Regulators for Tech Diving

[supajaydub]

Hi all,

Well this is the deal, my curent regs that I have been using for recreational diving are leaking air continuously, despite being serviced at 9 months and then at 14 months. The even started leaking again after the first dive after they were serviced.

So anyway I'm looking to get a new set and I would like to be able to use them for the tech course I will be doing this year.

From what I have seen here in Dubai, I can get the following:

Scubapro
1st Stages
MK17 or MK25

2nd Stages
S555 or S600 or A700 or G250V

Apeks
1st Stage
Tek 3

2nd Stage
XTX 100

Now I dive in both warm water (here in Dubai) but also in cold water down to 5 degrees Celsius when I dive in Cape Town South Africa, so the regs would have to be cold water rated.

So which reg should I be looking at that would stand me in good stead when I am eventually neck deep in the tech diving setup.

Also, DIN vs YOKE? Most of the dive shops here use the YOKE setups on the rental tanks so I would it be best to get a straight YOKE connection or a DIN with an adapter, this would only apply when doing normal recreational dives.

Thanks

supaJAYdub

[carobinsoniv]

What kind of regs do you have now? I have never heard of regs leaking as you described above. Depending on the reg, I may question the techician rather than the reg. If that is the case, I am not sure I would bu a reg at the same place.

As far as the regs you asked about, SP makes a great reg and parts are free as long as you keep the servicing up to date per the warranty. Since i normally dive 19C or warmer, somone else can talk about cold water and also the Apeks.

As far as DIN vs yoke, I would go with DIN and a yoke adapter as needed. That is what I have done with no issues.

Good luck.

[supajaydub]

The regs I have now are Aqualung Kronos Supreme, and no I won't be buying anything significant from that store again, the SP and Apeks gear are from a new store and they are actually busy doing function testing on my Kronos regs now to check them before doing a full service, but I still want to get rid of them because I'm none to pleased about this kind of "failure" after little over a years worth of use despite servicing and the usually thorough post dive cleaning and rinsing.

[Jorgy]

If a brand name reg "leaks" I would question the servicing itself........

So if you buy a great expensive reg and you get poor service than you end up with a poor reg regardless of how much you spend.......

Can you find another shop/service center?

M

[H2O 70]

Personally I'm a big fan of Apeks.

In reference to your ScubaPro choices. The MK25 is not suitable for cold water. Even detuned I've had my MK25 freeze open countless times in >40degreeF water. I'd lean more towards the MK17. It is sealed.

Some Sherwoods were designed to leak.

[PfcAJ]

Din is a must for your regs. Using an adapter is fine when you're doing single tank rec diving.

Mk17s with g250v primary and s555 backup would be my choice if I was diving in both cold and warm water.

[TSandM]

As far as the ScubaPro regs go, I have to disagree about the Mk25. I know they aren't supposed to be good cold water regs, but I've had mine for four years and have dived them in water down to 41 degrees, and have had no problems with them at all. That said, I probably wouldn't buy them if I were buying new for cold water. DA Aquamaster, who seems extremely knowledgeable about ScubaPro regs, recommends the Mk17/G250 instead.

[SurDo2]

Apeks.

[kgdiver]

another for Apeks. love my DS4/XTX50's

(The SP regs are good too and would not be a bad choice)

[elan]

SP MK17/G250V or Tek3/XTX50 or 100. Din with yoke adapter . I would also recommend keeping the Aqualung for the rec diving. It's annoying to switch the regs back and forth between rec/teck setups. have Just find a good technician, who can fix your reg.

[fppf]

And no one asked why someone with less then 25 dives would even think about taking a tech class :confused:

Just find a shop that can properly service your regs and go diving, enjoy the big ole blue.

[H2O 70]

And no one asked why someone with less then 25 dives would even think about taking a tech class :confused:

Why buy twice?

[fppf]

From his OP he already owns a reg.
And if he only has 25 dives tech is a long way off still.

[PfcAJ]

And he is dissatisfied with his current reg. Might as well get some good stuff early on....

[supajaydub]

And no one asked why someone with less then 25 dives would even think about taking a tech class :confused:

Just find a shop that can properly service your regs and go diving, enjoy the big ole blue.
My apologies fppf, I am sorry that I hadn't updated my profile as frequently as you may have liked, I'm actually heading close to the 100 dive range.

And even though I can go ahead right now and buy all the tech gear in one big shot without really being bothered by the amount, the point is that I was asking for advice on regulators and not critique on training courses and my experience and skills. I would appreciate the critique if you were giving to me as an instructor, but as far as I can see you are not an instructor and you also are not a tech diver (unless you use that Oceanic jacket BC on you deep dives) so I would prefer some feedback from people that are actually experienced in that field.

Perhaps in the future you could be so kind as to stick to the posted topic to prevent threads being hijacked and turning into a complete waste of everyone's time.

But thanks for your concern about my diving skills and experience level.

And just for the record, my diving experience is far more detailed in terms of dive planning and execution due to the fact that I work on sub-sea installation projects for the oil and gas industry. And I'm sorry to say that the dive planning and execution as well as problem mitigation emergency response along with decompression both in water and in saturation chambers, may well warrant a greater understanding of diving in general.

[fppf]

My apologies fppf, I am sorry that I hadn't updated my profile as frequently as you may have liked, I'm actually heading close to the 100 dive range.

And even though I can go ahead right now and buy all the tech gear in one big shot without really being bothered by the amount, the point is that I was asking for advice on regulators and not critique on training courses and my experience and skills. I would appreciate the critique if you were giving to me as an instructor, but as far as I can see you are not an instructor and you also are not a tech diver (unless you use that Oceanic jacket BC on you deep dives) so I would prefer some feedback from people that are actually experienced in that field.

Perhaps in the future you could be so kind as to stick to the posted topic to prevent threads being hijacked and turning into a complete waste of everyone's time.

But thanks for your concern about my diving skills and experience level.

And just for the record, my diving experience is far more detailed in terms of dive planning and execution due to the fact that I work on sub-sea installation projects for the oil and gas industry. And I'm sorry to say that the dive planning and execution as well as problem mitigation emergency response along with decompression both in water and in saturation chambers, may well warrant a greater understanding of diving in general.

Fair enough. But I have BP/W, 7 foot hoses and the likes. I just choose to dive what I want to dive in the environment I dive that day. I have no opinion on the 2 regs you are looking at.

And just because someone is not an "instructor" or "dive master" does not mean you should brush them off. Maybe they don't want to be an instructor or dive master, and maybe they might have more experience then some of the "instructors" and "dive masters" out there ;)

[Scott L]

My apologies fppf, I am sorry that I hadn't updated my profile as frequently as you may have liked, I'm actually heading close to the 100 dive range.

And even though I can go ahead right now and buy all the tech gear in one big shot without really being bothered by the amount, the point is that I was asking for advice on regulators and not critique on training courses and my experience and skills. I would appreciate the critique if you were giving to me as an instructor, but as far as I can see you are not an instructor and you also are not a tech diver (unless you use that Oceanic jacket BC on you deep dives) so I would prefer some feedback from people that are actually experienced in that field.

Perhaps in the future you could be so kind as to stick to the posted topic to prevent threads being hijacked and turning into a complete waste of everyone's time.

But thanks for your concern about my diving skills and experience level.

And just for the record, my diving experience is far more detailed in terms of dive planning and execution due to the fact that I work on sub-sea installation projects for the oil and gas industry. And I'm sorry to say that the dive planning and execution as well as problem mitigation emergency response along with decompression both in water and in saturation chambers, may well warrant a greater understanding of diving in general.

For a relatively new diver you sure are a quick learner of the Scubaboard take down. 2 points...:thumb:

P.S. I love my Apecks Tec3's and XTX50 second stages. Comes that way as a complete package at a better price then cobbling together as pieces...

[keithdiver]

For a relatively new diver you sure you sure are a quick learner of the Scubaboard take down. 2 points...:thumb:

P.S. I love my Apecks Tec3's and XTX50 second stages. Comes that way as a complete package at a better price then cobbling together as pieces...

what's going on Scott:dontknow:

[Scott L]

what's going on Scott:dontknow:

I posted this in another thread several minutes ago.

Got out today in Jupiter. A bit bumpy but 80ft vis and about 71 degrees. Hit some wrecks as there was zero current. Slipped on the boat deck landing on my forearm and little pinky. Pinky was doing a 35-40 degree dogleg from middle joint outward. The female DM freaked so I qucikly snapped back in place. Surprisingly it stayed put and functions....

Heading to Key West Friday and Key Largo Sunday for a training dive with Chris. You?
Sorry for the quick hijack OP!

[supajaydub]

ok i've narrowed it down now to either a scubapro MK17/G250V or MK17/S600.

from what i have read it seems that the G250V seems to be the veteran while the S600 is the new kid on the block. I've also read that the G250V has metal internal components which provide benefits for performance as well as making it a bit more "sturdy", however the S600 is smaller and seems to be a bit lighter.

Would someone please help me make up my mind?

[Jorgy]

I believe that the 250 would have the upside in a true cold water (under 40 degrees) application.......

Since you are going the MK17 route......

M

[PfcAJ]

G250v. The metal air barrel is real nice, and I've seen a few of the plastic air barrels crack.

[ding dang]

if you have your own tanks, go DIN. if you don't have your own tanks, go DIN, and get the adapter for when you rent tanks.

If you're going to spend money on regs, you might as well shell out for your own tanks. So go DIN.

I would go for any reg you see that is environmentally sealed, so you can use it in cold, and it'll perform fine in warmer waters too. Nothing to worry about.

If money is no option, go Apeks. If money is an option, get the cheapest reg you can, being environmentally sealed. Prepare to spend over $600US for a set, that's fine.

[Stoo]

another for Apeks. love my DS4/XTX50's

(The SP regs are good too and would not be a bad choice)

I dove Scubapros for years and loved them, but recently changed to Apeks DS4s and XTX50s. Yesterday, I spent 45 minutes in 38F water and TRIED to get them to freeze by continuous purging... no effect. I was only in 100 feet, but I figure that was as good a test as i could give them.

I also like the smaller second stage. It allows my beautiful face to be seen better... :dork2:

[Jorgy]

DIN is nice......my local reg & tanks are DIN......

But unless you have DIN tanks then an adapter is a PITA.......

Sticks out farther from the tank valve and has more failure points.....

So why do it? If you are going tech don't plan on saving money....

M

[memorex77]

When talking tech here, would I be able to use the same regs (I'm using Apeks) for Trimix?

[PfcAJ]

Yes, they will work just fine.

[SangP]

The advice given is really good. I would also like to add that I too have never heard of regs leaking after being serviced.

I am aware of some older regulators having a slight leak at the 1st stage as part of the design to release over pressure but generally if they are new then the leak is usually the fault of the technician.

As for the part of tech diving, it's imperative that you be serious about it as it is a difficult and costly path to take, doubles band, manifolds, lift bags, reels, 3 - 6 sets of regulators etc, etc, not to mention the cost of training and effort necessary. Then there the really expensive stuff VR3s or Predators, scooters, lights, helium then there's CCRs!!!!!

Anyway, if you are set on getting a "tech" reg, these are my views:

Scubapro mk25/700A/s600. Unsealed piston design, powerful regs that keep pouring huge volumes of air at almost any depths. Difficult to make on the spot fixes without special tools.

Scubapro Mk17/700a/s600. Sealed, fairly light and fairly new design. Seems to be on par with the apeks but again, difficult to make on the spot fixes without special tools.

Apeks XTX/ATX 100 or DS4 XTS/50, tried, true and proven design in really awful conditions from cold to murky, silt laden waters with easy access to the workings of the 2nd stage should any sand particles find they way into the 2nd stage, while the 1st stage is sealed.
Doesn't quite have the power of the scubapro mk25 but more than sufficient even at extreme depths.

I have 4 apeks and thinking of getting more : )

SangP

[OHIO DIVERS]

How about poseidon's x-stream for tech diving?

[Jorgy]

Absolutely......

Just my opinion the best cold water there is.......it is what i dive......;)

M

[OHIO DIVERS]

Jorgy,
what is some the reasons that you dive the poseidon?

[Jorgy]

One of the few regulators that I have never ever seen free flow in cold water.....

Prefer the side exhaust - easy to fill lift bags and DSMBs with even taking the reg out of your mouth......

If there is a first stage failure or IP creep, the second stage has a relief valve on the hose so it is still easy the breath off of, vice massive second stage bubbling from the mouth piece......

No adjustments, just breath it....KISS principle......

Looks great.....and is not Apex, SP, AL or Atomic.......I like the uniqueness.....:D

It does have issues......powerful purge which can surprise you......

Since it uses tank pressure to seal the valve, if you go OOA the tank will depressurize, which is bad.....just make sure you keep 200-300 psi in the tank (you should anyway)

The biggest points for me were cold water ruggedness and side exhaust.......

Just my thoughts.....M

[elan]

I have seen at least 2 cases of posidon free flowing here in Quebec. The temperature of the water was 37F and the temp outside was about 0F. I don not know if it was poor handling or regulator malfunctions or design issue.

Also posidons are upstream valve design and they stop delivering air if they malfunction instead of opening and leaking air.

They are also more difficult to service and the service at least here costs 2-2.5 times ad much as the service of either SP or apeks

[Jorgy]

This becomes a difficult topic....

I have a SP MK25/550 reg that free flowed on me in 38 degree water.....others have them and dive them in even colder water without issue.....

As far a service cost I don't see that here with LDS.....

Just my thoughts.....M

[elan]

Yeah here you can sometimes buy Poseidons quite cheap as people do not want to service them for that price - I think it costs around 130-150 CAD to service the reg (50 for SP or Apeks)

[DwayneJ]

Also posidons are upstream valve design and they stop delivering air if they malfunction instead of opening and leaking air.


I dont think a regulator design that stops air is better than a design that free flows. In a real bad situation, you can feather the tank valve.

Based on the pictures I saw, it appeared the first stage was not sealed - Can someone confirm?

Dwayne

[elan]

I dont think a regulator design that stops air is better than a design that free flows. In a real bad situation, you can feather the tank valve.

Absolutely, this is why this regs are not considered DIR I guess...

[Druid]

Also posidons are upstream valve design and they stop delivering air if they malfunction instead of opening and leaking air.

They are also more difficult to service and the service at least here costs 2-2.5 times ad much as the service of either SP or apeks

Not all Poseidons are upstream valve, but I don't know enough about them to say for certain which ones are. Cyklons are I think, other Poseidon regs aren't.

Servicing does cost more though, and they do need to be dismantled carefully.

@ the OP: The Apeks and SP regs you have identified will give pretty much the same performance. I would recommend Apeks DS4/ATX40s, just because they are considerably cheaper than SP, and do not require any special tools to dismantle. All the Apeks first stages are identical internally and the cracking resistance knob is the only difference between the 40s and 50/100/200 second stages. There is no such thing as a high end Apeks reg, just more expensive ones. The Tek3s route nicely on twins but are crap if you want to use one on a single tank, and are much more expensive than the DS4.

Get DIN fittings. Carry an allen key to remove the insert from the valve if it has one, get an adapter for the times the valve doesn't have an insert.



Ahh, crap. I've just seen the date on the original post :(

[AbyssalPlains]

Ahh, crap. I've just seen the date on the original post :(

No worries, man. I read the entire thread and your comment was very useful to me. Apeks are virtually non-existent here in the southwestern US, but I know lots of divers in Europe use them, so it was great to learn how they compare to the ScubaPros.

Thanks! :D

[Jorgy]

That is correct the xstream first stage is not sealed.....

M

[elan]

The Tek3s route nicely on twins but are crap if you want to use one on a single tank, and are much more expensive than the DS4.

How much would Tek 3 cost roughly in UK ? I think here you can get a set for around 600 pounds per set if I convert from CAD

[Spazzy]

Yep, you're on the money - both the apex and the scubapro will be fine. Personally I'd go Mk17 S600 or the XTX200 (rather than the tek regs). Hope this helps.

[Druid]

How much would Tek 3 cost roughly in UK ? I think here you can get a set for around 600 pounds per set if I convert from CAD

A pair of Tek3 first stages are about £450, DS4s are about £130 each. A complete set of Tek3/XTX50/XTX40 with 7ft hose and a gauge is over £800, a pair of DS4s XTX50/XTX40 with 7ft hose and gauges are £460 (these are typical online prices, recommended retail prices are quite a bit more)

[BgDadddy]

I have been cave diving with Aqualung regs for 6 years and they are still the best regs I have ever used. They breathe almost as good at 200' as they do on the surface.

Take them to a different shop for service and you'll never look back!

[eliminator]

I've been looking for regs for years for my doubles. Apeks, Scuba Pro, Dive Rite, Oceanic, I've tried a few.

Most regs are very good these days, so decisions should mostly come down to personal preference, ease of servicing, house routing, and price.

I've finally decided on Atomic M1s and just waiting for them to arrive. I'll be running Dive Rite RG3000s on my deco and travel gas.

[trident00]

I've been diving SP MK25T s600 for a few years as a sportdiving set up. I absolutely love them.
I recently got into tech diving. Based on my instructors knowledge and what I have absorbed on this forum as well as getting a screaming deal from a friend, I chose to try out a set of the apeks tec3. I am anxiously awaiting them to come in.

Hopefully next week I will be able to compare them to my Mk25's.

Great thread and great information shared. Thanks everyone.

Cheeers, Walt

[eliminator]

I've been diving SP MK25T s600 for a few years as a sportdiving set up. I absolutely love them.
I recently got into tech diving. Based on my instructors knowledge and what I have absorbed on this forum as well as getting a screaming deal from a friend, I chose to try out a set of the apeks tec3. I am anxiously awaiting them to come in.

Hopefully next week I will be able to compare them to my Mk25's.

Great thread and great information shared. Thanks everyone.

Cheeers, Walt

You'll be very happy with the Tek3s. They were on my short list when they came out a few years ago. If you're buying them new, make sure you get them from an authorized dealer and register them. Aqualung/Apeks North America have a free parts program, but you really have to play by the rules.

[trident00]

Appreciate the response. Yes I am getting them new from an authorized dealer. I will try to jump through their hoops as scheduled. It was a tough decision between going with additional mk25's, atomics, or apeks. It basically came down to being able to land the apeks very close to cost. They sure seem to have a very good reputation among tech divers on this forum.

Cheers, Walt

[elan]

Apeks would be sutable for super cold water if you ever decide to do it up north :)

MK25 with G250V is very popular here in the water is in the 40 degrees range. Although S600 does not work in cold water, just today my friends s600 that he uses on his stage started bubbling in 36F

[trident00]

Im spoiled living on the south end of florida's cave country and a short drive from the gulf. The wrecks of the east coast are only a few hours away. Got my fill of cold water diving in Colorado.

Got to hand it to you Northern divers, your a tough set of nuts.

Cheers, Walt

[Country Diver]

I have dove the Mk25/G250V under the ice (35-39F) with no issues whatsoever. I turn the dial down on the G250V, but one thing to remember is that you can get any regulator to free flow...it can be a wrong angle, it can be breathing too hard (over exertion)...but I was one of the skeptics about using my MK25/G250s under the ice, but my other friends were also using them without any issues either. My other friend had Apeks, and again...no issues in general. We also have the MK17/G250's on the stage bottles, and some have the DS4's and no issues...One buddy has the MK25/s600's on his back gas and has been upside down with no issues... We have quite the range of temperatures up here...so if it works up here...it'll work for you.

Posidons....one thing to consider...the hoses. I have seen people in the past have a hard time locating hoses for their regs, and then when they found them they were so expensive. This might seem minor, but if you are wanting to get into technical diving...standard hoses are easier to find.

Other things to consider...routing. First go with DIN regs. Secondly...routing. the MK25s route nice on the back gas doubles. The DS4 and the MK17 route nice on stages, but you can also use them on the back gas, but the lp hoses for the regs might kink a little more than you wish.

[Dive Bug Bit Me]

+1 for scuba pro.


I was also under ice at 37F to 39F temps about two weeks ago. MK25 / S600 combination held up well. Four dives and nothing near a freeze up. The inflator on my Blue H wing froze open twice. The second time I was only about 1 ft from the surface so instead of decoupling the inflator, I let the wing free flow and vent for about a minute. That in itself was still not enough to get the MK25 to freeze up.

[ajduplessis]

Both the Apeks and Scubapro options you mentioned are great and will work fine for tech diving (DIN thou). I own a pair of Tek3 and DS4 and love them, however they are twice as costly to service as my SP regs (SP $30, apeks $65). I have also dived my MK25/S600 in Cape Town without issues. My instructor have the MK17's and they also work magic.

[divingtpapa]

I love my Apex XTX 100!

[trident00]

I really like my Apeks tek3 reg set. I also own scubapro mk25 s600 that I use for sport diving. Both sets breath great and rout well with the doubles. I prefer the routing with the tek3 set. I also like the tek3 set being environmentally sealed. Makes rinsing them after a dive super easy.

Cheers, Walt

[CCTX50]

While reading through this thread I have not seen any mention of HOG regulators. I have been diving with Scubapro and APEX for years now and truly believe in them. Yet I recently purchased a set of HOG D1 regs and have been using them for about the past month or so. I have very happy with them and they breath great. From what I can tell they are very very close to the APEX regs. Can anyone jump in and add some insight into the HOGs?