PADI Divemaster Skills Demo: Equipment Setup Can we talk?

[muddyh2o]

We have some conflicting opinions about how a DM candidate should demo their skills, and the equipment assembly one has caused a lot of debate lately. To be clear, this is for the skills demo assessment portion of the PADI Divemaster course.

One instructor believes that you should speak about what you're doing as you're doing it, providing tips and explanations of what you're up to. Another instructor insists that the setup demo can only be done by remaining completely silent during the process. Saying anything will result in a failing grade.

What do you guys think? Can candidates speak while doing their equipment setup skills demo?

Thanks in advance for your opinions.

[duskdiver]

It is all in the standards!!..dont remember anything about not speaking..however, if you are able to teach equipment set up to someone that only speaks chinese..you would have to do it without speaking..now wouldn`t you?

[Jim Lapenta]

But if you could not speak Chinese how would you conduct the lectures and briefings? You would not teach someone who does not speak the language, you'd refer them to one who does or bring in an interpretor. Me I'd call my son (he's a linguist in Mandarin). But seriously not speaking while doing an equipment set up demo. That's just stupid. Sounds like the Marcel Marceu on the surface specialty class. Why would you not speak when you are able to? A true professional uses all the tools at their disposal to make sure the student gets the knowledge required. The why of what you are doing is just as important as how. Does it make sense to point to the oring and exaggerate looking at it without telling the student what they are looking for and why? Or why you wet the tank strap, turn the spg away from you when turning on the air, or open the buckle and retighten after giving the strap a few seconds to stretch? And what if you have a larger group that is trying to crowd around. Talking is one way to be sure that no one misses what you are doing and why. Miming the assembly? Who is the instructor telling you to do this, Charlie Chaplin?

And when I did it for my PADI DM course it was expected that you explain what you were doing and why.

[SubMariner]

We have some conflicting opinions about how a DM candidate should demo their skills, and the equipment assembly one has caused a lot of debate lately. To be clear, this is for the skills demo assessment portion of the PADI Divemaster course.

One instructor believes that you should speak about what you're doing as you're doing it, providing tips and explanations of what you're up to. Another instructor insists that the setup demo can only be done by remaining completely silent during the process. Saying anything will result in a failing grade.

What do you guys think? Can candidates speak while doing their equipment setup skills demo?

Thanks in advance for your opinions.

The whole point of skills at the Pro level is that they should be performed to DEMONSTRATION QUALITY. This not only means that they need to be broken down into their essential components, but that each segment be demonstrated in an exaggerated manner so that the student can clearly see/understand each step.

That is why when a skill is to be performed underwater it is first described on the surface prior to underwater demonstration. If there is no/inadequate explanation at the surface, the candidate is scored down. (FYI, this applies at all levels from DM up.)

Thus it only follows that a properly executed demo on the surface be accompanied by proper narration during the demo sequence. If a candidate presented a skill demo to me that did not include this aspect I would certainly score them down. Especially if it is gear assembly that is performed on land.

Pax,

[Pearldiver07]

The whole point of skills at the Pro level is that they should be performed to DEMONSTRATION QUALITY. This not only means that they need to be broken down into their essential components, but that each segment be demonstrated in an exaggerated manner so that the student can clearly see/understand each step.

That is why when a skill is to be performed underwater it is first described on the surface prior to underwater demonstration. If there is no/inadequate explanation at the surface, the candidate is scored down. (FYI, this applies at all levels from DM up.)

Thus it only follows that a properly executed demo on the surface be accompanied by proper narration during the demo sequence. If a candidate presented a skill demo to me that did not include this aspect I would certainly score them down. Especially if it is gear assembly that is performed on land.

Pax,

FYI - there is NO requirement that any skill be verbally presented/reviewed, or not. This whole thread speaks to individuals giving the air of PADI-sponsored requirements when in fact the direction does not exist in the standards.

The standard is to CONDUCT the skills at presentation quality, not to PRESENT (discuss) the skills. If the student verbally presents a skill done above the water there would be no scoring benefit or detraction. Any CD/IDCS/Instructor who adds/reduces scoring points based on this is adding their own bias, not the standard.

I take particular exception to the second paragraph above. At no point in the I.E. does the examiner require a surface description of a skill during the 5-skill demonstration portion of the examination. This is only required in the CW teaching evaluation.

Is the ability to describe each of these skills possibly going to come up? Of course, during the CW teaching presentation portion. And later in actual teaching you had better be able to present them well. But again, carrying this requirement over to the skills demonstration portion of the requirements is not accurate, and will be setting up your student for a bad surprise at the I.E.

[Satyre]

We have some conflicting opinions about how a DM candidate should demo their skills, and the equipment assembly one has caused a lot of debate lately. To be clear, this is for the skills demo assessment portion of the PADI Divemaster course.

One instructor believes that you should speak about what you're doing as you're doing it, providing tips and explanations of what you're up to. Another instructor insists that the setup demo can only be done by remaining completely silent during the process. Saying anything will result in a failing grade.

What do you guys think? Can candidates speak while doing their equipment setup skills demo?

Thanks in advance for your opinions.

I am just a brand new OWSI and I have checked in the instrcutor manual and haven't found anything.
Having that said, as a divemaster I have assisted several instructors in several different shops.
The rule has always been: the setup demo can only be done by remaining completely silent during the process.

The reason is that the explanation has been done by the instructor, the instructor has also demonstrate the skill and the DM has to demonstrate the skill only to students that have troubles doing it.

Hope I have answered your question.

Please note than this is not a specific answer for surface skills but all the skills, surface and underwater
JLuc

[Crowley]

I think people are getting a bit confused between the skills you are required to demonstrate as a DiveMaster candidate and real world demonstrations to students.

For the DM skills assessments there is no hard and fast rule as to wether or not you can talk through the skill. And it certainly cannot harm your score; as mentioned above, PADI instructors who add or subtract points based on what you say are working to their own rules, not PADI standards. Havig said that, my preference is for the candidate to do it without speaking, partly because I have found that quite often, when candidates speak through the skill, they tend to forget the exaggerated gestures and emphasis of the critical attributes that are required to score the full 5 points on a skill. Or - as my own instructor put it: "better to keep your mouth shut and have people think you're an idiot, rather than open your mouth and prove it!" :D

When it comes to real-world teaching, of course you should talk through skills where able to do so. A silent demonstration tells you WHAT to do, not WHY to do it.

And that is the correct answer.

Cheers

C.

[knotical]

The first time my DMCs do skills is practice, so for the equipment assembly skill, I talk and they perform. I remind them that another instructor might sequence that skill differently.

I offer to talk them through more practice if they want, but encourage them to also practice without me. I remind them that I will be quiet during their evals.

As promised, when evaluating DMCs, I am silent during equipment assembly. I give the candidates the choice whether to talk. I do remind them that in an actual open water class, the instructor will talk and they should follow that instructor's lead. Whether the candidate talks or not does not affect their grade.

[GoProHonduras]

For the demonstration of Divemaster skills on the DM course, and on the skills pre-assessment in the IDC, we emphasize to candidates to exaggerate the action during their demonstration, as this is what they are scored on, not what they say. However if a candidate wishes to talk, we dco not mark them down or up, they are simply scored on the movements they emphasize and exaggerate, and some candidates find it easier to emphasize when they don't talk, others prefer to talk.

Now during an IDC/IE the candidates have to demonstrate 5 skills (demo's only no briefings) and the examiners allow them to talk on surface skills if they wish, but they are scored on what they show and emphasize, not what they say, so a great verbal description with fast actions will score a 3, whereas no verbal description, but slow exagerated movement will most likely score a 5.

In the confined presentation briefings there is a requirement to descrive the skill step by step, in addition to a good exagerated demonstration. For surface skills this can be integrated.

HTH,
Andy

[vjanelle]

When you're watching 2 or more DMCs put together gear, wouldn't it be difficult to evaluate them if they're all blabbing at once? Especially if they might be working with people that might not understand english.

[scarefaceDM]

When I went through the demo skills portion. It was done like this. Demonstrate to your students by showing them and speaking to them. You are to assume the students do not know fully what you are doing. ( even though you are demoing to your instructor and other DM candidates)

So by speaking in the proper terminology you are also reinforce the actual demo of said skill. By speaking clearly and showing clearly where what goes and how it can be done. Helps the student understand fully.

Would you understand if I said « take this hose and connect it here» if this would be your first time in an OW course? Maybe for the first minute, then it is forgotten and you have to explain it again to said student. This has happened on several occasions when I assisted in OW courses where I was rushed to demo the skill...I got fed up of following the instructors rules and set my own by doing it right the first time.....l I find it works best when you explain the motion as you are doing it and using the right terminology for each part and asking if they understood what was done.

Depending on the size of class it was one at a time. This way if the other guy misses something you can learn from it.

Silence is golden when the reg is in your mouth and you can breath from it.

[TMHeimer]

As a DMC I'm least qualified here to give an opinion (but I will, of course). Seems like we're splitting hairs (which I am often guilty of as well). We are talking about the DMC demonstrating the skill, no? Seems either way would be fine. In real life, the instructor has already shown the class the drill and verbally explained it. The DM(C) is assigned a student who is having trouble. Logically one would find out what part of assembly is the problem and go over that part slowly and probably verbally, no?

[Brewski]

While as a divemaster you would not be explaining the set up steps during an actual class, as that is the instructors job. you may be called upon to demonstrate the set up steps while the instructor is briefing it.

To answer your question as it pertains to your evaluation the best advice I can give you is ask your evaluating instructor how he prefers you to perform this skill. I would have no problem if you asked me prior to your evaluation. The most important opinion at the time of your evaluation is the one of the evaluator.
If the two conflicting opinions you cited above come from your instructors, you want to pay attention to the one with the pencil in his hand when its your turn.

[RJP]

What do you guys think? Can candidates speak while doing their equipment setup skills demo?

Thanks in advance for your opinions.

My opinion is that the second instructor is an idiot.

As per the PADI manual the goal is for the DM candidate to "perform these skills to demonstration quality." The DM Instructor manual further states "Emphasize that their goal is not learning how to do the skill, which they should already know, but how to execute it in a way that allows student divers to learn the steps and critical attributes."

Obviously, an effective "demonstration" of how to set up your gear in a way that allows others to learn how to do it REQUIRES that you speak.

:shakehead:

[duskdiver]

Exactly...you must be a CD..



FYI - there is NO requirement that any skill be verbally presented/reviewed, or not. This whole thread speaks to individuals giving the air of PADI-sponsored requirements when in fact the direction does not exist in the standards.

The standard is to CONDUCT the skills at presentation quality, not to PRESENT (discuss) the skills. If the student verbally presents a skill done above the water there would be no scoring benefit or detraction. Any CD/IDCS/Instructor who adds/reduces scoring points based on this is adding their own bias, not the standard.

I take particular exception to the second paragraph above. At no point in the I.E. does the examiner require a surface description of a skill during the 5-skill demonstration portion of the examination. This is only required in the CW teaching evaluation.

Is the ability to describe each of these skills possibly going to come up? Of course, during the CW teaching presentation portion. And later in actual teaching you had better be able to present them well. But again, carrying this requirement over to the skills demonstration portion of the requirements is not accurate, and will be setting up your student for a bad surprise at the I.E.

[duskdiver]

I hope there is no CD here....:shakehead:



The whole point of skills at the Pro level is that they should be performed to DEMONSTRATION QUALITY. This not only means that they need to be broken down into their essential components, but that each segment be demonstrated in an exaggerated manner so that the student can clearly see/understand each step.

That is why when a skill is to be performed underwater it is first described on the surface prior to underwater demonstration. If there is no/inadequate explanation at the surface, the candidate is scored down. (FYI, this applies at all levels from DM up.)

Thus it only follows that a properly executed demo on the surface be accompanied by proper narration during the demo sequence. If a candidate presented a skill demo to me that did not include this aspect I would certainly score them down. Especially if it is gear assembly that is performed on land.

Pax,

[muddyh2o]

Thanks guys. All great answers.

I tend to agree that as a DM (or any type of educator), you should use all the tools at your disposal when demo'ing anything. My instructor agreed with me.

The Charlie Chaplin and Marcel Marceau comments were fantastic.

We've had a few other 'style' issues, with the 'silent' instructor insisting on EFR courses that Good Samaritan laws mean it is illegal to provide assistance in some Asian countries, that aluminum cylinders lose more weight when emptied than steel (the air weighs the same regardless of the type of cylinder) and his insistence that you should treat every diver who walks in the shop as if they are 'a complete idiot.'

Ah well, you can from bad examples just as easily as you can learn from good ones.

Again, thanks to everyone.

[SubMariner]

FYI - there is NO requirement that any skill be verbally presented/reviewed, or not. This whole thread speaks to individuals giving the air of PADI-sponsored requirements when in fact the direction does not exist in the standards.

The standard is to CONDUCT the skills at presentation quality, not to PRESENT (discuss) the skills. If the student verbally presents a skill done above the water there would be no scoring benefit or detraction. Any CD/IDCS/Instructor who adds/reduces scoring points based on this is adding their own bias, not the standard.

I take particular exception to the second paragraph above. At no point in the I.E. does the examiner require a surface description of a skill during the 5-skill demonstration portion of the examination. This is only required in the CW teaching evaluation.

Is the ability to describe each of these skills possibly going to come up? Of course, during the CW teaching presentation portion. And later in actual teaching you had better be able to present them well. But again, carrying this requirement over to the skills demonstration portion of the requirements is not accurate, and will be setting up your student for a bad surprise at the I.E.

Firstly, my apologies in not responding back to this post. Although I had access to a laptop while I was away, all my PADI materials are on my desktop PC @ home.

Onward…

Here is are the criteria directly from the 2010 Instructor Manual regarding DMs performing demos:

“Confined Water Skills
Developing Demonstration-quality Skills
……..
Skill Evaluation Score
Score Criteria
5 Exercise performed correctly, slowly and with exaggerated movement – appeared easy.
4 Exercise performed correctly, and slowly enough to adequately exhibit or illustrate details of skill.
3 Exercise performed correctly, though too quickly to adequately exhibit or illustrate details of the skill
2 Exercise performed with significant difficulty or error.
1 Candidate unable to perform exercise.
Note: This criteria is used to score skill evaluations throughout all levels of PADI leadership training.”

If one is to DEMONSTRATE the skill in order to receive either a 4 or a 5, it is emphasized that the skill must be done in an exaggerated manner so that the details of the skill are obvious. I would argue that if said skill is done on the surface, an integral part of the demonstration would necessitate there being a verbal component. This is especially critical when dealing with OW students who are essentially just learning scuba nomenclature and systems.

Further, from the 2010 CD Manual, pg 44:
" What is the most effective way to demonstrate a skill?

1. A demonstration should show student divers all the critical steps you described in the briefing. A good demonstration is slow, smooth and deliberate. By exaggerating the details, you draw attention to them, making performing the skill easier.
a. Make sure that all divers can see the demonstration. If necessary, demonstrate the skill again, from a different angle to give student divers a clear picture of each step.
b. Use your assistant to help demonstrate a skill such as alternate air source use. Occasionally you may elect to have a PADI certified assistant demonstrate a skill for student divers as part of leadership level training. (During the IE, however, you must perform demonstration.)
c. Consider integrating a surface skill demonstration into the briefing.
Demonstrate the steps during or immediately after the skill description. Exaggerate as you describe and perform the skill. A real time demonstration could follow if necessary. Make sure student divers can see all the critical attributes of the skill."

I'm not exactly sure why you are hung up on the terms "present" vs "conduct" but IMHO they're not especially pertinent to the discussion.

Pax,

[ScubabunnyCR]

HAve seen this done both ways, and for personal preference in the DM skill circuit, I will recommend that the equipment set up will be done in silence for the exaggerated movement. If a candidate chooses to talk then I won't mark them down unless they forget to exaggerate. I will use the same process for IDC candaidates.