ottawa tech training ??

[DS1]

does anyone have any recomendation for a good place to get some good technical instructors??

Thanks

[Jimmy B]

Why not go to Kingston and get a hold of Dan Mackay over at NTD, www.northerntechdiver.com Dan teaches for GUE. Have a look at www.gue.com for course standards. Dan's courses are tough and fair and space is limited though but well worth it.

JB

[DivingGal]

in Ottawa
- Dolphinos (http://www.dolphinos.com) offer TDI courses

just down the road
- Northern Tech Divers (http://www.northerntechdiver.com) in Kingston
- Dive Tech Training (http://http://www.divetech.ca/) in Mallorytown

[Kaos]

Not only does Dolphinos (www.dolphinos.com) offer tech training, they're also the only place I can think of in Easter Canada that do free diving on a serious basis.

[Bubble Boy]

You are going to have to travel to do your dives anyways so don't let the geography be your deciding factor.

Do some research on the instructors and their teaching styles. Find the right match for yourself. Everyone learns differently. Some instructros travel arround for teaching as well.
Meet with the instructors and make sure that they think you are ready as well. As posted above Dan at Northern Tech comes highly reccomended as does some of the instructors at Dolphinos. I have seen some of Steve Lewis' stundents and was impressed with their skills as well and I think he has been teaching out of Mallorytown and Burton's in Ottawa (but that could have been a one time thing). Norm Hughes (Scuba Repair Centre) is another technical instructor in the Ottawa area. There is also Mike Fowler out of ABUCS Scuba in Brockville. There are many more but you can't go wrong with any of the above.

[Doppler]

Bubble Boy once bubbled...
You are going to have to travel to do your dives anyways so don't let the geography be your deciding factor.

... I have seen some of Steve Lewis' stundents and was impressed with their skills as well and I think he has been teaching out of Mallorytown and Burton's in Ottawa (but that could have been a one time thing)...

Hey BB... thanks. Glad someone's paying attention :D

Being an independant does mean that I travel a lot and teach all over. I did a deco class for Burtons and often use Dan's Mallorytown shop as a base of ops for the 1000 islands.

DS1... if you are interested in finding out more about what's on offer, PM me.

Doppler

[canuckdiver]

Steve is the man to talk to! IMHO, NOBODY can top him for quality in teaching.

[sisterJ]

canuckdiver once bubbled...
Steve is the man to talk to! IMHO, NOBODY can top him for quality in teaching.

That is just too funny.

DS1
when you are getting recommendations consider the source. I have recieved instruction from a number of agencies including TDI and GUE. I have had the pleasure of training with 2 different TDI instructors and 3 different GUE instructors. There is not a training agency out there that can hold a candle to GUE.
REad Scott account of his first experience with GUE and Dan from NTD

http://www.scubaboard.com/t31232/s.html

If you are interested, come out diving with us and we will be happy to show you the difference.

Take Care
sJ

[tektom]

sisterJ once bubbled...


That is just too funny.

sJ

Just curious - are you saying that the fact someone praises SL as an instructor is funny? Or are you amused that anyone would praise a non-GUE instructor? Granted I have seen the whole Star Wars bar scene out there and I can name the agencies, but there are independent instructors who could probably dive rings around a lot of GUE instructors. I know a few myself.:confused:

[sisterJ]

tektom once bubbled...

u
Just curious - are you saying that the fact someone praises SL as an instructor is funny? Or are you amused that anyone would praise a non-GUE instructor? Granted I have seen the whole Star Wars bar scene out there and I can name the agencies, but there are independent instructors who could probably dive rings around a lot of GUE instructors. I know a few myself.:confused:

Dear Curious

You are funny as well.

Starting with your post, it is amusing that you would take one line out of my original post here and make it into what you want it to be. Instead of reading the entire post for what it was.

What I find amusing in my original post is that canuck diver made such an absolute and unequivocal statement regarding tech diving instruction and has yet to have any experience regarding the subject other then to sit in on one of Dopplers skills course a few weekends past. His limited bereath of knowlegde on the subject does not make for an accurate or critical statement. And that is too funny.

As I stated in my original post, you should consider the source when taking recommendation from people. My opinion is based on experience. GUE standards and quality of training are far beyond that which I have experienced through TDI. This is based on experience and it is not limited to a single instructor experience from either agency.

I hope you can find the time to explain what independant instructors are. As far as I am aware all instructors are associated with one training agency or another.

It would also be appreciated if you post a list of instructors you believe are better then the rest. There is little loyality here, if I can get better training elsewhere, I would be interested in checking out their 'A' game and seeing what I can glean from it. Please do not hold back.

sJ

[canuckdiver]

sisterJ once bubbled...



What I find amusing in my original post is that canuck diver made such an absolute and unequivocal statement regarding tech diving instruction and has yet to have any experience regarding the subject other then to sit in on one of Dopplers skills course a few weekends past. His limited bereath of knowlegde on the subject does not make for an accurate or critical statement. And that is too funny.

sJ

sister J, you do not know me, and I do not know you.

I actually have quite a bit more experience with steve's teaching style and quality than just "sitting in on one class".

before you go making personal attacks and defamations, I would suggest you think about what you are about to say. I did not make any comments about you, or the person who trained you, I simply said IN MY HUMBLE OPINION, Steve is the best. Last time I checked, we lived in a free country where one could offer an opinion without being center-punched by somebody for simply offering an opinion.

[DivingGal]

Everyone is entitled to their opinions.

How you express them however, should be done with courtesy and with as much clarity so there is little or no miss-understanding Finally, you should recognize that not everyone will agree with your comments.

Please play nice.

[cobaltbabe]

Although I am not a "tech" diver, I do agree with CD when I say that SL or Doppler is an incredible teacher as well as a wonderful person. There are alot of instructors out there who teach this course and yes I haven't had the pleasure of seeing them in action, but I for one like Dopplers teaching methods and if I were up to his standards would be more then happy to go to him.

[Jimmy B]

I got it, Canuck Diver, tektom and sister J, give the board a 500 word essay on why you think the agency you like is the best. Give examples, listing instructors, experience and type of dives completed since completed said courses. This is a diving board and it's about diving.

JB

[RavenC]

Just a word of caution...

Not all agencies and instructors should be stereotyped together good or bad.

There are very good agencies with good teachings and bad instructors and vice-versa.

And, individuals who offer suggestions when another asks for it should have their opinions respected. What one likes about something or someone, another may not.

I am not a certified tech diver but the material I have researched tells me that GUE is an excellent source for training.

If a name is thrown out for consideration, respect the opinion. Ask questions about why or why not. Find out for yourself.

sisterJ, have you trained with Steve Lewis before? Is that why you choose to discount Canuck's opinion that he is a good instructor? Possibly you have had an experience with this instructor that is different from another and that is why you would discard Canuck's opinion.

Another point is that just because one has a bad experience doesn't mean that everyone will. It would be easy to see if others have had good experiences with Steve Lewis.

Don't criticize what you know nothing about. R

[cobaltbabe]

Very well put Raven. Another reason I respect this lady so much. :)

[RavenC]

cobaltbabe once bubbled...
Very well put Raven. Another reason I respect this lady so much. :)

My dear, I think we share a mutal respect for each other. (on bended knee with head bowed down and arm extended) :yeah: R

[vlada]

posts you gals and guys are reading that Sis does not think Doppler is a good instructor

To me, it sounded like SisJ merely wanted to point out that since Canuckdiver experiences in the tech training field were with Doppler only, he may not be as qualified to say that D is the best in the field since he may be lacking the point of reference

DS1, i will echo SisterJ's comments - you have to consider the source - ask what tech training and diving experience the person recommending the particular instructor/agency has, whether or not he/she was exposed to more than one agency, etc

Then ask quesitons pertaining to you personal tech training goals and aspirations - depending on what those are, you may have a different instructor/agency match better than others

I trained with both Doppler and Dan at NTD/GUE - IMO they are both good instructors and actually share somewhat similar philosophy/approach to teaching tech diving - i will not say that one is better than the other because it is meaningless w/o knowing personal circumstances of each student

I also hold a firm believe that + and - of individal instructors should be discussed in private exchanges because they are based on personal experiences - different story for agencies and requirements.

Happy bubbles,

VLada

[Doppler]

Hi... I'd normally keep out of this but think I should at least say a couple of things...

I didn't think that SisterJ was actually putting me or my teaching style down... she and I exchanged emails a week or so ago in which she warned me about something that I suspected... I confirmed what she told me... and avoided a potentially nasty situation and at best a wasted day.

And I don't think she has trained with me... Doesn't have to have to hold an opinion. She compared TDI with GUE. Frankly, that's a comparison that's often made and we win some and we lose some. That's free market economy! I love it. I love competition. As long as we have rules... :)

One thing TDI has to face is that we are a very large agency with several thousand instructors... some of them are simply rotten... that's a fact with any large agency that truly international. Perhaps SisJ found one of them... who knows.


Anyone who has trained with me will tell you I do not fit neatly into a pigeonhole. I would like to think that I am fair and have experience to back up what I teach. Some people have left my classes pissed at me because they felt I was too tough... whatever. I think I'm a pussycat.


Dan Mackay and I do share certain values... thanks Vlada... his DIR stance and my Hogathian one are not so different. I like Dan. I think he's worked bloody hard to get where he is and I respect him for it. Have never trained with him, but have seen the results of his work. If there were more Dan's out there, the Lakes and Caves would be safer.

And I really appreciate what you folks have said about me. You know who you are.... Thanks.

[NetDoc]

Anyone who has trained with me will tell you I do not fit neatly into a pigeonhole. I was really hoping to do the advanced pigeonhole diving specialty with you too! :tease:

I too agree that after all is said and done, that Doppler has quite a loyal fan club of dedicated divers. If I knew nothing else about him, that would be enough for me! BTW, when are you coming down Florida way, Doppler?

[James Pate]

I usually do not get involved but I feel this is a little out of hand and I feel we are all spending too much time typing and not enough time diving.

Steve,
Thanks for the input. I was going to mention that sJ had been talking to you over the past week and that it had all been on a positive note. I have read the posts on this thread and I do not get the impression that sJ has said anything derogatory regarding Doppler.

sJ has stated that she has had experience of both TDI training and GUE training and that her opinion is that GUE holds the higher standards and the higher quality in training. There was no mention of Instructor names.

I can relate to sJ's postition as I too have experienced training from a number of techincal training agencies and I have yet to find anything that comes close to the quality of training I have recieved from GUE. This opinion is based on experience. It is not simple conjecture.

This brings me to what I believe sJ is getting at. There is a lot of opinion but that is all it is. It is not based on experience or facts. I have read Canuck Divers post and I do find humor in its absolutism. My first question is "What is the basis for the statement. I cannot ascertain what your experience is from your profile. Therefore if you have the time, why not expand on your statement for all to see. Canuck diver this is not a slam between your eyes nor do I believe sJ was slamming between the eyes. This is just an attempt to put everything out on the table.

I have met most of you who have posted to this thread. And I have dove with a number of you. Regardless of training agencies recreational or tech, and regardless of diving experience; I have always done my best to make sure that everyone has a good time and enjoys safe dives.

As much as I would love to see you all embrace what I believe to be the only way to dive. I am resigned to the knowledge that what we have is not for everybody. We have plenty to do with training as a team and with mentoring those divers that want what we have.
I am not here to convert anyone but if someone wants what we have I will be more then accomodating. And I like sJ will voice my opinion based on my limited experience. And if I do not have an answer I will go and find someone who has.

There is also a post here regarding better instructors by tektom. Why not post or pm me the list. I too would be interested in researching them. We are taught at GUE that in order to better our skill set as divers that we have to dive with those that are better then ourselves. I would be interested in what these instructors have to offer.

All the best &
safe dives
James

[Doppler]

NetDoc once bubbled...
I was really hoping to do the advanced pigeonhole diving specialty with you too! :tease:

I too agree that after all is said and done, that Doppler has quite a loyal fan club of dedicated divers. If I knew nothing else about him, that would be enough for me! BTW, when are you coming down Florida way, Doppler?

Working on that course outline as we speak NetDoc... have to work out what I'm gonna have to charge you for it though!!! BetaTest pricing and all that :)

On a slightly more serious note: Don't think I'll be down in Florida until December... was hoping to get down in the early fall to do some wreck diving, but looks bleak right now.

Take care.

[Kevin R]

I don't know Steve except to recognize him on a site so I cannot comment on his teaching style. I am however, one of Dan MacKay's original Tech I students and I have had the pleasure of having him as a teammate regularily ever since. You will not find a more dedicated instructor. Dan has always found time to go for "one more dive" and help me with that one drill or skill that's not quite right, and I am looking forward to having him as an instructor again on my Tech II next month.

Your training will be difficult as there is no such thing as buying a GUE certification however, after it is finished you will have completed the best training in diving you can find. Better yet, assuming you continue to dive in the fashion in which you have been trained, you will have a structured group of dedicated DIR divers as teammates to work with and learn from.

DS1 - If you are interested in more info, or want to hook up for a dive with some of the local DIR guys and see what it's about, PM me. I am from Ottawa as well and am up at the quarry every Wednesday night practicing my skills with some like minded divers at various levels. Would love to have you along.

Kevin Ripley

[knives]

Well said James and Kevin,

I look forward to the tech 1 course with Dan at NTD as soon as I can get my skills up to standards....I need lots of practise you guys . Hope to dive with you soon.
:)

[sisterJ]

Thanks Vlada, Steve and James,

For reading my post for what it is and not trying to read anything extra into it. I was well aware of what I was bringing down when I answered the trolling post by tektom. I just wanted to bring it all out into the open.

canuckdiver, I was not attempting to make a personal attack on you. I have no motive to do so, nor do I have anything to gain through such actions. Please accept my humble apologies for what I said that has been construde in a negative light.
Unless I have you mistaken for somebody else I do believe we have met. You and your lady friend colbaltbabe were at NTD 5 or 6 weeks ago and were inquiring about GUE courses. If I have you mixed up with another person once again please accept my apologies.

RavenC, I was not discounting CD's opinion that Steve is a good instructor, what is amusing is the "NOBODY" statement. It is not based on any relative experience. I actually admire Steve for the loyal following that he has.

You also said "Don't criticize what you know nothing about. R"

I do know what I am talking about. After taking a number of TDI courses through to deco procedures: And after refusing to take a deep air course, which at the time was said to be a "must do": And after being refused access to different dive boat operations in Ft. Lauderdale and Pompono Beach because they would not accept my TDI cards as proof of qualification. (They were happy to accept my NAUI rescue card though). I decided to check my ego at the door and start fresh as a GUE DIRF student. The results of my performance on the course was quite disappointing. I had very little of the skill that I thought I had and I set upon upgrading my skill set to the point that I am now fine tuning that skill set for GUE Tech2. These skills were hard earned.
As James stated in his post I have yet to experience anything that mets or suppassed the training that I have recieved through GUE. This is based on experience. It is not conjucture.

sisterJ

[James Pate]

DS1

Kevin has a great idea. It might be worth your while to check out the quarry one Wednesday night with Kevin and the others. The divers are not all heavy tech some of them are recreational Dirf graduates.

I would then suggest that you take in one of Steve's classes as an observer. This would give you some focus as to what to look for and what your expectations are for tech training.

Cheers
James

[canuckdiver]

sisterJ once bubbled...

canuckdiver, I was not attempting to make a personal attack on you. I have no motive to do so, nor do I have anything to gain through such actions. Please accept my humble apologies for what I said that has been construde in a negative light.
Unless I have you mistaken for somebody else I do believe we have met. You and your lady friend colbaltbabe were at NTD 5 or 6 weeks ago and were inquiring about GUE courses. If I have you mixed up with another person once again please accept my apologies.
sisterJ

Thank you J
Apology accepted, and in response please allow me to apologize for getting a little steamed.

I does appear, however, that you DO have me confused with somebody else. When CB was in NTD that day, it was not me that was with her.

I have spoken to dan & tom in the past about taking courses with them, but have decided for now that I will be taking instruction from Steve. I did quite a bit of research last fall, and spoke to every instructor that I could find in ontario, pretty much from windsor to ottawa. After speaking to probably about a dozen different instructors, I decided that due to personality and knowledge, I was going to pursue instruction through steve. There are a lot of VERY good instructors in this area, and I never meant to imply that anybody else is sub-standard.

Also, just for the record, my choice was based on the instructor, not on the certifying agency. I was not, and AM not looking for plastic cards, I am looking for knowledge.

dive safe
adam
:)

[Jimmy B]

I hope it wasn't the physical fitness standards that scared you away from GUE.

JB

[John McClane]

Has anyone taken a good look at the Padi (I can hear the backs raising now) Tec Rec program. Beyond dismissing it becasue it is associated with Padi - is there anything wrong with the program itself. Instructor aside, are the course content and requirements fitting with what people on this board feel is "good education".
It is pretty new on the market and I am not sure if it is cheap copy or improved from others.
Any comments

No I am not a Padi course director.

[Jimmy B]

John McClane once bubbled...
Has anyone taken a good look at the Padi (I can hear the backs raising now) Tec Rec program. Beyond dismissing it becasue it is associated with Padi - is there anything wrong with the program itself. Instructor aside, are the course content and requirements fitting with what people on this board feel is "good education".
It is pretty new on the market and I am not sure if it is cheap copy or improved from others.
Any comments

No I am not a Padi course director.

ROTFLMAO Stop it my side hurts, you're killing me here. Did I say ROTFLMAO

JB

[DS1]

well thanks for everyone's help but i decided to go with steve lewis cause all i hear is good things about him... i didnt really care what agency the course came from i just wanted a good instructor

THANKS ;)

[wb416]

Kevin Ripley once bubbled...
I don't know Steve except to recognize him on a site so I cannot comment on his teaching style. I am however, one of Dan MacKay's original Tech I students and I have had the pleasure of having him as a teammate regularily ever since. You will not find a more dedicated instructor.

[snip]

Kevin Ripley

I had classes from both of these instructors. Both are extremely dedicated to their craft.

Having taken classes from Steve, having sat through classes with friends that were taking it, and also having recently watched Steve's deco procedures in-water class work, you'd be hard pressed to find a more dedicated instructor. I have friends that have taken the full gamut of Steve's technical classes, and I highly respect their ability in the water, which speaks volumes about his teaching. I personally really like Steve's teaching style, as it matches up with my learning style very well. He also has a great personality outside of class.

I recently had Dan (along with Andrew G & Tyler Moon) in a Tech 1 course, as well as last year in a DIRF. The dedication and effort during the long hours of the class was exemplary.

Talk to other's that you know that have taken classes from both. Assess their teaching styles to see if it matches your learning style (best instruction in the world does little good if it doesn't line up with your learning methodology). Talk with both instructors and ask to sit in their classes. Then, make an informed decision based on this knowledge, adding an ounce of "gut-feel", then study the agency to make sure you can live with the card you'll receive.

good luck in your decision,
Bob Overstreet

[In Depth]

PADI still defends deep air. That alone should send you running.

[John McClane]

Ya I guess 165 feet is pretty deep to be breathing air. I read somewhere they were going to start up a Trimix program as well but nothing has ever come out about it - maybe they abandoned it.(?)
Lots of neat wrecks aren't that deep anyway, I did a few dives on the Empress of Ireland last week and only got down to about 125 feet - don't know what all the fuss is about. Nice wreck, calm fun dive, even took my camera along in case i got bored - nice photos.
If I ever plan on anything deeper I will have to look into trimix I guess. Here I thought air was okay down to about 218 feet or something.
That's what one of my instructors said anyway - he seems pretty smart and hasn't died yet or killed anyone.
Hard to really get to know any instructor until after you have really swam a few fathoims with them - beyond that it is all opinion - which we all have I guess.
By the way this message board is great - I got an invite on that Empress trip within one hour of asking if anyone was going - cool.

[In Depth]

The beauty of the GUE training is you never have to experience deep air. They are teaching nitrox and trimix from day one. Tech I covers down to 150 on normoxic trimix and a single deco gas. That's most of the diving in the St. Lawrence.

In Depth