What should I trust?

Please register or login

Welcome to ScubaBoard, the world's largest scuba diving community. Registration is not required to read the forums, but we encourage you to join. Joining has its benefits and enables you to participate in the discussions.

Benefits of registering include

  • Ability to post and comment on topics and discussions.
  • A Free photo gallery to share your dive photos with the world.
  • You can make this box go away

Joining is quick and easy. Log in or Register now!

flyingvisit

Registered
Messages
28
Reaction score
7
Location
Could be anywhere...
# of dives
0 - 24
Just a general newb question.

Did some dives, with my nice new dive computer that up until now I had only tested in the pool... perfect, both recorded as No Deco. Dive tables though - another matter. Rounding up from my max depth they put me into Deco. The general consensus from everyone I asked is "trust the computer, its more accurate".

Is this the advice you would give? Does anyone even record the pressure groups etc in their logs or do they just record bottom times and depths and SI and note that their computer stated it was No Deco??? Am I just being typically picky about things bothering about this?
 
Tell us about the dives, how deep, how long, what surface interval. Chances are the computer is fine and the tables are overly conservative because of the non-square nature of your actual dives.
 
thats totally normal that a computer would read no deco and your tables put you past the limits. The reason for this is that the tables assume you spend your entire dive at your max depth. When you move to shallower depths during your dive you actually begin to offgas (ie. the nitrogen you absorbed at the deeper depths starts working its way out) and you absorb nitrogen at a slower rate. The computer you use will give you credit for this. It tracks your EXACT dive profile, knowing where you are all the time. This is the reason why your computer kept you well out of deco even though the tables said you broke the limit. When you're diving with a computer its a good idea to bring tables with you and have a back up plan just in case the computer dies on you, then your diving day/trip isnt over. But when you log your dive, yes you can leave the pressure group blank or just put 'computer" in the space for it. :) hope that helps!
 
All newb questions are good, we were all newbs in some way or another.

Congrats on your new computer. And as you found, computers often will give you more bottom time than a traditional table. This is because computers are calculating multi-level dives. If you dove a square profile, you'll find that tables and computers generate the same or similar NDL times.

Just one point of clarification: computers are precise but not "accurate."

A computer's inputs are simple - depth and time. As the result, it's difficult for a computer to be accurate regarding your actual decompression obligation. There are many things that it does not factor, and that includes your health, age, physiology, level of hydration, diving conditions, etc.

My advice is not to trust anything. Understand the pros and cons (or strengths and weaknesses), and make a decision based on this knowledge. Yes, it's great that you're bothering about this :)

If you feel that the computer's algorithms for calculation NDL works well for the dives that you do, then you should continue using it. Personally, I use a very simple table for my dives.

Have a great time in the water!
 
Just a general newb question.

Did some dives, with my nice new dive computer that up until now I had only tested in the pool... perfect, both recorded as No Deco. Dive tables though - another matter. Rounding up from my max depth they put me into Deco. The general consensus from everyone I asked is "trust the computer, its more accurate".

Is this the advice you would give? Does anyone even record the pressure groups etc in their logs or do they just record bottom times and depths and SI and note that their computer stated it was No Deco??? Am I just being typically picky about things bothering about this?

I think you're asking how you should fill in your logbook, right?

If you're using a computer you obviously can't work out your pressure groups. Tables and computers work in different ways. Just record the SI, max depth, bottom time and decide on something like a '*' to put in the in the square where you normally fill in your group so you can indicate to yourself that it was a computer dive.

R..
 
the simple answer is a dive computer is more accurate because it constantly calculates your no deco dpending on your dynamic depth and bottom time.

different dive computers use different algorithyms however to compute. the suunto rgbm for instance is known for its conservatism, while the haldane algorithm used by older uwatecs(not sure bout the newer models) are known to be less so. with that said dive tables are more conservative because they cannot account for dynamic changes during your dive.

fwiw i believe that dive computers are one of the best pieces of equipment you can get yourself as a recreational diver.

just my 2 psi
 
I would first say it is not correct to say that the table or the computer are accurate (not correct because it might create a fake expectation from users). Accurate (or not accurate) could be an instrument that measures something and gives a measurement, which is not the case here. Both are based on the same concept: combine a theoretical mathematical model of bubble formation with statistics based on how divers reacted to a decompression based on that theory, and adjust the results until you generate a decompression plan that would keep most (as in 99.999...%) of the divers healthy (with no DCS issues). With the current technology, nothing tracks (as in measuring) your real tissue nitrogen loading, or - even harder - if there are any bubbles in your body. Everything is based on the assumption that if so many divers reacted fine to that decompression schedule, you should be fine too. There's a very very small chance that you might react differently for some reason and get bent even you decompressed by that schedule. Of course, the science behind is based on physics laws, so the predictions are very close to the real thing, but still it is not based on real data taken from your body.

The table was the first implementation of this concept. In order to keep it simple, they created a very simple decision process, based on 2 input variables (maximum depth and time). This also had a hidden advantage - it "rounds" the schedule a lot in the direction of added safety - because it provides the same result if you stay 1 minute at a depth of 30 meters and 19 minutes at 5 meters, or if you stay 20 minutes at 30 meters, even though it is obvious your nitrogen loading is way different.

The computer is able to process many more variables in order to get the result. Instead of just outputing a value based on the maximum depth and total time (although I'm sure some of the early computers really did only this), a software inside it simulates the nitrogen loading and off-gasing of a number of "virtual" body tissues, that should theoretically match all kinds of tissues in your body. Because it continuously tracks the behaviour of that virtual (mathematical model of a) human body at the real depth you are, its result is closer to reality. Some advanced computers might take into account things like mistakes in your diving (fast ascents for example) and pad the results with safety margins. I think the only "real" parameter of your body that some advanced computers are measuring is the heart rate (like in the Galileo) - this allows the computer to guess if you are making more effort and then reduce the NDL and extend the stops accordingly.

So, the answer is that the computer tries to provide a result as closed to reality as possible, which extends your allowed bottom time. But keep in mind, it is not 'accurate'. It just predicts closer to edge - and because we are talking about statistics here, it may also mean that the computer might predict a deco profile which may be less than needed for very rare and very specific conditions of your body, in which case you could get bent. Of course, all the studies involved are making this occurence very improbable.

My advice is don't push the limits. If the computer gives you an NDL, try to exit before it. If you go into deco, plan your dives with tables, or use a more conservative computer setting - specially at the begining, when you don't know your body enough to know how it would react. Try to be familiar with table values for the depth of your dive, so you can know if the results given by your computer are reasonable or there's any bug or problem with them. Still, when diving within sound limits, the computer is a very valuable tool to extend the bottom time of repetitive dives, easier than with tables.
 
good advice already
As has been pointed out, your computer will show as much bottom time as you can get ... you need to factor in whether you got enough sleep the night before, you dont feel 100% today, water temps are really cold, conditions are stressfull, etc ... your the one who has control over how conservitive you dive on any given day.
Pressure group? I just put in how many dots were showing on my Tissue Loading Graph (Oceanic)
 
Never absolutely trust anything with your lilfe which is operated mechanically or electronically.
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/peregrine/

Back
Top Bottom