Just a bit deeper in Belize...

[SwimsLikeRock]

I'm going on a cruise this February with a stop in Belize. I'd like to take the dive excursion to Turneffe Atoll while there. Thing is... I'm only a moderately experienced diver with around 30 dives to depths no greater than 60ft or so. Surfing the web, I see the dives listed there as being more like 80-100ft. I know the PADI line would be I need "Deep Diver" certification but... Practically speaking, what's involved in that extra 20 or 40 feet? Assuming I follow the dive master's and/or my dive computer's recommendations, can I dive these depths with the same techniques I've used to date?

[Blackwood]

Practically speaking, what's involved in that extra 20 or 40 feet?

It's all about gas. The deeper you go, the more you need.

Is there a huge difference between 60 and 80 feet? No.


Assuming I follow the dive master's and/or my dive computer's recommendations, can I dive these depths with the same techniques I've used to date?

:popcorn:

[DiveMom1]

I would recomend more training if you are going. It may or may not be a problem for you... but is it really worth the risk? You have plenty of time for an AOW and/or Deep diver certification. If you have to ask what the difference is.. I advise a class. Money well spent even if you decide "afterward" you really didn't need it.

Too many vacations go horribly wrong! JMHO

[Vlane]

If you are comfortable with doing those dives then chances are you will be fine. With a buddy and a DM you shouldn't have a whole lot to worry about except maybe narcosis. AOW doesn't necessarily teach you a whole lot more about going deeper, but rather other skills such as navigation. People have been diving further than 60' for many years without having an AOW certification. If you want some more reading pick up the PADI Adventures in Diving Manual and read the deep diving section.

With this I'm not saying don't take AOW. I'm glad I took AOW and I learned some skills from it, but if you're going to take it just for one vacation it isn't really needed.

[TMHeimer]

My first boat dives exceeded 60, but I was assigned a DM for $20 extra. Felt OK--was good to know a pro was my buddy. AOW gets you to 100 and PADI Deep Diver to the 130 max. As Blackwood said-- really watch how fast your tank empties down there, and keep track of that anchor line if not with a DM.

[AzAtty]

Assuming I follow the dive master's and/or my dive computer's recommendations, can I dive these depths with the same techniques I've used to date?

Oh my...

The techniques are really no different--plan your dive, dive your plan, breathe in, breathe out, monitor depth, time, gas pressure, and buoyancy control on both descent and ascent--but going deeper entails additional risks and you need to monitor those items more closely than you do on shallow dives. Also, you need to plan your dive more conservatively, e.g. don't push the envelope on no-decompression limits.

As to the dive master's recommendations...do you trust him with your life?

Concerning a computer, it is a planning and monitoring aid, not a control device, IMHO.

That said, your existing experience may have already prepared you well. If you're accustomed to diving off the New England coast, there's little that Belize can throw at you in the way of water that you probably haven't handled already.

[vjanelle]

The deeper the dive, the faster you use gas. There's also the greatly reduced no-decompression times, line usage, ascent rates, safety stops (you may wish to do deep/Pyle stops), additional exposure protection needed, different gas mixes (may with to use nitrox)... In reality the dive isn't that much complicated (if you have an ascent line and a competent DM), just darker and sometimes not as much life.

At 30 dives (if you're doing it regularly) you're probably starting to grasp your buoyancy and breathing a bit better than an OW diver on dive 5 of their career. If you're a vacation diver you may wish to do an AOW course or a refresher before attempting this.

[Garrobo]

Go for it. I did the Speigle Grove with a DM with only 10 dives under my belt at 66 years old. Man up.

[spectrum]

SwimsLikeRock

If you have been making New England dives to 60 feet or so then you'll be entirely comfortable going to 100 feet.

What cares the crap out of me is doing so following the lead of the DM and your computer. To wonder what is involved with nearly doubling your depth to date tells me you are not prepared to do it.

While tropical water will be warm and clear you will still consume air at an increased rate and will farther than ever from the surface.

I second the recommendations to either seek further training or dive within your limits.

Pete

[Charlie59]

Best advise would be to work on deep dive before you go. AOW will allow you to dive with an instructor to depth. There are few differences to diving deeper. The differences in air consumption and attention to ascent rates are important, but the possibility of narcosis is the greatest risk.

I'm not sure what manning up is in diving. Limit your risks. If you do it without further training please dive with a more experienced diver (considering 30 dives experienced is bold) as your buddy and let the divemaster know your situation.

Remember that if you are diving with a group the divemaster has a responsibility for all the divers.

Good luck and have fun but dive safe.

[scubadobadoo]

Good advice so far! I'll add another thought. The LONG AND EXPENSIVE trip to the atoll from a cruise ship so you can dive for 30 minutes or less due to the depths IMHO is not worth the increase in price and time to get there. If you must dive while in Belize just do the cheaper trip to the reefs. Even the cheaper trip is a long ride but at least you can spend some decent time underwater on some nice reefs in warm water. My advice when diving from a cruise ship in Belize is to skip it and do the cave tubing. Have fun! You certainly will no matter what you choose to do!!!! That's the good news. :)

[vladimir]

I'm going on a cruise this February with a stop in Belize. I'd like to take the dive excursion to Turneffe Atoll while there. Thing is... I'm only a moderately experienced diver with around 30 dives to depths no greater than 60ft or so. Surfing the web, I see the dives listed there as being more like 80-100ft. I know the PADI line would be I need "Deep Diver" certification but... Practically speaking, what's involved in that extra 20 or 40 feet? Assuming I follow the dive master's and/or my dive computer's recommendations, can I dive these depths with the same techniques I've used to date?The marquee dive at Turneffe is The Elbow. The reef tops out at 60' and goes very deep. What makes it a great dive is a brisk current carrying you south (if the current's not there, the dive is mediocre, at best) to a bend (hence, The Elbow) in the reef where the current quickens and predators gather. You will see good-sized schools of jacks, snapper, Spanish mackerel, permit, etc, that are not routinely seen in the Caribbean. If you're lucky (but not lottery lucky, I have seen all of this) you'll see a pod of dolphins, a squadron of eagle rays, a hammerhead or a reef shark.

Here's the problem, from a beginner's perspective: the meat of the dive is near it's end, where the top of the reef is about 100' deep. On most reef dives, you can meander shallower as your gas dwindles, leaving you near safety stop depth when your gas gets low without a lot of planning on your part. At The Elbow, you'll want to be 80' to 100' deep 30 minutes into the dive. You might be tempted to push your luck with your gas reserves, especially if you are a bit of a gas guzzler, as new divers tend to be. If you resist that temptation and are disciplined about maintaining proper gas reserves, than I see no reason not to do any dive at Turneffe, assuming decent surface conditions.

While you're out there, re-evaluate your idea of a vacation. The Turneffe Island Resort (http://www.turnefferesort.com/), which takes a maximum of 22 guests on the whole private island, or a cruise ship that probably packs 22 people into each hot tub? ;)

Either way, though, have a great trip.

[BDSC]

I'm going on a cruise this February with a stop in Belize. I'd like to take the dive excursion to Turneffe Atoll while there. Thing is... I'm only a moderately experienced diver with around 30 dives to depths no greater than 60ft or so. Surfing the web, I see the dives listed there as being more like 80-100ft. I know the PADI line would be I need "Deep Diver" certification but... Practically speaking, what's involved in that extra 20 or 40 feet? Assuming I follow the dive master's and/or my dive computer's recommendations, can I dive these depths with the same techniques I've used to date?

I'd say go do the dives and don't worry about any extra training or courses at this time. You really don't need the deep diver cert. to do what you are talking about doing. Based on what you have already done, you shouldn't have any problems.

I got my OW cert in 1991 (I think it was) and then got my AOW about 18 months later. By that time I had already had several dives to 120 to 130 ft. Have never gotten a "Deep Diver" cert and have done numerous dives below 150ft.

It's not that more training is a bad thing, obviously it's not, but it's not always necessary to do a dive that may be a little different or more challenging than what you have already done. Good common sense will go a long way.

[tomboyy]

You might re-think your dive op ... there is one within walking distance 2 dives lunch on a private island plenty to see no rush. I can give you a full description later if you PM me.. gotta get to work

[DCBC]

I'm going on a cruise this February with a stop in Belize. I'd like to take the dive excursion to Turneffe Atoll while there. Thing is... I'm only a moderately experienced diver with around 30 dives to depths no greater than 60ft or so. Surfing the web, I see the dives listed there as being more like 80-100ft. I know the PADI line would be I need "Deep Diver" certification but... Practically speaking, what's involved in that extra 20 or 40 feet? Assuming I follow the dive master's and/or my dive computer's recommendations, can I dive these depths with the same techniques I've used to date?

If you have cold water experience at 60', I doubt that you will run into difficulty at 80-100' in warm clear water. However, you first must have good buoyancy control and an accurate knowledge of your gas consumption rate.

In the Caribbean, many divers end up diving deeper than they plan. They see something relatively close-by and don't see the hazard in swimming over to check-it-out. Diving in this environment often lulls divers into a false sense of security; where they stay too long, use too much gas, or experience narcosis which complicates the dive plan.

Be careful and enjoy the cruise! :-)

Wayne

[cloudswinger]

In the Caribbean, many divers end up diving deeper than they plan. They see something relatively close-by and don't see the hazard in swimming over to check-it-out. Diving in a this environment often lulls divers into a false sense of security; where they stay too long, use too much gas, or experience narcosis which complicates the dive plan.


Yes, you could do what I did, and follow a fish down the wall. I was below 100ft before I knew it. It's so clear you have no visual cues that you're getting too deep, and only a good buddy(one practically right next to you) will help. And you don't know yet how narcosis will affect you. You don't know how much air you'll be using, since it's deeper than you've ever dove before. It's a short dive and a long boat trip. And cruise ships don't wait around for passengers either. There's a lot of cons.

[diver 85]

I'm going on a cruise this February with a stop in Belize. I'd like to take the dive excursion to Turneffe Atoll while there. Thing is... I'm only a moderately experienced diver with around 30 dives to depths no greater than 60ft or so. Surfing the web, I see the dives listed there as being more like 80-100ft. I know the PADI line would be I need "Deep Diver" certification but... Practically speaking, what's involved in that extra 20 or 40 feet? Assuming I follow the dive master's and/or my dive computer's recommendations, can I dive these depths with the same techniques I've used to date?


Short answer: yes..........just watch your air & remember to ascend slow(ly), like I'm sure you always do....You'll be fine I'm betting....

[DCBC]

Yes, you could do what I did, and follow a fish down the wall. I was below 100ft before I knew it.

Yes, that's the way of it. People get caught-up with taking in the wonders (which is easy to do, especially if it's your first experience) and end-up deeper than you expected.

Good point about the narcosis cloudswinger. If you have never been deep enough, how do you know how it will affect you?

I like to take my students on a chamber ride before openwater, to give them the experience of narcosis. The chamber can give them a hint, but in real life it's not always that pleasant. Hopefully all divers will try to do this, but not always will chamber locations cooperate with local divers.

[Kingpatzer]

As others have alluded to, the answer isn't really that clear. Diving in limited vis cold water to 60' isn't really comparable to diving clear warm water to 100'. You face different risks and challenges in those two environments.

It really comes down to being conservative in your dive plan, sticking to your plan, maintaining your buddy team, and being willing to abort your dive if you have the slightest discomfort or difficulty with what you're doing.

If you do those things, then you'll be fine. If you don't, then depth doesn't really matter.

Be extra aware of gas consumption for deeper dives, other than that, follow your brain and have fun.

[SwimsLikeRock]

Thank you all for your responses! I appreciate all of the input. Specifically...


I would recomend more training if you are going.

Spoken like a true mom! ;)


you shouldn't have a whole lot to worry about except maybe narcosis.

And this is best dealt with by gradual depth changes and an observant buddy?


As to the dive master's recommendations...do you trust him with your life?

Hell no. I own my own survival, but I do need to take guidance from his expertise. I'd plan to rely on the DM, my computer, and my training and experience.


Man up.

Good point! Screw the preparation! I'll just hold my breath and go! :)


If you have been making New England dives to 60 feet or so then you'll be entirely comfortable going to 100 feet.

What cares the crap out of me is doing so following the lead of the DM and your computer. To wonder what is involved with nearly doubling your depth to date tells me you are not prepared to do it.

I appreciate this input. Both sides of it.


The marquee dive at Turneffe is The Elbow...

Good details. Thanks. And yah, but I'm the only one in the family who dives so having the cruise ship along gives the others something to do! ;)

[Hank49]

The marquee dive at Turneffe is The Elbow. The reef tops out at 60' and goes very deep. What makes it a great dive is a brisk current carrying you south (if the current's not there, the dive is mediocre, at best) to a bend (hence, The Elbow) in the reef where the current quickens and predators gather. You will see good-sized schools of jacks, snapper, Spanish mackerel, permit, etc, that are not routinely seen in the Caribbean. If you're lucky (but not lottery lucky, I have seen all of this) you'll see a pod of dolphins, a squadron of eagle rays, a hammerhead or a reef shark.

Here's the problem, from a beginner's perspective: the meat of the dive is near it's end, where the top of the reef is about 100' deep. On most reef dives, you can meander shallower as your gas dwindles, leaving you near safety stop depth when your gas gets low without a lot of planning on your part. At The Elbow, you'll want to be 80' to 100' deep 30 minutes into the dive. You might be tempted to push your luck with your gas reserves, especially if you are a bit of a gas guzzler, as new divers tend to be. If you resist that temptation and are disciplined about maintaining proper gas reserves, than I see no reason not to do any dive at Turneffe, assuming decent surface conditions.


Either way, though, have a great trip.

This is a pretty good description of the Elbow. I see the schools of snapper, horse eye jacks, permit etc up and down that southeast end for about 1/4 mile or more, not to mention lots of grouper and other bottom fish along the top of the wall. The top of the wall is usually about 50-70 feet, so if you're comfortable (the op, that is) at 60 feet, see if you can get a buddy to hang out with you on top of the wall and follow the bubbles of the deeper divers as they go south.
I do question the statement above, "you want to be at 80-100 feet deep, 30 minutes into your dive". Doesn't about 17 minutes on air at 100 feet put you into decompression mode on the first dive of the day. ?? Or am I missing something here?

[vladimir]

This is a pretty good description of the Elbow. I see the schools of snapper, horse eye jacks, permit etc up and down that southeast end for about 1/4 mile or more, not to mention lots of grouper and other bottom fish along the top of the wall. The top of the wall is usually about 50-70 feet, so if you're comfortable (the op, that is) at 60 feet, see if you can get a buddy to hang out with you on top of the wall and follow the bubbles of the deeper divers as they go south.
I do question the statement above, "you want to be at 80-100 feet deep, 30 minutes into your dive". Doesn't about 17 minutes on air at 100 feet put you into decompression mode on the first dive of the day. ?? Or am I missing something here?I was speaking off the top of my head, but I think I'm pretty close. I am probably off on the exact depth or time--I am sure you know it better than I do--but I have done it half a dozen times, at least. It would be a decompression dive if you planned it using tables and air. I have always used nitrox. A computer will take in to account that you spent most of those first 30' much shallower than 100', and you will only be spending a few minutes at that depth before the current whisks you off of the reef and into a gradual blue-water ascent (where I have been greeted by frolicking dolphins:D).

[rongoodman]

Do a search on Rock Bottom or Minimum Gas. You need to have enough gas at any depth to get you and your buddy back to the surface at a reasonable rate of ascent. You might be surprised how much gas that will be at 100 ft.

[cloudswinger]

And this is best dealt with by gradual depth changes and an observant buddy?


Narcosis is dependant on the person. It can come on suddenly. Your buddy can be narced before you. And for me, I didn't think I was narced, but we decided I must have been since I was doing something that I normally wouldn't have. Which was just being very la-di-da, no cares in the world, just kept swimming after a pretty fishy. Following a fishy wherever it went. It's not obvious at all. It's all fine to say dive your plan, but when you become mentally impaired, those plans fly out of your brain. It's like being a little bit drunk, that line is hazy, and sometimes you don't realize you've crossed it until you're doing something stupid. And it doesn't take much fish chasing at that depth to run out of time or air or both. Make sure you have a good buddy, going deep for the first time is not the place to be going solo too.

[vladimir]

Do a search on Rock Bottom or Minimum Gas. You need to have enough gas at any depth to get you and your buddy back to the surface at a reasonable rate of ascent. You might be surprised how much gas that will be at 100 ft.Thanks Ron; wish I'd seen that on one of my prior 1,000 visits to this site. Looks complicated though...lots of math. I think I'll stick to my spare air. The website says it'll get me to the surface from 150', so 100' should be a walk in the park, right?

[halemanō]

My first dive after certification was a shore dive to 90' looking for scattered wreckage, with my fellow certification classmates. Headed back to shore when the first tank hit 1500 psi, just like we were trained. Not much to it.

Saturday I guided 5 divers at Monolith off Lanai, 2 on their first dive after certification. Our planned max depth was 90'. I told the newbs they could easily stay above me and still be part of the group. Buddy skills are the responsibility of the buddy teams. Not much to it.

You have a greater chance of being seriously injured driving to the nearest convenience store. Life is a continual risk, does worrying about it make it less risky or more risky?

[DandyDon]

I did 100 ft on a Resort course dive before I certified. Fun, but not the way to go.

You can prepare and train for these dives. Newbies do them all the time at many destinations, but you can prepare better, like with a Nitrox card. Requesting 100 cf tanks would be good.

[SwimsLikeRock]

Requesting 100 cf tanks would be good.

That seems like a good safety measure too! Thanks.

[Hoomi]

We're going to Fiji in February, and we've already planned on picking up our AOW course and doing the AOW dives while there. Yeah, we could do the dives without AOW, but we'd like to go ahead and get the advanced cert anyway. If we're going to, why not do the dives someplace awesome?

Have you looked into that option for your trip to Belize?

[rongoodman]

Thanks Ron; wish I'd seen that on one of my prior 1,000 visits to this site. Looks complicated though...lots of math. I think I'll stick to my spare air. The website says it'll get me to the surface from 150', so 100' should be a walk in the park, right?

It doesn't have to be. It's nice to know where the numbers come from, or to be able adjust the numbers to match your own preferences, but for resort diving I just have the turn pressures for 30', 60', and 100' on Aluminum 80s in the back of my head.

[ScubaInChicago]

On an AL80 at 100' a good turn pressure where you thumb the dive or go much shallower would be 1500-1600 psi. This takes into account an emergency at max depth and 2 min to sort the problem out. It also takes into account an increased breathing rate of 2 diver sharing air, making their stops, and ascending to the surface. As Ron said above, you should figure out where the numbers are coming from and how to adjust them to better suit you and a teammate.

[vladimir]

You guys are tone deaf to sarcasm.

Why not turn it at 2000 psi--just to give yourself another few minutes to sort the problem out? Oh wait, then you can't do the dive, because I promise you the operator who sevices the cruise ship customers doesn't have 100 cf tanks.

I have a surface consumption rate of .50 cubic feet per minute. From 30 meters it will take me 3 minutes to surface at 10 meters per minute. Our average depth will be 15 meters or 2.5 ata, so we'll use 7.5 cubic feet of air to ascend. (3 x 2.5 x 2 x .5)

I know; you'd like me to take a minute to solve the problem at 4 ata, you'd like me to do a three-minute safety stop even though it is optional, and you'd like me to assume that my gas consumption doubles because my neck O-ring just blew at the deepest portion of my dive (what are the odds?). Let's just say that I enjoy living close to the edge and agree that we all have our own risk threshholds.

Even if I triple my reserve to 22.5 cubic feet I still have plenty of gas in my AL80 to do this dive as I described. If I average 25 meters depth during the 27 minute gradual descent to 30 meters, I will expend (3.5 x .5 x 27) 47.25 cubic feet, another (4 x .5 x 3) 6 cubic feet for the 3 minutes at 30 meters, leaving me 24.25 cubic feet for exigencies.

[scubadobadoo]

We're going to Fiji in February, and we've already planned on picking up our AOW course and doing the AOW dives while there. Yeah, we could do the dives without AOW, but we'd like to go ahead and get the advanced cert anyway. If we're going to, why not do the dives someplace awesome?

Have you looked into that option for your trip to Belize?

I highly suggest this advice! However, in this case I believe the OP is diving from a cruise ship only once in Belize. He might be able to take an AOW course from the cruise ship but I am not sure I would suggest that. No real way to speak to the instructor and see if they are worth it. I have worked as an actor on cruise ships and spent some time on them. The level of instruction varies greatly.

[Scubagolf]

In years past I have done a couple dozen dives with cruise ship excursions. I think you will find that cruise ship excursions dives will generally be in the 60 - 80' range on the first dives if they are offering two tank boat trips which is typical. I would be very surprised to see them deeper than 80'. If you are comfortable in the water I would not hesitate to go that deep. AOW is a good certification to get, at some point, because there are a lot of operators that refuse to take you on deeper dives without it, or maybe if your log book demonstrates deep diving experience.

For additional advice and info on diving off of specific cruise boats, you should go to: Scuba and Snorkeling - Cruise Critic Message Boards (http://boards.cruisecritic.com/forumdisplay.php?f=40)

[DandyDon]

Ok I over read that it was diving from a cruise, sorry. Probly not much chance in getting Nitrox or 100 cf tanks either one. Since the thread originator has been a member for over 4 years here with only 30 or so dives, he may not want to bother with advanced training - preferring to stick to the occasional vacation dives. I'm not really able to offer good suggestions; sorry for interrupting.

[ScubaInChicago]

So you have a .5 SCR rate, you have had the time to figure it out to suit yourself. but assuming the average OOG situation and a SCR of 1 which is not unheard of and is a very good median I'll break down the following; 2 divers diving to 100' (4 ATA) with an AL80 and one goes OOG.

2 divers x 1.0 SCR each x 4 atm x 1 min emergency at 100' = 8cf
2 divers x 1.0 SCR each x 3 atm x 2 min (30' per min)assent time to 50' deep stop = 12cf
2 divers x 1.0 SCR each x 3 atm x 1 min deep stop at 50' =6cf
2 divers x 1.0 SCR each x avg 2 atm x 5 min (30 sec slide and 30 sec stops at 40', 30' 20' 10' then surface)=20 cf
thats 46 cf to deal with an emergency, hit your stops, and surface without the potential of bubble forming and DCS.

77.4 cf in an AL80/3000 psi = 0.025 x 100psi interval marks = 2.5 Tank factor (AKA each 100 psi mark is equal to 2.5 Cubic Feet)

46 cf divided by 2.5 = 18.4 (aka 1840 psi)

Thats the plain and simple math, that takes into account 2 stressed divers from depth safely surfacing. If the S*^@ hits the fan and you had to do a 40' lateral breath hold to get to your buddy do you think .5 SCR is the right number to use???? Will a spare air with 3cf get you back to the surface safely?

Again, use the numbers, if your profile can be multileveled it will allow you to recalculate the number at a shallower depth that you didn't use as an emergency reserve at 4 atm. If you dive with a teammate who will be at your side and know the OOG situation is something you have planned for and can do with a lower SCR, plan for that. Bolt for the surface and we might be reading about you in the passing section or a maybe just a trip to the chamber.

Use what's between your ears for something other then slinging s*&^ at common sense.

[vladimir]

So you have a .5 SCR rate, you have had the time to figure it out to suit yourself.So in addition to doubting my common sense, you doubt my honesty. Nice. It is possible (though it would be pathetic) that I made up a surface consumption rate, but I certainly didn't do it to to suit this discussion--I have reported that rate, or something very close to it, in prior discussions on the Scubaboard. Do a search if you like. Do you find a .50 cu ft per minute SCR implausible for an experienced diver drifting in warm, clear, tropical water?



but assuming the average OOG situation and a SCR of 1 which is not unheard of and is a very good median I'll break down the following; 2 divers diving to 100' (4 ATA) with an AL80 and one goes OOG.

2 divers x 1.0 SCR each x 4 atm x 1 min emergency at 100' = 8cf
2 divers x 1.0 SCR each x 3 atm x 2 min (30' per min)assent time to 50' deep stop = 12cf
2 divers x 1.0 SCR each x 3 atm x 1 min deep stop at 50' =6cf
2 divers x 1.0 SCR each x avg 2 atm x 5 min (30 sec slide and 30 sec stops at 40', 30' 20' 10' then surface)=20 cf
thats 46 cf to deal with an emergency, hit your stops, and surface without the potential of bubble forming and DCS.

77.4 cf in an AL80/3000 psi = 0.025 x 100psi interval marks = 2.5 Tank factor (AKA each 100 psi mark is equal to 2.5 Cubic Feet)

46 cf divided by 2.5 = 18.4 (aka 1840 psi)

Thats the plain and simple math, that takes into account 2 stressed divers from depth safely surfacing. If the S*^@ hits the fan and you had to do a 40' lateral breath hold to get to your buddy do you think .5 SCR is the right number to use????

Thanks for educating me.

Please note that if I use 1 cu feet per minute I still have adequate reserves. Yes, I am willing to skip your deep stop and your safety stop. (By the way, I skip deep stops on every dive. Do you think I should start doing them on the dive that I lose my gas supply?)

I am willing to ascend at 10 meters per minute directly to the surface. The whole trip takes 3 minutes. I realize that is not how you were taught and that is not your practice. Does that make it reckless? I think that there is widespread agreement that that is a reasonably safe, though perhaps not ideal, ascent rate.

I reject your assumption that I have to allow for a minute to initiate an ascent (assent=to agree). Why would I have a 40' lateral swim to get to my buddy? Didn't the guys who taught you rock bottom also teach you buddy skills? But even if I stay for a minute at maximum depth, I still have adequate reserves.

I understand that you like to keep reserves for every possible contingency. I understand that these are strongly held beliefs on your part. I accept that these might be prudent for you and the way you dive. For me, diving in warm tropical water and 80' visibility, in excellent shape and having done CESAs from 60' and 80' in the past, having brought a drowning diver safely to the surface and to shore from depth without panic or undue gas consumption, I am comfortable with a 24.25 cubic foot gas reserve on that dive.



Will a spare air with 3cf get you back to the surface safely?The Spare Air comment was sarcasm; a joke. If you didn't get it the first time, you should have gotten a hint when I said, "you guys are tone deaf to sarcasm."


Use what's between your ears for something other then slinging s*&^ at common sense.I guess I'm pretty lucky that the person who has a monopoly on common sense has deigned to bestow some of it on me. Thanks. <more sarcasm>

[SwimsLikeRock]

Since the thread originator has been a member for over 4 years here with only 30 or so dives, he may not want to bother with advanced training - preferring to stick to the occasional vacation dives.

Probably true. I typically get to dive about once a year in tropical waters during a family cruise/vacation and once or twice with buddies in the Cape Ann waters of Massachusetts.

While I am interested in furthering my dive education, I'd likely not use my one trip to the Caribbean a year for that purpose and instead do it locally - despite the added complications of the relatively cool water.

Sarcasm not withstanding, I'm learning a lot on this thread. I appreciate all of the input!

[vladimir]

Sarcasm not withstanding, I'm learning a lot on this thread. I appreciate all of the input!I am glad you find some of it useful. What we can all agree on, I think, and the impetus behind my original post, is the need to plan your gas usage. Here is a good explanation of the thought process:

NWGratefulDiver.com (http://www.nwgratefuldiver.com/articles/gas.html)

Feel free to adjust assumptions based on your own experience, risk tolerance, and dive conditions.;)

[Hank49]

I am glad you find some of it useful. What we can all agree on, I think, and the impetus behind my original post, is the need to plan your gas usage. Here is a good explanation of the thought process:

NWGratefulDiver.com (http://www.nwgratefuldiver.com/articles/gas.html)

Feel free to adjust assumptions based on your own experience, risk tolerance, and dive conditions.;)

But more importantly, did you see the big a$$ cuberas hanging with the dog snappers at the 3rd buoy from the south at the Elbow. Monsters.
I shot a nice horse eye there a couple weeks ago and had a tax collector in a gray suit with lots of teeth come and grab it right off the spear...taking shooting line and shaft. The Elbow is a "active" spot.

[vladimir]

But more importantly, did you see the big a$$ cuberas hanging with the dog snappers at the 3rd buoy from the south at the Elbow. Monsters.:D As I said earlier, I am sure you know the spot a lot better than I do. It is a gorgeous dive though--I guess all those predators are hanging out there for a reason.

[SnapSlap]

Not a big difference. Just conserve more air for your ascent, pay attention to tables and computers, stay longer on your surface interval.