New CCR's

[jepuskar]

So what are some of the new CCR's coming out....I know about the Nautilus...

$5g's for a CCR..not bad I must say..not bad at all.

Is this going to be a trend for the newer CCR's to try and win over a broader customer base?

Jason

[caveseeker7]

OMG Nemesis is the second eCCR that's supposed to stay at the $5000 barrier. Moreover, it is supposed to have thermister scrubber monitoring. The non-working prototype shown at DEMA last year was set up to use the ExtendAir cartridges, so I don't know which one they'll build and/or which one you'll be able to get for $5K. The DEMA rig had a small (13cuft) O2 cylinder inside the housing, and a larger (27cuft Azi sized) cylinder for diluent. As the Azis and 96s this CCR ought to be CE-certified.

The elusive Infinito can be labeled new, Padiscubapro can tell you more than I.

A rig dubbed the Predator, though I've only repeatedly heard the name. Nothing else, not even who's designing or building it.

APD's Evolution, if they ever get it to the customers.

[blackice]

Oooo I just love this diving stuff ... maybe by the time I'm ready for a CCR they will be affordable? Lets hope - would love to try one next year.

[TJO]

I had a look at the Nemesis on their website and it looks very well made (even if it was a demo unit). It says that nitrox can be used as well as O2, heliox and trimix. I am not familiar with CCRs (yet), what are the pros and cons of using nitrox in a ccr? It may of course be necessary to do so on some liveaboards without facilities to provide pure O2... Could someone please tell me more about this?

[caveseeker7]

If so that's the DEMA unit that was crude by any standard. :rolleyes:
Mixed gas CCRs usually have two gases, oxygen and a diluent. The latter can be air or for greater depth Heliox or Trimix. Rather than having a fixed percentage of gas (e.g. Nitrox 40 - 40% Oxygen/60% Nitrogen) they are used with a fixed partial pressure of oxygen. Therefor the mix changes according to depth (and the chosen partial pressure). They are wearable Nitrox (trimix/heliox) mixing machines. You need O2 to make them work right, and the main advantage is that your get the "perfect mix" for the depth you are at. Always has he maximum allowable amount of O2 with the least amount of nitrogen.
I thing using it with nitrox as diluent is a misunderstanding. Or misinformation, as they're talking about 12 hrs. dive time. That would be on the stated 5.2 lbs. of absorbent, which I rather doubt is possible. Even more so since the prototype shown used ExtendAir cartridges. The same ones have 2 hour rating in Dolphin and Azimuth ... .
Check here for more info:
http://www.therebreathersite.nl/
http://www.bishopmuseum.org/research/treks/palautz97/rb.html

[madmole]

Its also possible to use Nitrox as the O2 supply gas. For example the Inspiration can be calibrated and run on as weak a mix as 70% on the O2 side

Just means you bubble a little as there is Nitrogen being introduced each inject

Great for bailout as it means you can carry 80% say as a bailout deco gas and still use it in emergency as a plug in O2 side supply if the solenoid jams for example

Hey! maybe carry a pure Helium Dil and use Nitrox on the O2 side to get a trimix mixing machine :D

[caveseeker7]

Using Nitrox instead of Oxygen kinda misses the point of diving a CCR. Decent bailout option, but I wouldn't plan my dives around Nx80.

You're supposed to use O2 with Nitrolium in the diluent tank if you want a trimix mixing machine. Page 95 of your manual. :D

[madmole]

Oh dont worry I do use O2

But if going deeper I use onboard trimix and O2 and off board air and 80% or 70%

That way if I do bail I can do a little better on the deco than having to stay on the weak trimix all the way up and can still use the 80% in the RB for semi closed or CCR manually if required (solenoid stuck open/closed)

Just another advantage of a good CCR, its very flexible and gives you a lot more options than open circuit

My plan if it all goes pear sheped is OC/DSV bail to 3l Trimix for sanity and head up, then above 60 I can change to the air (if going deeper the air would be say 18/30 or domething similar), Then I can do most of my stops on the 80% till 6m when I can use the onboard O2

[caveseeker7]

Looks like the final, CE & OSHA certified Nemesis will make it's debut at DEMA this year. With integrated deco computing and thermal scrubber monitoring. Should be available within a month afterwards.That was the good part. The bad one is that the price will of course be higher as published before, the new target price is supposed to be around $8500. :upset:

Was it someone on this board that said CCRs will get cheaper?

[padiscubapro]

caveseeker7 once bubbled...
Looks like the final, CE & OSHA certified Nemesis will make it's debut at DEMA this year. With integrated deco computing and thermal scrubber monitoring. Should be available within a month afterwards.That was the good part. The bad one is that the price will of course be higher as published before, the new target price is supposed to be around $8500. :upset:

Was it someone on this board that said CCRs will get cheaper?

The prototype at ZeroG didn't work well... had several floods.. finally traced down to a missing o ring, then the custom battery pack stopped working... so in total it was in the water for 3 days...
also the unit showed up without the deco computer.. the final computer WILL NOT support trimix, only nitrox and heliox.

Mauricio ended up doing the deepest azimuth nitox dive to date on the carrie lee... it was a very short bounce dive... and he needed both onboard tanks to do the dive...

[caveseeker7]

padiscubapro once bubbled...

The prototype at ZeroG didn't work well... had several floods.. finally traced down to a missing o ring, then the custom battery pack stopped working... so in total it was in the water for 3 days...
Sad to hear that. Missing O-ring sounds like sloppiness, though. Can't hold that against the rig unless it was delivered without it.
Never liked custom batteries, expensive and hard to come by. I'd rather have standard batteries available at most any store, even if it means several of them. If I remember right, the Cochran and DeltaP computers take various kind of batteries, the Prism runs off a 9V. That sort of thinking.

padiscubapro once bubbled...

also the unit showed up without the deco computer.. the final computer WILL NOT support trimix, only nitrox and heliox.
Wasn't there just a debate about trimix vs. helox? I don't dive helium mixes,
what do those of you who use helium in your CCRs (SCRs too, I guess) use?
Heliox or Trimix?

padiscubapro once bubbled...

Mauricio ended up doing the deepest azimuth nitox dive to date on the carrie lee... it was a very short bounce dive... and he needed both onboard tanks to do the dive...
Dare I ask how deep, or will someone try this at home? No AF on hand?

[padiscubapro]

caveseeker7 once bubbled...

Sad to hear that. Missing O-ring sounds like sloppiness, though. Can't hold that against the rig unless it was delivered without it.
Never liked custom batteries, expensive and hard to come by. I'd rather have standard batteries available at most any store, even if it means several of them. If I remember right, the Cochran and DeltaP computers take various kind of batteries, the Prism runs off a 9V. That sort of thinking.


The nemesis will be using a pack designed for the military.. the unit is pretty power hungry so it will need the pack.. also remember the prism electronics do very little.. no pwer hungry displays or deco computers to run..




Wasn't there just a debate about trimix vs. helox? I don't dive helium mixes,
what do those of you who use helium in your CCRs (SCRs too, I guess) use?
Heliox or Trimix?

I generally use trimix, Heliox dives incur too much of a deco penalty for short bottom times, on long dives I use Heliox. Since there are no officially accepted tested trimix tables from any military they will not support it..



Dare I ask how deep, or will someone try this at home? No AF on hand?

only 163, There aren't any major differances between the AF and standard.. To do it with any safety much larger cylinders are going to have to be used..

[caveseeker7]

padiscubapro once bubbled...
The nemesis will be using a pack designed for the military.. the unit is pretty power hungry so it will need the pack.. also remember the prism electronics do very little.. no pwer hungry displays or deco computers to run..
Well, lets hope they sort that battery problem out before they get rigs to the military. Or anyone else. Still, I like the idea that the power source is easy to get. And different sources work. Some of the stuff I read about Inspirations not just needing a certain model, but manufacturer because minimal battery-size differences cause problems seems ridicoulous. But that's just me.

There is a good and bad side to everything, isn't there. The Prism might have basic electronics, but you could probably find a 9V battery in the Caymans ... .
Why not split them, let the handsets/deco computers have their own ... probably something wrong with that thought, though.
How is the HH powered?

padiscubapro once bubbled...

I generally use trimix, Heliox dives incur too much of a deco penalty for short bottom times, on long dives I use Heliox. Since there are no officially accepted tested trimix tables from any military they will not support it..
Makes sense. How about the rest of you avid readers? Or do I have to threaten a poll? :wacko:


padiscubapro once bubbled...

only 163, There aren't any major differances between the AF and standard.. To do it with any safety much larger cylinders are going to have to be used.. That's plenty for Nitrox. The AF I looked at had 10ltr rather than 3ltr tanks. Am not sure if they had three times the capacity under pressure, though. But CMF and different mixes just doesn't do it for me. Then I'd rather go with a RMV/passive SCR.

[padiscubapro]

The current HH electronics are powered by 2 X 1/2 aa lithium cells for each handset.. the newer electronics that will be out shortly will use any single AA size cell..

[KentCe]

Is the battery issue that big of a deal? The 223 used by the Inspiration is available at my local grocery store. Dragging a 44lb keg of sofnolime around and making sure O2 is available is a far bigger problem than a few extra batteries in the spares kit.

I'm far more concerned about O2 sensor issues (try buying one of those on the local market). :wacko:

[caveseeker7]

Of course they're not that big of a deal, and it's easy to pack and carry a couple of spares. But it shouldn't be a necessity as long as you're in around civilization. As far as the Nemesis' battery, if it's a high output custom it's probably expensive. So how many do you want to take along? And since they're rechargeable you'll also be hauling the charger. And a back-up?

I understand your concern about the sensors and their availability. In that respect the Prism is probably the least easy to supply, as it uses proprietory high-output sensors (to run the analog secondary). As far as I know you can get them only from Steam Machines.

Sofnolime, oxygen, sensors ... you learn to plan your trips around your needs, pick resorts, shops or towns accordingly. Or your vacation turns into a self-sufficient little expedition. Give it a few more years and things will get better. From the Red Sea to the Maledives and Philipines to the Caymans you'll find people that supply RBs (usually Dolphins and Inspirations). As users increase, so will bases.

[KentCe]

caveseeker7 once bubbled...
Of course they're not that big of a deal, and it's easy to pack and carry a couple of spares. But it shouldn't be a necessity as long as you're in around civilization. As far as the Nemesis' battery, if it's a high output custom it's probably expensive. So how many do you want to take along? And since they're rechargeable you'll also be hauling the charger. And a back-up?

I understand your concern about the sensors and their availability. In that respect the Prism is probably the least easy to supply, as it uses proprietory high-output sensors (to run the analog secondary). As far as I know you can get them only from Steam Machines.

Sofnolime, oxygen, sensors ... you learn to plan your trips around your needs, pick resorts, shops or towns accordingly. Or your vacation turns into a self-sufficient little expedition. Give it a few more years and things will get better. From the Red Sea to the Maledives and Philipines to the Caymans you'll find people that supply RBs (usually Dolphins and Inspirations). As users increase, so will bases.

I agree and that was my point. As one needs to plan out a dive trip the issue of trying to find the right batteries on a trip is moot as one will have the enough batteries with them. Otherwords, I wouldn't buy product X just because it uses common AA cells. I have 5 extra O2 sensors so that shouldn't be a problem on a trip. :D