world." Do you argue like this for every company that gets a bad review, it just seems strange for someone who has not been on the boat in a while to be so concerned. If you just like to argue and Nekton gets you the most bang for the buck then great everyone needs a hobby.

Thanks for taking the time to reply roatan man.

johndg8:

We had an engineer who would say to people"She may be ugly, but she sure is slow" it was a joke,

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I remember that well. He was the same guy that said, "It's the slowest moving condo in the Caribbean".

I think these boats are a great illustration of form following function.

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Well said.

And the function, in this case, was well worth following. As you can well attest, the passengers were barely aware that the ship was moving and underway when it was being moved. The SWATH design works well.

These Nekton movements may be slowly accomplished, but on most liveaboards, that either wakes you up or makes breakfast a challenging experience. The Nekton guests aren't missing any diving, but they are allowed to sleep or dine in comfort- the ship doesn't rock.

There is a SWATH that is a gambling cruise ship that pulls out of Ft. Lauderdale... good enough for roulette?

Any number of people will say that the Nektons do rock, surge, whatverver, and yes- of course there is some motion. But put me on a SWATH vessel any time over a deep-vee hulled ship. Where would a deep-vee with it's inherent speed be better? Maybe getting to Cocos Islands (Baja) or Darwin and Wolf (Glapagos). SWATH's simply are not fast... they are stable.

"She's an ugly boat, but she's slow" - I believe that was Chris who repeated that much to my amusement.

I just like to see the dive industry flourish. Occasional mistakes and a bad moment should not stir the need for for a lynching party. I always point out the real facts about locations where they ransack your car when shore diving. The island isn't crime ridden- it's just the only place in the Caribbean where dopey Americans park their cars full of goodies and go far away for an hour at a time. Don't look askance at an island when it's the only place that we provide the catalyst. If you shore dived from another island, they would also have that problem. See the disease, not the symptom.

Skewed or narrow views such as that do indeed rouse me to defend, even if I haven't been to that island in a while.

here using the criteria "first+post" and after a few pokes you'll likely see any number of threads where first time posters began their harangue about any number of subjects. (The phrase "first post" will appear in follow-up responder's posts who notice that fact) You will also see that the total life post count of these "first posters" is very limited. They show up, do their worst, and then go away, never again to share their expertise on any broader subject. Much like city councils or condo associations get those rabid volunteers who are "one issue in mind" voters.

johndg8:

"The passion? Working on the Nekton (or any liveaboard... even a cruise ship as a dive instructor) is a meat grinder. Liveabaods are just not pleasant experiences for the crew. A high percentage of crew we encounter are foreign nationals- who savor this job as a real plum."-Roatanman

I don't know why you would think of the job as a meat grinder. I personally enjoyed the work. I got to do a lot of diving, worked with great people, and most people who go on vacation are happy to be there so they are fun to be around. Granted its hard work at times, and there are parts of it that are not fun but thats true of any job.

"I believe in the lead sentence you offered quite the opinion! Kind of like calling your "starter wife", ugly."-Roatanman

You said yourself they were not pretty, It was a statement about the physical apperance of the boats, no more than that. We had an engineer who would say to people"She may be ugly, but she sure is slow" it was a joke, I think these boats are a great illustration of form following function.

"I understand stated anger over not getting paid, but I don't understand how that takes a year to sink in."-Roatanman

The things that led me to leave the company developed in the last month I was with them. This is not suppose to be a bash Nekton thread. I just want to know why people not working for Nekton care so deeply about this company.

"Why do people who have no stake in the company, such as I, argue? Because I want to see what is overall a historically good product recover from a stumble and continue to offer interesting (and very unique) options in the dive world." Do you argue like this for every company that gets a bad review, it just seems strange for someone who has not been on the boat in a while to be so concerned. If you just like to argue and Nekton gets you the most bang for the buck then great everyone needs a hobby.

Thanks for taking the time to reply roatan man.

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My reasons for being so passionate about posting on Nekton threads are based on some of the same experiences you shared. I worked on the boat for eight years, loved the work, logged thousands of dives, saw lots of cool stuff (mantas, tiger sharks, whale sharks, pilot whales) got to meet tons of great people (both crew and guests),
earned my captain's license, etc. Most importantly, it allowed me to become a leader. Captaining the boat taught me how to deal with all types of people (guests and crew) and to develop customer service skills that serve me well today as an owner of a small dive operation.

It breaks my heart to see the company going through tough times, but I have been through it before and i hope that Nekton is able to weather the storm like it has in the past. I have no use for people who use the internet as a tool to destroy the reputation of a company that has been good to me and has served the diving public well for over 15 years. I certainly will not dispute that there are problems, but when you see the same posters over and over again (many of them with only minimal numbers of posts) bashing the company, I get annoyed. Trip reports (both positive and negative) speak for themselves, but the continous bashing by a limited number of individuals serves no productive purpose.

Just my $.02

cappyjon431:

....earned my captain's license... develop customer service skills that serve me well today as an owner of a small dive operation....

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That alludes to one of the least understood progressions to success in the dive industry.

Many sign up for their IDC and IE's with their ultimate goal only a few weeks away. Having the "golden ring" to be your Instructor's (OWSI) Certificate is a fools errand.

It is merely a starting point, and the attainment of MSDT isn't anything more.

If you're doing it because "you like SCUBA diving and teaching new people about your favorite sport"... That's great and admirable, but get the hell off of a liveabaord dive-op, it really doesn't work long term for most of us altruistic basic OWSI geeks.

All SCUBA Cert agencies work in a pyramid structure, just like Tupperware, MaryKay, Avon, or AmWay. The idea is to become the one people flock to~ to be trained to teach.

Just as AmWay higher-ups have distributors and salespeople under them, an Instructor has DM's carrying tanks and making coffee. When you're an OWSI and happen to be the lowest rated person in a small operation, say... a 100' long liveaboard... you become the grunt.

One day, top of the world, new OWSI Cert in hand, next day... you're back to being the functional equivalent of a DM... or worse. Hoping to build up your student count tally were you? A liveaboard is not known for guests taking cert card courses, certainly not like some foreign island SCUBA center where you wouldn't get hired, much less accept the low pay for work that a local would.

So, you're not getting what you thought you would with your community college "Associates Degree", the OWSI (or even less likely, the DM Card)

The only key to long term success in the world of dive instruction is to be at the top of the food chain, the narrow end of the pyramid: Course Director, Examiner, etc. (unless your birth certificate had the name Ralph Erickson on it~ who was to the dive industry as Levi Strauss was to the California Gold Rush... ie: why dig for gold?) Get your PhD.

That takes a lot of work and concerted effort.

On a liveaboard, there is an additional parallel and necessary path to success. Getting that Captain's License.

If every existing OWSI Instructor ran one class each year, the pools would simply overflow. They're a dime a dozen, I know... I am one.

No purpose? It got "ME" Paid

I'm not here to say anything about it, not even mentioning their name. Just reading up on some reports to see how things are going. I agree with both of you when you're passionate about something you'll go out of you're way for it. Like sticking up for someone/something through all types of adversity. So many people felt like making noise was the only way to get their money, for some it worked for others it hasn't.

Anyways maybe that can shed some light as to why there were(I don't think there are as many now) So many "disgruntled ex-employee" posts. By the way Hi Jon it's Josh I worked on the Pilot.