DMC issues....am I the only one that has this?

[ZenDiver.3D]

Okay, I am here, all by myself again. I need some help. Some assistance. Some advice/validation.... Here's the story:

One of my DMC's is a very nice guy. Really. But he has seemed to go right round the bend. He s bullying the other DMC's for their turns DMing classes, running the boats, you name it. I have been having to tell him repeatedly to Quit trying to "teach" his own techniques to the new students during my classes. !st because they are flat wrong, and 2nd because they directly contradict what I had just taught. He is making disparaging remarks on the boats and acting like he is amazing-diver-man..... He tries to make everything a superman moment for him. During a diver rescue (a diver from another boat), he acts like a complete jackass and got in the way repeatedly. Then thought he was just fine.
He has now started bitching when he DM's a boat on Friday and another DM gets to do Saturday and he doesn't..... He just called one of my co-owners to complain that he was not being utilized properly...... Oh, and he is out of town for about the next 6 weeks. We are in the middle of the DM course right now. I even put on a special boat on Friday for DM drills and sea work which he specifically demanded. Then the day before the dive, he texts to say,"sorry can't make it. I have stuff to do."
He is driving me nuts. I didn't play childish middle school games when I was In middle school and I will not play them now. I am going to cut him from the DM program when he gets back. I just think this is causing too much drama and problems between the team here. No one wants to put up with this. I would love to find a way to get him back on track, as he can be a really nice guy. Any ideas, or do I can him?

[tstormdiver]

Sounds like this DMC could be a real liability, to you as an instructor & a business co- owner. Not even a DM, yet & trying to teach or reteach the class???? & his ways are wrong? (& I would guess probably against standards). That can be a serious safety issue. Most agencies will not allow DM's to teach anything. Review,... maybe, under the supervision of the instructor, but not teach. Sounds like he seriously needs to read & understand the agency's standards & know your standards, as the lead instructor when he's there with you, as to what his place is, as a DM or in this case, a DMC. You are in the driver's seat in this case. Whether he's nice or not, in most circumstances, you &/or the co- owner (in agreement), needs to have a frank & serious talk with him about his behavior. With the stipulation that such behavior MUST stop immediately, if not he will be cut from the program &/or the shop. His job as a DM is to assist you &/or the shop, not run the show. Cut & dry. Confrontations are rarely pleasant or fun, but necessary at times. When going against standards (I assume), countermanding the instructions of the leading instructor (as long as you are within standards- even then countermanding would be questionable), acting unprofessionally & disrupting the general morale of the operations at the dive shop, that's opening you up to more problems & can be a real possible liability to you as instructor.

[Thalassamania]

What's the problem? He's history.

[jscott099]

I've seen this type before (similar behaviors and attitude). We try to wash them out early as it is clear they have the wrong mindset about what being a DM or instructor is all about. You will be doing him, students, and paying customers a favor (all though he will not perceive it).

[Crowley]

Before everybody lynches the guy....

It happens, ZenDiver - same way a little bit of power goes to a lot of people's heads. Give some men a walkie-talkie and they think they're a member of the SWAT team.

Talk to the guy and explain to him how his actions are affecting people's perspectives. Explain to him that he still has a lot to learn and his conduct may well be putting lives at risk. He is training to be a professional and needs to act like one. He may genuinely think that he's doing the right thing by being over-exuberant in trying to demonstrate his expertise, but he needs to be set straight. I've seen it plenty of times - from new DMs to new instructors or staffies or even Open Water divers who seem to know everything and try to impress the student divers who've just started.

Attitudes can be mended - not always - but they can be. It's at least worth a try before binning him directly. I have found in the past that the phrase "no refunds" can be used with a certain amount of success!

Good luck,

C.

[leapfrog]

Zen,

I notice you are in Kuwait? Is there a cultural issue involved?

I agree with Thal. There are already too many DMs and Instructors in the world. Drop him, fast. (BTW that particular kick in his rear end will be the biggest service you can do him)

[ZenDiver.3D]

What's the problem? He's history.
But there is a tight knit community and he has been a friend of ours for a couple of years now. He has truly changed only in the past 3 months. I always hate having to do something that will devastate another, even when it is needed.

Zen,

I notice you are in Kuwait? Is there a cultural issue involved?

I agree with Thal. There are already too many DMs and Instructors in the world. Drop him, fast. (BTW that particular kick in his rear end will be the biggest service you can do him)

Nope. This guy is from the good old U.S. He is from Florida. And you are right about the rest. The best thing.

Tammy, I have told him clearly that he is not and cannot instruct the students. Yet I keep finding him stepping on top of the instructor to add to their instruction.
I have also told him that he cannot DM All classes. We have others who wish to be there too and he has to take a rotation. Nope. Pouting... I am through.
My co-owner(hubby) and the other co-owner have all agreed, but it is me who must shake him loose. I am the managing owner. Sucks. Thanks ya'll for the help.

[leapfrog]

The best thing. By doing this you are sending a clear and positive message to rest of the crew. After it's done, watch the morale of the rest of the DMCs soar!

[joolz]

I wonder who coined the term "divemaster" anyway. Anybody who's actually done it knows that it really should be "diveslave"

Zen, you have two choices: ditch the guy or see if you can steer him back in the right direction. It all depends on whether you think he's salvageable. From your original post, it sounds like you're leaning 80/20 towards ditching him, but the fact that he can be a nice guy is preventing you from going all the way to 100/0.

The fact that he took off for 6 weeks in the middle of the program gives you an out. When he gets back, you can tell him that you're unable to resume where he left off because it wouldn't be fair to hold the other DMCs back while you bring him up to speed (assuming they haven't finished by then). You can reschedule the next DM program at your convenience -- say January -- and point out that a DM is supposed to be a professional, and professionals don't just back out of commitments.

If you do choose the rehab route, you can work with him privately on his skills to ensure that his techniques are consistent with everybody else's, and do this before he gets in front of any students again. He can use his own techniques on his own time, but when he contradicts the instructor it undermines your ability to teach. Most rational people would understand this, and if he doesn't grasp that, then maybe he'll grasp the idea that unless he does it properly, he's going to score a 2 on the evaluation and will never pass the course.

Is there anybody in the shop that he actually respects? Say, the co-worker that he called to bitch? It sounds like he might just be in need of a good mentor to explain that a DM isn't about being a superhero, despite the swanky title. Everything you said in the original post is stuff that he needs to hear before you kick him out: he's interfering with your ability to teach, he's overstepping his role as an uninsured DMC (the instructor's insurance only carries him so far), he's affecting morale, and he's ditching his responsibilities. Maybe you can ask him why you should take him back after all that and see what he says.

[knotical]

imo you've been way more then tolerant. Sometimes we do friends a disservice when we treat them differently.

BUT, if you really want to salvage him, consider apologizing for treating him too tolerantly and explain that because he is a friend you must henceforth treat him less tolerantly than typical candidates, so as to avoid the continued appearance of favoritism. Another potential technique is to explain that as dive professionals we are partly actors, and he must at least act like an ideal DM. The risk of course is that he'll change his ways only until given real responsibility, and then revert.

Personally, I would have cut him loose before this.

[Arizona_SVO]

Zen, I think the term DiveMaster has gone to his head... so push the button! If you are talking about the guy who was DMC while I was there for this summer, I personally think you should have done it a long time ago. But he was your student, I respect your judgement, and I hoped for you that he would come around since then. Alas, too bad he has not changed his ways.

You know what you have to do... just make it fast and painless. Maybe he can go to the Hotel dive shop up the street to the north and work for them.... Standards there don't seem to matter much.

[themons]

I went through an analagous situation with a DMC from another shop earlier this summer. I learned a lot from responses to my situation.

Consider that if the individual eventually becomes a DM they are going to reflect not only on you, but also on your diveshop. In your case, you know what he is like. He will continue to subject any divers that they come into contact with this type of behavior. If he by some chance goes on to become an instructor, he will subject both the course director, the IEer, and any other instructors to more of the same. Can you do this in good conscience.

Just because an individual pays for a DM course, does not mean that they are qualified to become a DM either skill or personality wise.

Business is competitive enough without having someone undermining your reputation. I'd give him his money back and be done with him and sleep better at night.

[joolz]

Business is competitive enough without having someone undermining your reputation. I'd give him his money back and be done with him and sleep better at night.

There's a common misconception that an instructor owes you a card if you've paid the course fee. This guy has taken up a lot of Zen's time and resources, and shouldn't expect to walk away from it with a full refund. If she does cut him loose and feels like being generous, she can sell him his course materials at full retail, refund the processing fee, and pro-rate the portion of the course that he's already completed.

If he doesn't like that, encourage him to take it up with Judge Judy! :popcorn:

[GeorgeC]

One thing to be careful about is allowing this behavior to continue in front of other students (Read paying customers). Most people at the beginning of a new environment (Diving, Dance Class & etc.) are quiet and shy. They might be turned off by his attitude and take their business elsewhere. Another concern is they see you tolerate this behavior and loose respect for you as an instructor/business owner and also take their business elsewhere.
Do yourself a favor and separate business from friendship. You are not his friend when working…you are his boss. The sooner he recognizes this relationship the better off you both will be and in the end he will respect you for this relationship. You already know what to do.

[Web Monkey]

But there is a tight knit community and he has been a friend of ours for a couple of years now. He has truly changed only in the past 3 months. I always hate having to do something that will devastate another, even when it is needed.

Ditch him. If he's a friend, ditch him nicely.

If you think it's hard to get rid of him now, it's still easier than ditching him after losing the rest of your students and your business.


Talk to the guy and explain to him how his actions are affecting people's perspectives. Explain to him that he still has a lot to learn and his conduct may well be putting lives at risk. He is training to be a professional and needs to act like one. He may genuinely think that he's doing the right thing by being over-exuberant in trying to demonstrate his expertise, but he needs to be set straight.

That's right on the money. He should be teaching the company line, whatever that is. If you keep him (which I wouldn't recommend) you need to impress on him that he needs to follow the company line (your way) or hit the road, regardless of whether or not he agrees with it.

And if he disagrees strongly enough, he should leave by choice.

Terry

[JimLap]

I also am concerned by your statement that he's a nice guy. Nice guys don't bully other Dm's, make you get a boat and then back out, and the ydo not go behind your back to piss and moan to your partner. What does this guy do when not DM'ing, EXCUSE ME DMC'ing. He;s not even a DM and he's contradiciting instructors? Remember what you told Eileen about daddy dearest a little while back? Physician heal thyself. Ditch the guy before somebody gets hurt.

[Scubaman7596]

You could always use " This is business not personal Line "
And explain to him why you are making a business decision.

I have had to do that before. AND there is a difference. It is uncomfortable for a few minutes. Then you remember you have a business to run. Poooooof its over.
Unfortuately He will take it personally ( sounds like he has got a big ego) and the longer you take or the more chances you give him the more personal he will take it.
But Time heals all wounds. and if he is a friend it will heal.

It sounds abit like he is there already with you, That is why he is complaining.

So this six weeks off may be your saving grace if you choose it to be.

Good luck

[ZenDiver.3D]

Zen, I think the term DiveMaster has gone to his head... so push the button! If you are talking about the guy who was DMC while I was there for this summer, I personally think you should have done it a long time ago. But he was your student, I respect your judgement, and I hoped for you that he would come around since then. Alas, too bad he has not changed his ways.

You know what you have to do... just make it fast and painless. Maybe he can go to the Hotel dive shop up the street to the north and work for them.... Standards there don't seem to matter much.
You are right. And since he has complained to another DMC who just can't stand him now, and said," You know, this isn't the only game in town," I think he Does in fact, need to go to the other game.... Thanks. It really will help the morale of the others and the tone of the shop.
One thing to be careful about is allowing this behavior to continue in front of other students (Read paying customers). Most people at the beginning of a new environment (Diving, Dance Class & etc.) are quiet and shy. They might be turned off by his attitude and take their business elsewhere. Another concern is they see you tolerate this behavior and loose respect for you as an instructor/business owner and also take their business elsewhere.
Do yourself a favor and separate business from friendship. You are not his friend when working…you are his boss. The sooner he recognizes this relationship the better off you both will be and in the end he will respect you for this relationship. You already know what to do.
Yes, that is a really big concern of mine. I am very big on respect and not tearing people down in front of others, customers or not.
You could always use " This is business not personal Line "
And explain to him why you are making a business decision.

I have had to do that before. AND there is a difference. It is uncomfortable for a few minutes. Then you remember you have a business to run. Poooooof its over.
Unfortuately He will take it personally ( sounds like he has got a big ego) and the longer you take or the more chances you give him the more personal he will take it.
But Time heals all wounds. and if he is a friend it will heal.

It sounds abit like he is there already with you, That is why he is complaining.

So this six weeks off may be your saving grace if you choose it to be.

Good luck
You are all saying what I do know to be true. Jim, I am great at giving advice. Now let's see if I can take it, huh?
He will absolutely take it personally. But it didn't have to be this way. I really would love for him to be just another diver like he used to be. But you can't go backwards. I hope for the best for him, but I must do the best thing for my shop and employees.

Thanks you guys. I'll let you know how it works out when he gets back.

[ZenDiver.3D]

I also am concerned by your statement that he's a nice guy. Nice guys don't bully other Dm's, make you get a boat and then back out, and the ydo not go behind your back to piss and moan to your partner. What does this guy do when not DM'ing, EXCUSE ME DMC'ing. He;s not even a DM and he's contradiciting instructors? Remember what you told Eileen about daddy dearest a little while back? Physician heal thyself. Ditch the guy before somebody gets hurt.

Oh you are soooo right!

He administrates some IT contract here for the government. Very impressed with his middle management status. He always has a better plan, it seems than anyone else.

I think this will sting for him, but it will be a relief for the rest of us. He is history.

[Web Monkey]

You are all saying what I do know to be true. Jim, I am great at giving advice. Now let's see if I can take it, huh?

He will absolutely take it personally. But it didn't have to be this way. I really would love for him to be just another diver like he used to be. But you can't go backwards. I hope for the best for him, but I must do the best thing for my shop and employees.

Thanks you guys. I'll let you know how it works out when he gets back.

Cool. Don't worry about it too much. He's completely responsible for his own feelings and needs to deal with this on his own. If being booted from a class because of personality problems makes him feel bad about himself, maybe he'll realize that being an a-hole is non-productive and change the way he deals with people.

If not, he'll have life filled with crappy short-term jobs.

Don't take longer than necessary. Just tell him, and ask him to leave. It's like firing somoene. Nothing good will come out of taking a long time doing it.

Terry

[JimLap]

Oh you are soooo right!

He administrates some IT contract here for the government. Very impressed with his middle management status. He always has a better plan, it seems than anyone else.

I think this will sting for him, but it will be a relief for the rest of us. He is history.

An IT geek is not so bad to dump. Better that than a Force Recon or Special Forces guy who is gone for 6 weeks on a "hunting trip".

[ZenDiver.3D]

An IT geek is not so bad to dump. Better that than a Force Recon or Special Forces guy who is gone for 6 weeks on a "hunting trip".

:rofl3:
True true! We have those here too. In fact, two of my best customers are exactly that. Prior Special Forces guys... They have much more sense and are not such girls.

Two of my other DMC's were talking about him because he had bitched and moaned to them and I heard one say that this guy must have sand in his mangina........

[vrykolakas]

dump him... Remember, as a dive master, one of his obligations is being a role model, which by bitching and moaning all the time, bullying other DMC's (right there I would have failed him), contradicting you (failure point 1 or 2 - depending on what happened first, the bullying or this), acting like super diver while being a total jackass, and every other thing you mention about him..