OMS vs Halcyon

[Phoenix]

can anyone give me the pros and cons of the Halcyon Explorer #70 over the OMS Dual #100

i've had alot of people tell me to get the halycon gear, so if anyone can let me know the differences that would be great, cheers

[Wendy]

What size doubles are you wearing? And do you stage and deco diving? The reason I ask is cuz those wings are fairly big and I just was curious as to how you came up with those 2 wings to choose from.

[Doppler]

Phoenix once bubbled...
can anyone give me the pros and cons of the Halcyon Explorer #70 over the OMS Dual #100

i've had alot of people tell me to get the halycon gear, so if anyone can let me know the differences that would be great, cheers

Ryan: you might also consider the smaller Halcyon or Equiv. Wing... say #55. Unless you are carrying several stages and other equipment -- scooters and cameras and big video lights -- the larger models are a bit overkill.

Describe to us what you want to do and what sort of conditions you dive in...

Thanks mate

[salty]

the inside of the OMS looks like a zip lock baggy, the halcyon looks like it is made of balistic nylon.

[Manos]

You dont need a Double Blader wing in any Senario.

You dont need a second inflator , you dont need 2 inflation hoses , then you wear a Dry SUit , what you will do add an
inflation hose 3 ????

Actualy if your equipment configuration is corect , that means
double steel tanks only with a Dry suit and aluminium stage
tanks then just add Halcyon 55.


Manos.
www.dir.cy.net

[Phoenix]

well your right i probably dont need the 70, but im getting this in preperation for a project next year which will probably be utilising twin 12s/15s, and 2 or three small stages, with scooters and camera/strobes, id rather not go and have two different bladders due to cost implciations at the moment, have to get a £600 drysuit as well, so i have the inflation of the suit as well, and i am quite aware of the dangers of a larger wing if the inflater where to stick/free flow, but are there any other major disadvantages to the larger ones? drag? i have quite a wide shoulder span so im not sure if that would be quite an issue but its something to consider

other than that expedition, it will mainly be normal diving activities and wrecks around the UK, the main requirement is for this project as i say, which will be multi stage dives

at what point does the 55# become dangerously ineffective?

[Phoenix]

and we dont use alu' in the UK, they are hard to source and even hearder to get inspected, so its steels all the way, steel 12s/15s and 2 or 3 steel 7 stage bottles
with a SS backplate

[Manos]

Ryan do you cave or wreck dive ?

this explains everything , your problem is the steel stages.
By not correcting this you create another problem which is the
need for biger wing. Now you have 4 problems.

1: steel stage tanks will , ruin your trim => kick more silt
2: Need biger wing => more drag.
3: Need to re adjust your boyancy every time you take one off
to pass through a restriction.
4: They are heavy hang down like a brick and entangle on enything.

I Usualy dive 2x15 which weight 21kg + vweight 5kg some times with 2-3 stages ( ALu 80 ) ( come on men this is the most poppular tank in the world , even my self i can find it and i leave in a Greek Med Island ). Get reat of the steel stage tanks and
buy yourself a Halcyon 55. Have a look at my page see how those tanks " swimm " along with the diver .

I love them when i scooter around.

[Manos]

Oh ! By the way you will have no problems with 55lb
and 12-15 Ltr steel double Tanks.

But dont use them with 10Ltr otherwise you will look like a Manta ray.

[Phoenix]

its not that you cant get them here, its the servicability of them, due to strict HSE (health and safety executive) rules regarding the use of al tanks in the UK, especially when used under high pressure u can find them, but you will have to send them to one of only a handful of places for the testing, and they require full tests every 2 years not every 5 years like steels,

no i dont cave/rec dive yet, im quite new to the technical diving scene so im just playing on the ear of caution and asking around :)

[Manos]

>> and i am quite aware of the dangers of a larger wing if the inflater where to stick/free flow, <<

Ray Again you are confusing me now. If your inflator in some magic way sticks on a non bungee wing you have no problem
at all. You just Press the dinflate button at the same time.

This will buy you a few seconds until you close the right valve ,
switch to your backup reg and call the dive.
The remaing gas in your wing will keep your boyancy ( you can still orally inflate it , if is not an OMS piece of **** ).


Biger or smaller wing will not make any difference.

[Manos]

>> no i dont cave/rec dive yet, im quite new to the technical diving scene so im just playing on the ear of caution and asking around >>

Ok the excuse me for not taking thinks from the begining.

Let me repeat what you should avoid. I can also explain why but this will be a 22 pages message. probably you will learn much more from the right source wich is GUE ( www.gue.com )rather than from my single post.

No matter who is telling you how succesfuly he has done it over the years

DO NOT :

Dive steel doubles with wetsuit.
Dive steel stage tanks.
Dive Double inflators , double blader wings.
Dive Bungee wings.

This will also answer your initial question which was which Wing.

Rgds Manos

[DIR Tec Diver]

Manos is exactly right (as usual)

I have both steel 12s and steel 15s (the same ones as Manos in fact) and with steel 12s you need an explorer 40 and with the 15s the explorer 55, however if budget limits you then get the 55. It is a bit big for the steel 12s but not by much.

Never get a bungeed bcd or one with any type of quick disconnects.

This is regardless of whether or not you decide to get into some advanced or technical diving, it is just a smarter way to approach diving and the right equipment, and in case you do decide to go further you will already have the right equipment.

That does not change which is one of the benefits and nice things about DIR

[Marvintpa]

There are still plenty of people who dive bunjeed wings (like myself) that prefer them. They do work. I'm sure Halcyon's setup works too. I'm not saying one group or the other is wrong, just that there are options. You are part of a dive team, and if the people you are diving with are set up one way, you may be safer diving that way as well, as long as that configuration works for you and you feel confident and safe using it.

There is little reason to put your life in the hands of someone you don't know and have no reason to trust. Make your own decisions.

[BigJetDriver]

Manos once bubbled...
>> no i dont cave/rec dive yet, im (sic) quite new to the technical diving scene so im (sic) just playing on the ear of caution and asking around >>

Ok the excuse me for not taking thinks (sic) from the begining.

Let me repeat what you should avoid. I can also explain why but this will be a 22 pages message. probably you will learn much more from the right source wich (sic) is GUE ( www.gue.com )rather than from my single post.

No matter who is telling you how succesfuly he has done it over the years (sic)

DO NOT :

Dive steel doubles with wetsuit.
Dive steel stage tanks.
Dive Double inflators , double blader (sic) wings.
Dive Bungee wings. (Ed. note: "The infamous Great Bungee-ed Wings of Death!)

This will also answer your initial question which was which Wing.

Rgds Manos

I find it interesting that someone who is ADMITTEDLY new to any kind of technical diving then proceeds to hand out the "Four Commandments"!:confused:

As Caveseeker7, who is one of our more logical writers on this board, is fond of quoting: "What works, works!" Or again, in the words of Frans Vandermolen, of the International Advisory Board for IANTD, "If you have a good reason to make a change to your equipment or configuration, test it rigorously. If it works reliably and well, then go ahead and use it!";)

[Jonathan]

why are you looking at American brands when one of the best is about 20 miles from you in Redhill....

Custom Divers wings are designed and manufactured by UK tech divers for their own expeditions. As a result the UK diving fraternity get one of the best products out there IMHO.

I saw some Halcyon wings this weekend for the first time 27,36 and 45 - to be honest I don't see what all the song and dance is about, I won't be trading in any time soon....

I hope that's a British dry suit you're getting too ;)

Jonathan

[DIR Tec Diver]

Hi,

Manos is not new to tech diving, actually he has been doing it a looooong time. That was probably just a misunderstanding somehow.

Anyway, here is a bit of info. I dive steel 15l tanks, and found through my discussions with some GUE instructors that even my explorer 55 was too big for my 15s. Yesterday when I was doing some wreck diving, I switched over to my Explorer 40 to test it out. The difference was unbelievable. I always have used the 40 for my twin 12s but thought since the 15s were so much heavier I would need the 55. Wrong. When looking at the exact buoyancy characteristics of the tanks the 40 was the best choice.

Also to test to make sure that I have enough buoyancy to supply my buddy if needed, I did some tests at about 20 meters also. No problem at all there either. This weekend when I go to the mines, I will take a 10l stage and my Gavins to see how that goes, but I am sure no problems at all. Now my 55 can sit in my locker until I get those lovely 18s.

[Tibbs]

Pheonix,

There's no difficulty getting Ali cylinders. You just need to ask for them! Steel stage/deco bottles are simply vile and a nightmare to handle in the water. I've seen a diver safely using a 40lb wing with twin 12s, 3 stages (Ali of course) and 2 scooters, so a 55lb wing will be more than adequate with anything up to twin 20s. No idea where you are, but DDS in Poole has a load of Alis in. It would be great if Luxfer did Ali80s for the UK market, as they are by far the best stage bottles buoyancy wise. As for testing it's only the old alis that needed eddycurrent testing, the new ones are fine.

As for Custom Divers... Well I've been stung by the 'Buy British' bug before. All the stuff I've bought from Custom Divers has been shoddily designed and made, makes me shudder just thinking about it. The wing they produce is simply dreadful, though not as bad as their harness, which should be sold through S&M shops as it's that uncomfortable. Torches? Ick! My friend's dad used to buy British and wound up with a Marina, a Maxi and a Princess. Nuff said? ;)

Chris

[Jonathan]

is try their new torches - the old ones were not very good admitadly but the new range is very good and I like mine a lot.

As to the wings and harnesses - I have no hesitation recommending them. Had mine for almost 3 years and I do not find it uncomfortable or shoddy.

nuff said

[Mike Wellsted]

Dear Manos

You say: DO NOT :

Dive steel doubles with wetsuit.
Dive steel stage tanks.
Dive Double inflators , double blader wings.
Dive Bungee wings.

I'd be gratefull if you would explain the reasons for the DO NOTS.

Thanks

Mike

[RobK]

its not that you cant get them here, its the servicability of them, due to strict HSE (health and safety executive) rules regarding the use of al tanks in the UK, especially when used under high pressure u can find them, but you will have to send them to one of only a handful of places for the testing, and they require full tests every 2 years not every 5 years like steels,<Snip>

As Tibbs has already stated, this isn't true. Ali's are easy to get hold of in the UK and servicability is not an issue. I'm not sure where you got your info but it's wrong. You can even get CE approved AL80s from Germany that can be filled and tested in the UK without any problems.

My advice, get Luxfer Ali 7s.

You don't need anything bigger than a 40lb wing. I use a 40lb wing with twin 12's & stages etc and have no problems. I have a 55lb wing as well that is simply too big and sits in the back of my dive cupboard waiting for a set of twin 18s ;)

BTW Custom Divers is a euphemism for complete bollox.

HTH
Rob.

[flw]

As Tibbs has already stated, this isn't true. Ali's are easy to get hold of in the UK and servicability is not an issue. I'm not sure where you got your info but it's wrong. You can even get CE approved AL80s from Germany that can be filled and tested in the UK without any problems.

My advice, get Luxfer Ali 7s.
Rob.

It depends, as far as I understand it Al 7's are imported from somewhere, and and I've had problems replacing mine in the past, although I currently have a couple of Al7's - they are a complete pain to get tested, as no-where locally does them, and they have to wait till I'm in Aberdeen.
As for whether or not they are ideal, it depends very much on what you intend putting into them. I have one with 16/50 in, and that makes them _very_ floaty, irratatingly so, and I'm not convinced that a 7 is quite big enough anyway, so I've just got a Faber 10 as a stage, which is better. For nitrox/O2 Al7's are fine - but they do have limitations

[grazie42]

Manos said:

DO NOT :
DO NOT :
Dive steel doubles with wetsuit.
Dive Double inflators , double blader wings.
Dive Bungee wings.


Since you´re being so categorical...please explain WHY? with short uncomplicated sentences so that the pagans (=non DIR) can understand...

I´ve dived steel doubles with a wetsuit and see NO problem with it, what am I missing?
As for the rest...is there anything more to it then DIR gospel?
Have you ever used such wings and why did you stop?

If you find this post slightly inflamatory I suggest you go back to the above post and think about why...this was the general tek forum last time I looked...

[Scuba Cowboy]

Here is my opinion as to the difference between OMS & Halcyon. OMS makes a full line of equipment that accomidates a variety of divers and diving styles. Halcyon doesn't have a full line and their equipment is primarily directed at one particular diving style. Both make high quality gear, OMS just has more high quality products.

[Boogie711]

I haven't seen Manos on here since oh - about July 2003. Take a look at the dates, people.

I am far from an authoritative source on DIR issues. You're better to ask someone like MHK... however:

a) Steel doubles in a wetsuit opens you up to a world of hurt if you lose the use of your BC. Far better to have something you can swim up with an empty wing.

b) Dual bladder wings are just plain scary. Why would anyone want to rig an inflator behind them, out of the way, and even worse hooked up? A buddy of mine in England told me a story about a guy who did exactly the same thing and is now contemplating his future on two wheels, a wheelchair that is - I am sure it is pretty simple to work out the scenario. Hooked up second inflator, which got jammed between his back and the plate, hence uncontrolled ascent, blown off deco and a chopper ride.

c) Bungee wings are an entanglement hazard, and if you develop a hole near the bottom of the wing, they will force the air out. Without bungees, you can change position in the water column and still maintain bouyancy. Furthermore, they're unnecessary since you should be diving the proper size wing for the task at hand.

All three of those responses are worthy of seperate threads on their own, and in fact, are. Please feel free to do a search for more answers.

Cheers.

[grazie42]

Ohh...sorry...didnt look at the dates...
As I´m in the process of purchasing a wing the topic interests me though...

Boogie711 said:

b) Dual bladder wings are just plain scary. Why would anyone want to rig an inflator behind them, out of the way, and even worse hooked up? A buddy of mine in England told me a story about a guy who did exactly the same thing and is now contemplating his future on two wheels, a wheelchair that is - I am sure it is pretty simple to work out the scenario. Hooked up second inflator, which got jammed between his back and the plate, hence uncontrolled ascent, blown off deco and a chopper ride.
Granted I´ve only looked at an OMS wing but both the inflators were in the front...could you explain in more detail please?


Bungee wings are an entanglement hazard, and if you develop a hole near the bottom of the wing, they will force the air out. Without bungees, you can change position in the water column and still maintain bouyancy.
Umm...why not just take the bungees of the wing? you´re not paying more for an OMS then a Halcyon, removing the bungees wouldn´t leave me feeling like I overpaid for the wing...just doesent seem like much of an argument...

Just looking to make an informed decision and understand why...

[fldivenut]

Ohh...sorry...didnt look at the dates...
As I´m in the process of purchasing a wing the topic interests me though...


DIR or not DIR is like religion and is discussed in length elsewhere.

Read up on it yourself and never take anyone's word for granted, make up your own mind.

The GUE website has a lot of DIR info available, and one of the best (objective) pieces I have found there is: http://www.gue.com/equipment/jj-hogarth.shtml

And on the issue of redundant bladders and dry suits as BC it says: "Some divers insist on a reserve BC while others feel they are unnecessary. Generally the consensus is that while diving wet in an area with a deep or nonexistent floor (i.e. ocean or large cave) a redundant BC is a good idea. Many people feel that a diver diving a dry suit could use the suit for emergency buoyancy. This assertion is quite reasonable but should be practiced to determine one's proficiency."

And you don't dive dry suit unless you need it for warmth.

--A

[grazie42]

fldivenut said:

The GUE website has a lot of DIR info available, and one of the best (objective) pieces I have found there is: http://www.gue.com/equipment/jj-hogarth.shtml

Thank you! From what I´ve read on this board even the DIR "moderates" sometimes come off as "preachy" something that tends to irritate me...that piece actually contained a lot of good thoughts (I think)...

My questions to Boogie711 still stand though...I actually looked at an OMS wing today trying to see what he meant with: "Why would anyone want to rig an inflator behind them"

The one I looked @ didnt have bungees so as its (obviously) a personal choice whether to leave them on or off that argument seems very weak (and even then the piece referenced above doesent seem to dissaprove of them)...

[Boogie711]

Same deal, Grazie - do a search on "dual bladder wing" or something. Tons of info.

[Doc Intrepid]

My questions to Boogie711 still stand though...I actually looked at an OMS wing today trying to see what he meant with: "Why would anyone want to rig an inflator behind them". The one I looked @ didnt have bungees so as its (obviously) a personal choice whether to leave them on or off that argument seems very weak (and even then the piece referenced above doesn't seem to dissaprove of them)...

There are always rational arguments behind DIR recommendations. Whether you choose to agree with them or not, or whether they appear to apply to the diving you often do, is a different matter.

Several concepts apply to bungeed wings. As the topic has been thoroughly beaten, I'll be brief:

Should you ever need to try to inflate the wing on the surface orally, you will be trying to blow into the wing against the pressure of the bungee cord. As any situation where you need to inflate the wing orally implies that you aren't having a good day to begin with, additional stress is not likely to improve your survival odds.

The bungees pull the wing in at defined 'bands', thereby trapping air in between bungee bands. If you are attempting to fine tune your bouyancy using the left rear pull dump, it can make it difficult to balance right and left. The air does not circulate as freely inside the wing.

The bungees are supposed to 'gather' the wing in, thereby supposedly reducing drag. In video footage, however, wings without bungees 'fold up' against the twinset on each side, presenting very little drag along the longitudinal axis of the diver.

There are other elements as well, but these are some primary thoughts. (Um, and why would you desire to buy a bungeed wing to then remove the bungees leaving all those grommeted holes? Just buy one without bungees to begin with...)

In terms of diving steels wet, this has been addressed above. Suffice to say that with two deco bottles and steel twins the total excess weight a diver can have at the beginning of a dive can be greater than 25-30 lbs. A wing failure at the start of the dive, after the wetsuit has been compressed at depth, can leave a diver in excess of 30 lbs heavy, no wing, and even if the diver jettison's the deco bottles, they are still trying to swim up 20+ excess lbs with no bouyancy at all. Unless they remove the steel doubles and do an ESA, their options are decidedly limited.

One argument against dual bladders is the distressing tendency for some LP inflators to suffer low level leaks. If you connect both LP hoses to inflators, and you keep getting lighter and lighter causing you to need to dump gas to maintain bouyancy, now you need to determine which inflator is leaking. Some divers don't hook up the right inflator. Some divers secure the inflator that isn't hooked up along their right side, bungeed to the bp. Now if there is a problem they must access the LP inflator on their right, then connect it, while dealing with other task loading resulting from the failure, which can become problematic. It isn't necessarily that there is no place for dual bladders. It is that they require a more robust planning and training effort.

Obviously, whether you find these arguments compelling or not will depend on your circumstances. But these are some of the arguments being referred to earlier.

Regards,

Doc

[grazie42]

Doc Intrepid:

There are always rational arguments behind DIR recommendations.
Thank you for telling me what they are...

(Um, and why would you desire to buy a bungeed wing to then remove the bungees leaving all those grommeted holes? Just buy one without bungees to begin with...)
Because its cheaper and everything else about the wing is perfectly fine...I´m not too concerned with how it will look afterwards so the holes dont bother me...

I will buy an unbungeed, bungeed wing. Thank you all for helping me make the decision based on good information about the pros and cons...

[Scuba Cowboy]

Grazie42,
When you buy an OMS bungeed wing, they come without the bungee's installed. You can either put 'em on or not. I have dove both bungeed & unbungeed wings and I prefer the bungee's. Contrary to what you've heard, they are very streamlined, don't trap air and can be orally inflated quite easily. Try them yourself, bungeed & unbungeed and make up your own mind. Don't take the word of someone who probably has never dove them. Many DIR divers just repeat the party line about these wings without ever having tried them.

[grazie42]

I will thanks, Scuba Cowboy...I´m buying it used and the guy who´s been using it took the bungees off...
While I´m setting it up I´ll definetly experiment with bungees (and everything else I can think of...)

[kuster500]

I have an OMS dual bladder 100 that I have dove with. Here is what I will tell you about it.

The bungies are easy to use or not use depending on the diving that you are currently doing. When I cave dive with it, I unbungie it. When I dive in OW, I bungie it. Air will stick some in the bladder when bungied, but it is not difficult to manage.

Trying to use the second inflator hose is just like every gear configuration, YOU NEED TO PRACTICE WITH IT. If you take it into a pool and play with it a bunch before doing tech diving with it, it will help you imensely. I was told (since I don't do deep cave) that dual bladder wings are a requirement. Can someone explain that?

The problem with the wing comes with the size of the tank. If you are diving smaller tanks. This wing is way to much. It will wrap on the sides and air will get stuck causing instablity (if un bungied for cave diving), but on larger tanks, it works a lot better.

I've only had experience with the single tank halycon wings, but they are nice enough.

I would recommend the diverite classic for a very versitally wing.

Hope this helps.

[db8us]

The dump-valves tow-cord on the OMS try to pull themselves open with the bungies.
I have seen this happen 3 times at least in the late 90´s where some of my friends still used the OMS. So they have cut off the cords.
Two rocketed to the surface because of the second bladder beeing inflated accidently by other equipment pressing the inflator.

These days none of them is diving them anymore.
They were quiet popular in germany, but they are almost completly replaced these days by other brands.

[grazie42]

The bungies are easy to use or not use depending on the diving that you are currently doing. When I cave dive with it, I unbungie it. When I dive in OW, I bungie it. Air will stick some in the bladder when bungied, but it is not difficult to manage.
Thanks Kuster500...I have a regular BC for ow diving that I think I´ll continue to use and just dive my (newly aquired) double 15 liter/106cft set with the wing...and good point about practicing diving wth dual inflators...

Doc Intrepid earlier on this thread explained that diving wet you´re pretty much screwed if your wing fails while diving wet with steel cylinders...if you have dual-bladders this wouldnt be that big a problem...dont know if people dive caves wet or wth steels though...maybe he (or someone) else can clarify...


The dump-valves tow-cord on the OMS try to pull themselves open with the bungies.
Huh...didnt know that db8us...Looks like I´ll definetly be diving unbungeed...(will still try it out in controlled conditions though...)

[BigJetDriver]

Folks,

There has long been controversy over the subject of dual bladders, with one or both power inflators attached, or not, as you choose.

I have found an easy way to have both power inflators attached (to separate gas supplies, of course), and to protect oneself from accidental engagement or run-away.

A company called M&J makes a trombone-valve or slide shut-off valve, available from Oxycheq, that is neat, sweet, and bone-stock reliable.

When fitted into the supply line just above the quick disconnect (one on each side), they can be operated in a simple manner.

Keep the one on the active side (whichever you prefer) in the open position, and the other one in the closed position. If the acitve side runs away, from a button stuck in the open position (possible grain of sand), one click shuts it off instantly. Dump the excess gas. Open the other one with one click, and you are back in business.

It is simple, and offers TRUE redundancy. As we know, simple systems that work well are good. And true redundancy IS life, when you are operating in a hostile medium.

Remember, to paraphrase Mr. Natural: "Get the right tool for the diving job, kids!"

P.S.---BWODWDI = Bungied Wings Of Death With Dual Inflators ;)

[TheStroke]

Have recently tried some 100lb double bladder wings with twin 11L. (Alum80's) there was a big problem dumping air especially from the lower dump. I was only using one bladder and had fully emptied the second bladder before diving to make sure. anyone else expeirenced this?

[DutchDown]

BigJetDriver, I was looking at the Oxycheq site for those valves you mentioned and didn't see them. I have a BWODWDI and they sound like a good idea. Where on the site should I look?

Thanks!

Phil

[kuster500]

Have recently tried some 100lb double bladder wings with twin 11L. (Alum80's) there was a big problem dumping air especially from the lower dump. I was only using one bladder and had fully emptied the second bladder before diving to make sure. anyone else expeirenced this?

I've had simalar problems with mine, and it isn't because of your second bladder.

First: This may sound dumb, but make sure you are using the correct dumps only certain dumps work for the paticular bladder.

Second: If you cave configure the main bladder hose, I found that it helped me out imensely as far as getting air out of the BC.

Third: That's really two much wing for those tanks if you are leaving them unbungied. The 100lb wing works much better on the larger tanks because it doesn't wrap around the outside of the tank. Which keeps the air in a position that makes it hard to dump.

Hope this helps.

Ben

[TheStroke]

First: This may sound dumb, but make sure you are using the correct dumps only certain dumps work for the paticular bladder.

- I think so. with wing on my back i was using the left hand inflator hose, the right side was disconected and tucked out of the way (i sucked it empty before the dive) and bottom left side dump. Ie as if it were a normal single bladder configuration.

Second: If you cave configure the main bladder hose, I found that it helped me out imensely as far as getting air out of the BC.

- hows that?

Third: That's really two much wing for those tanks if you are leaving them unbungied. The 100lb wing works much better on the larger tanks because it doesn't wrap around the outside of the tank. Which keeps the air in a position that makes it hard to dump.

- tell me about it, it's not my wing just rental i am trying to figure out what i was doing wrong if anything

[Mike Wellsted]

Dear Doc, Boogie and others

Wow, I hardy expected to start such a furious debate.

Needless to say, may thanks to those of you who made some very useful comments, certainly putting me into a position to make some informed decisions.

I'm just starting to use the OMS system and not yet into the seriously technical diving.

Fortunately many of these matters are still not serious issues for me, but going forward I'll keep your comments in mind and not go off doing something too stupid....

Thanks again

Mike

[O-ring]

...dont know if people dive caves wet or wth steels though...maybe he (or someone) else can clarify...
Generally speaking, this isn't an issue. If you have a wing failure in a cave, you can just crawl out...

[kuster500]

Sounds like you are using the correct dump.

Cave configuring is putting a shorter inflator tube on the primary inflator. To do this, you will have to buy the size of inflator of choice. I put an 18" hose on mine. This shorter inflator tube makes it easier to deflat from the inflator. The OMS wings are nice because they don't have a mechanical linkage of anytype (as with most wings), so all you have to do is replace the tube.

Just remember to put the dump as high as you can by rotating slightly to that side so the air can flow over there, and then dipping your head down.

I'm just trying to give you some options that I found made the use of the wing easier. It may come down to the wing is just to big for those paticular tanks. I've used the wing on double steel 72's, and have had a heck of a time trying to dump air out of them just like you say you are having. You can manage with it if you need to, but I would suggest a smaller wing for those tanks.

Hope this helps.

Ben