Sherwood Equipment... how??!?

[Born2Dive]

Hi all,
I'm currently hunting for my first set of regulator and BC. After many hours of research, i have narrowed it down to a few, with the Sherwood Oasis and Avid Bc. I do not see much said about these two pieces of equipment though, about actual real life usage, not what the reviewers say.

So I would like to hear experiences with these two sherwood equipment.

Another regulator system that interests me and fits into my budget is the SP MK2/R380. Any input if anyone has tried the oasis and R380 system would be very appreciated.

I have also heard the servicing for SP regs is pretty costly and thus have put me slightly off. *sigh* Choices... choices... choices.

btw; I'm a rec diver that is doing a dive leader course to recoup some cash back in the future to support my narcotic hobby.:thumb:

Thanks thanks thanks in advance for any opinions.:drown:

[Dryglove]

Born2Dive once bubbled...
I have also heard the servicing for SP regs is pretty costly and thus have put me slightly off. *sigh* Choices... choices... choices.

btw; I'm a rec diver that is doing a dive leader course to recoup some cash back in the future to support my narcotic hobby.


My scubapro regs usually cost the same or cheaper than my apeks regs. I think it mostly depends on the dive shop and his mood at time of servicing...lol.

Most guys i know involved in dive leadership programs spend way more than they make. They do get some decent discounts on gear and free air fills but spend way more on the course, gas and insurance to make it worth while for making money. They do it for the love of the sport.:D Personally i dont see how one could love kneeling on the bottom of a pool or the ocean performing skills but hey they love it. :confused:

[ZoCrowes255]

Sherwood is pretty inconsistent in regulator quality. You will get one that will breathe excellent at almost any depth and then you will get another reg that is the same model that makes it seem like you are sucking a beach ball through a garden straw. The upside to them is the fact that they are EXTREMELY durable. Truly a workhorse reg.

The Avid BC is a very nice peice of equipment. Lots of nice little features and the 1000 Denir Nylon is very durable. However it is sized a little oddly. The sizes to run a bit smaller than most of other BC brands.

I have used both systems that you are mentioned and I prefer the Scubapro because the quality is more consistent. The Mk2 is one of the oldest tried and true designs in the industry and you can't go wrong with it. If you are going to buy the reg off the net (which I don't like but there is nothing I can do about it) then service of the Scubapro will be much more expensive than a Sherwood reg. Sherwood parts kits are $5-$8 per stage while Scubapro's are almost double that. If you buy from an actual dive store the parts for the Scubapro are covered by the lifetime warranty.

In the end: I prefer the Scubapro. However if you are that concerned about the cost of service then go with the Sherwood. It's not a BAD regulator it's just not a great one


Born2Dive once bubbled...
Hi all,
I'm currently hunting for my first set of regulator and BC. After many hours of research, i have narrowed it down to a few, with the Sherwood Oasis and Avid Bc. I do not see much said about these two pieces of equipment though, about actual real life usage, not what the reviewers say.

So I would like to hear experiences with these two sherwood equipment.

Another regulator system that interests me and fits into my budget is the SP MK2/R380. Any input if anyone has tried the oasis and R380 system would be very appreciated.

I have also heard the servicing for SP regs is pretty costly and thus have put me slightly off. *sigh* Choices... choices... choices.

btw; I'm a rec diver that is doing a dive leader course to recoup some cash back in the future to support my narcotic hobby.:thumb:

Thanks thanks thanks in advance for any opinions.:drown:

[ZoCrowes255]

lal7176 once bubbled...


Personally i dont see how one could love kneeling on the bottom of a pool or the ocean performing skills but hey they love it. :confused:

Because you get to show people how cool it is to be able to breathe underwater :D (and you get to look cool while doing it)

Plus the sense of satisfaction you get from knowing you did a job well done

[resqdivers]

I dive a Blizzard (Sameas the Oasis, just different faceplates)from Sherwood, along with an AGA mask, it is the best breathing reg I have ever dove. It has to be set up correctly though. Something you will not get buying online. This is done somewhat on purpose I believe, so the bottom feeders at leisure pro don't get all the biz. I haven't dove the Avid so I couldn't tell you about that, I dive the Genesis ReCon and really do like it alot...I know it isn't the BPW of HOG lore, but, I don't give a crap what they dive, I use what is best for my conditions, (rescue-recovery).

[Born2Dive]

lal7176 once bubbled...

Most guys i know involved in dive leadership programs spend way more than they make. They do get some decent discounts on gear and free air fills but spend way more on the course, gas and insurance to make it worth while for making money. They do it for the love of the sport.:D Personally i dont see how one could love kneeling on the bottom of a pool or the ocean performing skills but hey they love it. :confused:

yeah yeah i know i know,... at least i can try to recover a bit back. Anyway i believe any instructor who puts himself into the ITC has gotta really love diving if you know what i mean.:rolleyes:

Cheers

[Born2Dive]

ZoCrowes255 once bubbled...
Sherwood is pretty inconsistent in regulator quality. You will get one that will breathe excellent at almost any depth and then you will get another reg that is the same model that makes it seem like you are sucking a beach ball through a garden straw. The upside to them is the fact that they are EXTREMELY durable. Truly a workhorse reg.

I have used both systems that you are mentioned and I prefer the Scubapro because the quality is more consistent. The Mk2 is one of the oldest tried and true designs in the industry and you can't go wrong with it. If you are going to buy the reg off the net (which I don't like but there is nothing I can do about it)...

Ok... thanks about the input, but i have a couple of questions,
:confused:
1) when you talk about inconsistancies, do you mean that the setup changes after diving a while with the reg, or the inconsistancy of two different new products??

2)I'm not sure if i should invest slightly more for a balanced piston first stage(MK25/R380). Would it be worth the investment compared to say the MK2/R380?? I'm assuming that you have tried the Mk25 too...

yup,... thats abt it. Oh yah i do not intent to get the equipment over the net, as i can just go down to a dealer that is pretty close to where i live.
Thanks again for your input.
Cheers.:boozer:

[Born2Dive]

resqdivers once bubbled...
I dive a Blizzard (Sameas the Oasis, just different faceplates)from Sherwood, along with an AGA mask, it is the best breathing reg I have ever dove. It has to be set up correctly though. Something you will not get buying online.

Hi, a question, what do u mean by correctly setup? Does it mean trying it on in the shop and fine tuning it to flow preference or something even more technical than that?? Thanks.

btw, i'm not getting any gear online.

Cheers.:boozer:

[ZoCrowes255]

Born2Dive once bubbled...

Ok... thanks about the input, but i have a couple of questions,
:confused:
1) when you talk about inconsistancies, do you mean that the setup changes after diving a while with the reg, or the inconsistancy of two different new products??

2)I'm not sure if i should invest slightly more for a balanced piston first stage(MK25/R380). Would it be worth the investment compared to say the MK2/R380?? I'm assuming that you have tried the Mk25 too...

yup,... thats abt it. Oh yah i do not intent to get the equipment over the net, as i can just go down to a dealer that is pretty close to where i live.
Thanks again for your input.
Cheers.:boozer:

The difference between two new products. You could have two Maximus regs straight out of the box and the difference in between them (even after being properly setup) is like night and day. One guy I know has a Maximus that is probably one of the best breathing regs I have ever used. My Maximus (backup) is a complete POS. It's collecting dust along with a Mares I took on a trade-in.

If you are looking to save a bit of cash I would look into investing in the Mk16 as opposed to the Mk25. The Mk 16 is balanced diaphragm first stage. On an unbalanced first as the tank pressure drops and ambient pressure increases it becomes harder to breathe. On a balanced first stage you don't have to worry about that. A diaphragm first stage is completely sealed by a diaphragm which compensates for ambient pressure. A piston first stage allows water into the pressure chamber to compensate for ambient pressure. The piston first stages have different flowrates HOWEVER you would be hard pressed to tell the difference.

I dive a MK25/S600 and I am very very pleased with it. I had one grow legs and walk out of the storage room where I work so I immediatly bought another one.

If you are interested in a balanced secondstage as well and are not looking to bust your pocketbook I highly recomend the MK16/S550. It's the same guts as the more expensive G250 and S600 second stages at a fraction of the price. It only lacks the second stage adjustment.

[WVMike]

I have a MK2 and have used MK25. The reason I bought MK2 was price. MY two sons dive and we need two or three of everything.

The MK2 works well but, the hose configuration makes it awkard to pack and travel with, the hoses come off at about 120 degree angles, so it takes up allot of space. The MK25 has HP and LP seperate and the first stage rotates so it is more compact.

The second stage on MK2 has a min/max valve which can be a pain. If it is in max on the surface it will freeflow if you purge it or when you first enter water. If you forget to set it to max before you descend then it is hard to breath. You are quickly reaching for it. I have also had mine slip back towards min while under water and had to fool with it.

The MK25 second stage does not have this problem and has an adjustment knob for breathing.

I wish I had got the MK25, next reg will be.

[ZoCrowes255]

WVMike once bubbled...

The second stage on MK2 has a min/max valve which can be a pain. If it is in max on the surface it will freeflow if you purge it or when you first enter water. If you forget to set it to max before you descend then it is hard to breath. You are quickly reaching for it. I have also had mine slip back towards min while under water and had to fool with it.



That valve is known as a venturi assist valve (Scubapro calls it VIVA.) It's actually a very nice feature once you know how to use it properly. If the regulator freeflows at the surface while the valve is set to max then the regulator is properly tuned. This is a good thing LOL

What it does is as the pressure drops in the second stage on an inhalation the force of that inhalation gives the diaphragm within the second stage a little extra "push." If it's tuned properly then the reg will slightly freeflow when the valve is open. Closing the valve prevents this. It's like a dive/pre-dive switch that you see on the old D series regs.

[shrwdtech]

resqdivers once bubbled...
I dive a Blizzard (Sameas the Oasis, just different faceplates)from Sherwood, along with an AGA mask, it is the best breathing reg I have ever dove. It has to be set up correctly though. Something you will not get buying online. This is done somewhat on purpose I believe, so the bottom feeders at leisure pro don't get all the biz. I haven't dove the Avid so I couldn't tell you about that, I dive the Genesis ReCon and really do like it alot...I know it isn't the BPW of HOG lore, but, I don't give a crap what they dive, I use what is best for my conditions, (rescue-recovery).

It has to be set up properly? What do you mean? I've sold many, many Sherwood Regs over the years and have never had to 'set up' anything more than any other regulator. Position the octo, gauges, and lpi hose where it belongs, test the reg, and send the happy customer diving.

On another note, as a tech, I LOVE to see these come through the door for service. As long as they are cared for correctly, I can service these in about 1/2 the time I do other manufacturers regs, and there are so many less parts to change! A tech's dream!

[shrwdtech]

ZoCrowes255 once bubbled...


The difference between two new products. You could have two Maximus regs straight out of the box and the difference in between them (even after being properly setup) is like night and day. One guy I know has a Maximus that is probably one of the best breathing regs I have ever used. My Maximus (backup) is a complete POS. It's collecting dust along with a Mares I took on a trade-in.

If you are looking to save a bit of cash I would look into investing in the Mk16 as opposed to the Mk25. The Mk 16 is balanced diaphragm first stage. On an unbalanced first as the tank pressure drops and ambient pressure increases it becomes harder to breathe. On a balanced first stage you don't have to worry about that. A diaphragm first stage is completely sealed by a diaphragm which compensates for ambient pressure. A piston first stage allows water into the pressure chamber to compensate for ambient pressure. The piston first stages have different flowrates HOWEVER you would be hard pressed to tell the difference.

I dive a MK25/S600 and I am very very pleased with it. I had one grow legs and walk out of the storage room where I work so I immediatly bought another one.

If you are interested in a balanced secondstage as well and are not looking to bust your pocketbook I highly recomend the MK16/S550. It's the same guts as the more expensive G250 and S600 second stages at a fraction of the price. It only lacks the second stage adjustment.


In 23 years of working dive shops(doesn't make me an expert), I've found your comments to be true of every single manufacturer on the market, bar none. I've not, as a rule, ever noticed any manufacturer's regs that "you could have two regs straight out of the box and the difference in between them (even after being properly setup) is like night and day. But, I've found from time to time every single manufacturer's regs to be a bit out of tune or to need a little tweeking. Not just one.

[Elvis Maximus]

I bought an Avid BC last year and am quite happy with it. There are two downsides: it is tough to put weight into the BC with the rig on, so you have to gear up with the weight already in the BC, which will not make your buddy very happy. Also, if you are diving in cold salt water, you will likely need an additional weight belt as the BC will not fit enough weight on its own.

I recommend the Akona accessory kit, with retractors, a knife and retractor-mounted light, which is quite affordable and fits the BC perfectly.

[ZoCrowes255]

shrwdtech once bubbled...



In 23 years of working dive shops(doesn't make me an expert), I've found your comments to be true of every single manufacturer on the market, bar none. I've not, as a rule, ever noticed any manufacturer's regs that "you could have two regs straight out of the box and the difference in between them (even after being properly setup) is like night and day. But, I've found from time to time every single manufacturer's regs to be a bit out of tune or to need a little tweeking. Not just one.

Quality control problems is as common as it is in the scuba industry as it is among any speciality industry however Sherwood seems to have a bigger problem with quality consistency than most.

We are a Sherwood dealer (a big one too) and much of the equipment we have in rental is Sherwood so I see some of it's shortcomings. It's not a lot but it is enough for me to take notice.

I have seen a difference in night and day. I was working with a Maximus today and it breathed pretty good. However if I was to set it side by side with one of our instructor's it would be a HUGE difference. His is a rare one that breathes GREAT.

This is no knock on Sherwood. They make an excellent BC in the AVID and the Wisdom computer is probably one of the best in the industry (in terms of AI) at the moment.

[shrwdtech]

Didn't take it as a knock on Sherwood at all. Just a good discussion with different views based on different experiences.

We are simply proving that 2 people within the scuba industry can indeed disagree a bit without it turning into a blown out, major league flaming contest. *LOL*

From my experiences, I've not seen any difference with Sherwood's quality control issues than I have with anybody else. While not an expert on everybody, admittadly, I have had the occasion to either work for or own a shop that was a dealer of many manufacturers.

My current job makes me a bit biased on the subject, but in the long run, I've not seen any more abnormalities in the Sherwood line than in any other line I'd dealt with.

I can tell you that in my day to day workings, I don't get but 1 call in a month's time that has anything to do with problems with a Sherwood Reg that is still under warranty. And of the ones I do get, 90% of those are fixed by correcting something the repair technician has done backwards.

have a great day!

[shrwdtech]

Didn't take it as a knock on Sherwood at all. Just a good discussion with different views based on different experiences.

We are simply proving that 2 people within the scuba industry can indeed disagree a bit without it turning into a blown out, major lead flaming contest. *LOL*

From my experiences, I've not seen any difference with Sherwood's quality control issues than I have with anybody else. While not an expert on everybody, admittadly, I have had the occasion to either work for or own a shop that was a dealer of many manufacturers.

My current job makes me a bit biased on the subject, but in the long run, I've not seen any more abnormalities in the Sherwood line than in any other line I'd dealt with.

I can tell you that in my day to day workings, I don't get but 1 call in a month's time that has anything to do with problems with a Sherwood Reg that is still under warranty. And of the ones I do get, 90% of those are fixed by correcting something the repair technician has done backwards.

have a great day!

[WVMike]

ZoCrowes255 once bubbled...


That valve is known as a venturi assist valve (Scubapro calls it VIVA.) It's actually a very nice feature once you know how to use it properly.

The best I can figure is you leave it on min at the surface and switch it to max when ready to descend. Is there anything else to using it properly?

[ZoCrowes255]

WVMike once bubbled...


The best I can figure is you leave it on min at the surface and switch it to max when ready to descend. Is there anything else to using it properly?

I will have to take a closer look at the design of the flap but on a well tuned reg you should not have to open the valve all the way. Usually about halfway or so will do it. I know this is true for Oceanic but I can't think if it is for Scubapro off the top of my head.

[ZoCrowes255]

Two people on here who have different points of view not getting in a flame war? THIS MUST BE A FIRST LOL ;) We are the pros we are supposed to be courteous (for the most part at least.)

The Sherwood is a pretty good reg however, for the price, you can get a much better reg. Our shop does a pretty good discount on their products so it's cheaper than most however if I went to a place that charged straight retail on a Maximus and Scubapro MK25/S600 I would go with the less expensive and higher performing Scubapro. I am a little biased towards Scubapro though I will be the first to admit that.

The instructor who signed every single one of my C-Cards up until leadership and taught me almost everything I know swore by Sherwood. She said that if they are good enough for the medical industry they are good enough for her.


To the original poster: Try before you buy something or get a damn good garuntee that you can return it if you dont like it.

shrwdtech once bubbled...
Didn't take it as a knock on Sherwood at all. Just a good discussion with different views based on different experiences.

We are simply proving that 2 people within the scuba industry can indeed disagree a bit without it turning into a blown out, major league flaming contest. *LOL*

From my experiences, I've not seen any difference with Sherwood's quality control issues than I have with anybody else. While not an expert on everybody, admittadly, I have had the occasion to either work for or own a shop that was a dealer of many manufacturers.

My current job makes me a bit biased on the subject, but in the long run, I've not seen any more abnormalities in the Sherwood line than in any other line I'd dealt with.

I can tell you that in my day to day workings, I don't get but 1 call in a month's time that has anything to do with problems with a Sherwood Reg that is still under warranty. And of the ones I do get, 90% of those are fixed by correcting something the repair technician has done backwards.

have a great day!

[Ron Brandt]

I took a guy to the lake last weekend to try an Avid. First time I have seen this BC.

Looked great,fitted very well and were able to use lots of weight for his drysuit.

I might consider one myself to teach in the pool with.

As for Sherwood regs...The Blizzard was my first reg 23 years ago.
Had a student use just last week !!! I cannot comment on the other models as I use Oceanic Regs,computers exclusively as I own 6 of them

Ron

[shrwdtech]

I don't have to get into a flame war. Don't need to make anybody feel or look bad to make me feel like I am right.

I KNOW I'm right.

KIDDING!!!!!

The best piece of advice I saw up there was go out and try a few out!

Good Luck!

[Born2Dive]

Hi ppl,
Thanks for all your opinions. I've been walking around and have tried out the Avid BC and the different regs. (followed the sound advice) ;) Just to inform what i gotton.

I find that the flowrate of the oasis reg and MK2/R380 were pretty much the same and not much of a difference. This being done on a 300-400 psi tank. I find the Mk25 a bit out of my price range thus didn't consider it. Also in my area, SP regs are more pricey then the Sherwood regs, thats even after pleading with the LDS owner. About S$100+ more. With all this in consideration, i took the Sherwd oasis reg. Hope it was a right investment. (Anyway i tested it b4 buying due to the few QA comments made).

I also gotton the Avid cause it fits best. :)

Going to test them all out this weekend hopefully it all works fine and nothing 'explode' or give way. *LOL*:out:


Cheers. :boozer:

[beaker]

I see you already got the Avid, nice choice! I picked mine up a couple of years ago as my first BC, and haven't had any problems with it. I know they've changed the manor in which they attached the weight pouches from all Velcro to a clip. I haven't had much of a problem with the pouches.

I dive mainly cold water with a 22# weight belt, and then the rest (6#) goes into the two pouches. For me, I find this easy to deal with, as the weight belt isn't too heavy to be extremely cumbersom to deal with, and I don't overload the BC & make it hard to manage either.

When I swap over to a drysuit, I end up 6-8# heavier, and that gets put in the BC. Just with that much more weight in it, I'd hate to see what its like with my full 28# in it.... Too much to have to lug around / put on at one time.

[Titletowndiver]

I also gotton the Avid cause it fits best.

Based on that I'd say you made the right choice.

[scubasteve27]

I own and have used my Avid BC for 2 years now--I did alot of research and shopping around and am happy I chose the Avid. has been reliable and the trim and other features are what I had in mind.The only thing I don't care for is the right shoulder pull dump--it has a black knob that kind of blends in with your hoses and the BC itself. I just had it replaced with a grey one so it's easier to see and locate,other than that I dont think you can beat it for the money$$$$.Hope this helps.


ASTA---


SCUBA STEVE:mean: :mean:

[shrwdtech]

Sounds like you did your research well! You couldn't have gone wrong either way.

Enjoy your new toys and remember...

Keep the dust cap on your first stage when you rinse it, don't push the purge when you wash the 2nd stage, and don't forget to rinse the inside of your bcd out!

*LOL*

Make the job of guys like me easier and your toys will last forever!

[resqdivers]

what I was referring to about being set up goes beyond the Intermediate Pressure. There is an adjustment inside of the reg that when properly adjusted...('bout a 1/4 turn or less past freeflow) you should have a good set up. Your Ip set-up can be changed from(reg tech job) cold water to warm water...like I said in my original post, the blizzard and oasis is exactly the same. You just set the IP's differently depending on the water temp you will be in! I will happily agree that all manufactures have issues with quality control, sherwood and genesis included. Again, if your reg isn't set up right, it isn't going to behave. Most all sherwoods ned to be tweaked a little out of the box. Again, I think that this is ploy to mess with LP. But lets not get that war going...:D

Good luck with whatever you get, but I would nudgeyou toward the oasis or blizzard...buth should be available (1st stage & 2nd stage only) for below $400.00.

Oh yea, it kinda sounds like you might be somewhat new to diving, if you are, don't go by the reviews in Rodales Scuba Diving Magazine...if you notice, the people that get the highest marks in there are the ones whom advertise more...

[shrwdtech]

The Oasis and the Blizzard may LOOK exactly the same, but they are not.

There are pieces in the Blizzard 2nd stage that are different than the Oasis.

In older models such as the Oasis II and the comparable Blizzard there are even more differences. But that really doesn't pertain to this discussion.

As for any tweaking to the reg, that is either a tech trying to look good to the customer or one who's not real sure what he's doing. Not trying to make them look bad or anything, or trying to start a bunch of flames back and forth, just speaking from the manufacturer's end of things.

As far as adjusting the IP based upon where you are diving. I can tell you that I personally have never touched the IP on my reg based on where I'm going. I've had it in the water in Puget Sound, and off the mouth of Campbell River, BC. in the Caribbean and Mexico as well as under the ice in the midwest. I took it right off the same shelf that everybody else's reg comes off of (or at least everybody in about 66% of the World), added my octo and computer and honestly, haven't even serviced it yet, so it's never been open.

I can also tell you that there are no official or recommended changes to IP for the Blizzard based on water temp. It should always be set at 140psi +/- 5psi.

Anyway... have a great day everybody!

[kgdiver]

Sherwood regs have a reputation for being very tough regs. I use a magnum as my octo and am very happy with it.

I did decide to go with the SP MK 25 first stage though with a S600 second. I have been told it is a better design and is better for deeper dives that I do.

Also Sherwood has had some quality control issues. Quite a few of thier products have been recalled. Still they were my second choice for regs at the time I bought mine. I now would look at the SP MK 25 still and Apex.

[shrwdtech]

What is funny is the parts we've had 'Recalls' on are very common parts not actually manufactured by Sherwood, with the exception of the Voluntary Recall on the Maximus 2nd stages.

The BCD recall was a part made by a 3rd party, for the largest manufacturer of BCD's in the world at that time. It was on several manufacturer's bcds. Sherwood was the only one to be public about it needing to be changed. The other users of this part just swapped it out as a problem arose.

Those are the only 2 true "recalls" I can account for in the Sherwood line.

As for a quality control issue, I guess you'd have to be here day in and day out to see my job and learn that there really isn't any QC issue with Sherwood.

Another item you might not be aware of is that EVERY manufacturer has had recalls on thier gear. Some have been due to the exreme possibility of catastrophic failure (their words, not mine). The big thing is we take care of it (the manufacturers) as soon as we learn there is a problem.