Hiding your certification level

Not sure if this is the right forum for this question. Do any of you with DM/instructor or other pro level certifications hide your cert. level when on a trip with other divers you do not know (ie:liveaboards)? When I am required to present a c-card, I ussually only present the card which represents the lowest level of training which will cover my activities for the week (usually a Nitrox card suffices). I am concerned about liability and or getting paired with an inexperienced diver if I require a buddy. Just wonder how the rest of you handle this. I think I will also post this on the instructor forum.
Thanks

diverdoug1:

Not sure if this is the right forum for this question. Do any of you with DM/instructor or other pro level certifications hide your cert. level when on a trip with other divers you do not know (ie:liveaboards)? When I am required to present a c-card, I ussually only present the card which represents the lowest level of training which will cover my activities for the week (usually a Nitrox card suffices). I am concerned about liability and or getting paired with an inexperienced diver if I require a buddy. Just wonder how the rest of you handle this. I think I will also post this on the instructor forum.
Thanks

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This topic has been done to death. Look around a bit.

The long and short of the consensus - if there is such a thing here - is that:

- legally, if there is a problem, you can bet your cert level will be ascertained by even the dumbest lawyer in the world

- realistically, not ASSUMING a DM/Instructor relationship with anyone you dive with, through either words or actions, is the best course of action to follow to avoid the situation altogether.

I often do this, just because I want to relax, and don't want to be relied upon to help babysit. Something I have had happen in the past. To be honest, just being a cold water PNW diver was enough for a charter to treat me as a "skillled" diver and was actually told - "well I know I won't need to watch you then." That was fine with me. Even tho I don't always let others know, it doesn't mean I "turn off" when on vacation. I still find myself watching out for others and staying ready to be of assistance.

RJP:

This topic has been done to death. Look around a bit.

The long and short of the consensus - if there is such a thing here - is that:

- legally, if there is a problem, you can bet your cert level will be ascertained by even the dumbest lawyer in the world

- realistically, not ASSUMING a DM/Instructor relationship with anyone you dive with, through either words or actions, is the best course of action to follow to avoid the situation altogether.

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I was just curious if it is that easy to ascertain someone's certifications. My last instructor certification was over 10 years ago, and I rarely teach because of similar liability concerns (I have another job which provides my income). If someone has a "bad day" on a liveaboard, do they automaticaly do an in-depth check of all passengers cert. levels?

One thing I have learned from selling real estate, once a pro always a pro. You always have to fully disclose to avoid liability prior to becoming "evolved". That is the reason I never pursued a Divemaster or higher level of certification, you just took a hobby to a whole new level.

Doug- It must have been some time since you were a Course Director- I think you knew how this works.....

diverdoug1:

I was just curious if it is that easy to ascertain someone's certifications. My last instructor certification was over 10 years ago, and I rarely teach because of similar liability concerns (I have another job which provides my income). If someone has a "bad day" on a liveaboard, do they automaticaly do an in-depth check of all passengers cert. levels?

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If (when) a tort liability lawyer gets involved, likely anyone aboard will be deposed and queried in regards to a list of things, including their certification level. Ill advised to lie. Do check with your own counsel in regards to factual relevance and other issues.

It is no big deal nor unusual for a certifying agency to be subpoenaed with one, or a list of names and asked to ascertain each individual's history with that association.

In that a subpoena to an Agency for all persons aboard would cost the same versus one for a select handful of those (so far) known to be intimately involved, likely the list would be inclusive.

If it gets as far as you being dragged into it, your attorney would present the best defense of your not being involved in any way in the incident.

The insurance one purchases for pro level certs is used to cover your defense in court, and also that of the Agency that you represent. If you have no such insurance, that leaves you in a very difficult position if you need to present yourself.

You might still be utilized as a witness, one of high value due to your experience level.

If you were shown to have caused a perception of, or to have acted in a SCUBA Professional capacity in the time leading up to this event, arguing alternatively that you haven't pursued employment as an instructor in the last X years would be irrelevant, leaving you open to potential tort liability.

At a dive op, act dumb, don't say much. If the operators know you, remind them that you are "Joe Diver" and nothing more. If they don't know you, a simple EAN Cert Card is a good thing~ as you already mentioned.

This is a common topic.

RJP:

realistically, not ASSUMING a DM/Instructor relationship with anyone you dive with, through either words or actions, is the best course of action to follow to avoid the situation altogether.

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And part of that is not flashing around an instructor card.

diverdoug1:

My last instructor certification was over 10 years ago, and I rarely teach because of similar liability concerns

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I hope you mean you never teach. If your instructor certification hasn't been active in 10 years, you are not a current instructor. As long as you are not presenting yourself as an instructor, I would think (and I am not a lawyer) you should be OK.

driftwood:

One thing I have learned from selling real estate, once a pro always a pro.

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To a point, I would agree, I think a former instructor would probably be held to a higher standard of acting responsibly as a buddy, but I think it's unlikely it could be shown he has an instructor/student responsibility unless he did something really stupid like say, "I'm an instructor and you should do......."

RoatanMan:

It is no big deal nor unusual for a certifying agency to be subpoenaed with one, or a list of names and asked to ascertain each individual's history with that association.

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Excellent point. Teach through a small agency.

Yes, it has been 12 years since I have certified an O/W diver. I'm still active in teaching some technical sub-specialties, but I guess with the age of computers, it does not matter how obscure what your teaching is, the leagle beagles will find me.

diverdoug1:

I am concerned about liability and or getting paired with an inexperienced diver if I require a buddy.

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If something happens to your buddy, your training will come into question, no matter what you do on the boat.

As a pro, do your best to insure nothing happens to your new buddy. That's you responsibility, no matter your certification level.

I'm not so concerned about my buddy team, but someone else (such as a group drift dive situation). My preference for dive buddies is someone I know & trust, or a bailout bottle. At one time I thought about not letting anyone know that I am a physician on trips, but I figured they would find out if anyone got hurt, because I certainly would not withhold care from someone in order to hide my training.