Close call...

[Diver Joe]

Spent this past week in Kingston diving with my buddy Frank from Halifax. We dove a couple of times each day Mon to Fri and had an excellent week of diving.

We did however have one close call that I feel is worth reporting.

On Wed evening, we conducted our third dive of the day, a night dive on the Wolfe Islander.

At approx 13 min into the dive, at the main deck level, I notice Frank checking his SPG and shaking his head as if there was a problem. He looked somewhat puzzled and then pointed to his gauge... I took a look, the computer looked fine and the SPG showed lots of Gas...

I did not recognize the problem and gave him the WTF look/shrug and he again pointed to the SPG.... Indicating that there was some sort of problem.

"Well Frank, I don't know what your problem is buddy, here's a Thumbs-UP, I'm calling the dive."

Frank acknowledges with a "Ah ****" Thumbs UP and a Nod of the head. We proceed forward towards the Up Line...I keep Frank Close to my side and at one point take his arm to say this way and to keep him moving as he is still checking his SPG and shaking his head.

In a Flash!!!...Frank is in my face and he is reaching for my short hose Reg. Oh Oh! He get's the Reg without difficulty and is breathing it a little on the heavy side, but not in a paniced state...

I give him about 30 sec's, and give a few reassuring pats on the shoulders.... MY short hose is still bungeed around my neck, so we are very much stuck face to face, I tap the Reg in His mouth then my own and then point my finger back and forth between the two regs, indicating that we should switch...He nods and the switch is done...

Frank now has my long hose...but we still have a problem, that being that when I gave him the long hose, it somehow became entangled with my bungee on the short hose Reg. We are still entangled face to face at depth and in darkness. Our lights were bobbing about and provided enough light. We were breathing and did not panic, thank God.

I reached down do my calf and pulled my knife and in a few strokes cut the bungee.... I quickly decided to dump the knife and tossed it to the deck of the ship.

Frank actually started to move towards retreiving the knife...I gave him a little tap and indicated to leave it and gave him the Thumbs Up again.... He nodded..... I started towards the bow and up line but quickly realized that Frank was going for a direct open water ascent... I was not in favor of this as we had overcome the entanglement and were now in a recovered position as far as I was concerned.

In order to avoid any further confusion I decided to go with Frank's call for the short route to the surface. Problem now...getting my light onto my Computer to monitor the ascent while dumping from my Wings...Problem was that my UK D8 was to bright and I could not read the screen.... Went to my smaller back up light and I saw 40ft in what I thought to be a too quickly and dumped air as fast as possible... We went Negative and recovered at 55ft...

Thumbs UP...Lets try again....This time I didn't bother to look at the computer.... Dumped a little air when I felt it was required and made sure that my breathing was relaxed/open....

It was a great relief to break the surface.....We both felt okay and swam to the Buoy and decended on the line to 20ft for approx 10min...

We surfaced and Frank was still not aware of what the problem was...He shouted What The F.... I asked what was the problem and he said that he didn't know or didn't understand....His SPG was stuck or something because at 15 min into the dive the Gague had not moved any.... this was what he was trying to point out to me.....

After I had called the dive and as we proceeded towards the upline....he could tell that he was on the last couple of breaths of air in his tank....but the SPG still said full.....At this point he was about to switch to his pony bottle...but when he checked the Pony's SPG...the damm this was empty... What the hell is going on????!!!

Frank then continued with his WTF is going on.....He said that he had checked and that Pony was full before he went into the water.

I pointed out that his problem was that he must have been breathing his Pony bottle for the entire dive and that is why he found it to be empty and that's why his main SPG still showed full.

All Frank could say was NO!!!! I can't believe it..... We traced his bungeed/necklaced Reg back and sure enough...it ran back to his main tank... In the darkness when getting dressed on the boat he had mistakenly necklaced his main Reg and entered the water breathing off his Pony...

We did bubble checks and looked each other over on both of our earlier dives that day....But did not for this dive... Frank helped me into my doubles and I splashed in....He got into his BC and splashed in...gave the Okay and we proceeded down the line...

We went back early the next morning and retrieved my knife.

We relearned a few lessons here....Were very lucky and will certainly take closer closer look at each other in the future.

Please make sure that you/your buddy is breathing the correct Reg. And give each other that good look over before heading down the line.

[DivingGal]

I for one am glad everything ended safely -- I'd hate to loose one of my dive buddies!

As you indicated, no matter how many dive you have under your belt, you should always do a buddy check to make sure everything is ok with each other's setup... you just never know when it can save your life.

[UpperCanDiver]

Good to hear nobody was hurt.

Another good reason why the reg and SPG of a pony bottle should be left on the tank( not attached to BCD or neck), attached to the left hand side in a standard configuration and location.

Simplicity and standardization leads to safety and comfort.

[DA Aquamaster]

I dive with independent doubles and on the negative side both the second stages are D400's. However one has a large yellow hose protector next to the second stage with a matching hose protector on its SPG (which is also clippped on the right side which is a clue that the yellow reg goes to the right tank as well).

This makes both second stages visually and tactilely different and ensures the second stages and SPG's "match" to eliminate the type of confusion that occurred here. It's good to know where the gas you are breathing is actually coming from and to be able to confirm this at anytime during the dive.

Any other stage or deco bottles that I may use have different model second stages (Balanced Adjustables) bungeed to the tank itself to avoid confusion.

Using physically different second stages on redundant systems is a good idea either by having different model second stages or by altering both their look AND feel in some fashion.

I don't entirely agree with leaving the reg and SPG for a pony bottle on the tank. When I dove with a pony, it was back mounted had an SPG clipped to my right side. This allows the diver to actually see what is in the pony at any time and in the case mentioned above, the diver would have probably figured out what was happening the first time he looked at the SPG for his pony.

In my opinion, if you back mount a pony, it needs an SPG that you can actually see. If however you sling your pony as a stage bottle, then I agree the reg and SPG need to be left on the tank

[Diver Joe]

Was out with Frank today and he picked up materials to sling his Pony vice Back mount.

We have already discussed various means of Marking his Regs...

We were lucky that things turned out as well as they did...They certainly could not have gotten much worst.

Keeping cool headed was the one thing that we had going for us....Were certainaly not impressed with our Goof/Screw-UP!!!!
But it was an eye opener of how fast a good dive can turn to crap......Also a reminder as to the importance of a Buddy... We both dive solo on occasion... In fact we both dove the MARSH solo that morning.

Perhaps ...others will take heed and avoid putting themselves in the same situation. Again...give each other a good looking over and keep an eye on each other throughout the dive.

Safe and Happy Diving

[Kevin R]

**'s like this is why I dive DIR and only DIR.

They are also why we will judiciously exercise Rule #1.

Before you jump on your keyboard and reply, look through the DIR fundamentals manual and see if the answer to each of the problems mentioned in the opening post are not adressed.


:doctor:

Kevin

[MarcHall]

Good to hear you guys survived.

A few points.

1. Yours is a perfect example of why I don't add the complexity and hassle of a pony bottle to my system.

I do monitor my gas supply and I always have enough gas to get my buddy and I to the surface with a controlled ascent. If I reach that limit then its thumbs up and we do a direct controlled ascent to the surface.

I always dive with a buddy so if I were to have a failure with my gas supply, my backup is my buddy's long hose. My buddy also has a brain which is useful as it was for you guys when the buddy thumbed the dive. (Good decision !!) I have yet to see any gear company marketing an intelligent pony bottle.

If I am doing overhead or deeper dives then I use a properly rigged set of doubles with an isolator valve and 2 regs.

2. My buddies and I normally do full on Out of Air drills at least on a weekly basis.
Its one of the skills we practice on a weekly Thursday night skills dive. Skills such as OOA need to be practiced. With that practice your buddy would have gone for the long hose in your mouth rather then the necklace regulator.

3. Assuming you breath the long hose, the most likely reason the long hose got caught in the bungie necklace is that the necklace regulator was donned after the long hose was. Prior to the descent on every dive we do a modified S-drill where the long hose is fully deployed to verify that it can be deployed when needed.

Again good to hear you both survived.

Take care

Marc Hall
www.enjoythedive.com

[teamplayer]

Kevin,

What does ** mean?

What is rule #1 and who's rule is it?

Who are the "we" you speak for?

The DIR fundamental manual must be great but could you address(if you feel your qualified) the situation of the first post?

hope you don't mind a newbie jumping on their keyboard and asking questions?

Thanks
teamplayer

[Diver Joe]

I have read the Dir manual and it is full of wonderful info... But most divers do not dive according to DIR.

My post is there just as a reminder that "stuff" can and does happen...and we all need to take care. I'm sure that you will agree that an error such as breathing the wrong Reg has resulted in the loss of a few good divers.

My post is there to say...Hey we screwed up and this is how....In the hopes that it might help someone.


Safe and Happy diving

[wetbehindtheear]

Was great to see that you dropped the knife rather than fumble around with it. I hope that if I'm ever in the same situation, I'll do the same.

[Diver Joe]

wetbehindtheear once bubbled...
Was great to see that you dropped the knife .

Nice name ...I have not heard that one since the early 80's when I was on my first dive course with the Navy. 23 years later and I'm still a bag of hammers... Ha..

Well...I could have tried to untangle us but that might have made things worst.... I decided to use the knife and when I was done with it get rid of it before it too became a problem...

I could of, and perhaps should have, used my Z-Knife which was wrist mounted.... It would have done the job and would have been less of a hazard... It either didn't occur to me or I perferred the easier to handle full size knife...In any event...a decision was made and acted upon.

Stop, Breath, Think, Act

Safe and Happy Diving
Cheers

[Kevin R]

Teamplayer

"We" are the people on the team I am diving with, Almost always a group of DIR divers.

****************

rule #1 - when in doubt, don't dive- doubts include non DIR divers, quality of boat, crew, personal feelings, attitudes, gear problems, dive conditions, just plain don't feel like diving that morning, etc... Always remember that anyone can turn a dive at any time for any reason without question. This includes turning the dive before it happens.

Marc Hall did an excellent job in his post of demonstrating where the situation in the first post could have been better dealt with, primarily through prevention on the surface, rather then a cure on the bottom. Since he is a GUE instructor, he is in a better position than I to explain these points.

I think it's great that Diver Joe feels confident about sharing his experience, more divers should put these problems up for discussion so that we all might learn from it. I also feel that an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. DIR is not for everyone and I do realize that not everyone dives it. However, whatever configuration you dive, good solid skills which can only be obtained through practice, practice, practice are the best way to deal with a dive gone bad when Mr. Murphy arrives.

Breathing the wrong reg is one of the most preventable problems you can have. Proper tank markings (MOD or Max Operating Depth and nothing else on or in a dedicated cylinder), combined with proper stage bottle drills means that this is nothing more than one more step in a dive plan. However, by using confusing markings, different reg models (I use Apeks DS-4/TX-50's with black faceplates and no hose protectors for all of my stages), bottle location, colour coded regs, the list goes on, to determine what is in a bottle is a recipie for disaster. It's really simple, look at the tank, look at your bottom timer, if you are deeper than the marking on the tank, you cannot breathe that gas so don't pull out that reg. Never have more than one reg out at a time. This wasn't really an issue here since (I assume) it was a 70' dive probably on air, with all of the tanks filled with the same gas. If you feel you need more redundancy on a dive, e-bay the pony bottle and invest in a proper set of doubles with an isolator.

My apologies if I rambled too much.

Kevin

[Doppler]

Diver Joe: you're an experienced diver and I personally think you handled the situation very well. Your buddy did ok too... :)

However -- and I will resist the temptation to tallk about gear configuration -- the lessons learned here sould include one about always following a standard set of pre-dive procedures.

A very good friend of mine -- a far more experienced instructor than I -- taught me that checking gear on the surface is way easier than dealing with problems at depth.

Now. let's talk about hogathian configuration and equipment awareness...





Nah... you already know that!

[James Pate]

Joe,
Thanks for posting your experience here. I was planning to sit back and watch this thread run but I am reading a few things starting to happen here that experience has proved to be quite dangerous. My post here is an attempt to inspire new thinking and hopefully some positive debate.
This incident is an ideal opportunity for Accident Analysis. The majority of accidents happen on the surface and this one in no different.

Also consider a basic rule that we have ingrained from our first days of GUE training. "GAS KILLS". Breathing the wrong gas for the operating depth and/or depleting ones gas supply kills. You DO NOT play games with GAS. Very experienced divers have died thanks to Gas errors. Never take the gas for granted.

Do not take short cuts with gas. Always check the hose routing and always analysis the gas.

Joe's, error at the surface; he crossed his long breathing hose under his bungeed short hose:

Therefore during the dive, when deploying his long hose to donate to Frank the long hose was trapped and you cut away the bungee. This magnified an already stressful situation.

The solution:
Once you have donned your gear deploy your long hose, while you are still on the boat to ensure that it is clear for use. Trapping the long hose under the short hose is an easy thing to have happen; therefore always check deploy-ability before every dive. You should consider doing this before every dive.

Frank’s error at the surface; He switch regs on his set up:

The result breathing the small bottle dry during the dive. Creating the stressful situation.

The solution:
Without even changing Frank’s equipment configuration is to trace each hose back to its source, during setup. Start with the valves turned off; trace a hose to the valve and open the valve; purge the second stage, which belongs to that hose to verify that it is the correct valve, correct hose, and correct reg.

With changing to a slinged stage (which I recommend) the process is the same, if the hose and regulator are stowed correctly. Simply visually verify that it is the correct bottle you are going to breath from pull the hose from the bungee trace the hose back to the valve and open the valve. Purge the valve slightly to verify you have the correct reg working off the correct cylinder. This setup is clean and simple.

There has been some mention of colour coding and I would like to advise caution here. Colour coded regs have killed a number of divers. Either under stress they mixed up the coding or in a no viz situation they could not identify the gas. The same goes for using different model regs for different jobs (this type of reg for this gas and that type of reg for that gas). It does not work. If you are switching to different tanks in the water you have to trace the hose back to the tank in order to verify it is the correct source. Anything else is quite simply a KILLER in waiting.

The solution:
Mark the bottle with 3” letters, which state the max operating depth MOD of the gas in the cylinder. These letters can be seen in a no viz situation, if you hold the tank up close. Colour coded regs cannot always be seen correctly in such situations.

On a parting note: An out of gas situation is not life threatening unless you are diving solo. Frank got to Joe and they both came out okay. If Frank was solo chances are thing would be a lot different. With proper training “Out of Gas” is no more then an inconvenience . As experience and training has proved that we are probably dealing with an “I cannot get to my gas right now” situation, instead of an “I have lost all my gas” situation. After the two divers got the air share under way they should have been able to solve the problem, but this is a compound problem when you are diving dissimilar equipment configurations.

Safe dives
James

[James Pate]

To add to my last post.

Marc did an excellant job of describing how we work a single tank set up. My buddy is my back up gas supply. We do not dive solo.

James

[Rooster1]

The BEST thing you guys did on that dive was stay cool.
Panic kills! But your level heads prevailed irregardless of what the screw up was. Good Job:thumb:

[Diver Joe]

Great guys thanks alot good points ....although my hoses were ok..... I believe that when I passed Frank my long hose I passed it thru the bungee that was on my short...remember that he was breathing it...while the bungee was still attached to me.

Happy to report two good dives today and am heading to the river tomorrow.

Cheers

Safe and Happy Diving

[Diver Joe]

Hi Roster thanks to you as well..

Yes...I believe that was the main thing, and we have dove together for several years, so that probably was a help.

cheers

safe and happy diving

[zeN||]

;) After experiencing a similiar mixup I have since painted my redundant air supply regulator yellow to avoid confusing the two zeN||

[John McClane]

I feel that it took guts and maturity as a diver to actually share a problem encountered. Rather refreshing to hear someone say -"things didn't go as planned" as opposed to " I walk on water and know all".
Anyone who says they always do it right has a short memory.
As a new person in this board I am happy to see so many qualified opinions though - everyone has something to share.

[DA Aquamaster]

Some people are getting to hung up on the use of color at both extremes. Color is hard to see at depth, at best you end up discerning the difference between two shades of grey. That is why it is more important that the second stages be able to be identified by feel. The advantages of a hose protector in this regard on the reduntant reg and spg is that they can be identified by feel alone which makes them effective even in zero viz. That won't work with an MOD label and at best you end up tracing a hose from the stage bottle that you hope you remember correctly as containing the gas you want.

If you are only using a tank and a pony, and only the pony reg's second stage has a hose protector, the potential for confusion is zero, even in zero viz.

And a set of doubles is not the end all answer. A suitably sized and configured pony is a suitable redundant air source for most rec diving situations. Also for many divers a set of doubles is not an option as many BC's won't accomodate them and/or many divers lack the strenght to lift and carry them.

Similarly, slingling a pony is not the end all answer either as again many BC's are not properly configured for slinging a tank while nearly any BC can accomodate a pony bracket on the tank. Also there are situations where having the diver's front clear is an asset and a back mounted pony is frankly easier for most rec divers to manage - the second stage is clipped to the BC like any other octopus, and that is a configuration that most rec divers are familiar with.

To give the "tec" answer that the only ways to do it are with doubles or a slung pony bottle and MOD labels is doing a discervice to the majority of non "tec" divers out there. It's a nice thing to have values and techiques that work for you and that you believe in, but it's neither nice nor appropriate to dogmatically impose those ideas and techniques on divers who are not in a situation that requires them.

[mglasspo]

Hi all, I feel the need to pop my two cents in here.

I think that however unfortunate the mistake was that happened, it was handled. This is due to experience and training. Both divers have learned from it, and so have a number of others, I might add.

I personally feel that it is unsafe attitudes that cause accidents. Examples being, solo divers, not knowing your buddies gear configuration, not diving with the correct gear, not understanding your buddy, and any general disregard for safety.

People who dive with a safe attitude are better prepared and ready to handle problems. In this case a mistake was made and was handled by a prepared diver with a safe attitude.

There is something to be said for DIR, in that it (if I understand it correctly) has a standardized gear configuration. I've also heard that it is optimized for usability and safety. That said, I don't like the us and them attitude that I seem to feel from a number of DIR divers. I have dived with DIR divers in the past and have enjoyed their company. I didn't feel the Us and Them attitude that I feel on this board.

Am I mistaken? Or am I just a substandard diver that should be on the dock to catch the lines instead of on the boat doing the dive.

Again, my two cents.

Mike

[bottom_sucker]

Many thanks for the very informative post DJ! Very glad you and your dive buddy successfully resolved the situation.

[Boogie711]

If you're trying to differentiate between two sets of regs, I'm of the firm belief that painting them different colours won't do jack.

You lose colour at depth, and what if you're trying to differentiate between two sets of regs in a silt-out or in a night dive in the dark?

What do people think of the Dive-Rite fabric strips that go over the regulator piece for stage bottles? The idea being that you can't inadvertently start breathing from a reg that has a strip of fabric over the mouthpiece, and when you DO want to start breathing you just pull the fabric out of the way. In an emergency, you could still breath from it first.

Just curious on opinions. I have no strong opinion on it either way.

[zeN||]

:D Well that makes sense, perhaps color and some shape that can be identified by tactile is even better, thanks for the tip, I have decided that I will longer use an identical 2nd stage, due to the fact that you can't differentiate them from feel thanx zeN||