So I've recently been looking for webbing - we got a Dive Rite backplate with some fancy Deluxe harness on it - far too much crap going on with that one and as well as one of the harnesses we have needs to be redone because its starting to fray. So, in search of webbing i came accross this guy on ebay:
That particular ebay item is for seat belt webbing but at least it will give you a contact. I couldn't come close to his webbing price anywhere (if you buy it by the roll) and i looked far too many places. I sent him a sample of the stuff we normally use for backplate webbing and ordered a little too much :) - I will now have webbing for the rest of my life and the lives of my buddies and likely their childrens children plus family twice removed.
Anyways, if you're interested, get in touch with that guy and let him know its for a diving harness and that some guy sent him a sample recently (he should know what you're talking about). If not, PM me.
steve
klausbh
July 17th, 2003, 03:14 PM
McMaster-Carr 3439T12
Bulked Nylon Webbing 2" Wide, Gray, 5000# Breaking Strength
Quantity Per Ft.
1-49 Ft. $0.75
50 or more 0.65
-Klaus
KrisB
July 24th, 2003, 05:30 PM
Your best bet for webbing would actually be to go to your local rock climbing supply store -- the 1" tubular webbing available at www.mec.ca has a tensile strength of 1815 kg/4000lbs and is CA$0.90 (about US$0.63) per metre (a meter is 3 1/3 ft).
This is the stuff that rock climbers stake their lives on -- if it fails, they're quite possibly dead... if it won't do the trick to keep your backplate attached, you've got some serious issues to deal with! :-)
You'll want to learn the "water" knot for tying the ends together.
wetman
July 25th, 2003, 07:23 AM
It may be strong enough, but its the wrong size. Needs to be 2 inches for all the hardware you put on it and to fit the plate properly. So far these prices are quite a bit higher as well.
steve
jonnythan
July 25th, 2003, 08:10 AM
KrisB once bubbled...
Your best bet for webbing would actually be to go to your local rock climbing supply store -- the 1" tubular webbing available at www.mec.ca has a tensile strength of 1815 kg/4000lbs and is CA$0.90 (about US$0.63) per metre (a meter is 3 1/3 ft).
This is the stuff that rock climbers stake their lives on -- if it fails, they're quite possibly dead... if it won't do the trick to keep your backplate attached, you've got some serious issues to deal with! :-)
You'll want to learn the "water" knot for tying the ends together.
I've got maybe 100 feet of 1 inch tubular in the basement, and I'd never use the stuff to make a harness for a backplate.
The stuff is rated to about 20 kN, but tying any kind of knot (not that you'd put a knot in a scuba harness) reduces it's strength by 40 or 50%. Besides, the stuff is just not very durable... the tubular is only used where friction is about zero... and seeing how the super tough 2" webbing has been wearing on my backplate.... the 1" tubular would last maybe six hours.
jonnythan
July 25th, 2003, 08:11 AM
wetman once bubbled...
It may be strong enough, but its the wrong size. Needs to be 2 inches for all the hardware you put on it and to fit the plate properly. So far these prices are quite a bit higher as well.
steve
They sell 2" tubular everywhere they sell 1" tubular.... but it's not a good idea for a harness.
KrisB
July 25th, 2003, 12:30 PM
jonnythan once bubbled...
I've got maybe 100 feet of 1 inch tubular in the basement, and I'd never use the stuff to make a harness for a backplate.
The stuff is rated to about 20 kN, but tying any kind of knot (not that you'd put a knot in a scuba harness) reduces it's strength by 40 or 50%. Besides, the stuff is just not very durable... the tubular is only used where friction is about zero... and seeing how the super tough 2" webbing has been wearing on my backplate.... the 1" tubular would last maybe six hours.
I don't know anything about backplate harnesses, but I know enough about climbing to say that 1" tubular rated to 20kN is likely the same stuff that I use as life support when climbing rock.
And, with the proper knot (a water knot) its strength is not significantly reduced. Also, that stuff is some of the most durable -- remember, we're talking about using it where it's rubbing against a rock that is often sharp. It stands up quite nicely.
It sounds as though you need to take a file to the backplate -- there really shouldn't be any need for sharp edges on that, though some may have been left over from the manufacturing process.
jonnythan
July 27th, 2003, 11:25 PM
KrisB once bubbled...
I don't know anything about backplate harnesses, but I know enough about climbing to say that 1" tubular rated to 20kN is likely the same stuff that I use as life support when climbing rock.
And, with the proper knot (a water knot) its strength is not significantly reduced. Also, that stuff is some of the most durable -- remember, we're talking about using it where it's rubbing against a rock that is often sharp. It stands up quite nicely.
It sounds as though you need to take a file to the backplate -- there really shouldn't be any need for sharp edges on that, though some may have been left over from the manufacturing process.
A water knot on webbing reduces its stength by 30 to 50 percent. Since nylon webbing doesn't have a protective sheath to cover the load bearing members the way kernmantle rope does, abrasion on the webbing itself causes the webbing to break *very* easily.
I've done a high angle/cave rescue course, and we had a day where we just broke stuff. Breaking 11mm static rope tied with a tensionless hitch was impressive... the rope is strong and the knots hold.
Breaking 1" tubular was super easy... all you have to do is load a water knot and watch it smoke and rip right where there's friction. There's a reason we do a wrap 3-pull 2 or wrap 4-pull 3 while putting the water knot in the lowest-tension spot in setting anchors for rescue or single rope techniques... Water knots in tubular weaken the system a *lot*
It is *nowhere* near as durable as the weight belt webbing, and would need to be replaced far more often.
So I've recently been looking for webbing - we got a Dive Rite backplate with some fancy Deluxe harness on it - far too much crap going on with that one and as well as one of the harnesses we have needs to be redone because its starting to fray. So, in search of webbing i came accross this guy on ebay:
That particular ebay item is for seat belt webbing but at least it will give you a contact. I couldn't come close to his webbing price anywhere (if you buy it by the roll) and i looked far too many places. I sent him a sample of the stuff we normally use for backplate webbing and ordered a little too much :) - I will now have webbing for the rest of my life and the lives of my buddies and likely their childrens children plus family twice removed.
Anyways, if you're interested, get in touch with that guy and let him know its for a diving harness and that some guy sent him a sample recently (he should know what you're talking about). If not, PM me.
steve
Sideband
November 30th, 2004, 12:21 AM
I've got maybe 100 feet of 1 inch tubular in the basement, and I'd never use the stuff to make a harness for a backplate.
The stuff is rated to about 20 kN, but tying any kind of knot (not that you'd put a knot in a scuba harness) reduces it's strength by 40 or 50%. Besides, the stuff is just not very durable... the tubular is only used where friction is about zero... and seeing how the super tough 2" webbing has been wearing on my backplate.... the 1" tubular would last maybe six hours.
A bit off since I agree about the 1" tubular not being the right material for the job, but a better knot is the beer knot. It only has about a 20% strength reduction. I just did some searching and it seems there is only one page on the entire web that demonstrates how to tie it, and that site is down. It's pretty easy to tie in new webbing though.
Make a very loose overhand knot in a length of webbing then open up one of the webbing ends so that it forms a tube and feed about a foot of the other end into the open end. Work the overhand knot to the center of the doubled web and pull tight. Used webbing makes it a bit harder to tie because its harder to feed the limper webbing into the open end.
Test #11: Test the beer knot. This is an alternative to the water-knot. It's tied as an overhand follow-though, but open up the tubular webbing and do the follow through inside the other piece. The load was applied to a loop of used 1" webbing tied with the beer knot.
Result: Webbing broke at shackle at 4750 lb.
Test #9: Pull a 5/8" sewn runner with 6 bar tacks. Load was applied to the loop. Unknown manufacturer.
Result: Broke at shackle at 5050 lb.
Beer Knot- Published more than 10 years ago in climbing publications, the Beer Knot is used to join 2 pieces or ends of tubular webbing together to make a sling or runner. While the customary Ring Bend (Water Knot) tests at 50-65% of strength (depending on which reference you read), the Beer Knot is consistently at 80% as tested by PMI. The Beer Knot is left tied, not removed as others are. It is useful for anchors or other uses when you don't need to re-tie to adjust for length. Easily tied on new webbing, it is a bit of a challenge with used webbing.
A bit off since I agree about the 1" tubular not being the right material for the job, but a better knot is the beer knot. It only has about a 20% strength reduction. I just did some searching and it seems there is only one page on the entire web that demonstrates how to tie it, and that site is down. It's pretty easy to tie in new webbing though.
Make a very loose overhand knot in a length of webbing then open up one of the webbing ends so that it forms a tube and feed about a foot of the other end into the open end. Work the overhand knot to the center of the doubled web and pull tight. Used webbing makes it a bit harder to tie because its harder to feed the limper webbing into the open end.
Joe
bcsean
November 30th, 2004, 02:37 PM
$1/yd seems pretty cheap. Good find. I'll stick to 2" traditional webbing. Why try to change what works?
jonnythan
November 30th, 2004, 02:38 PM
This thread is very old, let it die ;)
FreeFloat
November 30th, 2004, 05:22 PM
This thread is very old, let it die ;)
Useful info though. If not for thread resurrections I'd miss a lot of interesting discussions.
I wanted to add a comment too: tubular webbing is, IMO, too soft (un-stiff) to make decent backplate harness.
NetDoc
November 30th, 2004, 05:39 PM
How 'bout a link for the beer knot? :D
deadend
November 30th, 2004, 07:04 PM
Concerning the strength of webbing-when it is tied into a loop the strength of the loop is nearly double that of it's tensile strength. So tying webbing into a loop with a water or beer knot is ensuring that the overall strength is automatically greater than the single strand. Additional wraps which = additional legs in the system increase the strength = to the # of legs multiplied by the webbings inherent tensile strength.
NetDoc
November 30th, 2004, 07:50 PM
Yeah but... how do I tie it???
NetDoc
November 30th, 2004, 07:52 PM
Nevermind... Beer Knot (http://beerknot.20m.com/)
NOW I understand it.
ShakaZulu
November 30th, 2004, 07:58 PM
Why don't they de-burr the Dive Rite BP in the first place???
The Kraken
November 30th, 2004, 08:32 PM
Hey, Shaka, I de-burr all the ones I make with a file and by hand. There are no sharp edges anywhere to abrade the webbing.
Nothing beats good old fashioned craftsmanship.
ShakaZulu
November 30th, 2004, 08:34 PM
Hey, Shaka, I de-burr all the ones I make with a file and by hand. There are no sharp edges anywhere to abrade the webbing.
Nothing beats good old fashioned craftsmanship.
I may have to do the same to mine, it's already cutting my webbing.
NetDoc
November 30th, 2004, 08:37 PM
Burrs are one thing, but the edges almost need to be beveled a bit as well. Maybe a 0.03125" radius... not much.
Sideband
December 2nd, 2004, 01:14 AM
Nevermind... Beer Knot (http://beerknot.20m.com/)
NOW I understand it.
I'd have given the link, but like I said earlier, I think that is the only page on the web that shows it and it was down when I looked. I did describe it though.
