Gear required for Dirf

[Grajan]

Sorry if this has been covered but I could not find it....

Will I be allowed to do the Dirf course with the following gear?

Seaquest Balance (minimalist back inflate)
Avanti Fins (OK I'll put my Atomic splits away for a few days)
7' hose & bungeed backup reg setup (Apeks)
Wetsuit (Texas or nearby)
Suunto Cobra in gauge mode

I will be happy to listen politely to critiques of above but I've heard them all and, in the end, I'm the customer and I like my rig.

just want to know if I am going to be 'allowed' in.

Thanks

[docmartin]

bad news: i believe they won't let you in the water with the seaquest. check out the link with the gear requirements (2.1.10):



http://www.gue.com/classroom/standards/2/1.shtml

[cornfed]

Grajan once bubbled...
Sorry if this has been covered but I could not find it....

Will I be allowed to do the Dirf course with the following gear?

Seaquest Balance (minimalist back inflate)
Avanti Fins (OK I'll put my Atomic splits away for a few days)
7' hose & bungeed backup reg setup (Apeks)
Wetsuit (Texas or nearby)
Suunto Cobra in gauge mode

I will be happy to listen politely to critiques of above but I've heard them all and, in the end, I'm the customer and I like my rig.

just want to know if I am going to be 'allowed' in.

Thanks

I doubt you will.

Certainly you can use some of them, ie wetsuit, your regs(your supposed to have a long hose) and probably even your fins. Here is my take on the matter. DIR-F is designed, like the name implies, teach you the fundamentals of DIR diving. One aspect of this is the gear configuration. You can debate about the gear requirements but that doesn't change the fact that they are part of what makes up the DIR system.

If you don't want to buy gear (BP&Wings, etc) just for the class then talk to the instructor or shop hosting the class about renting it.

Cornfed

[Grajan]

Seems a little pedantic to me - Back inflate is back inflate.

Anyway - one less thing to worry about. There are plenty of other ways to improve skills.

[jonnythan]

Grajan once bubbled...
Seems a little pedantic to me - Back inflate is back inflate.

I used to think the same thing.

[Big-t-2538]

To be totally honest, I think it is more of an instructor thing if they will 'let you in'.

As for the cert, I know that you will not be able to 'pass' unless you are in the required gear.

IMHO I don't think it should be a requirement to have the specific gear just to take the class....there is a lot to be learned from it, regardless of your gear config, and having different gear is good for in-class discussion.

[herman]

Grajan once bubbled...
Seems a little pedantic to me - Back inflate is back inflate.


You are required to use a BP/wing but my instructor brought along some loaners, I suspect yours will also if you just ask. I did not have one and was not about to buy one just for the class. The rest of your gear looks ok. Without a canister light or pocket the 7ft hose is a little bit of a PITA, a 5ft works a lot better for me. Either is ok for the class.

I agree with your statement above, the BP was the only thing in the class I was not impressed with. For serious tech diving, it's the way to go but for general single tank rec diving I was not impressed.

[cornfed]

herman once bubbled...

Without a canister light or pocket the 7ft hose is a little bit of a PITA, a 5ft works a lot better for me. Either is ok for the class.


If you have your knife one your weight belt you can run it under that.

Cornfed

[Grajan]

I tried the 5' but did not like the routing. I keep my SMB in the Balance pocket where the canister light would go and this secures my long hose in exactly the same way.

The SQ Balance is effectively a BP/wing. The BP is plastic but otherwise the only 'significant' difference are the position of the 'D' rings and plastic buckles. It has almost no padding.

Given that I can see no DirF activities that would be compromised by this rig, the extraordinarily narrow course requirements seem to smack of either religious zeal or commercial intent. This puts me off the whole thing so I guess I will need to go elsewhere for my training.

I guess the problem is that DIRf is geared to people who want to do overhead diving whereas I just want to do warm water reef diving REALLY well and am looking for a little flexibility.

There is probably money to be made running a slightly less 'gear fixated' course for people like me.

[Big-t-2538]

Yeah, the 5 foot wouldn't come close to routing around my fat arse....7 foot routes nicely with a few inches tucked in the waistband of the harness.

As for the training....talk to one of the instructors who is going to be teaching a DIR-F in your area...you seem to be fixated on the gear issue. Forget about the gear, the class is all about your skills. The video reviews alone are worth the price of the class. And the instructors should hold a PH.D. in diving knowledge....thier passion for the sport is unparalleled.

[Grajan]

I think it's a moot point who has the gear fixation.....

But.... I have spent a long time (and a lot of money) getting a rig setup that I really like and the idea of using a different rig to train in is not really appealing.

This is no big deal. By current standards I am probably already over-trained for the type of diving I plan to do.

I will talk to the Discover Scuba guys and discuss this but I'm not going to lose sleep over it - plenty of other things to learn (planning to start my yachtmaster certs this summer).

[cornfed]

You'll have to excuse me but I took the liberty of combining two of your messages...


Grajan once bubbled...
Seems a little pedantic to me - Back inflate is back inflate.

Anyway - one less thing to worry about. There are plenty of other ways to improve skills.


Grajan latter bubbled...

I tried the 5' but did not like the routing. I keep my SMB in the Balance pocket where the canister light would go and this secures my long hose in exactly the same way.

The SQ Balance is effectively a BP/wing. The BP is plastic but otherwise the only 'significant' difference are the position of the 'D' rings and plastic buckles. It has almost no padding.

Given that I can see no DirF activities that would be compromised by this rig, the extraordinarily narrow course requirements seem to smack of either religious zeal or commercial intent. This puts me off the whole thing so I guess I will need to go elsewhere for my training.

I guess the problem is that DIRf is geared to people who want to do overhead diving whereas I just want to do warm water reef diving REALLY well and am looking for a little flexibility.

There is probably money to be made running a slightly less 'gear fixated' course for people like me.[/B]

In all honesty I think you're really missing the point. The DIR-F class is not simply designed to teach you how to be a better differ. It's designed to expose you to the DIR style and prepare you for further GUE classes. It has nothing to do with "religious zeal". And frankly, the argument for commercial motivation behind the gear requirements has been shot down many times. In fact it was dealt with again just recently.

Before a bought my BP&Wings I dove with a SQ Balance. There are significant differences. There is a far greater range of adjustment with the BP which results in a better fit. Also the weight distribution of the BP is much better than is possible with the Balance or similar B.

In the end you're right, there are other "less 'gear fixated'" courses and your time would be better spent seeking them out then making (what I feel) are unfounded criticisms of this course.

Cornfed

[sasdasdaf]

Why don't you give your potential instructor a call and ask him/her? That would settle it once and for all.

[WJL]

Grajan once bubbled...
I have spent a long time (and a lot of money) getting a rig setup that I really like and the idea of using a different rig to train in is not really appealing.
....


This is a real problem when you have a lot of time and money involved in anything - change is not appealing. Maybe just try out the bp/wings before ebaying your current rig? It could be you'll like the bp/wing setup better.

If you go through the class you'll get a (very) detailed explanation for why GUE thinks the bp/wings rig is optimal, even for openwater reef diving.

[Grajan]

Your assumption that I am some 'dive pup' who just needs to try a BP wing and I will ebay my rig is hilarious :D .

I have been diving since the seventies - did it (semi) professionally for a couple of years. Did stuff in the early days that would make your hair curl - with very basic gear - NO BC.

Based on this 'little' experience I chose my new gear very carefully for the type of diving I plan to do. In that process I took a good look at the BP wing and decided that it was unnecessarily 'butch' for carribean reefs.

For me (I stress 'for me' I'm not interested in starting yet another debate on this one) - The SQ Balance provides the same functionality (back inflate - v low profile - little padding) as the BP wing with a number of advantages in terms of comfort and simplicity of donning etc. I have adopted the DIR hose config because it makes sense - for me.

So - I am happy that I have the right rig for the diving I plan to do. I don't plan to ebay it and I don't plan to train in a different rig. so I will just have to pass on DirF.

As cornfed makes clear - they sure don't need me.

[BigJetDriver]

Big-t-2538 once bubbled...
And the instructors should hold a PH.D. in diving knowledge....their passion for the sport is unparalleled.

I would preface my remarks with this one statement: "Quality training is ALWAYS worth the effort!" All of us can always learn something from others.

I would have to disagree with the statement that their passion for the sport is "un-paralelled" because, by strict definition that means that no one else in the diving world reaches their level of passion for the sport. After over thirty years of diving, and about half of that spent teaching, I would have to respectfully disagree. There are other agencies whose instructors "hold Ph.D.'s in diving" and who are extremely passionate about the sport.

As for the gear "issue", as an Instructor Trainer I would have to simply point out that, for any given course, the training agency has the right to specify exactly what equipment will be used in each course, and to require that students hold to that restriction. This holds true for IANTD, TDI, ANDI, GUE, or any other training agency for that matter.

Different agencies are more general in their equipment requirements for some courses than are others, while in yet another set of courses they may be even more restrictive.

As for choosing one's personal equipment, one of our writers (Caveseeker7) quotes the great explorer Sheck Exley: "What works, works!" My own personal dive guru, Frans Vandermolen (International Advisory Board Member for IANTD), said: "You need to carefully evaluate your reason for choosing a particular configuration. Having made your decision, you need to test it rigorously. If it does what you want reliably and well, then it is right for you."

[cornfed]

Grajan once bubbled...

I have been diving since the seventies - did it (semi) professionally for a couple of years.

Semi-professional? Is that like a DM where they pay you like **** but give you good discounts on gear? :D

[Grajan]

More like all the diving I could handle and food. :rolleyes:

It was a great deal for me because I had a lot of fun and they trained me really well.

I definitely saw (see) diving as a lifestyle thing - never a career.

It did lead me (circuitously) into underwater robotics, where I have managed to make a good living ever since.

[BigJetDriver]

cornfed once bubbled...


Semi-professional? Is that like a DM where they pay you like **** but give you good discounts on gear? :D :D

Obviously, "Cornfed" has been around the patch for a while and knows how it works in the field!

Likewise "Grajan"s comment:

They did not even sell gear!
More like all the diving I could handle and food.

It was a great deal for me because I had a lot of fun and they trained me really well.

I definitely saw (see) diving as a lifestyle thing - never a career.


Remember, kids! "If you want to make a small fortune in the diving industry, start with a larger one!"=-)

[cornfed]

Grajan once bubbled...
As cornfed makes clear - they sure don't need me.

I don't recall saying that.

[Grajan]

"In the end you're right, there are other "less 'gear fixated'" courses and your time would be better spent seeking them out then making (what I feel) are unfounded criticisms of this course."

I agree by the way.

[SeaJay]

Grajan once bubbled...
...there are other "less 'gear fixated'" courses and your time would be better spent seeking them out then making (what I feel) are unfounded criticisms of this course."


I found in my DIR-F course that they couldn't have cared less what sort of gear I dove with. In my course, I dove a borrowed plastic bp with a Halcyon 27 lb. wing, a wetsuit and a single AL80. I rented my regs - I think they were the baseline Aqualungs.

At the end of the course, I traded some rental gear and instead dove a Scubapro Glide BC and used a weight belt. This was a jacket-style BC.

The entire time I used my Mares Avanti Quattros... I was mildly successful with a backwards kick, too.

Yes, we did go over gear... And I found out why they prefer a bp/wings to the gear I was diving. I challenged them time after time with questions, and got real answers. By the end of the weekend, I envied those who dove with Jet fins. If this doesn't make sense to you, that's okay... It wouldn't have made sense to me either unless I'd taken the course.

The bottom line is that I learned a lot, and took with me a whole slew of new skills. It was a very positive experience.

I recommend the course highly... But I completely disagree with the idea that GUE (and thus DIR) is "gear fixated."

Sorry, man... They simply weren't pushing any sort of gear whatsoever. Instead they were pushing skills... Which was awesome. I learned a lot.

I can understand how DIR-F would be less than attractive... It was definitely the hardest class for me to date. Nonetheless, it was also my most valuable, and I would recommend it - with or without the "right gear."

I had no canister light, and no long hose. I took the course anyway... They never even hiccupped.

My recommendation would be to show some interest in the course - that is, if you have any interest whatsoever - and ask the instructor if it's okay to show up with what you already own. I think the answer would surprise you.

On the other hand, if you're that willing to give up on the course anyway, then perhaps it isn't for you.

Nobody said that everyone had to get *that serious* about diving, anyway.

[cornfed]

Grajan once bubbled...
"In the end you're right, there are other "less 'gear fixated'" courses and your time would be better spent seeking them out then making (what I feel) are unfounded criticisms of this course."


Right, but that still doesn't mean what you said it does.

Cornfed

[Big-t-2538]

BigJetDriver69 once bubbled...

I would have to disagree with the statement that their passion for the sport is "un-paralelled" because, by strict definition that means that no one else in the diving world reaches their level of passion for the sport. After over thirty years of diving, and about half of that spent teaching, I would have to respectfully disagree. There are other agencies whose instructors "hold Ph.D.'s in diving" and who are extremely passionate about the sport.


O.K...point well taken...in my limited expericence of diving compared to yours (4 years) I haven't met someone (yet) with that amount of experience combined with the passion they had.

The instructors I work with on a regular basis have a passion for diving that is very very high....they just don't have the experience and diving knowledge that the GUE instructors I met have. None of them (the instructors I work with) have ever done decompression or cave dives, or know how to do helicopter turns and back-up kicks. These are all things that I learned and hopefully can broaden the base of knowledge & skills we show our students in BOW.

The beauty of holding a PH.D is that virtually every one of them knows that it is a license to continue to learn, research, evaluate, and test...at least the good ones realize that. There are certainly other instructors out there that fall into this category.

[bradyr]

my wife and I just competed the DIR-F class two weeks ago. I highly recommend it, as was stated earlier, the reviews of the video of your performance was well worth the time.

My wife and my normal dive equipement is not DIR spec. I dive a SQ Balance and she dives a SQ Libra. Although I diving in the puget sound, I don't dive a drysuit, we're both still diving a 7mm wet suit. I dive a cobra AI computer instead of a brass SPG. We do have long hoses on our Mares M16 Axis regs and since our OW instructor was a DIR diver, we were actually taught from the very begining some DIR concepts like donating the reg in our mouth.

My instructor required that we dive a BP/Wings and set us up with a rental halcyon. It was a bit of a hassle, and we were actually not looking forward to that part at all.

Since the class I won't say I've become a BP/Wings convert. (some of that has to do with cost, as I can't see spending more money to replace my almost new gear already) But I do completly understand why it was better for all of us in the class to be diving the recommended DIR configuration for the class. And I did come away with a great respect for this configuration. If I was buying equipment again, I would seriously consider a BP/Wings.

The purpose of the DIR-F class is to familarize you with the concepts of DIR and one of those concepts is the gear configuration. It's much easier to teach and for us to understand why DIR recommends a particular config if we try it.

Having said that, my instructor isn't trying to force me to change. If I ask her opinion on how I should do something, she believes in DIR and would clearly recommend that I do it that way. And she explains to me why.

However, she isn't refusing to be my dive buddy or telling me I'm doing it wrong because I don't have all my gear up to speed. The impression I got was that as an instructor she wanted me to understand why I would have more trouble with some aspect of diving with my current gear configuration.

For example, even though we dove with BP/Wings, we used our regs. since my computer/depth gauge was on my hose instead of my arm, I had one more thing to worry about doing the controlled asent/desent drills than those who had it on their arm. Mine worked and I'm not going to throw mine out, but I do see how much easier it was to causually glance at my right wrist while venting my BC with my right hand then it was to have to unclip my computer on the left side, pull it over to my right hand, etc. Next time I need a computer, I'll be getting a wrist model.

I do understand why many who read the DIR books think it's a fundementalist cult. But they really aren't (although some DIR divers may very well take things to the extreme) The purpose of the class is to explain why DIR wants things done a certain way.

You can choose not to follow it, you can believe everything they say isn't necessary, but they do have very well though out reasons for what they teach. They aren't just silly rules.

but having said that, DIR won't excommunicate you if your equipment configuration isn't fully DIR. They just feel there configuration is better.

Bradyr

[SeaJay]

Bravo, Bradr!

As has been said in the past, DIR seems to most to be more of a journey than a destination.

When you see one of the instructors employ all of the equipment, skills, techniques, and recommendations, it's easy to see how good diving can be.

Getting to that point is where most of us "DIR types" really are.

Welcome to the "cult." Lol... :D

As I've said before to anyone I dive with... Dive what you like best... Then I do my best to be on my best behavior and watch them. If they have a skill I haven't seen before, then I ask questions and try their techniques... And I offer the same in return.

Heck, I've only been to one DIR-F course, which I felt I did horrible in. But I have to (painfully) admit that it was quite an eye-opener, and my diving has progressed significantly because of it.

Nice post.