New standard for DM Gear Exchange

[NvScubaSteve]

So I am working on my DM and have heard a rumor floating out there that PADI has (or is) dropped (ing) the requirement for buddy breathing during the gear exchange. Anybody out there able to confirm this? I am not far from doing my gear exchange and I am actually looking forward to the challenge. My understanding is that if the standard is changed I will still be able to perform the skill a second time, doing the buddy breathing then if I want the expereince... Anybody have any additional information on this?

Thanks

SS

[RJP]

So I am working on my DM and have heard a rumor floating out there that PADI has (or is) dropped (ing) the requirement for buddy breathing during the gear exchange.

The buddy breathing aspect of it is the only thing that makes it the task loading "problem solving underwater" challenge it's intended to be. Without buddy breathing there's little difference between the gear exchange and "removal and replacement of BCD underwater" from OW class.

[NvScubaSteve]

I agree... That is why I am wondering if this is just a rumor or if there is any truth to it. Removal of the buddy breathing would greatly reduce, or completely eliminate, the task loading aspect to the skill. If it is removed my intention is to ask my instructor to complete the skill with the buddy breathing becuase I believe the experience to be a valuable one.

[Scott]

Here you go. Your instructor will have to teach it to you before you do the exchange.

Skill 2 – Equipment Exchange
Removed: Buddy breathing and replace with “while sharing a single second stage.”
Added: Instructor provides an orientation to sharing a single mouthpiece – including exhalation between breaths and not covering the purge valve.
The change may be put into effect immediately, and must be implemented in PADI courses and programs as of 1 June 2010.

[NvScubaSteve]

So this is a change in language and not a change in the skill as I see it. Rather than calling it "buddy breathing" we will now call it "sharing a single second stage" right? At least thats how it sounds to me.

[RJP]

So this is a change in language and not a change in the skill as I see it. Rather than calling it "buddy breathing" we will now call it "sharing a single second stage" right? At least thats how it sounds to me.

Yeah, that's what it sounds like to me...

[jridg]

That was the one thing that has stuck with me ever since I took my DM course - a long time ago, in a state far, far away...... - I loved it and it was a challenge - but it was a blast!

The new standard appears to be just like the old, but they don't teach buddy breathing anymore, so I think they wanted to ensure the instructors are teaching it to the DM candidates to ensure they know what to do prior to the gear exchange.

[fisheater]

To this lawyer's ear, it just sounds like PADI has abandoned the term "buddy breathing," in favor of explaining the process of sharing a single second stage and is explicly requiring that the DM candidate be taught how to "buddy breathe" before starting the skill.

I know that some instructors argued that "buddy breathing" includes breathing off of a buddy's octo, while they still were using their primary. PADI's change makes it clear that they want you to "buddy breathe" in the old school / Mike Nelson sense. Bravo!!

[azchipka]

The gear exchange is going to be a much as a problem solving skill as your instructor makes it.

Its often much more then a simple remove and replace.

If the buddy team is a small female and a large male where gear does not fit correctly. Additionally when I did this back when I was doing my DM course, I was required to fully exchange all gear including wetsuits, fins, etc...

I can assure you a wetsuit exchange is very challenging.

[TMHeimer]

How the heck do you get a wetsuit (I assume a shorty in the pool) off and (someone else's) on while buddy breathing? How would you do it on land?! As far as the semantics of buddy breathing vs. 2 sharing a single 2nd stage-- sounds like something politicians would dream up to keep busy in the legislature. Why would some instructors argue that it could mean someone breathing off your octo? Everyone knows exactly what it means.

[Divin'Hoosier]

How the heck do you get a wetsuit (I assume a shorty in the pool) off and (someone else's) on while buddy breathing? How would you do it on land?! As far as the semantics of buddy breathing vs. 2 sharing a single 2nd stage-- sounds like something politicians would dream up to keep busy in the legislature. Why would some instructors argue that it could mean someone breathing off your octo? Everyone knows exactly what it means.

Your exposure suit is the only thing you don't swap.

EDIT: I just read the context above. Sorry I missed it. I agree ... how can you make exchanging wetsuits a part of it? That of course requires the team to be wearing the same sized suit, which is not always the case. I have never seen an instructor require that the wetsuit also be exchanged. Seems like a lidicrous requirement to me.

[jridg]

I have never seen an instructor require that the wetsuit also be exchanged. Seems like a lidicrous requirement to me.

Yes, but it could be potentially extremely amusing ;)

[SailNaked]

Hmm, I am about to do this requirement maybe this weekend. It seems silly to me, my wife and I are very comfortable in the water and having no gear some gear or her gear upside down in pink pajamas with one regulator and a snorkel would not make any difference or cause me to think very hard assuming we get to sit on the bottom and do it holding hands singing kumbya. I believe the requirements read that we do not trade wetsuits or weight. I would love to try this at 100ft hovering in the water column within about 10ft, as in do it in a wreck without silting it up now that might be a challenge. pointless excercise, but hey im not really complaining I just think if it is supposed to be a mastery thought provoking problem solving excercise then at least make it a real problem that needs solving.

[vjanelle]

The exercise only needs to be done in a pool to make sure you and the other DMC can handle task loading yourselves without issues. Just remember to breathe twice, switch the reg, and work on the next piece. Overweight yourself if need be, do bcd/tank first, then fins, then mask, then do a perfect 5 point ascent. It's easier the second time around though :p

[Thalassamania]

The exercise only needs to be done in a pool to make sure you and the other DMC can handle task loading yourselves without issues. Just remember to breathe twice, switch the reg, and work on the next piece. Overweight yourself if need be, do bcd/tank first, then fins, then mask, then do a perfect 5 point ascent. It's easier the second time around though :p???

That's the kind of crappy performance that gives PADI its bad name. If you can't do it off the bottom, don't bother. If your instructor doesn't require you to do it off the bottom, find another who does, you're not gonna learn much from that one.

[Interceptor121]

If at the stage of being a DM you are thinking of overweighting as a solution you are doomed

[RU4SKUBA]

That's the kind of crappy performance that gives PADI its bad name. If you can't do it off the bottom, don't bother. If your instructor doesn't require you to do it off the bottom, find another who does, you're not gonna learn much from that one.

LOL... I come from a long line of exaggerators and this is a good example of the craft
:cool2:

[RJP]

???

That's the kind of crappy performance that gives PADI its bad name. If you can't do it off the bottom, don't bother. If your instructor doesn't require you to do it off the bottom, find another who does, you're not gonna learn much from that one.

"It's the instructor, not the agency."

PADI specifies it must be done "in water too deep to stand." PADI never says it must be done "on the bottom."

It's actually much easier to do mid-water anyway. The bottom simply "gets in the way."

[vjanelle]

Part of me really wants to see the video where you guys do this floating in a column of water.

:popcorn:

Any day now :)

[Jim Lapenta]

It is not hard to do in midwater. If each member is correctly weighted then you actually have real skill since you will in effect be supporting each others efforts. As other have said, the bottom gets in the way and makes it look like a real CF. If you are not able to adjust or control your buoyancy to this point, the diver has no business even starting DM. Hell I might not let them take my AOW course. Neutral is neutral no matter what skill you are doing. If you look at some of my other recent posts I have a new OW student who was doing mask clear, reg recovery, and weightbelt off and on in midwater on his first night. We'll be doing a gear exchange while buddy breathing before the end of class. I don;t expect him to stay in midwater for the entire exchange but I will. And hopefully he will try to.

[TMHeimer]

I'm trying to visualize the switching of BCs while buddy breathing. During the exchange obviously you continue to breathe off the same 2nd stage. Is there ever a time when you switch to the other guys 2nd stage? Do you both remove the BC at the same time or one guy at a time? This seems to be the only hard part I can think of--masks, fins, belts would seem to be a piece of cake, no?

[Kingpatzer]

The hard part is the masks, as you reach a point where neither buddy has the ability to see anything but you still have to buddy breath while you get the masks straightened out. After that, it's a piece of cake.

Me and my wife/buddy both wear contacts. For those who can freely open their eyes under water, something else may be the challenge. But honestly, nothing else stretched us at all.

[vjanelle]

I'm trying to visualize the switching of BCs while buddy breathing. During the exchange obviously you continue to breathe off the same 2nd stage. Is there ever a time when you switch to the other guys 2nd stage? Do you both remove the BC at the same time or one guy at a time? This seems to be the only hard part I can think of--masks, fins, belts would seem to be a piece of cake, no?

Kneel down with right leg up facing each other, take off your bcd and rest the tank on your leg. Take your two breaths and pass the bcd/tanks over counter clock wise(you can then put your left arm in and keep hoses clear). Remember to be visibly bubbling air out your mouth to show you're not holding your breath. It's the same thing as the underwater bcd re/re, but facing each other and buddy breathing.

This was actually the easiest bit, the fins were more annoying because of different sizes(I couldn't put hers on without breaking them and mine were too lose on her). Masks require coordination to clear them since the 2 breathe rule might have to be stretched.

Remember to pass the regulator mouth downwards so you're not free flowing.