Fitness and Panic: split from "Would you buy gear that someone died using?"

Meatghost:

I've been saving to buy my tech gear, and as it turns out, an excellent deal has shown up. It's everything I need, the exact gear I want, the price is right, but the guy who owned it pulled out his reg, bolted from 200+ ft. and died on the surface. I won't say who/where/when out of respect for people here who may have known him.
Thoughts?

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I'd buy the gear especially if it was at a discounted price, just like I'd have no problems buying a house and sleeping in the same room a person was murdered in.

A bit off topic but you've got a trained and certified tech diver, who at 200 feet suddenly panics and bolts to the surface?

What were the precipitating factors, and was he significantly overweight? Because there's a known correlation between being out of shape and being prone to panic.

idocsteve:

What were the precipitating factors, and was he significantly overweight? Because there's a known correlation between being out of shape and being prone to panic.

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Read the forum rules trolling is NOT allowed!!!! This is getting really old.

.....can't say I'd knowingly buy scuba gear involved in a fatality......not superstitious....but it would make me sad diving it and thinking of it's 'history'.......diving is supposed to make me happy.

No way for me

idocsteve:

Because there's a known correlation between being out of shape and being prone to panic.

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Source?

idocsteve:

Because there's a known correlation between being out of shape and being prone to panic.

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I'm not familiar with all of the studies done but a series of studies done in 1983, 1985, 1987 and 1995 failed to prove that exercise can induce a panic attack.

Success was achieved in 2000 by O'Connor, Smith and Morgan who were able to induce a panic attack with exercise but in only one case in 91 attempts.

What HAS apparently been proven time and time again going back all the way to the 1940's is that people who have existing panic disorders tend to avoid physical exercise and that that people with panic disorders tend to be less fit on the whole than a typical cross section of the population.

However, what idocsteve has done is to turn this logic on it's head and say that if you are unfit you are prone to panic attack. THIS, as I noted above, is not true. The existing studies indicate the opposite, that IF you ahve panic disorder, you are probably less fit than the average person.

Idocsteve if A -> B then you can not conclude that B -> A. You should know that.

That said, there are very VERY good reasons for keeping your body fit so just knowing what I said above shouldn't be seen as an affirmation of the couch-potato lifestyle.

R..

Apologies for getting the thread back on track, but I wouldn't have any problem with it, unless the cause of death was associated with the gear itself (well, duh)

I've never (knowingly) bought something that someone was wearing when they dived - although I have bought second-hand gear so who really knows - but I have knowingly worn gear that belonged to someone who died whilst diving (although I have no idea whether they were wearing the same gear at the time or not) and actaully feel quite happy/proud to do so, knowing the person was a great diver who loved diving and - I therefore assume - would have liked the idea that his gear continued to bring people the same joy that he experienced during his diving life

Saspotato:

Source?

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Diver0001:

However, what idocsteve has done is to turn this logic on it's head and say that if you are unfit you are prone to panic attack. THIS, as I noted above, is not true. The existing studies indicate the opposite, that IF you ahve panic disorder, you are probably less fit than the average person.

Idocsteve if A -> B then you can not conclude that B -> A. You should know that.

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"Hyperventilation and panic stress reactions are more likely to occur in the physically unfit. "

From "Medical Fitness for Diving" by Lawrence Martin, M.D. Copyright 1997. Numerous studies are cited at the bottom of the page.

Link HERE

I'd not hesitate at all, as long as the obvious equipment inspection by a factory-trained person has been done.

I see no disrespect or bad karma. Were I to get whacked in a gunfight, I'd be happy to know that someone else carried my M4 or Glock on duty later to carry on.
DS

idocsteve:

From "Medical Fitness for Diving" by Lawrence Martin, M.D. Copyright 1997. Numerous studies are cited at the bottom of the page.

Link HERE

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I don't have time to scan through his sources but that statement is made without any reference to his source and/or study. It's unsupported, uncited..... an opinion as it's written.

I know he knows how to cite his sources because it does it repeatedly in other parts of that article. So it's not an oversight. My reading is that he has no source to support it.

Obviously being unfit is paired with lower exercise tolerance and associated problems but pure exercise induced panic would appear on basis of available scientific studies to be exceptional in the absence of a predisposing condition.... in fit or in unfit individuals. As I said above, O'Connor, Smith and Morgan had to try 91 times before getting a result.

Just reading back I'm not sure you and I are talking about the same thing. I've been arguing that you can't easily induce panic with exercise... but you might be able to put someone in a situation that causes an intermediate condition, like hyperventilation, that *is* strongly associated with panic attacks. The question I would have here, is the same. What's the chicken and what's the egg? with hyperventilation it's not so clearly refuted as with exercise tolerance alone.

Also, I would like to see a study cited that says that unfit individuals who hyperventilate are more susceptible to panic than fit individuals who hyperventilate..... I wouldn't be convinced without seeing a study that you can draw this conclusion, which is, namely illogical in my mind. It may be *easier* to induce hyperventilation in an unfit individual but I don't see that as evidence that you wouldn't get the same result if you forced fit individuals to hyperventilate.

R..