need advice on harness

[gbray]

For half of my diving carreer I have been using a BP/W with a continuous web harness with both a single and double tanks. I have become quite comfortable with it. Untill lately I have never tried to donn/doff it in the water. During my drysuit class I was required to do just that. What an eye opening experience. It was quite difficult.It got me to thinking. I know DIR doesnt advocate anything with quick disconnects and I was wondering what they do in a situation at depth where you might be entangled and need to remove your rig. I know cutting the webbing is an option but if you are deep you would want to put it back on for your ascent or deco obligation. I have been seriously considering a transplate harness because of this experience. I have also been lookjing into a GUE Fundies class and wondered if they would accept someone wearing a transplate harness. Does this get any easier with practice? Am I over analysing? What do you think? I am not sure what to do.

Thanks for your advise and input.

[RonFrank]

I am not sure if you *loose points* so to speak for using a harness with a quick release in a DIR F class. I do know you can dive one in that class.

if you practice trying to remove the BP, and this proves difficult IMO safety over manta. Buy a harness you can get out of, and go on with life. Some divers also wear their harness very tight. That is not all that necessary, and maybe just adjusting the shoulders to provide a bit more play may make the process of donning/doffing a bit easier and more practical.

[captain]

Just get a weight belt buckle and put it on the left shoulder strap. All of the early before BC,s packs had some form of snap or buckle on the left strap. Handy both above and below the surface.
Notice the buckle just below the D ring on the left shoulder strap on my rig.

[Scott L]

I suffered through much of the same before eventually becoming more comfortable. First, you need D-Rings just below clavicle for an easy thumb catch to effect the chicken wing exit which greatly simplifies the process. Secondly, many bigger guys such as myself have gravitated to stiffer webbing which Dive Rite has a good medium grade and Deep Sea Supply having a very stiff resin coated variety. Lastly, I would visit experinced LDS to gain assitance fine tuning final adjustments...

P.S. Entanglements....that's what dive buddies are for. If all else fails this will cut through webbing and anything else like for that matter...

http://www.benchmade.com/products/7

[ScubaInChicago]

There could be two or three things working against you.

1. Too much air in the wing at the surface will push the bp/w away from your body and restrict the arm movement. Try not to over inflate the wing at the surface.

2. Too much air in the drysuit at the surface also has the same effect and compounded with to much air in the wing makes it near impossible.

3. It could simply be that the straps are too tight, but if your able to get out of the rig on land easily look at issues 1 and 2.

***Contrary to belief, in an emergency if you were unconscious at the surface and someone didn't cut you out the harness, it's very easy to get the arms out. The same principal as point 1 applies, when you are on your back the bp/w is pushed tight to your body and will give more play in the harness and make it easy to get the arms out. When you have the right fit have your buddy attempt to doff your rig at the surface while on your back using the chicken wing one arm at a time. You'll probably be amazed how easy it is.

[Underwater Ogre]

Just get a weight belt buckle and put it on the left shoulder strap. All of the early before BC,s packs had some form of snap or buckle on the left strap. Handy both above and below the surface.
Notice the buckle just below the D ring on the left shoulder strap on my rig.

I agree with the captain this works real well. I wouldn't have it any other way.
U/O

[Web Monkey]

For half of my diving carreer I have been using a BP/W with a continuous web harness with both a single and double tanks. I have become quite comfortable with it. Untill lately I have never tried to donn/doff it in the water. During my drysuit class I was required to do just that. What an eye opening experience. It was quite difficult.It got me to thinking.

It was difficult because it's too tight.

Since you said this was a drysuit class, I'm assuming your previous dives were with a wetsuit. A drysuit is thicker, and requires larger shoulder loops, so you'll need to adjust the harness.

When sized correctly, you can slip out of it with very little effort underwater.

Terry

[Scott L]

It was difficult because it's too tight.

That's basically the prob...

[RJP]

When sized correctly, you can slip out of it with very little effort underwater.



Yup

:blinking:

[Teamcasa]

...I have become quite comfortable with it. Untill lately I have never tried to donn/doff it in the water. During my drysuit class I was required to do just that. What an eye opening experience. It was quite difficult.
...
Does this get any easier with practice? Am I over analysing? What do you think? I am not sure what to do.

If, after adjusting and some practice, you still find it difficult to don or doff your gear, A TransPac will help but I chose the Apex WTXHarness (http://www.aqualung.com/kr/content/view/206/193/) as it can take a steel plate for doubles, has a two inch crotch strap and can be packed small and light for air travel.

[gbray]

OK, time for an update. Got some pretty interesting suggestions. I did in fact dive a wet suit prior to this class and thinking the drysuit would require more room I actually did let the webbing out. At this point I am not sure if it was enough but the rig did feel looser than normal during this dive.

I didnot, however, think about having too much air in the suit or BC at the surface. Next time I dive I will have to try this again with less air.

The buckle on the left shoulder strap is a very interesting idea. For no other reason than just curious what do DIR types think of this? After reading the suggestions here
I noticed in my LDS today DiveRite has a semi continuous webbing with a QD on the left shoulder strap. It is called the deluxe harness with QD. Has anyone tried this and what do you think of it? Does it work well with doubles?

Thanks for the input everyone.I plan on getting another back plate (stainless since I now have aluminum) So I plan on trying all of the ideas mentioned above. Yea, more reasons to do more dives (like I really needed more reasons). I'm still open to other ideas also.

[RJP]

The buckle on the left shoulder strap is a very interesting idea. For no other reason than just curious what do DIR types think of this?



We don't.

:shocked2:

[Scott L]

OK, time for an update. Got some pretty interesting suggestions. I did in fact dive a wet suit prior to this class and thinking the drysuit would require more room I actually did let the webbing out. At this point I am not sure if it was enough but the rig did feel looser than normal during this dive.

I didnot, however, think about having too much air in the suit or BC at the surface. Next time I dive I will have to try this again with less air.

The buckle on the left shoulder strap is a very interesting idea. For no other reason than just curious what do DIR types think of this? After reading the suggestions here
I noticed in my LDS today DiveRite has a semi continuous webbing with a QD on the left shoulder strap. It is called the deluxe harness with QD. Has anyone tried this and what do you think of it? Does it work well with doubles?

Thanks for the input everyone.I plan on getting another back plate (stainless since I now have aluminum) So I plan on trying all of the ideas mentioned above. Yea, more reasons to do more dives (like I really needed more reasons). I'm still open to other ideas also.

Never mind...

[RJP]

I noticed in my LDS today DiveRite has a semi continuous webbing with a QD on the left shoulder strap. It is called the deluxe harness with QD. Has anyone tried this and what do you think of it? Does it work well with doubles?



Buckles and straps and d-rings, oh my!

http://www.divegearexpress.com/media/bcs/diverite/BC1080Q-480.jpg

Had one for about 5 dives and then ditched it in favor of single piece harness.

I found the Q-R buckle sat right on my collar bone no matter what I did.
The ability to properly locate chest D-rings is severely limited.
Too much going on near the chest d-rings, resulting in things getting clipped incorrectly or tangled.

Less is more:

http://www.divegearexpress.com/media/bcs/diverite/BC1063-480.jpg

[ScubaInChicago]

The buckle on the left shoulder strap is a very interesting idea. For no other reason than just curious what do DIR types think of this?

There's no reason to...

[captain]

Doesn't everyone know a buckle on the left shoulder strap will kill you. They have killed me several times in the last 50 years.

[Teamcasa]

Doesn't everyone know a buckle on the left shoulder strap will kill you. They have killed me several times in the last 50 years.

Me too! I've been killed at least 75 times by my harness system.

[coldsmoke]

From a DIR standpoint I'm not sure there is ever a reason to don/doff your rig.

That being said however, I have done it a few times. A class I took required it. Taking it off is easy. In fact you need to be able to do that for small boat exits. Getting it back on is a bit more difficult, but this is what works well for me:
For doffing: Get neutral, un-hook all the junk (bungeed backup, drysuit inflation, and un-wrap the long hose but keep it in your mouth) then grab the valve/manifold and pull the rig over your head while you kind of roll forward.
For donning: Pretty much the opposite. Get your rig neutral or just slightly negative. Face the valve/manifold with regs up towards you. Put long hose in your mouth. Stick your arms through the straps and kind of roll or somersault(?) into it. Think old school donning on the surface over your head.


HTH

Hunter

[Web Monkey]

The buckle on the left shoulder strap is a very interesting idea. For no other reason than just curious what do DIR types think of this? After reading the suggestions here

I'm not DIR, but stuff you don't have won't ever cause problems.

You won't die if you add an extra buckle, but assuming you have two shoulders that still work well, a buckle won't really help much either, and it's just something else for your hand to run into when you're looking for the D-ring.

If you have a frozen shoulder or other damage, you might actually need a buckle.

Terry

[RJP]

From a DIR standpoint I'm not sure there is ever a reason to don/doff your rig.



Right - wear it every waking second of every day!

:rofl3:

[coldsmoke]

Right - wear it every waking second of every day!

:rofl3:

What? You don't do that? Stroke.:rofl3:

Hunter

[rongoodman]

I looked into this last spring while I was trying to regain mobility after a fractured arm. The G2 harness from Golem Gear is simpler than the Transplate, with two SS buckles of the type used in high-angle rescue harnesses. You could drop a set of doubles on them without harming them and you have much more latitude as to where they and the D-rings are located. OTOH, if you're going to buy a new plate, you could buy a Halcyon and have the option of trying out the new Cinch harness.

[Druid]

I had one of the DR deluxe harnesses and I didn't like it - the clip was too high and just got in the way. I now use a OPH with a loop of webbing and a pinch clip under the left armpit

http://i249.photobucket.com/albums/gg209/druid16/diving/IMG_1251.jpg

It's not DIR, but it makes it much easier to dekit when I'm diving off a RIB.

If you must be DIR compliant, have a look at the Halcyon Cinch as suggested above.

It's $100 though, my modification was about $3 :)

[RJP]

my modification was about $3 :)




Yeah, but...

You're gonna die!

:crafty:

[Druid]

Yeah, but...

You're gonna die!

:crafty:

Isn't everyone? :)

Even if the clip breaks the harness won't fall off my back, one side just gets a bit loose. When I did my IANTD AdvNitrox course I was still using my DR Deluxe harness with a break in the harness. We had to swim with the clip undone, carrying a 10 ltr stage and I didn't die then. I didn't even get ill :dontknow:

[mikemill]

Right - wear it every waking second of every day!

:rofl3:

Wait... is that why I was getting funny looks?

[lamont]

If you have trouble with doff/don at the surface you may want to loosen up the shoulder straps and tighten up the crotch strap to allow more wiggle room. This also has the beneficial effect of dropping the tanks on your back, which can help your trim with large steel doubles in cold saltwater.

[Teamcasa]

Yeah, but...

You're gonna die!

:crafty:

Right! It may take a hundred years, but you are going to die!:rofl3:

[RJP]

Right! It may take a hundred years, but you are going to die!:rofl3:

See Dave, you're starting to come around!

Are you willing to admit that nearly everyone who dives with split fins will also eventually die?

:eyebrow:

[PfcAJ]

My issue with quick releases (plastic in particular) is not in-water release (which could be a pretty big issue, depending on the dive) is what happens if it separates when you are on a pitching boat ladder while wearing heavy tanks.

Your back is done for.

For those with shoulder injuries or doing dives that require the in-water remove of your kit, consider this Behind The Scenes: Developing the Halcyon Cinch (Patent Pending) | Halcyon Dive Systems (http://halcyon.net/node/267)

I had the opportunity to play with one last week and its an impressive design.

[Teamcasa]

See Dave, you're starting to come around!

Are you willing to admit that nearly everyone who dives with split fins will also eventually die?

:eyebrow:Don't push it....;)

[Hepcat62]

For those with shoulder injuries or doing dives that require the in-water remove of your kit, consider this Behind The Scenes: Developing the Halcyon Cinch (Patent Pending) | Halcyon Dive Systems (http://halcyon.net/node/267)

I had the opportunity to play with one last week and its an impressive design.

I just picked up a full Infinity setup, which includes the cinch. It works as advertised, and I'm extremely pleased. The weight of the tank really does lock it down fairly well (although not quite as rigidly as the non-cinch harness). Once the waist strap is buckled it's quite secure and stable. I find it easier to don/doff in my drysuit than my Knighthawk.