DIRF and swim test

[large_diver]

For those that have taken DIRF, were you required to take a surface (300 yard) and/or underwater (50 feet) swim test?

[Big-t-2538]

No, not tested in our class, I'd think that requirement is more of a CYA deal now that it is a cert class, but hey, I've been wrong before

BTW...I'm not so sure this is really a "tek" question, but I guess a lot of people in this forum have taken DIR-F

<edited to not sound so peeved>

[ElectricZombie]

We did the 300 yard swim.

[TCDiver1]

You having a rough day or something?.:confused:

This might not belong in the tek area but he just asked a question. Besides, unless i'm reading his profile wrong, it looks like he already did a DIRF.

[Big-t-2538]

I guess the original comment was a little harsh eh? I've edited my short-fusedness....hopefully not too many people caught the inital blow.

[TCDiver1]

that post didn't sound like you. It sounded more like me!;)

[Big-t-2538]

gedunk once bubbled...
that post didn't sound like you. It sounded more like me!;)

great...now I'm contemplating suicide...thanks....




ah hell with that...I'll just have another beer...suicide takes planning, times, execution...and you really only have one shot to get it right...too much like work if you ask me.

[large_diver]

Yes -- I've taken DIRF once....and now I am taking it for a second time, this time up in the St. Lawrence. Reason: I am taking it with my regular dive buddy this time and thought it would be a great way to work on our buddy team skills as well as all the other things I couldn't do the first time through ;-)

As for where this thread belongs...I guess half of the DIR-related posts end up here and half in the non-tech sections....6 of one, half dozen of the other.....

Zombie -- where's your vote?

As for the poll -- the first time through DIRF -- no test. This time we will have to complete the 300 yard test. I agree, it must be because of the new pass/fail format.

[sasdasdaf]

yes, the swim test is now a requirement.

[vodolaz]

No, thankfully.

What's the time requirement for the swim?

[ElectricZombie]

large_diver once bubbled...

Zombie -- where's your vote?


Forgot to earlier...just voted...

[MarcHall]

The required swim test is

300 yards in less then 14 minutes without stopping &
Swim a distance underwater of at least 50 feet on a breath hold.

For Tech 1 it is

300 yards in 12 minutes & 50 feet breat hold

For Tech 2 it is

400 yard in 12 minutes & 60 feet breath hold

The swim can be done using any stroke.

Marc Hall
GUE Recreational Instructor
www.enjoythedive.com
Teach DIRF, Will Travel

[cast55]

300 yards in 14 minutes is not a difficult test, and is in fact probably too low a threshold for regular diving fitness. A more appropriate goal for routine swimming fitness is 600 meters in 12 minutes. Also, for the breath hold swim, there are a couple of training techniques which are invaluable, not only for tests, but for keeping yourself prepared for an out-of-gas event in real life:

1) Breath hold swims: Swimming a length underwater should not be a big deal, but by doing this routinely (and incrementally extending the distance you swim on a single breath hold) you intuitively learn to conserve energy / air and use the most efficient body position (streamlining) and stroke (muscle group discrimination) possible.

2) Over and unders: Once a base competency has been established with regard to a breath hold swim, over-and-unders provide a means of increasing cardiovascular efficiency by combining aerobic and anaerobic conditioning in one exercise. Swim a length on the surface, then submerge and swim a length on the bottom, in a continuous cycle. The first few are relatively easy, but as your heart rate increases, it becomes more difficult to complete a length on the bottom on a single breath. The intent of this conditioning is to train your heart rate to drop or rise quickly in response to actual workload.

3) Anaerobic swimming: Starting with whatever your comfortable cruise speed is, start delaying your breaths by one stroke. Swim as far as you can following that pattern. Once you are able to do that continuously, add another stroke between breaths.

-Sean

[Dyno Bill]

Cast, your exercise routine sounds like circuit training for free diving.
Bill

[large_diver]

Yes, we had the swim tests in the pool for DIRF this weekend -- IMHO the surface swim requirements for ALL the classes are far too lenient to measure anything valuable. If you can float, you can probably make it in the time required. We had a range of swimming ability/strengths in the class. It was a relatively narrow pool, making it crowded during the test -- even with all the swimmer traffic forcing people to slow way down, I think the slowest time was somewhere around 8 minutes for the 300 yards.

The underwater swim is a little more relevant and more demanding.

[Big-t-2538]

I don't think the swim tests are designed to be demanding....I think it is more of a bare minimum than anything else.

Remember we are diving, not swimming, although swimming is wonderful exercise and is an elment to diving, it is a skill you have to be competent with, not awesome at, to be able to dive well.

[large_diver]

I guess it depends on your definition of "competency". Someone can easily just float on their back and scull gently and complete that distance in that time. I would not call that competant swimming.

[Big-t-2538]

but anyone who can scull gently and complete 300 yards of it more than likely can swim....sculling is kind of one of those 'tools' to effective swimming.

[cast55]

Yes, we are diving and not swimming, but look at it from this perspective:

Your swimming strength and endurance are going to bear directly on the speed with which you can respond to a surface emergency, and your ability to swim a disabled diver to medical attention. Personally, I wouldn't dive with someone who I felt was not sufficiently capable of rendering effective and timely assistance to me, should I require it.

Think about that the next time you buddy up with someone who is out of shape.

-Sean

[TCDiver1]

cast55 once bubbled...

Think about that the next time you buddy up with someone who is out of shape.
-Sean

Fitness level is one criteria (not the most important to me) of many to use in judging other divers. Some of the best buddies i've ever had could be considered "out ot shape" by most interpretations of the phrase.

I've certified many excellent swimmers and many not so excellent swimmers .... swimming ability doesn't make a good buddy, one way or the other IMO. Watching someone swim or scull their way through a 300, regardless of the finish time, gives the instructor a wealth of knowledge of the students watermanship skills. Recommendations for remediation can follow from there.

IMO, the DIR, 300 yard swim test is logical for that reason alone.

[Big-t-2538]

cast55 once bubbled...
Yes, we are diving and not swimming, but look at it from this perspective:

Your swimming strength and endurance are going to bear directly on the speed with which you can respond to a surface emergency, and your ability to swim a disabled diver to medical attention.

While I agree with this to an extent, I do not think swimming is a good measure of how someone in full scuba gear is going to get someone else in full scuba gear to the shore or boat in an emergency.

While lifeguards have to swim their vitctims to shore, scuba divers tow or push their divers while in scuba gear....and I know swimming in my full wetsuit is a whole lot harder than kicking with fins on.

So swimming ability bears some merit to rescue, but certainly not all. And as for out of shape....well if you first met me you would probably deem me out of shape....I mean I am 240 lbs and only 6 foot tall.

[large_diver]

There are of course exceptions to any "rule'.....

....but all else being held equal, if you were in a life threatening position, wouldn't you PREFER someone who is a strong swimmer(faster, less likely to cramp up at the wrong time, etc.), who can swim at least one length of a 25 yard pool on a single breath hold, who is cardio-vascularly fit, etc., etc.?

There are plenty of great divers out there who don't meet the traditional guidelines of physically fit...but again, if you were starting from scratch and doing things the right way......

Something to ponder.

[Big-t-2538]

I think we all get the point....

We all just have differing opinions on how important the swimming part is...

at any rate, the swim test is something the instructors can use to initally evaluate and tailor the class for the student(s)

[Taxshark]

Just my thoughts (generally of very limited value :) ). I think Big-T that your point is well taken, the conditions we'd face in critical situation while diving would not likely require a clean, perfectly formed, freestyle (with gear, etc.). However, IMO, the balance tips toward the diver who is a provicient swimmer over the diver who can (on the more extreme example) can just make the swimming requirement doing some modified breast stroke with the head out of the water at all times. I say this, not because I'd expect the diver to have a bouancy concern (someone there probably has a working BCD) but because the proficient swimmer will, only naturally, not be as concerned about the swim (and may, but not necessarily will, be in better condition). In my experience, the more limited a person's swimming ability, the greater their general discomfort with the water. That's just one more concern I'd see added onto a stressful situation. All this said (sorry to be wordy :D ), I think gedunked is right about this being only one factor regarding dive buddies (ability to handle stress would have to factor into that mix). I'd still count a swim test as a great time for an instructor (any agency) to stand on the deck and evaluate the abilities of his/her students.

[sig]

In either of these swim requirements do you use fins.

[ystava_nl]

Yes,
We had to do both tests. There was one person in our class which had to redo the underwater part as he did not cover enough distance the first time. His second attempt directly afterwards was a lot better.

The test was done at the beach, it was surprising to see where everybody ended up :)

This was a combined dirf and tech-1 course (duration 7 long but pleasurefull days).

[Big-t-2538]

sig once bubbled...
In either of these swim requirements do you use fins.

Not to my knowledge....

[large_diver]

No fins -- swim goggles or a mask were permitted.

[SPEEDSTER]

Of the 2 GUE courses I've taken, we only did a swim test for cave 1, but not fundamentals. Although, when I took DIRF, it was not a pass/fail like it is now.

I agree that it should be part of all the courses, I wouldn't dive with someone that couldn't swim. (and swimming 300 yds in 12-14 minutes barely qualifies as swimming IMO)

M