Refunds for Students who Can't pass O/W?

Should students who are not capable of passing certification requirements be refunded their tutition?

While this question was triggered by an unrelated post, I have a real-time interest. I have a new student who 'appears' to be unable to kick strong enough to keep her head above water to orally inflate her BCD (i.e., in an OOA situation). Assuming we aren't able to correct this situation, what if any refund should she get?

Do you get your money back if you enroll in a course at a university and fail? IMO, the instructor/shop was paid to teach the student how to scuba dive. If that was done, the money was earned...the student is NOT paying for a certification, but for a class. If the student is paying for a certification, the shop deserves to lose the revenue for running classes like that. Student expectations should be set up front so they know this is a class and passing and getting a certification is not guaranteed.

Just my 2 cents..

I agree, instruction is paid for, certification is earned. I would have a hard time refunding, I would however, be willing for work with her/him alone some more in the pool, maybe with alternatives. Maybe have buddy help keep them afloat while they inflate(which I think should be taught anyway), hand off weight to buddy to help them become bouyant, something like that.

I've already voted 'no' in the poll, because I don't believe a refund is either good business practice for the LDS or - more importantly - conductive to turning out safe divers. The 'refunded' student can simply bag her money and spend it at a less discerning dive shop.

The best alternative would - if possible - to continue training, either at a pro-rata rate, or - if you're really willing to refund the money anyway, continue the training further but on the understanding that she may not receive a c-card at the end of it all. And that this is in her best interest, it's her safety and well-being on the line.

If it were a PADI diveshop, you could always offer her a Scuba Diver certificate instead and explain the limits to her. This would severely limit the types of dives she's doing and - if properly enforced - will prevent her doing dives on her own or with an unsuspecting non-professional buddy. She can then always return at a later stage, if her deficiencies have been corrected and complete the OW course with you.

These are generalities. Certifications should of course not be handed over to divers who aren't qualified in the instructor's eyes.

However, I'm a bit surprised at the exact nature of her problem which prompted your question. Which training agency requires their students to be able to kick strongly enough to be able to orally inflate their BCD:s? Wouldn't it be better to stress to her that she should really be correctly weighted, i.e. not overweighted so that she can accomplish this task more easily (yet still be able to descend normally)?

Of course, if she's terrifically obese or so, I can see the problem. If she's actually physically handicapped, I can also see the problem at hand, but there are excellent dive training agencies about for people with quite severe handicaps.

In all other cases, perhaps she could do exercises to strengthen her lower body and legs? Or practice her swimming techniques?

Assuming there was no policy clearly stating up front a "No Refund" (partial or otherwise) policy,

In the case where someone really wanted to try to get into diving, and, say, couldn't pass the swimming test, assuming the test was give early on in the process, a partial refund might be in order. Just like a student dropping a course within a certain window of time at the begining of a school term is often given a refund (partial or full, depending on the timing).

Also, again, if it wasn't from a lack of effort on the student's part, the certification fee portion might be refunded (since it wasn't going to be paid to the certifying agency) if that fee was bundled in the course fee.

Lets face it - the student is paying for instruction, not buying a certification - perhaps if the student has only attended confined water sessions, they could be refunded the charge for the open water dives - maybe charge them what they would have been charged for confined water instruction that would have resulted in a referral for their open water dives to be done elsewhere.

You've invested your time with them, your time should not be free. They've received some instruction, they can pay for it. It's not your fault if the student doesn't have basic water skills which should be expected of all scuba students. If you're afraid of heights, don't take hang-gliding lessons! If you can't tread water, don't take scuba lessons!

Maybe referring them to an adult swimming course before allowing them to continue with OW could be another option.

I fail to see the problem.

You don't have be able to kick strong enough to keep your head above water to orally inflate your BC.

You merely have to kick (scissor kick) high enough to get one good breath. As you sink, you exhale into your oral inflator. Kick again and repeat. Each kick is easier than the one before. Unless grossly overweighted, anyone healthy enough to dive can easily complete the skill.

Are you using this technique? Is the diver overweighted?

"Which training agency requires their students to be able to kick strongly enough to be able to orally inflate their BCD:s?"

None, but NAUI, PADI and YMCA (maybe others?) all require a student to orally inflate their BC. There's no mention of kicking strongly.

No refund, but... no need to quit this student either.

I like the approach Walter posted. Sounds like a workable solution.

I was originally going to agree that no refund is due, and to ask about the kicking high enough to orally inflate the B/C....

Then I read Walter's approach....

Nice!