Newbie Question safe second

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BigJim

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I like the idea of a long hose on the primary, and having a short second, but what are the advantages/disadvantages between having it bungeed around your neck vs. the ones integrated with the BC inflator hose?

And while we're on the subject, when you go with this setup, should your primary be bright yellow, and your second black since you'll be giving your primary to your buddy in an OOA situation?
 
But this topic has been battered to death. You might want to try the 'search' function and do a search on "Air2" or whatever the heck those things are called.

There are two camps - those who believe that an Alternate inflation regulator will "do just fine" and those who believe using one is stupid. I must confess, I am a member of the second camp.

Ask yourself - if you have an Out-of-air buddy who's panicking at 85 feet, would you rather be breathing a normal regulator or mussing around, trying to calm him down and control your bouyancy on an inflator hose stuck in your mouth while breathing a regulator which doesn't deliver air as efficiently.

With a bungee'd second, the backup is right there where you need it, under your chin.

Re: Yellow vs. not - I don't think it matters. At depth, it's all just shades of grey. A panicking OOA buddy is going to go for the reg with bubbles - the one in your mouth. Especially if that's what your brief him to do anyway.
 
Those are not the only alternatives. Most divers use and octo that is neither and Air II nor bungied around their neck.

The Air II is fine, but it is not the best choice. In most cases, I don't believe a long hose is the best choice either.
 
the air 2 and air source come in handy if you dive a pony....it just keeps the reg count down one
 
Boogie711 once bubbled...
But this topic has been battered to death. You might want to try the 'search' function and do a search on "Air2" or whatever the heck those things are called.

Thanks. this thread was pretty much what I was looking for.

Walter wrote...Those are not the only alternatives. Most divers use and octo that is neither and Air II nor bungied around their neck.

Yes, I'm aware of that. The arguments I've read in favor of a long primary, and a short 2nd make sense to me, and I liked the idea of the integrated inflator, but I think I'm convinced that this is not the best idea.
 
A few things that may bear consideration:

1) The inflator must be immediately accessable at all times, and in a consistent location to enable you to locate it without having to see it. Typically, the length is only sufficient to be retained in such a position and still reach the owner's mouth, drysuit inflator, etc. By using a combination reg/inflator here, you either need to increase the length of hose to accomodate gas sharing with this reg, or lose the benefit of the retained position.

2) A standard inflator mechanism can and is used as a tertiary backup regulator, by breathing off of it while depressing both the inflator and vent buttons simultaneously. (such a situation might entail negotiating a tight restriction while donating gas, and rolling off the left post) A combination reg/inflator unit will either be intended to replace the traditional backup, in which case you are losing an entire second stage, or to supplement it, in which case you are unnecessarily complicating the system by adding failure probability to your buoyancy control device.

3) If using the combination unit to replace the traditional backup second stage, you have now lost a second which could otherwise be swapped out with another stage if malfunctioning, opened and cleared underwater, etc., with something unique that can not be easily cleared or swapped with anything.

4) It is a poor idea to constrain a regulator to a device which is used for other purposes, when the necessary functional location and necessary range of movement of the two devices are not the same.

5) Contingency response to a stuck inflator mechanism (mechanical failure, frozen or fouled) can include immediately disconnecting the LP hose from the offending device. With a combination unit, you either disconnect the reg as well in this case, or if equipped with a dual fitting for the purpose, have now complicated things in the exact area you need to get to in an emergency to perform the disconnect.

6) The above scenario raises the somewhat obvious point of the failure probabilities of the regulator and the inflator combining to result in a less reliable device than either of the two independent components.

7) A standard second stage, when employed as a backup regulator, is restrained beneath the owner's chin in a position which enables him/her to switch to it hands-free. I doubt that you could arrange the combination unit in an identical fashion effectively, but even if this were possible, you now have precluded the ordinary function or the inflator by keeping it in this position.

8) In the aforementioned position, while primarily intended as a backup for the owner, a diver in need of gas can still go for this reg immediately, pull it free of the restraint, and breathe from it. Such a diver, who may quite likely be panicked, is not apt to excercise extreme caution in where they place their fingers when grabbing the device. A combination inflator/regulator unit in this scenario places the buoyancy controls in a position that allows such an individual to operate them accidentally while trying to obtain gas.

-Sean
 
BigJim once bubbled...
I like the idea of a long hose on the primary, and having a short second, but what are the advantages/disadvantages between having it bungeed around your neck vs. the ones integrated with the BC inflator hose?
With the backup reg bungeed around your neck, you will always know where it is. It is simple to access and is logically placed. The bungee also has uses in helping you keep the reg in your mouth if you black out, etc.

Integrated reg/inflator units are dangerous. They create air dumping problems, breath poorly and drag about in the water. You are much better off with 2 legitimate regs and a regular inflator. There is a lot of info on this subject if you do a search.
And while we're on the subject, when you go with this setup, should your primary be bright yellow, and your second black since you'll be giving your primary to your buddy in an OOA situation?
All my regs are black. I don't need a coloring scheme because those I dive with know that if needed, they will be gettting the reg out of my mouth. I don't like bright regs because they look like a target to random divers who might be in the water. It seems to create less possible problems if you just go with all black covers.
 
ElectricZombie once bubbled...

Integrated reg/inflator units are dangerous. They create air dumping problems, breath poorly and drag about in the water. You are much better off with 2 legitimate regs and a regular inflator. There is a lot of info on this subject if you do a search.
[B

I have a seaquest airsource
air dumping is still possible
it does not breath poorly
it is not much bigger than a regular inflator so not sure how it drags in the water.

It may not be DIR but it is a damm sight better than a convetional rig.
1) Most likely a panicked diver will grab the reg in your mouth, both the long hose system and AirII arrangement will work here
2) I know exactly where it is.
3) It is maintained regularly along with my other Reg, who can say that about their inflator

It is no more dangerous than the bungied wings of death for which i am yet to see an example of an actual accident. feel free to say it is not preffered but dont use the dangerous B/S
 
Albion once bubbled...


I have a seaquest airsource
air dumping is still possible
it does not breath poorly
it is not much bigger than a regular inflator so not sure how it drags in the water.

It may not be DIR but it is a damm sight better than a convetional rig.
1) Most likely a panicked diver will grab the reg in your mouth, both the long hose system and AirII arrangement will work here
2) I know exactly where it is.
3) It is maintained regularly along with my other Reg, who can say that about their inflator

It is no more dangerous than the bungied wings of death for which i am yet to see an example of an actual accident. feel free to say it is not preffered but dont use the dangerous B/S

:rolleyes:
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/perdix-ai/

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