ACUC opinions?

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mazdarules

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I got my Open water throught ACUC, does anyone have any good/bad opinions about them? Someone told me it was the same as NAUI, but I'm not sure. We did use NAUI tables....


Thank you
 
mazdarules once bubbled...
I got my Open water throught ACUC, does anyone have any good/bad opinions about them? Someone told me it was the same as NAUI, but I'm not sure. We did use NAUI tables....
ACUC rocks =-) like most of the other agencies, if you had a good instructor you are all set, go diving!

I did my Snorkel3 through them when I was young and did my OW, Ice Diver, Advanced Rescue, and Teaching Assistant through ACUC and my AOW, and Master Diver (Pending) are through NAUI. Although ACUC doesn't have the numbers that PADI, NAUI, etc have my ACUC cards have always been accepted wherever I wanted to dive.

I am suprised you used NAUI tables since ACUC produces their own set of air tables based on the DCIEM tables.
 
watermonkey once bubbled...

ACUC rocks =-) like most of the other agencies, if you had a good instructor you are all set, go diving!


I think that agencies do make a difference, and that both ACUC and PADI have real differences. I also doubt that I'll be taking many more courses from either.

I initially certified with the YMCA--a wonderfully rigorous course, but in another age!-- in 1968. Then, because I'd had little chance to dive, again through a fairly rigorous course with ACUC, as the Association of Canadian Underwater Councils in 1981. In 2002, because two decades had elapsed and I jpoined my daughter (12) and my wife in the ACUC, now the American-Canadian Underwater Certification Agencies) OW course through Saskatoon's Triton Diving Club.

The fees were very reasonable because Ariel was a junior and I was re-certifying, and the amount of instruction per dollar was very generous. However, while most of the course was solid, there were some real gaps and blunders.

We both benefitted and suffered from team teaching. One instructor so badly mis-explained dive tables that that whole section had to be re-taught. Another gave interesting, but meandering presentations of the marine environment and its potential joys and hazards. Another generally taught well but absolutely rigidly.

The pool training was impressive in inculcating basic skills. Exercises in swimming skills, learning snorkelling skills, donning and doffing equipment, swimming blind, etc were impressively thorough, but sometimes almost obsessive. On the one hand, great patience was shown in helping my wife (a concert pianist) overcome ear problems and anxieties. On the other, there was one crazy night of the whole class, including my wife, who has back problems, and I, who had had surgery a few months before, repeatedly climb out of the pool in full equipment and do entry after entry from a diving board. (Of course, we could probably have refused, but did- *just* manage). And, unfortunately, real work on correct weighting and really thorough review of buoyancy control were almost lost in that shuffle.

We did the OW portion in Saskatchewan's frigid Lac au Claire in June 2002. It was pretty rigorous, and sometimes ridiculous. For example, 12 year old Ariel was task-loade with a controlled ascent along a line (one hand "walking" up the line) while buddy-breathing with a shared regulator (other hand transferring the reg back and forth, and checking the rate of ascent the rental instrument console (third hand)???, all in murky, freezing water.

That September, I headed north after a gruelling week at work, arriving close to midnight at the frigid Whiteswan lake, to try the ACUC Advanced OW. The next morning was such a nightmare: sleeplessness, an ill-fitting rental wetsuit, insecure weight belt, hypothermia and struggles with a just-bought-from-Ebay BC that, while I later recovered enough to succed at all other skills, (navigation, search and recovery, night dive) I agreed not to attempt the deep dive.

In December, we went to Cuba, for some fantastic diving off the Isla de la Juventud and Playa Giron, during which we all went well below 100 feet with no problem. This summer Ariel and I both got used drysuits, and after a couple of local lake sessions with a wonderfully helpful local PADI instructor the family went diving in BC' (Sechelt Inlet, Egmont, Quadra Island with only minor problems on coldwater ocean dives to 100 feet or so.

Recently, Ariel, now 14, and I completed the PADI Advanced course. We both paid well for the course and text and while we appreciated the preparatory pool and a classroom session, we couldn't help but notice how laid back, and undemanding both were, and how "green" the other participants seemed.

The subsequent two days of dive briefings and diving reinforced this impression. In addition top the six or seven Adavance OW trainees, there were also a dozern or so PADI examinees completing their PADI OW course on the same boat. We shared the impression that both groups generally seemed less inculcated with basic diving skills than our ACUC "classmates" had been.

I had to note for example both of our buddies failed to help with such awkward items as drysuit hoses, or even real inspection of our equipment, and seemed surprised when we helped them. And these were supposedly "advanced" divers.
On the other hand, the pace was much more patient, and the instructors were generally more relaxed and easygoing, and much quicker to step in and help, than what we had been used to in ACUC.

ACUC seems to benefit from a--sometimes too--strong training ethic, and to suffer from a weak infrastructure and lack of effective control and standardization. PADI seems to have too much of both, and to be too commercially focussed on routine processing people through an almost endless series of courses which increasingly break down the comprehensive set of skills needed for safe diving.

Ariel and I may encourage my wife to also take the Advanced course, because training, even repeat training, is always helpful, but mainly for the widely recogized piece of photo ID certification it produces. We may even keep her company by doing the Rescue Diver course with PADI at the same time.

However, we will likely be looking for other agencies to acquire further courses, especially in such risky areas as technical diving.

erich keser
saskatoon, canada
 
Sounds like you were onto a winner there with ACUC.
I have to be honest I have never heard of them, but if the course was a good as it sounds, who cares!
Solid grounding in the basics is essential and if the "over-thoroughness" of the training was a little grating on the mind, body and soul, it does not really matter, as you are through it.

I have always thought that if the environment in which you train is cold, dark and strenuous, then a little more time should be given to get the important things right - bouyancy, equipment familiarity and dive planning.

Congrats on finding a "on-the-ball" agency
 
Since nobody has said it yet I suppose I can...

Choice in instructor is more important than agency.

Everyone slams padi all the time but I've seen padi instructors that teach a course that is better than some naui instructors. Don't blame an agency for seemingly sub-par skills, blame the instructor (and possibly the individual).

erich - From your post it sounds like you may have been a little unprepared/green yourself for your first AOW with ACUC. Is it fair to critisize the padi divers in their attempt at attaining AOW when you took it for the second time? Just a thought.

I don't believe buddy breathing is a standard that is taught by any agency anymore (I could be wrong on this - not for padi & naui for sure) and there are reasons why, whether you agree with them or not. I would think that if your daughter was taught buddy breathing, especially on ascent, that the instructor was teaching above the minimum standards... Certainly not a bad thing at times.

Tell me more about Cuba. I'm very interested in going there. Where did you stay? How was the diving etc.
 
bridgediver:
Since nobody has said it yet I suppose I can...

Choice in instructor is more important than agency.

Everyone slams padi all the time but I've seen padi instructors that teach a course that is better than some naui instructors. Don't blame an agency for seemingly sub-par skills, blame the instructor (and possibly the individual).

erich - From your post it sounds like you may have been a little unprepared/green yourself for your first AOW with ACUC.

Very much so. I'd just received the BC I was using a few days before and was in very poor shape for the first morning dive. I'd had an exhausting work week, and arrived near midnight the night before the dive, after a 3 hour night drive along dirt roads in driving rain, to find myself having to share a bed as well as a cabin and room, and thus sleeping poorly. I made breakfast for the whole bunch, and then we all had to pitch in to help load a skiff in wind and pouring rain. I was diving in a badly fitting rental wetsuit in cold, murky water. I lost my weighbelt on jumping in, and by the time that was recovered and I submerged, my hands (and brain!) were so numb that I couldn't find the single dump and was having a hard time using the buttons on my BC in the thick rental mitts. After this dive, I was shivering uncontrollably. There were plenty of divemasters and instructors close by at all times, so there was probably no real danger, but it was a thoroughly miserable experience that illustrates the worst aspects of many club and non-profit programs: spartan facilities, ad-hoc planning and a sometimes overzealous approach.

bridgediver:
Is it fair to criticize the padi divers in their attempt at attaining AOW when you took it for the second time? Just a thought.

Yes, I think that it is. We did it for *further training*, and not to collect badges. Slick but superficial books and courses do deserve to be criticized. My daughter, a discrete but sharp little so-and-so, quietly noted some the difficulties one and then another of the PADI instructors were having in such areas as buoyancy control, kicking up the muck and ending up with too much water in their BC's. They weren't quite the examples they should be. PADI does have some excellent intructors, but seems to move a little too quickly in certifying some others. A week or two course after a hundred dives and a year of experience may sometimes not be enough (...but how many do they fail, with that $2000 price tag?)

And the BUDDY conduct of some of the other PADI-trained divers definitely *needs* to be commented on: it was potentially dangerous. Some of the time, we might as well have been diving solo, and that *is not* appropriate, after (then) only two dozen previous (recent in my case) dives.

bridgediver:
I don't believe buddy breathing is a standard that is taught by any agency anymore (I could be wrong on this - not for padi & naui for sure) and there are reasons why, whether you agree with them or not. I would think that if your daughter was taught buddy breathing, especially on ascent, that the instructor was teaching above the minimum standards... Certainly not a bad thing at times.

Obviously sharing air should be taught...and probably buddy-breathing alongside it. Air-sharing is a basic part of the whole buddy system, and from the way auxillary regs sometimes get dragged through the muck, it may be necessary to share a reg, too. It's especially essential for the unfortunate partners of air-hogs ;-/, like my daughter (she has had to domate some of the gas she uses so frugally...but only once, and I did have 3-400 psi left).

bridgediver:
Tell me more about Cuba. I'm very interested in going there. Where did you stay? How was the diving etc.

It's a safe and wonderful place to travel and dive. Please see my posts (just search for CUBA and by my monicker =erichK)
 
mazdarules:
I got my Open water throught ACUC, does anyone have any good/bad opinions about them? Someone told me it was the same as NAUI, but I'm not sure. We did use NAUI tables....


Thank you


O/W & Assistant Instructors with ACUC - a very professional bunch who are seriously dedicated to u/w education. The A.I. program in particular was quite rigorous.

My one concern is that an ACUC card may not be known in some parts of the planet, potentially causing you some grief.
I'd check into it the possibility.

Regards,
D.S.D.
 
ACUC does seem to be fairly well known in the Caribbean and in some of Europe, but it might be a good plan to do the PADI "advanced" to get their slick photo ID card, and the bit of extra training that it supplies, as daughter Ariel and I did.




DeepSeaDan:
O/W & Assistant Instructors with ACUC - a very professional bunch who are seriously dedicated to u/w education. The A.I. program in particular was quite rigorous.

My one concern is that an ACUC card may not be known in some parts of the planet, potentially causing you some grief.
I'd check into it the possibility.

Regards,
D.S.D.
 
erichK:
My daughter, a discrete but sharp little so-and-so, quietly noted some the difficulties one and then another of the PADI instructors were having in such areas as buoyancy control, kicking up the muck and ending up with too much water in their BC's. They weren't quite the examples they should be. PADI does have some excellent intructors, but seems to move a little too quickly in certifying some others. A week or two course after a hundred dives and a year of experience may sometimes not be enough (...but how many do they fail, with that $2000 price tag?)

I believe that I've seen instructors from all (rec-)agencies, who would share the unfortunate characteristic you describe. I've also seen really excellent instructors from all (rec-)agencies. All it proves to me is, that it's generally wrong to generalize :)

As for how many they fail at a $2000 price-tag.....I assume that "they" are PADI? The IE -- the final exam conducted by PADI HQ appointed examiners -- probably has a relatively high pass-rate (although I've seen people fail): prior to the IE, succesfull completion of the OWSI programme is required -- and I know plenty of CD's (course directors -- them guys who train PADI instructors), who do rutinely tell their students that they've not completed the OWSI programme to satisfaction and, therefore, need more training prior to the IE. Often, this is in form of following a second OWSI, or something -- that depends on the CD and the shop. So while the "filter" isn't the final exam (the IE), and that as such "they" (PADI) may not fail that many candidates, there still is a filter....

Just for clarification....

And the BUDDY conduct of some of the other PADI-trained divers definitely *needs* to be commented on: it was potentially dangerous. Some of the time, we might as well have been diving solo, and that *is not* appropriate, after (then) only two dozen previous (recent in my case) dives.

Obviously sharing air should be taught...and probably buddy-breathing alongside it. Air-sharing is a basic part of the whole buddy system, and from the way auxillary regs sometimes get dragged through the muck, it may be necessary to share a reg, too.

I agree. I always teach buddy-skills, including (but not limited to) "helping you buddy", "being attentive to your buddy before, throughout, and after the dive" as well as "buddy-breathing" and other usefull buddy/team-skills to my students. I believe that PADI also emphasizes this, but it's of course unfortunate if some instructors (from any agency -- SDI solo-diving instructors excluded *grin*) neglect that.

It's especially essential for the unfortunate partners of air-hogs ;-/, like my daughter (she has had to domate some of the gas she uses so frugally...but only once, and I did have 3-400 psi left).

Hmm.....sharing air should not ever be a way to "extend the dive time", but a way to egress a diver safely from depth due to some (equipment) malfunction. In this context, a "malfunction" does not include "bad gas planning" and "not looking at the SPG frequently enough to know when you hit the turn-preasure"....
 
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