Jet Fin vs Rocket Fin

[Nemrod]

It is often my belief that people confuse these two fins. I hear it all the time, I used those once and they were too stiff, stiff as boards etc and recently it comes up again. Rocket Fins are not deserving of the name at all and they are among the worst fins ever made whereas the Jet Fin is among the very best if not the best and the choice of serious divers the world over for four decades. Here are a few pictures, first a comparison of the one size fits all USD Rocket Fin circa 1975ish vs ScubaPro Super Jet XL circa 1978ish:

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b395/JRWJR/Scuba%20Stuff/DSCF0006.jpg

As you can see, they really do not look alike at all and the vents on the Rocket are upside down!

Ok, stiffness, no, no, no, the Jet Fin is not a stiff fin, that is why they work so well and are so completely different from the Rocket which is in fact, stiff as a 2X4. First is a picture of the Jet Fin hanging under it's own weight at about 1/3 blade:

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b395/JRWJR/Scuba%20Stuff/DSCF0004-1.jpg

Now a picture of a Rocket Fin hanging on it's own weight, again about 1/3 of the blade:

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b395/JRWJR/Scuba%20Stuff/DSCF0005-1.jpg

Having used both fins extensively, these are MY fins BTW, I have owned them since new, the Jet Fin is not a stiff fin and is nothing like the Rocket fin in any way other than some distant similarity in terms of shape when viewed from about 100 yards. Not the same fin at all in any way :no:.

Jet Fins, over and over, in swim tests against virtually every type of fin come out on top or at the top, they are the universal, do everything well fin for scuba divers. The Jet has the perfect blend of stiffness, a supple blade to allow fine control and effortless speed and plenty of backbone down near the foot pocket for digging in under heavy load as in swimming a scuba diver against a current or frog kicking. The Jet will not fold up like so many fins when kicked hard or over kicked--if you can even over kick them--they just keep delivering thrust! The supple tip carries the energy of the kick through increasing the efficiency of the Jet. I know of no fin that combines the capabilities of the Jet. Some like the Quatrro are as powerful, some like the UDT frog kick as well, splits are as fast, FF are as maneuverable but NONE of them combine all of the attributes of top performance into one fin except for the ScubaPro Jet Fin, the choice of more serious divers the world over since the early 60s. The Jet Fin, then, now, thirty years from now it is highly unlikely it will be dethroned as the worlds best all around scuba diver flipper.

N

[Scuba Cowboy]

Yep, no doubt about it, the Jet is the best fin on the planet. I've tried a lot of others over the years and keep coming back to Jets. My pair of Rockets are hanging on the wall where they belong.

[Nemrod]

There is one other thing about Jet Fins, they are also factually the worlds toughest fin. They require no care, they are as tough as a truck tire and can last a lifetime.

Just in case, I have a spare pair of XLs. Maybe if these ever wear out I will use them, if not I will leave them to my great nephew, yet unborn. They are going to be twins so maybe I should buy another set so they both can have a set, hmmmm.

The first thing I do when I meet a diver is check his/her fins out, if I see some Jets with battle scars, yeah, I will dive with you.

Jet Fins are vintage, Jet Fins are modern, Jet Fins are state of the art, Jet Fins FOREVER.

N

[Blue Sparkle]

Aha, interesting.

My first snorkeling gear was stuff I bought at a garage sale. It included (what I now know are) Rocket fins. I appreciated the toughness, and that I could wear them with booties, but... ow, ow, ow, my legs! I bought a pair of full-foot fins and on I went.

But then I got into diving and people said "Oh, those are classics; they're great fins!" So I went back to using them. Also, my feet were cold in the full-foot fins I owned. But...ow.

So, maybe you've just explained it, because mine are an old pair of Rocket Fins by U.S. Divers.

They are tough; I'll give them that! But it sounds like I might enjoy trying a pair of Jet Fins.

(I did rent a more modern pair of open-heeled fins last time I went diving; much less painful but I have not yet bought anything to replace the rocket fins for wearing with booties.)

B.

PS: I did kind of wonder why they fit me, since they were obviously made during a time when they would not have been sized for women. Strange how they are so small for a one-size-fits-all-men type size. Maybe they were supposed to be worn with bare feet?

[Jim Lapenta]

I'm not sure about that but there are ones with bigger foot pockets. They are known as the Super Rockets. I have a pair of both. No jets but I like my Hollis F1's and Aqualung Blades. And using Nemrod's test the Hollis's have the same amount of flex as the Jets.

[Blue Sparkle]

I'm not sure about that but there are ones with bigger foot pockets. They are known as the Super Rockets.

So how do you find the Super Rockets? Do they have that stiff-board feel that makes your legs go "ow!"? (I can't actually remember which part of me says "ow" when I'm using them... selective memory perhaps :))*

Of course the Super Rockets might have a different flex/rubber anyway, so maybe even if you do find them fabulous, it won't directly compare to the regular rockets.

I was thinking it was just me.... now wondering if it is the fins.

B.

*I think it is either the front of my ankle right where it joins my foot, or maybe my calves. How could I have forgotten so soon?

[Nemrod]

So how do you find the Super Rockets? Do they have that stiff-board feel that makes your legs go "ow!"? (I can't actually remember which part of me says "ow" when I'm using them... selective memory perhaps :))*

Of course the Super Rockets might have a different flex/rubber anyway, so maybe even if you do find them fabulous, it won't directly compare to the regular rockets.

I was thinking it was just me.... now wondering if it is the fins.

B.

*I think it is either the front of my ankle right where it joins my foot, or maybe my calves. How could I have forgotten so soon?

Super Rockets were a slightly longer version of the Rocket that was as bad or worse than the Rocket in my picture. I had some of those too and am very familiar with them. I lost one of them in Gulf I think it was around 1975.

BlueSparkle probably needs some Jets. There again, what I call a "Super" Jet is just the old name for the Jet in XL size. As the Jet moves from Large size to XL size the blade gets longer. The M and L size Jets swim very similar to the Jet XL but just smaller and slightly less powerful.

I hear tell the Jet is out with a new size, what was XXL is now XXXL and there is a new XXL size.

Let me say it again, Rocket Fins of any sort, be they the Mini-Rocket, Rocket or Super-Rocket are possibly the worst fins ever made and Jet Fins are possibly the best all around scuba fins ever made.

N

[Blue Sparkle]

I think I got it this time, Nemrod :)

(Seriously, thanks for posting this. I kept hearing how great my [Rocket] fins were, and wondering what was wrong with me.)

[Gillty]

There are still quite a few folks out there that believe Jets and Rockets dive similarly. Here is what happened to me.

I used split fins for the first several years after I started diving. I liked the splitfins but never really knew anything about other fins and never even questioned why I chose splits in the first place.

I eventually ran into scubaboard and then found all the posts about how jet fins were great and I thought hmm...I ought to try some. I was talking to a friend about it and he was like yeah I have some Rocket fins and they dive just like the Jets, you can take them to the pool and try em out if you want. So I go down to the pool and swim a couple of laps in the rockets and HATED them.

So at that point I'm thinking, if the Jets are just like Rockets I don't even want to try them. A year or more goes by and I still see the lovefest for Jets on scubaboard, I finally decide to try out a pair of Jets and the difference between them and Rockets was HUGE.

Since then I have exclusively dove the Jetfins with a recent short stint in the Hollis F1s. The only complaint I have with Jets is that the foot pocket digs into the top of my foot and causes quite a bit of discomfort when I'm drysuit diving with thick socks and turbo soles.

[duckbill]

James, I completely agree with you that the Jets are much, much better than the Rockets.

However, to be fair, you really need to show the flex of a standard Jet compared to the standard Rocket. Of course the longer SuperJet will flex more, just by virtue of it's length. Not fair. That said, I know the Jet would still win!

Also, you had me going to double check mine. What made you say the jet ports on the Rocket fins are upside down? The ports on both my Jets and Rockets direct the water the same way- to the rear on the downstroke.

[sam miller]

A post on the same general subject from long ago. This should supply some of the answers to some of the buring questions...

<<Nem "Ya all gona be at Portage Quarry in August?" looking forward to seeing you again>>>

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


The Jets first appeared on the American scene in the JYC movie "World with out sun"

The were rejected by US Divers in favor of the ill fated and very short lived "Caravelle."

A very new struggling company called Scuba Pro imported the Jets from France..where they were designed. Jets were an immediate success on the American market by the beginner and novice divers of the era.

US Divers introduced the Rockets a stiff fin with a slot in the blade; a copy of the Jets. They were produced in Santa Ana plant. Arnie Broshinki was in charge of molding..In 1976 were made in Red, White and Blue and several pairs were made for selected divers with red, white and blue flames -ala a hot rod flames.

Other long forgotten companies followed suit with fins with fins with slots--ie Sportsways with the 707 etc

Scuba Pro obtained the rights and molded Jets in their Compton, California facility under the late Karl Kaiser, who later established IDI.

The Jets had a patentable feature; the overlapping surfaces referred to as a thrust acceleration feature; all the other copies had holes in the fins.

I952 Captain Walt Mazzone perform the fist fin test for USN --the recently introduced Ducks designed by Laguna Beach Diver Al "Brownie" Brown were superior. Walt is still kicking!!!

1955 the late LA Co Instructor Bill Barada did a fin test- the Ducks were in every way superior

Dr. Tony Christensen performed very extensive fin performance test at UCLA. Best fin was Duck Foot, followed by a US Diver Aqua Lung, then Jets and some were down the line Rockets.

Several years later, Son Dr Sam IV performed a series of fin test with out the stiff blade Ducks & Aqua lung, the best over all was the Plana, followed by the Jets and down the line the Rockets.

The best over all fin was the very early gum rubber Duck Foot made by Spearfisherman of Laguna Beach, then the Swimaster Voit models, followed by the early Planas, Jets and way down was the Rockets.

Ten years ago I published a rather extensive three part article in Historical Diver called "A short history of Fins" Tracing fin development from long forgotten Havlor Olsen to De Courlier (S) to Churchhill to many long forgotten but keystone designs of the 1930- to 1990s.

I would, for divers of today, consider the Jets the best performing fin on the market.

Dr. Sam, 111

Cheers from a hot CenCal,

sdm

[Blue Sparkle]

Anyone want to buy a pair of Rockets? ;)

[SurDo2]

I like Rockets more than Jets... That being said, I thinks they swim almost the same.

But that's just me.

[Nemrod]

James, I completely agree with you that the Jets are much, much better than the Rockets.

However, to be fair, you really need to show the flex of a standard Jet compared to the standard Rocket. Of course the longer SuperJet will flex more, just by virtue of it's length. Not fair. That said, I know the Jet would still win!

Also, you had me going to double check mine. What made you say the jet ports on the Rocket fins are upside down? The ports on both my Jets and Rockets direct the water the same way- to the rear on the downstroke.

I ought to weigh them. But, still, I think it is fair, 1/3 of a blade is 1/3 of a blade. One is stiff like a board, one has plenty of flex as clearly seen. I could have moved to 50% position with the Jet and it would still flex more than a Rocket held on the tip. Rockets are a very stiff fin, Jets are not stiff at all by comparison.

What I mean by upside down, I did not say what I meant, lol, I mean the curve is wrong, it is backwards or maybe my brain is backwards today. The camber is the lift side, it should be facing the direction of travel.

N

[hawksbill]

Thanks Nemrod and Sam Miller for the info and history, this confirms what I have suspected. Most of my dives have been in the XL Jets and I have never been inclined to change in 25 years. Still using the original pair with rubber straps although, I have had to change the straps at least 4 times now. Recently I bought a pair of mares full foot super channel fins for warm water snorkelling and travel as they are much lighter than the Jets but I have not gotten to use them for scuba yet just in the pool and they are nice and light but for my heavy drysuit gear I would want the Jets for sure.

[DennisW]

I've tried Rockets just for the heck of it. Never again. I have also tried split fins. They were ok, but fluttered when you kicked hard. To me, that means they are losing the thrust you are trying to achieve, so back to the Jets. Oh yes, Jets are relatively inexpensive when you look at all of the fancy fins out there.

BTW, Jeanie Tagge actually finally wore out her Jets. I don't know how old they were, but she got them when she was in college (I think). She wore a hole in the foot pocket right where her big toe sits.

[Walter]

However, to be fair, you really need to show the flex of a standard Jet compared to the standard Rocket. Of course the longer SuperJet will flex more, just by virtue of it's length. Not fair. That said, I know the Jet would still win!

There is no "SuperJet." There are Jet Fins and Lightning Jet Fins. Lightning Jet Fins are all that have been made since the late 70s. Jet Fins without the lightning bolt are fairly rare these days and both types are usually referred to as Jet Fins.

[sam miller]

FYI
Jet fins have a density of 1.03--Same as sea water.

Rockets unknown -but suspect higher density

[olkev]

There are Jet Fins and Lightning Jet Fins. Lightning Jet Fins are all that have been made since the late 70s. Jet Fins without the lightning bolt are fairly rare these days and both types are usually referred to as Jet Fins.

Somebody tell me if I am dreaming . . . I thought I saw a thread somewhere, here or some other board, that talked about the difference between the "Lightning Jets" and the "Jets". I can't seem to recall if it was in regard to the compounding of the rubber or what but there was a difference, maybe slight.

Can anybody discuss the difference between the two? Is one really more desirable than the other or is the latest and greatest the same as the original?

[Nemrod]

Somebody tell me if I am dreaming . . . I thought I saw a thread somewhere, here or some other board, that talked about the difference between the "Lightning Jets" and the "Jets". I can't seem to recall if it was in regard to the compounding of the rubber or what but there was a difference, maybe slight.

Can anybody discuss the difference between the two? Is one really more desirable than the other or is the latest and greatest the same as the original?

The earlier Jets did not have the lightening bolt insignia, functionally they should be the same or at least very similar. It matters probably only to Vintage Era Equipment Divers who are trying to be period correct.

Sorry Walter, I have always called the XL Jet the Super Jet as I have encountered that term many times during the 70s when I worked in a ScubaPro shop, thank you, to distinguish the fact the the size XL is considerably larger in blade than size L and less. I agree, the term has fallen into disfavor long ago. I imagine it came into usage because the larger foot pocket Rocket was called the "Super" Rocket and like I said, I lost one of those on the Timberholes in about 1974 and I replaced them with Super Jets :kiss2:.

Hawksbill, you have done the same thing as me, I bought my wife some Mares Avanti X3 and we have been so impressed with them that I am getting me some. The reason is they are very light weight, they have a shorter blade that fits well in our "reduced" and downsized travel bag (two divers outfits in one bag). Outfitted with spring straps they are a nice fin. The X3 has been discontinued and replaced by the, uh, I think they call it the "Super" Channel kind of like "Super" Jet.:rofl3:

N

[David Wilson]

I'd also like to thank Sam for his message #11 about the history of fins. I'd like to add a little more historical information:

Jet Fins were originally designed by the French diving equipment company Beuchat, headquartered in the French Mediterranean port of Marseilles. Beuchat's original "Jetfin" version was a full-foot, closed-heel design, with an additional heel strap for a secure fitting:

http://www.sukellusmuseo.fi/kuvat/rapylat/jet3.jpg

Throughout the sixties, in Europe where they were invented, full-foot fins were considered top of the line when it came to fins and priced accordingly much higher than open-heels. I've read somewhere that the largest-sized Beuchat Jetfins were manufactured as open-heels because making them full-foots would have resulted in them being prohibitively expensive.

Moving on to the modern era, a YouTube video appears to show Scubapro Jet Fins being assembled in an unnamed factory. Online research suggests that the factory in question belongs to Pacific Molding Inc of Corona, California (pacificmolding.com (http://www.pacificmolding.com/)). You can watch the video for yourself at

YouTube - How is made - Scuba Dive Rubber Fins (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zgQ7pOUtpS4)

The pale-blue fins in the initial sequence appear to be Oceanways Aquapros. There is evidence that UDT Duck Feet are also manufactured in the Pacific Molding facility now that their moulds have been repatriated from Mexico to the USA by Greg Deets:

AllAboutSurf.com - An Interactive Surf Magazine (http://www.allaboutsurf.com/articles/deets?pg=1)

Hope this additional information is of interest to somebody.

[Nemrod]

Early pre lightening bolt Jets:

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b395/JRWJR/Scuba%20ads/69229C754DA54EC48C4C7D323A225652.jpg

Lightening bolt Jets:

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b395/JRWJR/Scuba%20ads/5610_1.jpg

Fins:

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b395/JRWJR/Scuba%20ads/fins.jpg

N

[John C. Ratliff]

I will have to agree with Duckbill that there is a big difference between the original Jet Fin and the Lightning Jet Fin. They have a difference in formulation and stiffness, as well as overall size. The Lightning Jet Fin is far superior to the original Jet Fin. The Rocket Fin was competing with the original Jet Fin when it came out, and so should be judged by that.

I would also agree with Dr. Sam Miller that the original Duck Feet fins by Swimaster were superior to the Jet Fins. Here's a very old US Navy photo of diver using the Duckfeet fins:
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y76/yaquinaguy/NavyDiverwithDuckfeet.jpg
Note the cupping, or "scooping" action of the fin. This is along the lines of my Scoop Fins, which I developed in the late 1960s and still use today. The Mares Quattro Plus is close, and I hear they have a new fin, the Wave, which incorporates most of the scoop attributes. Here is a photo I took in 1970 in Alexander Springs State Park of the scoop concept. Note that this concept works both on the upstroke and the downstroke:
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y76/yaquinaguy/VikingwithScoopFinMod.jpg

But back to the Lightning Jet Fin; I have done extensive testing, and the Lightning Jet Fin is great on the downstroke, but stalls badly on the upstroke. This is a direct result of the overlapping blades and the design which makes a very large "dead space" on the fin where the overlap occurs on the upstroke. Here is a comparison photo of my latest version of the Scoop Fin with the Lightning Jet Fin:
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y76/yaquinaguy/Avanti-ScoopJetFin.jpg

I have a pair of Rocket Fins in the garage, and will get them out in a few minutes, after supper (priorities, you know).

SeaRat

[dumpsterDiver]

I started with the Dacor Turbo fins. Unvented, stiff and probably performed somewhere between the Rocket and the jet fin. I've moved to full foot freedive fins after using jet fins for around 10-15 yrs. I've broken at least 5-6 jet fins over the years, but I can be very tough on gear.

I'm quite confident that the long freedive fins are better, especially my rather expensive fiberlass composite blade fins, but I still have the jets around if I needed to dive with a very heavy boot.

The full foot, freedive fins are harder to put on and take off, are trouble on some ladders, a total pain on a small boat, probably more fragile than a jet fin, but once you get in the water, they work noticably better than jet fins for me. They are also much less likely to get tagled in line, compared to a jet fin.

[Nemrod]

UDT fins:

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b395/JRWJR/Scuba%20ads/31.jpg

The Dacor fins were more like the Rockets, stiff as a board.

Jet Fins:

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b395/JRWJR/Scuba%20ads/jet_turbineA1.jpg

N

[John C. Ratliff]

I just looked to two pair of Dacor Turbo; I have the Turbo II and the Turbo III, and neither of them are very good. They are actually stiffer at this age than are my USD Rocket fins. The Rockets were pretty good, but probably not quite where the original Jet Fins were performance-wise. I also have two pair of the original Duck Feet fins, and they are very, very good fins. I used to wear them upside down, which you could not do with the AMF Voit Duckfeet, which were the successor when Swimaster (Spearfisherman) was bought by AMF Voit. Swimaster apparently destroyed the original dies for the Duck Feet, so that they could not be reproduced. But Nemrod is correct about the Rocket being a fairly stiff fin. While not as stiff as the Dacor Turbo, it nevertheless was too stiff for very good performance.

Dumpsterdiver, I just brought my monofin back out of the storage shed, and will put it back into the water. When you start talking about the long bifins with plastic or fiberglass blades, you are talking about a whole different level of fin from the vented fins, and a different propulsive concept. These fins, and the monofin, are built on the "S" curve concept, rather than either the displacement or scoop concept. I still like the scoop concept better, but the long bifins are comparable in my opinion. By the way, for those who don't know, the reason that these full-foot fins or closed heel strap fins (like the Duck Feet or USD Aqualung, which is also a very good fin) doesn't hook on the lines is that they don't have a buckle. That's all--just smooth rubber.

SeaRat

[John C. Ratliff]

For those interested, here's the drawings of the Murdock patent upon which the concept of the scoop fin is based--and the reason I don't have a patent on the concept.
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y76/yaquinaguy/MurdockPatent.jpg

SeaRat

[duckbill]

Jetfins are all I dive anymore. I also have a pair of the X-Large "Superjets". The Supers are fine for cruising around, but I found them a bit much for my scrawny legs when kicking against river currents. The regular Jetfins are perfect. I did crack a pair at the side spine, so I had to get out of the habit of standing on the tips or using them to dig in against the current.

[Texfrazer]

One of the more interesting things I did when I first discovered the Jet (or lightning jet, to be more precise), was to borrow one of a buddies and used it with one of my standard fins. It was really funny, I swam in circles!

From there on out, I have used jets.

Personal, head-to-head tests - always the best determining factor, when you can do it.

[Nemrod]

I was never sold on the scoop idea. Jet Fins do not scoop. I think the only manufacturer that gets into the scooping concept is Mares and a few other off brands like this:

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b395/JRWJR/Scuba%20ads/F-22-B.jpg

I don't want to scoop ice-cream, I want to propel forward or backward or sideways which Jets do very well. That said, I just got some Mares Avanti X3 on closeout for nothing, they have the typical Mares scoop design, similar to the Quatrro but with a shorter blade. I want them for a travel fin. My wife likes hers, we shall see.

I think some fin designs, like the split thing, work very well for one type of kick and one type of diving. I kind of put scooping fin designs there, a good paddle design like the Jet with it's ribbed flat blade is an all around do everything well fin. Which is why Jets are best!

N

[dumpsterDiver]

When you discuss the jet fins, you also have to consider the size and strength of the person as well as the foot size and fin size. sometimes it is hard to match all three factors.

The regualr SP jet fin size Large fits my 11 size feet well with thin boots on. However, the blade size is too small for me, not a great fin for me, too weak. The larger and much heavier XL Jets, have significantly more power and propel me pretty well, but the foot pocket is too large unless I wear a 7 mm boot, plus I honestly think they are heavier than they need to be.

The jet fin also has a relatively uncomfortable foot pocket. I have even resorted to wiring a 7 mm piece of wetsuit material inside the top of the foot pocket (size XL) which makes the pocket fit better and reduces the wear and tear on my toes.

The full footfin is still much more comfortable on the foot however.

[Nemrod]

When you discuss the jet fins, you also have to consider the size and strength of the person as well as the foot size and fin size. sometimes it is hard to match all three factors.

The regualr SP jet fin size Large fits my 11 size feet well with thin boots on. However, the blade size is too small for me, not a great fin for me, too weak. The larger and much heavier XL Jets, have significantly more power and propel me pretty well, but the foot pocket is too large unless I wear a 7 mm boot, plus I honestly think they are heavier than they need to be.

The jet fin also has a relatively uncomfortable foot pocket. I have even resorted to wiring a 7 mm piece of wetsuit material inside the top of the foot pocket (size XL) which makes the pocket fit better and reduces the wear and tear on my toes.

The full foot fin is still much more comfortable on the foot however.

I guess I never really felt the Jet was that large or heavy especially once in the water and I ain't big or especially strong. But it is true what you say, you have to match the fin to the person and the use.

I used to agree with the full foot fin but I have a wide foot with a high arch and most full foot fins really hurt my feet so I went back to open heel fins. Well, I never left the Jet, just for more casual diving used full foot fins, especially for on a boat but I just cannot find any that work well and fit. The Power Planas Graphite are my last set of full foot fins, used them for a long time but they just were not getting it done for me on a dive last year in current and a long shore swim. They kept folding under from heavy kicking. So, I threw them away, they gone. Back to the Jets, the fin I love to hate and hate to love--but they work.

N

[Walter]

When you discuss the jet fins, you also have to consider the size and strength of the person as well as the foot size and fin size. sometimes it is hard to match all three factors.

The regualr SP jet fin size Large fits my 11 size feet well with thin boots on. However, the blade size is too small for me, not a great fin for me, too weak. The larger and much heavier XL Jets, have significantly more power and propel me pretty well, but the foot pocket is too large unless I wear a 7 mm boot, plus I honestly think they are heavier than they need to be.

The jet fin also has a relatively uncomfortable foot pocket. I have even resorted to wiring a 7 mm piece of wetsuit material inside the top of the foot pocket (size XL) which makes the pocket fit better and reduces the wear and tear on my toes.

The full footfin is still much more comfortable on the foot however.

It may work that way for you, not for me.

I can't imagine a size 11 fitting in a large Jet. I have two sets of Jets. I have a large which I use with thin boots and an XL which I use with thick boots. I wear a size 9 (US) shoe.

When I switch between the L and the XL, I cannot tell any difference in power.

As for being too heavy, they are slightly negative in sea water. With my boots in the foot pockets, they are neutral in sea water. To my way of thinking, that makes them the perfect weight.

[dumpsterDiver]

I guess I never really felt the Jet was that large or heavy especially once in the water and I ain't big or especially strong. But it is true what you say, you have to match the fin to the person and the use.

I used to agree with the full foot fin but I have a wide foot with a high arch and most full foot fins really hurt my feet so I went back to open heel fins. Well, I never left the Jet, just for more casual diving used full foot fins, especially for on a boat but I just cannot find any that work well and fit. The Power Planas Graphite are my last set of full foot fins, used them for a long time but they just were not getting it done for me on a dive last year in current and a long shore swim. They kept folding under from heavy kicking. So, I threw them away, they gone. Back to the Jets, the fin I love to hate and hate to love--but they work.

N

I have a pair of those fins. Still pretty good shape...know know why??? they are close to worthless. I would sell them for $10 if I found someone who wants them.

There are much, much better full foot fins.

[John C. Ratliff]

I guess I never really felt the Jet was that large or heavy especially once in the water and I ain't big or especially strong. But it is true what you say, you have to match the fin to the person and the use.

I used to agree with the full foot fin but I have a wide foot with a high arch and most full foot fins really hurt my feet so I went back to open heel fins. Well, I never left the Jet, just for more casual diving used full foot fins, especially for on a boat but I just cannot find any that work well and fit. The Power Planas Graphite are my last set of full foot fins, used them for a long time but they just were not getting it done for me on a dive last year in current and a long shore swim. They kept folding under from heavy kicking. So, I threw them away, they gone. Back to the Jets, the fin I love to hate and hate to love--but they work.
N
Nemrod,

I understand where you are coming from, but realize that these fins (the Power Planas Graphite) perform differently in different waters. You were probably in relatively warm water. You may also have had them out in a boat in very warm conditions. In these conditions, the plastic will do what you say. But you transport those same fins here to Oregon, and you will see a completely different set of fin performances out of the same fins.

Now, if you are judging the scoop performance on the Mares concept fins, even the Quattra, then you have not yet experienced the scoop fin. Do I hear you wanting to try out a pair?

SeaRat

[Nemrod]

Nemrod,

I understand where you are coming from, but realize that these fins (the Power Planas Graphite) perform differently in different waters. You were probably in relatively warm water. You may also have had them out in a boat in very warm conditions. In these conditions, the plastic will do what you say. But you transport those same fins here to Oregon, and you will see a completely different set of fin performances out of the same fins.

Now, if you are judging the scoop performance on the Mares concept fins, even the Quattra, then you have not yet experienced the scoop fin. Do I hear you wanting to try out a pair?

SeaRat

LOL, I think my Planas are just worn out, nothing more. Like I said, I got a new pair of Avanti X3 on the way.

Uh, scoop fins, well, I tired to make some to play with but mine were not all that successful, faulty engineering most likely ;).

John, there is a new Mares fin called the Wave and it looks exactly like your scoop concept.

N

[Texfrazer]

The regualr SP jet fin size Large fits my 11 size feet well with thin boots on. However, the blade size is too small for me, not a great fin for me, too weak. The larger and much heavier XL Jets, have significantly more power and propel me pretty well, but the foot pocket is too large unless I wear a 7 mm boot, plus I honestly think they are heavier than they need to be.

I wear a size 13 or 14 (depending upon the shoe), so it's always been the XL for me (which fit well). I can certainly see a smaller foot having difficulty with the foot pocket on the XL's.

[firstdive2005]

I just sold my Tusa Zoom splits in Cozumel to someone that dives differently than me. I use Jets and Force fin pros. I love the Jets when I'm going into confined space. Every kick or propulsion need is available with ease with this fin. The Jets if I dive a lot with them on a holiday will produce cramps. I need to strech them out alot and eventually stop using them for several days. This is why I carry the Force fins. They are a dream to use as far a ease on my legs. Great speed when I need it. Can do any propulsion kick but I feel awkward with them in the caves not a proper fin for sure in a confined space for me. But when I dive in the open ocean or lake I love the Force fin for comfort. They even beat my splits for comfort. Several friends of mine like the Force fins for comfort on sore joints so they have switched over after testing them. They dont go into confined areas. Also the Force fin is a joy on a small boat for walking and donning with bungy straps.
I am really impressed with the Jets for precision movement and the sense that I know exaclty where the end of my fin is so I dont kick a wall/ceiling/stalactite if I'm in a tight spot.

[duckbill]

firstdive2005, which size Jets were you using. The larger blade XL style were a bit much for my legs, too. But the regular sized Jets work just fine for me. Just curious.

When I do dive the "Super Jets", I stuff a piece of neporene down into the toes.

[hawksbill]

Footwear may make a big difference when diving the Lightning Jet Fin or other foot pocket fin. My first 15 years in the Jet Fin I wore a DUI TLS 350 drysuit with turbo soles boots that are thin and flexible. That was OK but my next TLS suit came with size 10 "rock boots" which are really just a cheap chinese sneaker worn over the suits crushed neoprene sock. Anyway, the rock boots were much more solid and stiff and being larger they fit very snug into the foot pocket of the XL Jet fins. This provided a very solid connection between the boot and the fin, so much so that I could have easily done without the fin strap and would not have really noticed any lack of rigidity. What I am getting at is that by achieving a really solid fit between the fin and my foot the fin became a very solid extension of my leg with no wiggle or wobble. No play at all, just like it had grown from my leg. It may be worth trying some sneakers or other solid footwear to achieve such a rigid fit and see for yourself. This is better than any fit I have ever had with a neoprene boot which can flex much more and not provide a firm connection.

[jbrians]

I spent a week diving on Bonaire and I usually use Jets. However, given that I most often frog kick and I was taking my first camera underwater and I was trying to stay under a weight penalty on my checked baggage, I decided to take my shorter Rockets.
I used them on 23 dives over the week and I have to say, for no thrust diving....moving back and forth with bizzare fin kicks to maintain position while taking pictures they were everything I could have wanted. Remember, I was having a nostalgic experience because I bought them new about 35 yrs ago.
My eyes were opened however towards the end of the trip. 3 of us did a windward side of the island dive and there was "a bit of current". I dive with these 2 guys all the time and with my jets we are equal in propulsion and SAC rate. Cressi something or others beat me into the weeds. I used 1000 psi compared to their 500 with the swim up current before we turned around. I was completely surprised by that as I didn't realise just how badly the Rockets performed when you needed thrust.
Never again.
Nem, I'm going to look at the Mares. On your say so!

[Nemrod]

Nem, I'm going to look at the Mares. On your say so!

Hey, I am not endorsing them :eyebrow:, not yet anyhow.

I got my wife a set and she likes them and enjoys using them and they are cheap right now due to them being on closeout. They look to be made from the same materials as the Quattro and essentially the same design but with a smaller blade. We will have spring straps on them. They come in yellow, blue, black and black and white. I have the black ones. I will get them in the pool maybe this weekend. It is my plan to use them as a travel fin. I am trying to get her gear and my gear in one bag--could be a challenge.

The black ones are hard to find BTW. There is a new fin that replaces them, the Avanti Super Channel I think it is the X3s are discontinued but like I said, they are on closeout everywhere.

N

[impulse]

I have a pair of super rocket fins and I really never felt uncomfortable using them. But never tried jets. When those rockets wear out enough , I would replace them. But maybe they will never wear out, because they feel bullet proof. So far so good with my rockets. Love them :)

[Nemrod]

Anecdotal is when one says they like something because, it is not anecdotal when a swim test is performed and repeated results recorded and repeated over and over, averaged and verified, in such a case, Jets far outperform Rockets, it is not even close, we are not talking about seconds, but even minutes.

Jbrians, I got the Avanti X3 in the pool this evening after my mile lap swim. I like them I think. They are nearly as large as my Jet XL fins, but, they are two pounds lighter for a pair. That is significant for travel. I will have to do swim tests to actually prove how they perform and I am not up to that right now.
N

[Luis H]

They are nearly as large as my Jet XL fins, but, they are two pounds lighter for a pair. That is significant for travel. I will have to do swim tests to actually prove how they perform and I am not up to that right now.
N


I bought a pair of the OMS for travel purpose. I haven’t used them in the water yet, but they look just like the Jets and I think the flex is going to be fine. They weight over a pound less than my XL Jets.

Normally when I travel I take my Regular L Jets. They are smaller and lighter than the XL. The XL are mostly for my dry suit boots.

[jbrians]

I use my XL Jets for drysuit diving. The pocket is way too big to use with my 5mm boots and wetsuit so I am looking for something a bit smaller and lighter for travel and warmer water, hence the interest in Nem's post on the X3"s
A bit off topic here, but has anyone tried the Hollis fins?

[Texfrazer]

Anecdotal is when one says they like something because, it is not anecdotal when a swim test is performed and repeated results recorded and repeated over and over, averaged and verified, in such a case, Jets far outperform Rockets, it is not even close, we are not talking about seconds, but even minutes.

Jbrians, I got the Avanti X3 in the pool this evening after my mile lap swim. I like them I think. They are nearly as large as my Jet XL fins, but, they are two pounds lighter for a pair. That is significant for travel. I will have to do swim tests to actually prove how they perform and I am not up to that right now.
N

Nemrod, thanks for sharing all of your testing info! After reading about how you test (and how long you test), I am really appreciative!

Please keep us up to date on your testing as trying to pack my XL Jets and my wife's MED Jets in a suitcase, then throw in all of our other gear - even just snorkel gear - makes for quite a load! A slight reduction in efficiency for a noticeable reduction in weight might make for a better travel experience.

Thanks again!

[Frogman006]

A few years back I purchased XS SCUBA power fins FN202 4? that look like the jet fins knock offs. Anyone ever try them to see how they are compared to the original design?

[Nemrod]

Nemrod, thanks for sharing all of your testing info! After reading about how you test (and how long you test), I am really appreciative!

Please keep us up to date on your testing as trying to pack my XL Jets and my wife's MED Jets in a suitcase, then throw in all of our other gear - even just snorkel gear - makes for quite a load! A slight reduction in efficiency for a noticeable reduction in weight might make for a better travel experience.

Thanks again!

I kinda like to look for the sleeper product nobody pays any mind to. Like the Avanti X3. Which is by no means a super great fin but on closeout it is good deal. A little too stiff, a little to long but they knocked weight of my dive bag nonetheless. Still looking for the perfect travel fin. No, don't get me going on FF. I have had several pairs and I am sorry, not only do they not look vintage but they are simply not an all around fin. Good at somethings and total not at others.

Now that I am half way back into decent shape, I think the fin tests may resume come Summer or late Spring. It does no good to test when I am building up because my speeds would vary due to increased fitness. Hmmm, whatever shall I test? N

[oldmossback]

This string has been interesting reading.....brings back memorys of my jets I was given in Okinawa......for three years prior to joining the Marines, I dove with Voit Viking full foot fins........used them in Okinawa for many months until a buddy, rotating back to the states, gave me his jets.......medium size...just could fit my wetsuit bootie in it.......first time in the ocean I realized why they were called jets............dove with them for about 10 years and finally gave them to my oldest son when he moved to Calif to live with his mother......I could not find jets for sale locally and was told they were not made at that time.........this LDS tried to sell me something else.........but I declined and bought a pair of Mares Power Plana's for myself and my youngest son via a catalog ad in Skindiver Mag..........that was 1985.

I haven't used anything else since, except in Brazil two years ago, I had bought a pair of Quatros with the flex vents off ebay..........wore myself out trudging thru a 2 knot current........they went to a pawn shop..........I still use my Power Plana's as they are light and push well when I need the thrust...only problem is when under heavy thrusting, they tend to roll...I guess they need some vents like the Jets have.......

I'd like to get another set of Jets to finish my career of diving with but can not justify giving up the Plana's............these new OMS models Luis is talking about seem interesting also........

[duckbill]

.........but I declined and bought a pair of Mares Power Plana's for myself and my youngest son via a catalog ad in Skindiver Mag..........that was 1985.


I still have my Power Planas from 1985 also.:D They were the flippers I bought for certification. I use Jet Fins now, as the standard size doesn't make me cramp up like the Planas often would.

[MattCrunk]

Man, this thread has got me a bit bummed.

I've used rocket fins exclusively since I first started diving back in 1982. Except for some lightweight full-foot fins I sometimes use for snorkling, I've never dove with anything but my Rockets. What have I been missing all these years?

Maybe I should try some Jets!

[David Wilson]

Man, this thread has got me a bit bummed.

I've used rocket fins exclusively since I first started diving back in 1982. Except for some lightweight full-foot fins I sometimes use for snorkling, I've never dove with anything but my Rockets. What have I been missing all these years?

Maybe I should try some Jets!

If you like using both vented fins and full-foot fins, there are always the Free-Sub Süper Jet full-foot fins below, which are still manufactured in Turkey:

http://www.free-sub.com/urunler/paletler/big/7.jpg

Scubapro's Jet fins were developed originally by Beuchat of Marseilles in France, which designed them in the early 1960s as full-foot fins:

http://www.sukellusmuseo.fi/kuvat/rapylat/jet3.jpg

[Walter]

Maybe I should try some Jets!

You should try them.

[Nemrod]

Man, this thread has got me a bit bummed.

I've used rocket fins exclusively since I first started diving back in 1982. Except for some lightweight full-foot fins I sometimes use for snorkling, I've never dove with anything but my Rockets. What have I been missing all these years?

Maybe I should try some Jets!

I have found that shooting Rocket fins full of holes hardly has any effect upon their propulsive potential any more than shooting a cement block full of holes would make it float much better.

N

[JamesBon92007]

So far I have not heard mention of the Nemrod Venturi Fins. I'd post a pic but I can't figure out how. I bought mine a few years after Jet Fins came out and after I wasted some money on some "rocket" type fins made by Sportsways that were like having two 2 x 12 boards nailed to my feet. The Venturis channel the water from what ScubaPro called the "Dead Spot" out the tips of the fins. This made sense to me and I bought them and had not used any other fin since (well, until a couple days ago). They seem to have just the right abount of stiffness/flexibility and even still have the original straps. I liked them so much I bought another pair for my wife (mail order--way before the internet) and they were made from a much, much stiffer rubber so I sent them back. Instead she bought some "SeaSport" fins (From Laguna Seasports) which are very similar to Jet Fins but have two slots instead of three and only cost about $20 back then. They are also still good but need new straps. As for the venturi effect, if you look at the way they are made then yes, I suppose a venturi could be achieved but I think the practical benefits exist only in the minds of the engineers and the sales managers ;) Nonetheless I think moving the water out the tip instead of the back is probably a genuine improvement.

I looked everywhere and could not find instructions on how to add a pic to my post. Is it so obvious that no instructions are needed?

[simonbeans]

Presto!!!

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y206/simonbeans/Nemrodventuri1.jpg

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y206/simonbeans/Nemrodventuri2.jpg

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y206/simonbeans/Nemrodventuri3.jpg

[JamesBon92007]

Abracadabra too! Thanks simonbeans, but will someone please tell me how to do it? I'm beginning to get an inferiority complex.

[simonbeans]

Get a free Photobucket account, upload your images to photobucket, copy and paste correct format (last one below the uploaded image photo id etc ) into these "reply to thread" areas. And Presto, here they be.

Photobucket image hosting as well as the many others do not take up space on the forum's server. That are just auto links.

And, by the way. The "venturi" slots of the Nemrod fins don't work. They just become heavy, stiff paddle fins. Neat idea, too bad about the result.

[Walter]

Post them directly on ScubaBoard. Skip photobucket entirely. Lots of folks cannot see photos hosted by photobucket.

[simonbeans]

Like who can't see Photobucket links? It is a direct link and what stops you from seeing them?

[Walter]

Firewalls. Post a picture from photobucket and I see a red X. Post it on ScubaBoard and I see the photo.

[simonbeans]

Sorry about that. You have a tough firewall.

[oldmossback]

I have found that shooting Rocket fins full of holes hardly has any effect upon their propulsive potential any more than shooting a cement block full of holes would make it float much better.

N

Ah yes, but sooooo satisfying............especially with a Pistole Tejas in 44 Colt..............

[JamesBon92007]

Get a free Photobucket account, upload your images to photobucket, copy and paste correct format (last one below the uploaded image photo id etc ) into these "reply to thread" areas. And Presto, here they be.

Photobucket image hosting as well as the many others do not take up space on the forum's server. That are just auto links.

And, by the way. The "venturi" slots of the Nemrod fins don't work. They just become heavy, stiff paddle fins. Neat idea, too bad about the result.

OK. so it IS a link. I found where to "link" a photo but don't have a website so I didn't try it out. I'll look into Photobucket. Thanks.

As far as the Jet Fins idea of channeling the water from the "dead spot" (I may be mistaken but I think that was what they called it and I think the article was in Skin Diver Magazine) at least seems like it would help somewhat and by sending it out the tip of the fins *might* be a small improvement but no, I do not think for a second that if an actual venturi can get started that it would continue long enough to do any good at all. I guess I'll have to try plugging the venturi holes on one fin and see if there is a difference.

[JamesBon92007]

[url=http://www.scubaboard.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=153893][img]

If this pic shows up the Venturi is the fin on the right. But you already know that...

[David Wilson]

Do you mean this one?
77602

[JamesBon92007]

I sure made a mess out of that, to say the least. And someone was wondering why I didn't answer their personal message. Sometimes I'm amazed that I can even log onto ScubaBoard.

OK, I'm gonna try it again.... maybe not....

[JamesBon92007]

Well, that was exciting. Now if only I could find a picture of the Seasport fins. I could take one with a digital camera but I'm still trying to get my Super 8 u/w movies onto VHS so it may take a few more years.

In any case today (in my swimming pool) I compared all of my fins, in some cases with one kind on each foot, and I have to say I like the Seasport fins the best. The only other thing they say on them is "Hecho in Mexico." My wife bought them around 1983 and they were a sort-of generic thing at the LDS. I couldn't find any mention of them anywhere online with any kind of search. At least they still make Jet Fins. I have to say that for as long as I used the Venturi fins I don't really like them all that much compared to some others. They are OK but tend to put a lot of stress on the instep. I had a Jet Fin that I found on the beach and, at least at the time, the story was that ScubaPro would let you buy just one if you lost one. I don't seem to have it anymore so I probably gave it to someone else who had one.

As for the rocket-type (Sportways?) fins I left those behind with an x-girlfriend. Now I sorta wish I still had them after reading about how shooting holes in them does not improve them. That made me wonder if a 12 gauge would soften them up a bit.

[Nemrod]

OK, I recant, I did say the Rocket Fin was the worst flipper ever made but y'all went and out done me again and dug up a Nemord Venturi fin, lol, yep, those suck even worse than a Rocket.

N

[JamesBon92007]

How can you even SAY such a thing, being called "Nemrod" and all? ;)

[augk]

I still own my original 1979 Jet fins they are size medium only replaced the straps once. I will be able to give them to my daughter to use in a couple of years.77660

[mkgriesinger]

Does anyone know how jet fins compare to Piranha's Torpedo Fins???

[MattCrunk]

You should try them.

Am about to do just that. I found a vintage pair on eBay, complete with their original box, for under $50. They should be arriving any day now.

[Jaydubya]

Sorry if this was already ansered.

Exept for age and the coolness factor, is there any real difference between the vintage jets and the jets you can buy in a store today?

[David Wilson]

Well, for one thing, the original Jet Fins, those developed by the French diving equipment company Beuchat in Marseilles before Scubapro adopted them for sale in the USA, came with a full-foot fitting:
http://www.sukellusmuseo.fi/kuvat/rapylat/jet3.jpg

[scubaops]

are the BEUCHAT CONTACT GRAPHITE FINS a jet fin?
http://i.ebayimg.com/09/!BwUQGZ!Bmk~$(KGrHqV,!jMEv1+0Cq3dBMIWziH7gw~~_12.J PG

[hongrace]

Well, for one thing, the original Jet Fins, those developed by the French diving equipment company Beuchat in Marseilles before Scubapro adopted them for sale in the USA, came with a full-foot fitting:
http://www.sukellusmuseo.fi/kuvat/rapylat/jet3.jpg

hi David,

What were those Beuchat fins called? Why did they have straps as well as fullfoot pockets?

hon

[Walter]

are the BEUCHAT CONTACT GRAPHITE FINS a jet fin?

No. .

[scubaops]

No. .

:crying:

how do the scubapro jet sport fins compare to the jet fins?

[David Wilson]

hi David, What were those Beuchat fins called? Why did they have straps as well as fullfoot pockets? hon

They were simply called "Jetfin", Hon. Note how the name is all one word. I have one of their original flyers and the Jetfin is captioned "la palme à tuyères" (literally "fin with blast-pipe/nozzle") and "championne du monde (world champion)".

Several European fin designs of the late 1950s/early 1960s, notably Cressi's, featured heel straps as well as full-foot fittings. A few even came with instep straps. I imagine the purpose was to add security to the fins so that they wouldn't detach from the feet in rough waves. Another method of securing full-foot fins was a pair of fin grips, or "fixe-palmes" as they were dubbed by the original patent holder, also Beuchat of Marseilles.
http://www.marinetone.com/__ImageGrabber.axd?id=5429&c=0&d=60&w=225&h=500

A Turkish diving equipment company, Free-Sub, still retails full-foot fins with additional heel straps:
http://www.free-sub.com/urunler/paletler/big/7.jpg
Free-Sub (http://www.free-sub.com/tr/palet.html)
As you can see, it's a Jet Fin clone.

[Walter]

how do the scubapro jet sport fins compare to the jet fins?

I've never heard of Scubapro Jet Sport Fins. Sometime in the late '70s Scubapro stopped making Jet Fins and started to make Lightning Jet Fins. The difference is the blend of rubbers. You can easily tell one from the other because of the addition of a lightning bolt through the Scubapro logo. Usually Lightning Jet Fins are referred to as Jet Fins. Sometimes folks get confused because Scubapro also makes a split fin they call Twin Jets. Twin Jets are not Jet Fins.

[scubaops]

I've never heard of Scubapro Jet Sport Fins. Sometime in the late '70s Scubapro stopped making Jet Fins and started to make Lightning Jet Fins. The difference is the blend of rubbers. You can easily tell one from the other because of the addition of a lightning bolt through the Scubapro logo. Usually Lightning Jet Fins are referred to as Jet Fins. Sometimes folks get confused because Scubapro also makes a split fin they call Twin Jets. Twin Jets are not Jet Fins.

turns out they are the lighting jet fins not the original jet fins. so what difference does the different blend of rubber make? :D

[Walter]

Having never dived with the original Jet Fins, I can't say from experience. Going from memory, I believe Scubapro's old catalogs said the new blend gave the fins more power and speed. It has been over 20 years since I read the info, so don't bet the farm on it.

[David_57]

I have the Scuba Pro Jet fins and the OMS Slipstreams, I prefer the Slipstreams I find the Jet fins to heavy and can get pretty tiring if you have a long fin out to a wreck from the shore, although some people would find the heavier weight to their advantage when diving with a dry-suit, for me they drop my feet so I have to make an effort to keep my feet off the bottom.

[Walter]

That's a myth.

Lightning Jet Fins are slightly negative in sea water. When I put one of my boots in one of my XL Lightning Jets it's actually neutral in sea water. Jets do not pull your legs down.

[David_57]

I'm diving in fresh water so less buoyant than sea water, in a dry-suit with rock boots which are negative not like your positive neoprene boots, never said they pull my legs down but did mention my feet which they do. Note I did mention some people prefer the negative buoyancy characteristics of the Jets so I guess you would be one of them, In addition I did say they felt heavier that the OMS Slipstreams when under the water diving which they do, so do yourself a favor and way up the facts before you make contradictory statements.

[Walter]

How do they pull your feet down while leaving your legs up?

Yes, in fresh water they will be more negative. Rock boots are not positively buoyant, but if you have any air at all in the feet, the dry suit feet will be positively buoyant. Jet Fins will not pull your legs or your feet down, even in fresh water.

There are no contradictory statements in my post.

[David_57]

So Walter what does "That's a myth" refer to? if not contradictory as for them pulling my feet down what I should have said is feel heavy on my feet added to this I found the Jets harder work than the Slipstreams, when I have them side by side above water the Jets are definatley heavier so another disadvantage when traveling, if you have a different view that's OK it all comes own to opinion.

[Walter]

You think my saying, "That's a myth." is contradictory with the rest of my post? What did I say that contradicts it?

"That's a myth," refers to your stament, "they drop my feet so I have to make an effort to keep my feet off the bottom." Folks think Jet Fins are heavy. They are not. They are heavier than plastic fins, but they are still pretty light.

If you are traveling and if ounces matter in getting your luggage within a weight limit, they may be considered heavy, but I'd rather leave soap, shampoo, tooth paste, tooth brush, etc. at home and buy them at my destination than dive without my Jets. Heck, buy a travel vest and move weight from your bag to your pockets.


I found the Jets harder work than the Slipstreams

I've heard good things about Slipstreams, but I've never tried them.

[DoNotDstrb]

I bought my first set of JetFins in 1976 when I first got certified. Shortly after, I bought a pair of US Divers Rocket Fins (direct competitor, similar design) ---

I am 5'10", 195-ish lbs, in good shape, fairly strong legs.... Pretty much the same physique I've always had -- although it takes a bit more work to keep it now!! LOL! I wear these fins with 7mm Scubapro full zipper boots (full rubber foot top and sole -- pretty thick) regardless of other exposure protection -- even in Florida summer wearing nothing but a rashguard, I will use these boots.

34 years and thousands of dives later, I have probably tried every new fin introduced since including splits, composites, scoop, and even those mile-long fiberglass free-diving fins (yuck!)...... and guess what? I still use that original set of Lightning Jets.... Nothing else compares.... Straps have been replaced like a dozen times (springs now), but the fins still function as new.....

As for the Rockets.... I like them too, but I give the edge to the Jets..... Another poster stated that he grabbed one rocket and one jet by accident once and didn't notice.... I did the same thing, but I noticed.... not much difference, though.....

Some designs are timeless and almost impossible to improve upon..... has anyone come up with a better mousetrap design than the current century+ old one? Scubapro JetFins are in the same category.

[Nemrod]

I bought my first set of JetFins in 1976 when I first got certified. Shortly after, I bought a pair of US Divers Rocket Fins (direct competitor, similar design) ---

I am 5'10", 195-ish lbs, in good shape, fairly strong legs.... Pretty much the same physique I've always had -- although it takes a bit more work to keep it now!! LOL! I wear these fins with 7mm Scubapro full zipper boots (full rubber foot top and sole -- pretty thick) regardless of other exposure protection -- even in Florida summer wearing nothing but a rashguard, I will use these boots.

34 years and thousands of dives later, I have probably tried every new fin introduced since including splits, composites, scoop, and even those mile-long fiberglass free-diving fins (yuck!)...... and guess what? I still use that original set of Lightning Jets.... Nothing else compares.... Straps have been replaced like a dozen times (springs now), but the fins still function as new.....

As for the Rockets.... I like them too, but I give the edge to the Jets..... Another poster stated that he grabbed one rocket and one jet by accident once and didn't notice.... I did the same thing, but I noticed.... not much difference, though.....

Some designs are timeless and almost impossible to improve upon..... has anyone come up with a better mousetrap design than the current century+ old one? Scubapro JetFins are in the same category.

Curious, do you have Jet XL or L? vs Rocket what?

N

[Alex Solich]

First of all I am fairly new to scuba, but I was a competitive finswimmer for some time, and now doing mostly freediving and some scuba.
So I just had the JetFins after reading this thread.
I just wanted to add my experiences, i tried them swimming 10x100 yards against long carbon fins used for hunting, carbon competition fins, and lastly my custom made carbon monofin just for reference. (used different kick styles, flutter, dolphin and frog kick). Swam at about 65-70% of my max HR.
And it turned out that jets are fairly good all rounder fins. Surely not as good as fins designed for competitions, but hey these all are custom made 400USD+ carbon speed monsters, which could break easily even during a comp.m unreliable... mostly. (except the reinforced monofin)
So jets are good, on 100 yard distance they were only 'bout 7-8 secs slower (albeit needed more power).
Mean results 100y (65-70% max HR 10x100y mean results, swam on different training days)
Carbon long fins flutter: 1:10m
Carbon short flutter: 1:06sec
Monofin carbon, dolphin: 56 sec
Jetfin flutter: 1:15sec
Jetfin dolphin: 1:07 sec

Jets are also good at swimming frogkicks, seems efficient. Moreover they are highly maneuverable.
So I am very excited to use them for some scuba :)

Cheers

[David Wilson]

Alex:

I see you're a finswimmer from Hungary. Although there are many sources of information about fin development in the USA, it can be quite difficult to find out about the history of fins in Europe. During my online research I came across the Hungarian-made "Najade Standard" fin, which is retailed by Debrecen Diving Club:
http://www.debrecenibuvarklub.hu/bitmaps/uszony1.jpg
I am curious to know whether these fins are exact replicas of the Naiade fins (below) that were manufactured and widely used in the German Democratic Republic?
http://www.medi-leipzig.de/assets/images/V005102.jpg
Do you know whether the Hungarian Najade Standards are now being produced using the same moulds as the East German Naiades?

[oldmossback]

Some where in all these comments were posts about Hollis F1's...........I looked up the website and found a complete store!........then it hit me......did the immortal Bob Hollis start this store and is he still around?

[Alex Solich]

David,

I do not know much about the history of naiades, but for our club we order the fins you mentioned from Debrecen. They mold them in their factory, and retail them for about 60USD. Very good fins indeed. Although we use them after some minor adjustments to have a better stiffness for the downstrokes, we work out with fins turned upside down, for this purpose we cut the plantar part out at the heel of the standard fins, to be able to take on the fin when it's turned over. (It looks like an open heel fin then, with a permanently attached strap, one can use them in normal way and turned over if some wants more stiffness), actually it looks like the najade sprints at the club's website. (http://www.ddweb.hu/buvarklub/english/index.php?action=termek&id=28)
If I remember well they come in 3 different stiffness' (color coded). If you want specific infos on them I can contact the factory in Debrecen.

Cheers

[David Wilson]

Thanks, Alex, for your speedy reply and for that information about how you cut out the heels of the fins to match your training needs. I didn't know about that procedure other than when it's done in Russia and Ukraine to create monofin foot pockets.

[USdiver1]

I've used USD Super Rocket Fins (an XL version of the Rocket Fin) for more than 30 years now. I have yet to encounter a better fin, though I consider the SP Jet Fin to be an equal. The newer plastic/rubber fins just have never done it for me, when I kick I want to MOVE.

-Rocket Man

[stevestevekp]

hi, is there any difference between jet fins, and xs power scuba? from what i know, xs is abit longer than jets? other than that, what are the differences? in terms of structure, ease of wearing and using, pros and cons? i cant find any direct comparison online, hence i hope someone here is able to help me.. thanks alot :)

[John C. Ratliff]

Alex,

It is good to see your posts. For a few years in the 1980s, I was the Finswimming Director for the Underwater Society of America, and tried (somewhat successfully) to get the sport started again in the USA. I'm glad to hear that a finswimmer is interested here.

SeaRat

[stevestevekp]

hi sorry.. has any of you heard of saekodive fins? link is ( saekodive.com.tw/showpd.php?pdid=5972&catno=6&catname=Fins&subcatno =0&subcatname=" )...

i am considering buying XS power, till i chance upon this brand... or should i just stick to xs power?