PADI DM Standards for 20 Skills

[Incubus34]

I was interested in Critical Attributes to the 20 Basic Scuba Skills, but I worded it poorly... I thought perhaps these were somewhere located in the digital version of the manual and could be useful to a DM candidate.

What do you guys think?

[Peter Guy]

I'm sorry, but I don't understand your question. What do you want "us" to write?

[boulderjohn]

I was hoping someone with access to the OWSI manual could complete the Evaluative Criteria in the PADI “Divemaster Course Instructor Guide” from the PADI Instructor Manual for DM candidate reference purposes... for each of the 20 basic scuba skills.



I am not sure what it is you are looking for and why. Could you explain more?

EDIT: Sorry for repeating Peter's question--he posted whilst I was otherwise engaged.

[TMHeimer]

I'm not sure either, but I think you mean something like this-- It would be a good idea to have a list of the 20 skills including the critical steps in exact order for doing each skill. Ei.: point to this, count "3" when you do that, etc. We all (should) know how to do the skills from OW class, but if there was a detailed official PADI list of the steps, it would save the instructor from having to point out all the details and stuff we didn't do as we go. I'm doing well with most of the skills, but find that after a pool session I try to remember and write down the steps I missed so I can get it perfect. These details are likely spelled out in the Instr. Manual, no?

[boulderjohn]

I'm not sure either, but I think you mean something like this-- It would be a good idea to have a list of the 20 skills including the critical steps in exact order for doing each skill. Ei.: point to this, count "3" when you do that, etc. We all (should) know how to do the skills from OW class, but if there was a detailed official PADI list of the steps, it would save the instructor from having to point out all the details and stuff we didn't do as we go. I'm doing well with most of the skills, but find that after a pool session I try to remember and write down the steps I missed so I can get it perfect. These details are likely spelled out in the Instr. Manual, no?

A couple of points:

The DM section of the Instructor Handbook recommends that DM candidates have their own copy of the handbook. I did not have my own when I was a DMC, but the shop gave me access to one. Knowing how to find things in the handbook is a requirement for the course, so you will need to have access to it.

The instructor in charge of my class gave us a bulleted list of the key skills. He and some other course directors had created it. It was not found per se in the handbook.

The descriptions are not provided in a nice, neat special section as you might think. It would take someone an extremely long time to get it all together. If that is what is being asked, then you are asking someone to do hours of work to spare you the time of looking them up in the book yourself.

Finally,...

The instructor teaching your course should be providing you with access to this information. If you are taking the course, you are paying a huge chunk of change to get this information. I suggest that you contact that instructor to get your money's worth.

[Incubus34]

I'm sorry, but I don't understand your question. What do you want "us" to write?

LOL... I was thinking more along the lines of copy/paste

[boulderjohn]

LOL... I was thinking more along the lines of copy/paste

It is scattered all over the place--we would be copy/pasting a hundred pages or so.

[AzAtty]

There's a thread kicking around the Going Pro forum called something like "the 20 skills broken down." I don't recall how many skills are spelled out in that thread, but it might be a good starting point.

[TMHeimer]

I printed that post breaking down the skills. Good info. there, but not exactly what I was talking about. I'm not avoiding looking up stuff in the Instructor's Manual (which I heard is soon to be revised/condensed?), but a way to maybe streamline the DM course some. I don't think it would take hours of time for PADI to assign say one of it's top Instructors to list the steps. Every Instructor that I know (8) obviously knows the skills inside and out. A simple say, 2 page typed list stating exactly the order of what to do to demonstrate each skill exactly right may take someone a couple hours to type up. For example: Snorkle-Reg. exchange: 1. Point to snorkle 2. take a breath 3. remove snorkle and point to exhaling of bubbles 4, etc. Knowing these exact steps before the first pool session would probably elliminate that session. We could start right in on perfecting the skills, doing them slowly, etc. All 4 of us needed to be told/shown these steps for each skill, which is something we could have already studied on paper at home. I would imagine that this is usually the case in most DM classes, unless a candidate bought the manual or came into the shop before time and looked up all these steps (as stated, spread all over the Manual). Heck, any DM should be able to make up this list.

[Divedoggie]

If you want to observe the skills, you might watch the Open Water DVD. The Confined Water Portion of the video clearly demonstrates the skills.

[boulderjohn]

As I said, the instructor who taught my class gave me such a list. I do not believe, however, that PADI could really do this for everyone.

When you read the PADI descriptions for the skills, you will see that they highlight some key concepts, but they are not nearly as prescriptive as you are looking for. There is a reason for this.

Many of the skills can be done acceptably in more than one way.

A good example is mask clearing. The general principles are the same, but different people do it slightly differently. Securing an alternate air source is another example where you will find individual differences in approach.

If you were to learn how to do these skills from me, you would learn to do a number of items very differently, I would suspect, from the way you would learn it from your instructor. For example, I do all the CW1 skills with the divers neutrally buoyant and in a near fin-pivot position rather than anchored firmly to the bottom on their knees. I find that this is a much better way to do the skills, but I am in the minority on this. The way I do it is within PADI standards, but it is not the way it is commonly done.

If you look at the thread mentioned earlier on the 20 skills broken down, you will see that the thread ended in disharmony because people would not agree on how some skills are done. You will see my approach to CW1 described, for example.

You will need to do these skills the way your instructor wants you to do them. When assisting instructors, you will need to do them the way the instructor with whom you are working does them. When I was a DM and later an AI, I had to vary the way I did things, depending upon whom I was assisting. Alternate air exercises were always an adventure for me, since I had to assist in the actual demonstration and I was often unsure as the demonstration began which precise sequence of steps would be used by the particular instructor I was assisting.

Later, if you become an instructor, your own approach to different skills will evolve.

[TMHeimer]

John, Yes, I agree with everything you say. I was thinking about instructors doing things a bit differently from each other as well, and have noticed this occurring. I think your instructor had a very good idea to give you his own list of how he wanted the skills done. I'm not sure that it would be a bad idea for PADI to have it's own official list, though. Either way, a list beforehand would help a guy like me.

[boulderjohn]

I'm not sure that it would be a bad idea for PADI to have it's own official list, though. Either way, a list beforehand would help a guy like me.

I think the person you need to talk to is your instructor. Your desire to practice these skills ahead of time is laudable, and your instructor should help you make this happen.

I will tell you that the list I spoke of did not come to us immediately. We started off being asked to demo the skills with no introduction of any kind to any of them. Those of us in the class had not seen an OW class in many years and could not remember what they were supposed to look like in demonstration mode. In my case, I had had a very poor OW class at a resort. My entire original CW experience took a couple of hours in a pool 5 feet deep. I had never seen many of these skills performed, let alone done them myself. I had pretty good control of my buoyancy at that point in my diving career, but I had no idea what he wanted me to do when he asked me to demonstrate a hover.

It did not take long for the instructor to realize this was not working, so we suddenly had a list, and each of the skills was demonstrated for us before we were asked to do them. After that, I spent some quality pool hours practicing.

[knotical]

When I was a DMC, my instructor explained what critical attributes were, gave a few examples, and then turned us loose to practice our own demonstrations, emphasizing critical attributes. I did sit down and write a list, but long since threw it out.

Any standardized list an agency might come up with would stifle those who perform the skills differently. The importance is that the skill objective is accomplished successfully and safely. In the case of DM demonstrations, also slowly, visibly, and emphasizing those critical attributes that some folks find elusive. The particular technique or style should be of lesser importance.

I believe the exercise of determining what I thought were critical attributes was valuable.

[Incubus34]

Since I took OW in 1986, and I haven't seen the fin pivot since, I thought some up-to-date information on how each drill is performed could be helpful... but I guess I'll just wait until the course to begin mastering the drills.

Seems sillly, but if PADI doesn't want DM candidates and future instructors to see the expectations then so be it...

The individual skills aren't the issue, but the method for completing the drills to demonstration quality without the knowledge of what "demonstration quality" means to each step in the drill seems important to this educator.

[Jang]

I had the same type of question when completing my skills circuit. What I've learned is a) every instructor completes the skills differently and b) the instructor is suppose to demonstrate the skills how he completes them in your first session of the skills circuit (we had one dry land session and another in the pool).

PM me if you want my notes. I took the 20 skills (or however many there were) breakdown on SB, added the other skills and my own observations from my instructor. I passed this to the rest of my DM class as a study guide and encouraged them to modify to their own purposes. I'm reluctant to post the skills as I've seen how trashed the first poster was on his 20 skills breakdown. Although, it would be nice to see other member's perspective.

[boulderjohn]

Seems sillly, but if PADI doesn't want DM candidates and future instructors to see the expectations then so be it...



OK, I hate to sound rude, but have you been reading all the other posts in this thread carefully? I am going to repeat a few things that have already been said several times each.

1. To the degree that PADI wants to spell out the procedures, these procedures are in the handbook. They are not in a nice and tidy list that can be easily reproduced, but they are there

2. PADI wants all DM candidates to have access to the handbook so that they can see it for themselves. You should therefore be able to see these procedures for yourself.

3. PADI has all the procedures demonstrated on a video and suggests all DM candidates view the video. You should have access to that video so that you can see them for yourself.

4. PADI is not 100% prescriptive in how things are done because many tings can be done acceptably in several ways. Your DM class instructor should be giving you those specifics.

5. The instructor of your DM class is supposed to be helping you with all of this.


If that is not enough for you, exactly what is it that you want?

[Hawkwood]

I had the same type of question when completing my skills circuit. What I've learned is a) every instructor completes the skills differently and b) the instructor is suppose to demonstrate the skills how he completes them in your first session of the skills circuit (we had one dry land session and another in the pool).

PM me if you want my notes. I took the 20 skills (or however many there were) breakdown on SB, added the other skills and my own observations from my instructor. I passed this to the rest of my DM class as a study guide and encouraged them to modify to their own purposes. I'm reluctant to post the skills as I've seen how trashed the first poster was on his 20 skills breakdown. Although, it would be nice to see other member's perspective.

Jang,

Don't forget, you and I have/had the benefit of working with a number of instructors, not just our DMC instructor. Observing how they demo the skills allows you figure out which are the critical attributes and how best for you to demo the skills.

[Jang]

Thanks Bill, I agree 100%. I have seen lots during my evals from the limited number of classes I've DMC'd (no where near the number you have done). It's precisely why I have not posted my notes as they are based on what my current/your previous DM instructor, but are merely a guideline going forward. I have seen variation to many of the skills and the bottom line is the that the skill is performed correctly, clearly and safely.

Kevin

[Incubus34]

OK, I hate to sound rude

No, actually you're quite good at it... but I'll back off the subject so you don't blow a gasket. :mooner: