Should C-Cards Expire?

I just took a biennial flight review (required every two years for pilots to be able to exercise the privilages of their license) the other day, which got me to thinking....should scuba c-cards expire or have similar limitations put on them?

I think so. After seeing some divers who are clearly not very proficient. Nothing stops someone from taking a hiatus for several years from diving and then going out on a boat trip somewhere. Very few operators that I've been with check logbooks in addition to c-cards. I think that you should be required to go to a yearly pool session with an instructor or DM to prove that you still know basic skills. It would also be a good time to review diving knowledge, focusing on any new innovations in diving that the person may not know about.

I don't know if that's feasible though considering the amount of agencies that would all have to agree to it. What do you all think?

Part of me thinks it make sense...then...the skeptical side of me...thinks it is only another way to make some money.

Who is pushing this idea anyway....PADI???? If so, then i know its just to make money.

I have seen people get upset because some divemaster wants them to do a mask clearing or something like that before they will allow them on the boat....to me....that is just a result of our lawyer lets take everyone to court society.

If the cost were under $20 for a new card I would have no problem....or....if they were like every 5 years or so....but not $200 every year. That is just a plain rip off.

PatrickM98 once bubbled...
I just took a biennial flight review (required every two years for pilots to be able to exercise the privilages of their license) the other day, which got me to thinking....should scuba c-cards expire or have similar limitations put on them?

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I went sailing today. I don't have any certification. I don't have to show any certification to go skiing. Any idiot can attempt to climb any mountain.

How those activities differ from flying or driving is that the danger to others is minimal. The danger to others in scuba is minimal.

Expiring certifications is a bad idea.

RICHinNC once bubbled...
If the cost were under $20 for a new card I would have no problem....or....if they were like every 5 years or so....but not $200 every year. That is just a plain rip off.

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The point isn't about charging for the new card, it's about spending time with an instructor every so often reviewing skills and learning new things. I would guess that the cost would be the same as one of those 'scuba tune-up' classes, about $50.

Personally, I would find it unfortunate if someone considered it a rip-off to spend $50 for time with an instructor to gain proficiency. There's always something that a diver can learn, no matter what their certification level is.

And no, I don't think PADI is pushing anything like this. IIRC, the YMCA tried it a few years ago and it was met with lots of resistance.

Charlie99 once bubbled...
How those activities differ from flying or driving is that the danger to others is minimal. The danger to others in scuba is minimal.

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If a diver crashes into the bottom, he's not taking out an apartment building at the same time. Ok, maybe some coral.

There is some risk to the buddy - but unless you've been coerced into diving together on boats with a no-solo policy (hmm, here's a thought - don't do boat trips by yourself if you don't want to buddy with a stranger), you should know your potential buddy's experience levels and be able to make the choice to/to not dive with them.

Leave it up to evolution. The gene pool is fairly self-cleansing.

Doesn't really address the poor divers though from damaging the environment.

Leave it up to evolution. The gene pool is fairly self-cleansing.

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Oh if this were only true. All the gene pools that produce stupid people would die out.

I agree with Scubaroo, but my only thoughts are to the rescue people that put their lives in danger risking those that don't excercise good judgement.

my only thoughts are to the rescue people that put their lives in danger risking those that don't excercise good judgement.

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This is one of the key points for me. If incompetent "certified" divers only put themselves at risk, I'd say let 'em sink....

However, having been in a couple of emergency situations with my buddies, I think that it benefits the diving community to have as high a percentage as possible of skilled and experienced divers. (The goal here!)

One would hope that responsible divers would demonstrate good judgement in assessing their personal skills and experience as the best possible situation.

Being a medical professional who has to do significant continuing education and actually formally retest every 6 years, I can tell you that "Recertification" is no guarantee of competence.

What a joke. I think most agencies and certainly some of the magazines these days are all for it. Nobody that I know of has been more vocal about the poor skills of divers than me. However, I have also been vocal about the poor training. The fact is that most instructors I see can't dive for crap and flat out haven't got a clue. I don't think most of them should be handing out cards to begin with let alone deciding who keeps them.

The answer is good initial training. Fix that first.
Actually I'm all for doing away with "the C card". That would put divers in a position where they would only buy training if it was really of benefit rather than just handing over a couple hundred bucks just to get a card and not caring whether the training was any good or not. It would put all the shlocks out of business in short order.

To the devil with c-cards and most of the non-diving idiots who are handing them out.

Just my opijnion of course.

MikeFerrara once bubbled...

The answer is good initial training. Fix that first.
Actually I'm all for doing away with "the C card". That would put divers in a position where they would only buy training if it was really of benefit rather than just handing over a couple hundred bucks just to get a card and not caring whether the training was any good or not. It would put all the shlocks out of business in short order.

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I'm not sure I completely agree with this, although I do concur with your basic sentiment. I do think that improving initial training is definitely the key, but I'm thinking that the only thing that would change by getting rid of c-cards would be more accidents by idiots who didn't know any better thinking they could "teach themselves" and just save the money of training.

The problem, as I see it, is that diving is one of those things where you don't know what you don't know, until you already know it, if that makes sense. So, a beginner with no knowledge other than "I want to see the pretty fishes and breathe under water" wouldn't (and doesn't) know what to look for in a good instructor until they're already halfway throgh a class and realize that "something's not right". I think that, if you get rid of c-cards, more people will just be inclined to think "diving can't be that difficult - you don't even need a certifcation to be allowed to do it" and forego any instruction, rather than seeking out quality. The people who will be starting to dive and wanting to pay for the instruction / guidance still won't be any better directed or educated to find good instruction, but you'd be creating a market where instructors would be even less needed, and therefore forced to sell their services even cheaper (if that's possible) than now to attract students, and would result in even worse quality in instruction.

I voted to leave the system as it is. Although I know that there are some negatives to this, I think that the agencies (or at least the PADI class I took - can't say for the others, but I think they all do) make a point to stress the importance of continued education and refreshers if your skills are out of date. I believe that there really is a need for everyone to have a sense of personal responsibility for the diving that they are doing, and just following their training in keeping skills current or scheduling a session with an instructor to make them so - I don't need another regulatory body telling me I have to do this, and if I fail to do so and something happens, then that's my own fault.

Don't know if this makes sense - it's hot and I'm tired and cranky because the water is warm this weekend and i'm not in it , so if I misunderstood, blame it on the fact that I had a bad dive last weekend and have to wait untilnext week to get in the water again.

i voted yes, cards should expire, however, i do not think the diver needs to do the same course all over again, that makes no sense. As of yet GUE is the only training organisation who's cards have an expiration date, as far as i know you have to log a certain number of dives at certain level, not sure of details, to make sure you stay proficient at the skills needed to dive at 'that' level. What is unclear to me at this point is how this can really be enforced, you cant guard against idiots that just invent dives to fill their logbook. So in principle i think it is a great idea but i dont know how to really implement it......

just my 3 cents..