Was your Vip Done correctly..

[padiscubapro]

According to an addendum posted to the 2002 DOt regualtions it seems that many LDS are not doing VIPs correctly..


49 CFR; Ch-1; Part 180; Subpart C; Section 180.205 (f); paragraph (2).


also a later paragraph also states for aluminuum cylinders testeing for SLC (sustained load cracking) must be done according to manufacturer's specifications..

That means all Catalina's should be eddy tested, for luxfers all older Al alloys must be tested..


The latest attendum states all attachments or coatinfs the prevent inspection of the cylinder MUST be removed..

[roakey]

By PSI inspector #10058, which would be me.

My poor steel doubles have to go in for their first hydro once I use them (filled them the day before the hydro expired :)).

I don't want to cut lose of my babys! :)

Roak

[CobaltWave]

I just had my Tank Viz'd. My dive shop actually showed me the whole process.

They took apart the valve, and inspected all the parts and made sure the O-Rings were in good repair.

Took a flash light and looked inside for cracks and any fluids.

Sniffed the inside of the tank to check for possible contanimation.

Took a mirror out to check the threads from bottom to top. Apparently, the 1st signs of stress start to show up at the threads.

Took the Viz Plus (eddy current) and screwed into the tank and rotated it making sure the current was even. Continued the test up to the threads to show what a deviation in the current was.

Replaced the valve, tested it for easy of use.

Removed the old sticker, and placed a new one one.

Filled the tank and tested for leaks.

They were very through and allowed me to double check everything.

[padiscubapro]

CobaltWave once bubbled...
I just had my Tank Viz'd. My dive shop actually showed me the whole process.

They took apart the valve, and inspected all the parts and made sure the O-Rings were in good repair.

Took a flash light and looked inside for cracks and any fluids.

Sniffed the inside of the tank to check for possible contanimation.

Took a mirror out to check the threads from bottom to top. Apparently, the 1st signs of stress start to show up at the threads.

Took the Viz Plus (eddy current) and screwed into the tank and rotated it making sure the current was even. Continued the test up to the threads to show what a deviation in the current was.

Replaced the valve, tested it for easy of use.

Removed the old sticker, and placed a new one one.

Filled the tank and tested for leaks.

They were very through and allowed me to double check everything.

he should have also taken a straight edge to check for dents or bulges, and if any other decals were present for example a nitrox cylinder wrap, it has to be removed..

[padiscubapro]

roakey once bubbled...
By PSI inspector #10058, which would be me.

My poor steel doubles have to go in for their first hydro once I use them (filled them the day before the hydro expired :)).

I don't want to cut lose of my babys! :)

Roak

yeah, but as long as you fill it yourself (personal compressor), for personal non commercial use and you have no plans on crossing any state lines its not covered by DOT and you can continue filling it...

[roakey]

CobaltWave once bubbled...
Took the Viz Plus (eddy current) and screwed into the tank and rotated it making sure the current was even. Continued the test up to the threads to show what a deviation in the current was.
What kind of cylinder? If AL, what was the year of first hydro?

Roak

[CobaltWave]

The tank is new hydro was this year. Since I bought this tank for use with Nitrox went went the extra mile.

He said the Viz plus wasn't actually necessary at this time, but not a bad idea. He also mentioned that some shops won't fill a tank that didn't have a Viz plus sticker on it.

[MikeFerrara]

padiscubapro once bubbled...
According to an addendum posted to the 2002 DOt regualtions it seems that many LDS are not doing VIPs correctly..


49 CFR; Ch-1; Part 180; Subpart C; Section 180.205 (f); paragraph (2).


also a later paragraph also states for aluminuum cylinders testeing for SLC (sustained load cracking) must be done according to manufacturer's specifications..

That means all Catalina's should be eddy tested, for luxfers all older Al alloys must be tested..


The latest attendum states all attachments or coatinfs the prevent inspection of the cylinder MUST be removed..

Since the DOT doesn't require an anual VIP why do they have a spec on it? Given that it doesn't have to be done at all, how can they say it's being done incorrectly? Sounds fishy to me.

[roakey]

CobaltWave once bubbled...
The tank is new hydro was this year. Since I bought this tank for use with Nitrox went went the extra mile.

He said the Viz plus wasn't actually necessary at this time, but not a bad idea. He also mentioned that some shops won't fill a tank that didn't have a Viz plus sticker on it.
It a bit worse than "wasn't actually necessary..." An eddy current test can have false positives on a 6061 alloy cylinder, see:

http://www.luxfercylinders.com/support/faq/sustainedloadcracking.shtml

Towards the very bottom.

He's right, many shops won't fill an AL cylinder without an eddy test, which show you how screwed up the industry is. I've even heard of shops eddy testing steel cylinders!

At first blush the shop sounds like it knows what it's doing, stick with 'em!

Roak

[CobaltWave]

Yep, this shop seems to be one the ball. What I really like is that they try and avoid "hot fills" of tanks. They'll do it but pefer not to.

The slower the fill the better, as far as I am concerned. It puts less stress on the valve threads and less stress on the metal preventing its expansion and contraction from the heat. With hot fills, over time I imagine, would greatly reduce the life of the tank.

[pasley]

padiscubapro once bubbled...
According to an addendum posted to the 2002 DOt regualtions it seems that many LDS are not doing VIPs correctly..

That means all Catalina's should be eddy tested, for luxfers all older Al alloys must be tested..


Since Catalina is the ONLY company that never used the problem alloy, why must it be eddy current tested? I am aware that any AL tank made befofe 1990 in USA EXCEPT Catalina are to be subspected of having been made of the problem AL alloy and must be eddiy tested.

This site has more informaitoin on why the alloy tanks must be tested. http://hazmat.dot.gov/rules/hm200_f.htm


padiscubapro once bubbled...
yeah, but as long as you fill it yourself (personal compressor), for personal non commercial use and you have no plans on crossing any state lines its not covered by DOT and you can continue filling it...[/B]
Actually, that is not my understanding of it. DOT has issued on 30 May 2003, clarification about this subject. Bottom line is even if it is used (or goes on the highways) INTRA State it is subject to DOT http://hazmat.dot.gov/rules/hm200_f.htm

[padiscubapro]

CobaltWave once bubbled...
The tank is new hydro was this year. Since I bought this tank for use with Nitrox went went the extra mile.

He said the Viz plus wasn't actually necessary at this time, but not a bad idea. He also mentioned that some shops won't fill a tank that didn't have a Viz plus sticker on it.

you never answered.. did he check the tank for dents and bulges and did he pull off the nitrox tank wrap to perform the vip..

[CobaltWave]

He did remove all stickers and the tank boot. Cleaned the exterior of the tank. He didn't use a straight edge to examine the exterior of the tank, but he ran his hands over the tank which I assumed was an external inspection, since he did note a few scratches and a paint chip.

[padiscubapro]

pasley once bubbled...


Since Catalina is the ONLY company that never used the problem alloy, why must it be eddy current tested? I am aware that any AL tank made befofe 1990 in USA EXCEPT Catalina are to be subspected of having been made of the problem AL alloy and must be eddiy tested.

This site has more informaitoin on why the alloy tanks must be tested. http://hazmat.dot.gov/rules/hm200_f.htm


Actually, that is not my understanding of it. DOT has issued on 30 May 2003, clarification about this subject. Bottom line is even if it is used (or goes on the highways) INTRA State it is subject to DOT http://hazmat.dot.gov/rules/hm200_f.htm

According to DOT regulations, you must follow specified DOT procedures AND manufacturer's recommendations..

this is from their site.. sounds like a recommendation to me

"Catalina Cylinders supports the use of eddy current devices to aid in the inspection of the threads of aluminum cylinders. Catalina Cylinders believes that eddy current devices should be used in conjunction with visual inspection, not as a replacement for visual inspection, in the inspection of the threads of aluminum cylinders."

The old CFRs had all kinds of loopholes and one thing countered another.. If they clafified/closed this loophole thats a good thing.. The rule also applied to the use of non dot rated cylinders.. I'll have to read the updated regs and see what else has changed.. they have been adding alot without realyy spreading the word.

[padiscubapro]

MikeFerrara once bubbled...


Since the DOT doesn't require an anual VIP why do they have a spec on it? Given that it doesn't have to be done at all, how can they say it's being done incorrectly? Sounds fishy to me.

Mike,
They have been doing all kinds of additions and clarifications to the regulations..

The cfrs for pressure vessels is over 1000 pages!

they have limits on goughe depts, pit depts, how many consecutive threads from top of cylinder down that must be perfect depending on pressure..

they no go as far as telling you have to insure any cylinder you "condem" must not be passed by another inspector.. the approved methods are "x" out some DOT infor or destroying the threads..