Aqua-Lung Online

[mdb]

2009 Aqua Lung Catalog (http://aqualung.mwrc.net/en/category.php)

The new AL store is up and running. You can buy direct from Aqua-Lung today. The LDS
Authorized Dealer is included in this.

[PhilEllis]

2009 Aqua Lung Catalog (http://aqualung.mwrc.net/en/category.php)

The new AL store is up and running. You can buy direct from Aqua-Lung today. The LDS
Authorized Dealer is included in this.

Apparently, selling online has lost the "danger" it previously (last night) had.

What if you don't LIKE the local retailer? Looks to be the same "model" used by Oceanic and Atomic. How is that working out?

Phil Ellis
www.divesports.com

[Divin'Hoosier]

I assume you still have to present yourself at the shop to pick it up. No shipping allowed. No real change here. One fixed price and you have to get it from one of your local shops. They are still clueless.

[Bubbletrubble]

I clicked on the Aqualung Online Store link. The website lists a price or range of prices for each item. However, the customer is then asked to input a zipcode to receive a list of nearby authorized Aqualung dealers. [-]As far as I can tell, the transaction would then take place at a brick-and-mortar authorized dealer.[/-]

[-]I really wouldn't call this direct purchasing from Aqualung at all...although it does appear that the local dealer would have to adhere to the listed price (where specified).[/-]

Oops! I now see the "Buy Now" and "Add to Cart" buttons. This does appear to be a change in the way Aqualung does business. I wonder how authorized Aqualung dealers feel about this. Even though customers might be able to arrange to pick up the gear at their local dive shop, it does seem like the dealer is getting cut out of the action. Or perhaps some "arrangement" is being made between Aqualung and dealer with a set amount of profit per item going to the dealer (kind of like a referral commission).

[PhilEllis]

But, it is an online store! Damn, I got kicked out for having a good idea, only earlier.

Phil Ellis
www.divesports.com

[mdb]

Jim: AL will ship direct to you. You can exchange return direct to them. The price is MSRP+shipping
if it comes direct to you. No shipping charges if delivered through the Authorized LDS.

[Divin'Hoosier]

Jim: AL will ship direct to you. You can exchange return direct to them. The price is MSRP+shipping
if it comes direct to you. No shipping charges if delivered through the Authorized LDS.

That is certainly a change. Interesting.

[Divin'Hoosier]

But, it is an online store! Damn, I got kicked out for having a good idea, only earlier.

Phil Ellis
www.divesports.com (http://www.divesports.com)

Maybe they'd let you back in now? :D

[john1bl]

Well Will the LDS warrant a reg bought on line??
I can hear it now
LDS :you bought that on line so it is not covered by the parts for life or a warranty.
Customer: But I bought it from Aqualung!!!
LDS : If you bought it on line it is not covered by any warranty or parts for life!!!

[PhilEllis]

Clipped from the authorized Aqua Lung website this morning at 9:38 CST. Looks like their policies are just a little behind their reality.

Phil Ellis
www.divesports.com


Please be aware that not every business that advertises and sells Aqua Lung branded products is an Authorized Aqua Lung Dealer. Retailers that offer to sell and ship Aqua Lung or affiliate branded life support products by mail in response to mail, telephone, or Internet orders ARE NOT AUTHORIZED AQUA LUNG AMERICA DEALERS.

If you purchase Aqua Lung or affiliate branded life support products by mail, telephone order, or electronically, you are purchasing from a non-authorized dealer and your products will not be covered by Aqua Lung America warranties. Aqua Lung America has not authorized any exceptions to the "in-store" sales policy.

[PhilEllis]

Maybe they'd let you back in now? :D

Just like in scuba diving......."don't hold your breath".

Phil Ellis
www.divesports.com

[R0gue]

Just a quick glance but the online prices appear to be higher than the LDS's in my area.

[oly5050user]

Appears that you have to pick a LDS to purchase item..they give you a choice of several in the area accordingto the zip code you put in..I would think that the LDS gets the sale and Aqualung either credits the LDS or pays them a commission for being the area dealer.I am sure the LDS gets something out of this or just watch Aqualung being dropped by them.

[PhilEllis]

The move to online sales for many companies is based on a completely erroneous understandings. Often, they fail to understand why EXISTING online operations are successful. They simply assume that an online merchant presence is much like the "build it and they will come" model. That, combined with their brand, will make everything successful.

And in some cases, they never really INTEND to succeed.

Phil Ellis
www.divesports.com

[legendlx]

they will ship directly to your house. you as the consumer have the option to either have the product delivered or pick it up at your lds.

[JimLap]

But they are still selling those god-awful looking snorkels with huge top that no one with any brains would use diving. They are behind the times.

[mike_s]

so does this mean that LDS's are going to be able to start selling AL on line also?


I knew AL would have to come to this eventually as they are getting left behind in the dust... but this sure makes them look like a hypocrite after bashing online sales for so many years.

[theduckguru]

Your going to love this, the customer can have shipped direct and pay shipping or have shipped to LDS without shipping.

The LDS is going to get a merchandise credit toward future purchases for handing the shipped product, but no credit toward their minimum annual sales requirment.

The stuff direct will cost more than at the LDS because AL wont even do the measley 10% that every AL dealer can give.

The question is, will the LDS's accepting shipment charge the customer for assembly because the customer is receiving unassembled product.

[mike_s]

they will ship directly to your house. you as the consumer have the option to either have the product delivered or pick it up at your lds.

hmmm.... just joined and this is your first post.


do you work for Aqualung?

[JS1scuba]

All you need to do is enter zip code 86404 and select Scuba Training and Technology Inc. / TDL and it will come directly to us and we will then turn it right around to you after we set it up and we will cover your shipping. As an Aqualung dealer I think it's a cool system. It's not perfect and i dont have a lot of control over it but it's a start.

<im at dema this week and will not check posts till the evening - if you need something text me>

Cheers

[PhilEllis]

The Aqua Lung website is an MWRC Internet LLC website. This company is another of those companies that specialize in the "distribution conflict" types of plans that allow the manufacturer to sell directly to the public, while providing a dealer, identified by the buyer, with a commission. Another company that provides this type of service is Shopatron.

Aqua Lung appears to be handling phone orders/customer service calls through a direct phone number to the in-house inside sales operation that has typically handled local dive store contact. I have no inside knowledge, but they may have "dedicated" people on the task of handling retail customers.

MWRC has a unique little feature. The highest commission is provided to a local dealer when the product is shipped directly to the dealer for delivery. However, dealers receive notification, and a lower commission, when someone who "selected" them has a product shipped directly to them. If the dealer phones them and convinces them to come into the store for various "enhancement services", the dealer can apply to MWRC for an additional small commission.

During checkout, the customer is required to acknowledge that they are purchasing the product directly from Aqua Lung and that Aqua Lung will handle all customer service/returns/complaints for the product directly.

Phil Ellis
www.divesports.com

[RJP]

If you purchase Aqua Lung or affiliate branded life support products by mail, telephone order, or electronically, you are purchasing from a non-authorized dealer and your products will not be covered by Aqua Lung America warranties. Aqua Lung America has not authorized any exceptions to the "in-store" sales policy.



Hmm...so apparently AquaLung is not an authorized AquaLung dealer.

Who knew?

:shocked2:

[mike_s]

Hmm...so apparently AquaLung is not an authorized AquaLung dealer.

Who knew?

:shocked2:

well we're talking about the same geniuses that now sell products online but also have a warning that says if you buy it online, it doesn't come with a warranty.


Their decision making process with Aqualung management seems quite clueless...

[Web Monkey]

You guys can rag on AL all you want, but in the end, their online policy protects their dealers by not undercutting them. Dealers that can sell a product, make a profit and stay in business, lets the manufacturer also make a profit and stay in business.

Having seen this before (four separate times) in major appliances, electronics, furniture and kitchen cabinets, I can tell you that when the dust settles, AL & SCUBAPro will still be in business and a lot of the manufacturers that are letting everybody slit their own throats will be gone.

Terry

[PhilEllis]

You guys can rag on AL all you want, but in the end, their online policy protects their dealers by not undercutting them. Dealers that can sell a product, make a profit and stay in business, lets the manufacturer also make a profit and stay in business.

Having seen this before (four separate times) in major appliances, electronics, furniture and kitchen cabinets, I can tell you that when the dust settles, AL & SCUBAPro will still be in business and a lot of the manufacturers that are letting everybody slit their own throats will be gone.

Terry

On that, I agree completely.

Phil Ellis
www.divesports.com

[stargost]

I really love this forum when post like this are happening ! We are going to have a lot of fun following AL new strategy.

I briefly looked to get more information of AL management team and owners, but couldn't find much, beyond the history about Cousteau, Gagnan, Air Liquid and La Spirotechnique.
Any one knows a way to get more information about the financial and organization of AL ?

One thing I noticed as stated in their webpage, is the list of who their customers are ... right now, it is not us the users. Their customers are the dealers/LDS, government and military entities, and private parties for sub-marine exploration.
"all the people who have a common objective" ... make more money on our divers back.

I'm not sure which marketing person came with this new online strategy. It is interesting, because it is either a new smart guy who is trying to move/improve things but facing some clear internal resistance, or a complete idiot who got to the marketing department after a 2 days ''e-business'' training.
Hopefully it is first case, and things will be shaken and improved...

[maged_mmh]

those prices are way higher that what is available both locally & in Egypt :shocked:

[PhilEllis]

"all the people who have a common objective" ... make more money on our divers back.

You are correct about that.....SCUBA manufacturers and SCUBA dive stores are certainly trying to make money on SCUBA divers "backs". Of course, other ideas are welcome if you have them.

Phil Ellis
www.divesports.com

[mike_s]

those prices are way higher that what is available both locally & in Egypt :shocked:

well AL here is run by "Aqua Lung North America". They control all the pricing, dealer agreements and allowing internet sales.

Until this, AL NA has not allowed internet sales, while in other countries, it's allowed.

Most of the online sites in other countries are price competitive with other gear manufacturers.... not here in the US......


that's why you see the price difference.

[mike_s]

I wonder how long before we see ScubaPro makes a similar change about internet sales ? :popcorn:

[RonFrank]

You guys can rag on AL all you want, but in the end, their online policy protects their dealers by not undercutting them. Dealers that can sell a product, make a profit and stay in business, lets the manufacturer also make a profit and stay in business.

Having seen this before (four separate times) in major appliances, electronics, furniture and kitchen cabinets, I can tell you that when the dust settles, AL & SCUBAPro will still be in business and a lot of the manufacturers that are letting everybody slit their own throats will be gone.

Terry

So price fixing is good, and free market is bad?

I don't agree with that at all....

[stargost]

You are correct about that.....SCUBA manufacturers and SCUBA dive stores are certainly trying to make money on SCUBA divers "backs". Of course, other ideas are welcome if you have them.

Phil Ellis
Discount Scuba Gear at DiveSports.com - Buy Scuba Diving Equipment & Snorkeling Equipment (http://www.divesports.com)

I understand everyone has to make money. You can decide to go for high margin, and somehow restrict your business potential, or find ways to expand the business finding for example different ways to distribute your product and reducing your cost passing on the benefit of lower ASP to end customers.

My comment and disappointment was mostly on the AL webpages statement when you see that the divers are not mentioned in their customers list.

I'm not saying it is easy for this business, and found this AL move on internet to be very interesting, as it can be either a stupid meaningless try with no future, or some sign of future good moves to shake the industry model (and their own approach in particular).

[PhilEllis]

Actually, in the aggregate, I applaud Aqua Lung for the action they have taken. Expanding market opportunities in this climate is always better, and I expect that the management at Aqua Lung feels this is an appropriate expansion effort. Clearly, they have moved online with a strategy designed to avoid "distribution channel conflict", and we will just need to sit and watch to determine the success of such a strategy.

Success with online sales does require that you use all of the tools available to you. I expect that one day, Aqua Lung will allow the existing dealer base to include Aqua Lung products in their online offerings. This will allow online consumers to purchase from who they choose and at the business conditions they choose. This is likely the REAL avenue to success if the objective is to expand the penetration of the product.

Phil Ellis
www.divesports.com

[Web Monkey]

So price fixing is good, and free market is bad?

I don't agree with that at all....

I like price fixing quite a bit for very small markets, especially where the retailers would slit each other's throats for a nickle.

Terry

[RonFrank]

:rofl3::rofl3: Yeah price fixing is where the diving industry is at.. in 1990!

I like the model ScubaToys, LP, and many other retailers are using. It works very well.

If you want top quality service (well maybe) visit the LDS where you can touch and feel, and try stuff out, but you will pay. Online is generally more reserved for those that want bottom line pricing or bargins. But LP, ST's and others are even trying to offer premium service at mail order prices with things like guaranteed fit.

IMO Aqualung is missing the boat here, and it is ONE BIG BOAT!

I disagree Terry, Aqualung may sink unless they start making some changes. In a bad economy, customer perception is big. Maybe they are doing great as a LOT of new divers have no clue how bad LDS pricing is.. but more are catching on in this tight market.

[Web Monkey]

:rofl3::rofl3: Yeah price fixing is where the diving industry is at.. in 1990!

History has a habit of repeating itself.

I guess we'll see.


I like the model ScubaToys, LP, and many other retailers are using. It works very well.


Actually, it only works well for whoever has the best price at the moment. And FWIW, people shopping for the cheapest price aren't actually desirable customers, since they generate little or no profit and will only return to buy something else if you're cheaper than your competitors.

Just for another example, Wegman's Groceries is doing a land-office business based on selling really excellent products. They're typically not anywhere near the least expensive and in fact don't even attempt to compete on price on a lot of items. They don't have to. If you want sashimi-grade fish that was swimming in the ocean yesterday, they're more than happy to sell it and the customers are more than happy to buy it. If you want fresh basil that looks like it's ready for a photo-shoot they have it regardless of whether it's June or January. Same thing with no-hormone no-antibiotic local beef, local sausage, local produce and all sorts of other stuff.

While all the "we're cheaper" grocery stores in Central NY are beating each other's brains out, losing money like it was a race and filing for bankruptcy, Wegmans is packed with shoppers every single day and was busy expanding all down the east coast.


IMO Aqualung is missing the boat here, and it is ONE BIG BOAT!

I disagree Terry, Aqualung may sink unless they start making some changes. In a bad economy, customer perception is big. Maybe they are doing great as a LOT of new divers have no clue how bad LDS pricing is.. but more are catching on in this tight market.

Unlikely. Historically, manufacturers that have maintained pricing and properly managed their dealer network have done much better (profit and survivability) than those that didn't.

Wood-mode kitchen cabinets are another example. They're not discounted and they're selective about their dealers, pricing and service levels and while a bunch of cabinet manufacturers have gone out of business, they're still here and still making money.

I just hate to see companies making the same mistakes over and over.

Terry

[PhilEllis]

Historically, manufacturers that have maintained pricing and properly managed their dealer network have done much better (profit and survivability) than those that didn't.

Terry, I agree completely with you on this issue, with the exception of a couple of facts.

The company in question has apparently been unable to stem the flow of products to a major "unauthorized" distribution source, so consumers have easy access to a source at a MUCH LOWER price than the authorized sources authorized by the company. In addition, they have no control (for legal reasons) on the online distribution of the equipment by sources in Europe, again exposing U.S customers to price discounted outside of what was intended by the model.

There is another gigantic factor. The examples you quoted are examples where companies were charging higher prices for a uniquely different product from the market segment. That does not appear to the the case with scuba diving equipment. Consumers, in the aggregate, seem to feel that a top of the line regulator from one brand is just as good as another. This makes it more difficult for a dealer of the brand that is maintaining a price much higher than the "prevailing" market.

Now, if this WORKS for a particular dive shop in a particular place, I say good job. Unfortunately, it is not working for a very large number of retailers.

Don't get me wrong....I KNOW that throat-cutting happens with abandon in the scuba market. That is largely because there is not enough demand to support the current supply, and the guys who run the larger, more expensive operations struggle to increase the slice of a rapidly decreasing pie size.

Phil Ellis
Discount Scuba Gear at DiveSports.com - Buy Scuba Diving Equipment & Snorkeling Equipment (http://www.divesports.com)

[Web Monkey]

Terry, I agree completely with you on this issue, with the exception of a couple of facts.

The company in question has apparently been unable to stem the flow of products to a major "unauthorized" distribution source, so consumers have easy access to a source at a MUCH LOWER price than the authorized sources authorized by the company.


If they can't maintain their distribution and dealer network without prostituting themselves, they're doomed.

I can name a bunch of manufacturers that did that too.

Terry

[fireflock]

You guys can rag on AL all you want, but in the end, their online policy protects their dealers by not undercutting them. Dealers that can sell a product, make a profit and stay in business, lets the manufacturer also make a profit and stay in business.


Companies that worry about protecting their dealers end up with a bunch of dealers.

Companies that worry about offering something great to their customers end up with all the customers.

What does this offer the actual customer? Not much, as I see it.

Suppliers don't keep dealers in business. Customers do.

[mike_s]

well......

DEMA has come and gone, and Aqualung "online sales" has generated very few responses in this thread....

Ironic? Weird?

or is it that people just don't give a crap if they are sold online ?

[mdb]

Perhaps it is just that divers do not want to pay the full list price-MSRP-plus freight. Price does matter and this model does not allow for that.

[mike_s]

very true MDB.... I mean that sales model is "not exactly kicking ass" for another company that is doing MSRP online sales. (Atomic).

[Valhalla]

well......

DEMA has come and gone, and Aqualung "online sales" has generated very few responses in this thread....

Ironic? Weird?

or is it that people just don't give a crap if they are sold online ?

Aqualung has made their products availiable on-line at great discount (LP & the like) for quite sometime. The only difference, if any, is the warranties...

[scubafanatic]

well......

DEMA has come and gone, and Aqualung "online sales" has generated very few responses in this thread....

Ironic? Weird?

or is it that people just don't give a crap if they are sold online ?

so basically, in exchange for paying full MSRP directly from Aqualung, you don't actually have to get off your butt and visit a local dealer to buy product but can choose to have it shipped directly to the consumer ? ...yeppers, better mark me down as 'don't give a crap'!:shakehead:

[mike_s]

Actually, seeing how some of the Aqualung dealers are complete ********, I see this as a good thing for the consumer because they don't have to deal with them....


but then again, I can "click and add to cart" at Leisure Pro for years and it's cheaper and still don't have to deal with a local dealer that is out of stock on an item. :thumb: