View Full Version : An open letter to certification agencies
Wookie
October 23rd, 2009, 12:38 PM
Whew. It's hard to keep up. Hey, guys, I get the end result of the tech divers your agency makes. We have a policy, which is "dive to the limits of your certification". Trouble is, what are those limits. I found out this morning about PADI's new tech 40, 45, 50, 65, and 115 programs (humor there, don't get your panties in a bunch). What I remember is, tech 40 allows you to dive with doubles, with no more than 10 min of deco. Tech 45 allows deco gas, and tech 50 allows something else. TDI is changing things up too. It used to be, deep air, advanced nitrox and deco procedures, trimix I, trimix II, and expedition trimix.
Please please please put the limits of your programs somewhere easy to find. On your c-cards would be a likely place. I can advertise the depths of our planned dives, but I'm NOT a tech instructor. On purpose. I don't know what folks' different certifications mean, especially since everyone seems to be dividing them up into more and more classes. That's a topic for a different thread. I know what the recreational limits are, but I have no idea what some of these training agencies cards mean. And since I'm the guy who takes these folks diving, I kind of need to know.
Frank
Walter
October 23rd, 2009, 02:37 PM
And since I'm the guy who takes these folks diving, I kind of need to know.
Why? Why not let them dive within their limits without getting involved more than reminding them not to exceed the limits of their training?
coldsmoke
October 23rd, 2009, 07:52 PM
Yeah, I would hope that those carrying tech cards don't need anything more than a boat ride from you. If that's not the case then....
Hunter
Wookie
October 23rd, 2009, 08:43 PM
Nope, it's because folks ask me which trips are appropriate for them. Someone with a Adv. Nitrox and Deco Procedures card isn't certified to 250 feet on the Wilkes Barre. It is necessary for dive planning. We like to let the group set the destinations. They are going to need gas from me, they are going to need rental cylinders from me if they are flying in, we are not a day boat.... My TDI card says I'm trimix certified. My IANTD Card says I'm normoxic trimix certified. One of them limits me to 18%, one to 16%. Damned if I know which one is which. Got them both on the same dive, though.
Pearldiver07
October 23rd, 2009, 08:46 PM
Wookie,
At least the PADI cards have the depth on them - the "Tech 40" is just what it says: 40 meters (times by 3.28 to get feet).
40m - 131ft
45m - 148ft
50m - 164ft
65m - 213ft
and so on...
But putting the recommended maximum depths on cert cards would be a good idea to help out dive operators.
Katamuki
October 23rd, 2009, 09:13 PM
Dont you actually ask the divers what they are qualified for?
Wookie
October 23rd, 2009, 09:28 PM
Dont you actually ask the divers what they are qualified for?
Ummmm....Yeah, but that doesn't really mean they all know....
Seriously. Some of my newer cards list a max depth. None list a minimum O2 content. I think normoxic is 16% or better, but it might be 18%. I just can't remember, and it's sometimes hard to find standards on websites. When I have to deal with many potential certifying agencies, it's just nice to know what folks are certified to dive to. I get asked if a normoxic diver (200 feet) can dive on the Rhein, Araby Maid, etc. The answer is yes, but the bottom of those wrecks is 240 and 220 respectively, so I just need to warn them of what to expect....
coldsmoke
October 23rd, 2009, 10:07 PM
Ummmm....Yeah, but that doesn't really mean they all know....
Scary
Hunter
Texasdivechick
October 24th, 2009, 12:02 AM
That makes your job kinda hard, eh Frank?
BTW, can't wait to do another DT trip. I had a blast last year.
Walter
October 24th, 2009, 08:54 AM
Nope, it's because folks ask me which trips are appropriate for them.
It's an easy fix. Ask them what their limits are considering their training and experience. After you get that info, you can tell them which sites fall within their limits. Once you start telling them they are qualified for specific sites, it appears to me (not a lawyer) you'd be opening yourself up to more liability. Seems to me (I'm still not a lawyer) you'd have less liability by stressing they need to stay within the limits of their training and experience, providing them with site info and a boat ride without making judgements on qualifications except when someone is obviously not qualified to make a particular dive. I would not tell someone they are qualified for a dive. I would let them make that determination.
D_B
October 24th, 2009, 09:07 AM
Walter makes a good point
... give them the info on the sites and they should be able to determine if it falls within their training and skill level
Rick Inman
October 24th, 2009, 10:08 AM
Cards. Even if every agency had the exact same certification standard, the same names, and they all listed it in exactly the same way on the card, that would have little to do with the qualifications and experience of the diver. Unless you dive with me for a while, you cannot know my qualifications to dive a particular site. Best you can do is interview me and hope my self-assessment is fair and honest.
Personally, I prefer boats that are taxi-es, not babysitters.
