Help With Gear (Selection)

[Fat_Tony]

Guys,

I am really new to SCUBA and I am in the process of shopping for gear. Are there brands to stay away from or stores to stay away from for that matter? Should I go with a package or build my own. I dont know enuff to know what to look out for or what to look for even any help would be great.

What is a good price range to expect to pay for head to toe gear? I have been to a number of stores and get more confused everytime I leave a store. Some packages have tanks some dont etc ...

What should I be looking for?


Thanks,

Paul

[Coyote]

Paul,

Is all of Sharky's rental gear the same or do they have different BC, regs etc...? If they have diferent styles you might want to try them out and see what you like best. I noticed you were diving with Scubapro gear in Brockville, what did you think of it?. A lot of people on the board think highly of Scubapro gear.

Barry

[scuba_junkie]

Check out the 'Scuba Equipment' section of the site.... there are plenty of opinions and information to get a good start from there. :D

[Fat_Tony]

Coyote,

There rental gear is all the same. Seems to me there packages dont have the same stuff as there rental gear. All the gear I have rented has been good no problems there. Mind you I think I would like a weight intergrated BCD though. I think my problem is I dont want to buy something now and a year from now regret what I got.

Thanks,

Pal

[Tom R]

NTD has Halcyon Gear with Scuba Pro regs in the rental program.

Tom R

[knives]

Tom R once bubbled...
NTD has Halcyon Gear with Scuba Pro regs in the rental program.

Tom R


yes and it is worth trying the Halcyon gear...I wish I would have seen it before I bought all my gear the first time...once I tried the halcyon backplate setup, i sold all of my other gear and bought the halcyon.
:)

[another mike]

The Dive Center in Stittsville is selling their rental gear now, less than 2 seasons and prices are really competitive (Aeris bc's, Oceanic CDX and Delta 2 regs etc.) 613-836-0811 ask for fred

good luck where ever you find your gear, just keep it well maintained and "get it wet" as often as you can!


m

[vlada]

As others said - look at the equipment section of this board - tons of info there

In terms of specifics - get what fits you well and what makes you feel comfortable underwater - look for the shop that would either let you try all the gear in the pool or open water and would allow you to return/exchange you gear if it did not feel right

Buying as a package from a local store usually saves you a lot of $$$ as compared to buying separate items - plus they will always be there (hopefully) to service it for you

If you think you are going to dive late/early in the season - buy a cold water reg. Sherwood's (Blizzard and higher) are good, so are Apex, i can't complain about my Scubapro's either.

Whatever regulator you buy - make sure there is a shop in your area that can service that particular brand

Good luck,

Vlada

[mglasspo]

Here is a list of things you probably want

7mm farmer john wetsuit
mask
snorkel
fins
wetsuit boots
gloves
hood
first stage reg
second stage reg
octopus reg
air integrated dive computer (if you can afford it)
console with depth and SPG on it if you can't afford the computer
compass
weight integrated Buoyancy compensator
main underwater light
backup underwater light
underwater strobe light/glowsticks
2 80cubic foot compact aluminum tanks
dive flag and float with a reel
save a dive kit
various clips to keep your gear neat.

Now that's just basic gear you need for diving/night diving. There ARE Tonnes of kit you could buy. With the above gear configuration, expect to pay $3000 - $4000

Here's what to look for the make your life easier

- stores that allow you to try out gear in a pool
- comfortable gear that fits you well
- stores that give you a discount on service for purchasing your gear there.
- stores that give you an air for life option with your tanks -- this can pay off really well.
- friendly, knowledgable staff that want to help you and don't mind spending the time with you.

You'll usually get a better deal on your gear if you buy it all at once. Expect and ask for at least 15% off the entire order if you're making a big order. Most stores will help you out a bit here, especially seeing you'll be back in for your annual service and to buy little toys.

[MAGELLAN]

Check out Rodale's site. They have rated almost every piece of equipment you could buy, along with suggestions on what to look for etc.

http://scubadiving.com/gear/

As far as purchasing (dont tell anyone) but check out Leisurepro.com Just the mention of this website will cause quite a flurry. You might even do a search for Leisure pro and see the differing opinions about it. One thing I can tell you, you can't beat the prices, the only thing lacking is being able to try stuff on, and worst of all warranites, which aren't really a big a deal as everybody makes out of it. Your looking at saving about 40-50% off what your local dive shop would like to charge you, and when your talking about something between $1000 and $3000 that's a lot of money.

www.leisurepro.com

[MAGELLAN]

Ok more advice, take it or leave it. Don't buy a package, unless it really just makes sense. I don't think I have any two things from the same manufacturer. Choose your items based on saftey above all, and then I would say comfort, and features (which all kind of go hand in hand). The gear for my wife and I cost us a little over $1500 a piece (Leisure pro:) , that would have been $2800 at LDS:( ). I could have easily gone a few $100 cheaper or way more expensive (We even got some great gear bags, lights, slates, etc. in there, not neccessarily important for your first set of gear). It would be better for you to pick some specific items to ask about, bc's for example. I'm a fan of Zeagle, I like others too, but Zeagle has some features I really like, like comfort, back inflation, etc. Just a start.

One thing I've noticed about Local Dive Shops (LDS, thought I'd explain that, took me awhile to catch on) is that if they don't sell it it doesn't exist, which can be very limiting. And be ready for some sales pressure, not too different than car shopping. I know, for example, that the sales personnel at my dive shop are paid commission on their sales. I still go there and buy stuff, but nothing major (sorry guys, yeah capitialism:D ).

[JimC]

Be warry of buying from Leisure pro in Canada. After exchange, duties, taxes, tarifs and shipping... you'll be lucky to save much of anything.

My only sugestion is to get down to Kingston and test fly a wing. For me it was the single best diveing purchace I have made.

[Fat_Tony]

By package I didnt mean all the gear was from one company just a package the store has put together. I just dont want to buy the wrong setup and regret it later.

As for buying online. I will compare the prices, but have no intention of buying online unless there is a HUGE difference. If you dont support your local community it will not grow. If you dont support your LDS are you going to ship your tanks away for air fills?

Paul

[wetman]

Before you do buy anything, PLEASE try a backplate and singles wing first - you wont regret it (if you dont know what that is read on and i explain it a bit). I bought a ranger the first year and then did the backplate route the second year. Its like night and day. My first year diving i bought a ton of crap and i dont think i dive with any of it any more (and i only started two years ago). This seems to happen to a lot of people who start diving - many people i know have bought a first round and then a second round. Hopefully this will help you see why.

Since i just went through this whole process recently heres what happened:

Bought a bunch of crap the first year (zeagle ranger BC, heiser steel tanks and catalina aluminum tanks, 5/7 mil henderson wetsuit, bare drysuit, mares fins (quatros and volos), apeks tx 50 regs, suunto cobra, suunto stinger, cressi big eyes mask, abyss gloves (5 mil)) as a starter kit.

Two years later here is where i am and why (for my single tank setup):

BC: Halcyon Backplate and wing.

I was jealous of some of my friends who had so little out in front of them while i had so much with the ranger. It had pockets i couldnt reach myself (because my gloves were too thick and with the amount of gear we wear up here, they really are almost impossible to open yourself so basically, they are useless. The other thing they add is bulk. Another problem the ranger had was that it rides up you like a bieast if you're vertical at all - it really needs a crotch strap to keep it in place. Also, the cumberbund setup was bulky too. Needless to say, i felt encased in a nylon tomb that i'm quite sure could add to levels of frustrations in the case of any emergency underwater. The ranger has one thing going for it though in that its a back inflate BC. Back inflates are important because they dont squeeze your torso when they are inflated. That is important because the last thing you want to do underwater is to restrict your breathing in any way at all - and guess what these wraparound BCs do - thats right they squeeze you. So, what i ended up getting was a backplate and wing and heres why - if you ever look at a harness that holds the backplate to you - its nothing more than 2 nylon straps for your arms/shoulders and a waste strap with a crotch strap to hold it in place. Thats it. The first time you try it on you cant believe how little there is in front of you. Its a beautiful thing that truly feels like part of your body. Now the other thing is the wing (which is basicall just the bladder part of any regular bc - in this case its separate but just attaches with a couple of screws to a steel backplate that your harness is on.) The wing to choose right now is one called the Halcyon Pioneer (or another one from a company called oxycheq but i have no experience with that one and few people would as they are brand new). The reason why is that they are small and have a donut shape - in other words, you can transfer air from one side to the other by leaning to get your head up or by sticking your butt up in the air. Either way will get the air to the other side and help you even out. It just makes life very easy. Another thing to consider is that you can reduce weight on your weightbelt by putting it in the backplate depending on the material you buy. Its very nice to have weight back there with the tanks - try it a few times and you'll see why. On more thing to consider on any bc is that you dont need a really long inflator hose. The longer it is the more floppy it is. And the more floppy it is the less likely it is to be in the place that you need to grab for it when you do need to grab it. Another benefit to the strapping on a backplate setup is that they are infinitely adjustable and can fit a 100 pounder as well as they can fit a 400 pounder - they will always fit you right. You can also buy backplates depending on if you're extra tall or not as well. One last thing - there is nothing "technical" about a backplate and single wings setup. Don't let anyone tell you otherwise. Oh ya, and one more last thing about the backpalte and wings setup - price: they are not as expensive as some of the higher end bcs out there.

Tanks: You cant really go wrong with starting with aluminum tanks but if you already feel your weight belt is too heavy, steel tanks can help that but are quite expensive to start out with. I'd start with aluminums and see if they're good enough. I personally liked heavier tanks but the heisers were a bit too heavy to double up (which i eventually did with my steels) - pressed steel tanks are the way to go - especially the new ones if they ever make it to this country. If you're an airhog like i was (and basically still am) the steels give you a lot more options as far as what size you can get - you can get 130 cf monsters if you want but be prepared to get big shoulders as they are quite heavy.

Wetsuit: not much to say there, i mostly dive dry now unless i go south or the water is warm up here. It is much nicer to jump into a very small suit as opposed to big bulky ones. I dont think i'd buy a really expensive wetsuit again though - just not sure i see the reason for it. I'd likely save some money there and get a cheaper one.

Bare Drysuit: was a quality built suit, but didnt like the fit. Drysuit fitting sucks. If you ever get one, i wish you luck.

Mares fins: Buckle and strap problems will be your nemesis. I've seen more Mares buckles or straps fail in two years than should statistically be possibly. The quatros are decent enough fins and the volos are the expensive fancy versions that arent worth a quarter of what the quatros are. Wasted money on the volos for sure. The key is, get simple fins with no fancy features (i.e. floppy volos or split fins). You cant learn to properly fin if you dont have proper fins. Plus, proper fins are typically cheaper so you win there. No matter what fins you end up buying, you'll likely want to simplify them a bit by putting spring straps on them (look those up on scubaboard, there is much information here on those).

Apeks tx50 reg: this was a high quality reg at the time, and still is. I have other apeks regs now and love them all. They all breathe well. I've taken a few courses in the past year where you have to do a lot of air shairing drills. A lot of the other regs i've tried during those courses have told me the apeks regs were an excellent choice - they breath beautifully. I think the higher end scubapros are the same. The nice thing about the apeks line is that even the lower end ones (read: cheaper) breathe very well as well. As far as your octo goes, DO NOT CHEAP OUT. Imagine this. Your buddy comes to you for air for whatever reason - hes panicy and desperately needs another breath from your octopus. He grabs it and its not giving him enough air because its a cheap regulator that you saved 100 bux on. You get the picture. You may hopefully never need it, but when you do, you really do. If you cant comfortably do a dive using your octopus regulator for the whole dive, then you cant justify using it as your backup. But it is hard to tell if you have a bad breathing regulator in the first 20 feet or so (its easy to make a reg that breathes easily in shallow depths).

Suunto cobra - which is a console computer (i.e. mounted on your high pressure hose to show you your air pressure). Suunto stinger which is a computer mounted on your arm. I've sold the cobra and still use the stinger but i have a regular pressure gauge on my high pressure hose now. The thing with consoles is that you have to look at your console for things like depth and time. Its far easier to look at your wrist for those things - its more of a quick glance. You dont typically need to check your pressure quite as much. But if you have a console, then you've got to look at it for all three things and it becomes inconvenient compared to the wrist.

Cressi Big Eyes mask: no complaints, love it, bought another and will keep buying them - tried the newer horizon version of the same thing and hated it. Lots of viewing room and more than any mask i've even tried recently (about 20 in the past little while). The only thing i can say here is get a dark skirt on the mask - i've recently thought i was missing something with my dark skirt and tried a clear skirt silicon one, and the glair that comes through to the lens was unbearable. Horribly useless actually.

Abyss 5 mil gloves: doesnt really matter which brand name but i've recently learned that 3 mill gloves are typically good enough for even some of the lower 40 degree waters that you might find yourself in around here for the length of time you'll find yourself there. They are more dexterous and generally feel better on. When the water gets really warm (like it is now on the st. lawrence) then something called reef gloves will do you just fine and keep you nice and cool. If you need kevlar on your gloves , you're likely touching too many things with zebra muscles on them - try not to touch stuff which can be easier said than done when you're new, but keep it in mind.

Thats it - from a guy who just went through it all and wish i had read something like this back then. Hope it helps.

A couple last thoughts: Rodales pretty much recommends almost everything the review. Its only the really bad stuff that they seem to pan. Keep that in mind. There is much better advice here on scubaboard than anywhere else in the world. As was mentioned before, check out the gear section on this board. The other thing is, if you're buying from the states, dont forget to consider the brokerage fees etc. There really isnt much of a free ride up here in Canada.

I'm not sure what shops are like in ottawa, but shops in peterborough, kingston and mallorytown are all very good to deal with. I've dealt with them all and can pretty much recommend them all. But no matter what shop(s) you go to, it boils down to the gear you finally choose though - some shops carry different lines than others. Its much better to be very informed before you talk to them - that way your BS meter will be finely tuned if you feel something is off. Talk to people who use the gear and get their opinions on it and why. Remember though that people who buy stuff seem to say they like it wether they really like it or not - otherwise they may feel like they're idiots for buying something. And shops who sell gear want to sell the gear they sell - so some hype what they have and badmouth other brands. Me i dont care - i like it i buy it. If it ends up sucking, well, thats a lesson learned and i'll freely tell the world just how much it sucks. And i've bought much that sucks. Far too much. Crying now...
;-0
steve

[MAGELLAN]

I'll get my tanks filled one way or another. Not too worried about that, somebody will be willing to do it. For $1000 wouldn't it be worth flying to New York and buying directly from leisure pro, I have no idea if that would work or not, guess you'd have to ship it to yourself? Don't know.

Anyway, I say Ditto on the Cressi Big Eyes, Love 'em.

[deep_ocean]

Hi,

I'm in a simmilar position. Slowly putting together my gear. Unfortunatelly, I couldn't afford to spend $2000-$3000 at once, so every now and then I pick up a piece :) I agree that safety should be the main concern, but depending on how much diving you are planning to do, you may be OK going for more recreational (read: less expensive) gear. I'm absolutely not telling you to stay away from the back plates, wings and more technical equipment, but don't go nuts - buy what you will actually need.



Good luck.

safe diving

deep_ocean

[knives]

yes ,I agree with wetman...My experience was similar...

I was so anxious at first , I bought whatever the store and instuctor thought would do me. I had no idea of any other styles .
oh well , I am set now ...have my sigle tank setup with Halcyon backplate, a 7m wetsuit, I finally ordered a drysuit from Diving Concepts , because I am tired of being cold and I want to extend my dive season to diving in december In Ontario.
I can not afford to go south too often.

good luck....let me know if you come down to dive Kingston and want to dive, I am there often...

[JimC]

When the new E8 PST tank's get TC certified, I will be using nothing from my first package. Diveing for little over a year now I have replaced everything except tanks and regs.

One of my AL80's might get pressed into service as a stage bottle in a few years, if I'm lucky.

[El Orans]

wetman once bubbled...

Cressi Big Eyes mask: no complaints, love it, bought another and will keep buying them - tried the newer horizon version of the same thing and hated it. Lots of viewing room and more than any mask i've even tried recently (about 20 in the past little while).

I'll second that. A great mask with an added bonus: since the frame has a peculiar shape it's much easier to be recognized in low vis.

[sean__wong]

Hey,
this thread has a monster contributors ! Thanks to all who reponded,

Tony what did you end up getting ?

FYI

I'm in a similar situation 2years Diving , about to invest in some gear I'm think ing of the following items for my ensemble.

I allready bought a locally made exposeure suit fins and mask / snorkle.

the new Gear could be

BCD = Mares Dragon fly, it's the only locally supported combo Jacket wit hwing and IWS.

Regs = Mares Abyss Regs, + Ocy , Perhaps the Proton, (its got a new sperical seat apparently)

computer = Mares MC1 computer with non integrated Gauge

Sean

[Fat_Tony]

Sean,

I have not gotten the gear yet. I am still in the process of visiting various shops and checking out there product lines and pricing. I am going to buy all of the gear from one shop though as I think I will get my best price that way. I might even try to get them to throw in a free course or give one hell of a deal on one.

Paul

[Kevin R]

Paul

Just one other piece of advice on your gear. Look at the annual cost to service your gear. I repair regs for one of the shops in Ottawa and will tell you that your regs will pay for themselves if you purchase qood quality ones that come with a lifetime warranty. I own several sets of Apeks (2 for my backgas, 5 stage regs and one for my argon bottle). I have never paid for parts, the manufacturer does that, they require very little maintenance and they all get dove hard in Canada all year round. I've never had one let me down. I also have an Aqualung Arctic for my single tank setup which is a similar design and has the same warranty, and no problems.

Fins- Scubapro Jetfins with halcyon spring straps NOT TWIN JETS. Learn to do a proper frogkick and you now have a fin that will last forever and a strap you'll never have to replace.

Ditto on the wing and backplate. I dive doubles and single tank in either a 55lb halcyon double tank wing or a 35 lb halcyon single tank wing and won't even touch a jacket in the pool.

If you want to see what the wing system looks like, PM me and we'll hook up.

Kevin Ripley

[jroy017]

Somebody was menionning a shop that rented Halycon but just named the abbreviation of the shop. What and where is that shop exactly or did I just miss-read?:confused:

[knives]

Hi

The shop is Northern tech diver in Kingston
NTD (http://www.northerntechdiver.com) :)

[Groundhog246]

sean__wong once bubbled...
BCD = Mares Dragon fly, it's the only locally supported combo Jacket wit hwing and IWS.

Regs = Mares Abyss Regs, + Ocy , Perhaps the Proton, (its got a new sperical seat apparently)


I like the Mares regs, although I'm more partial to Aqualung.

The basic Dragon Fly is not bad, but stay away from the "Airtrim" model. The Dragon Fly is NOT a wing or even a back inflate, it's a jacket. I'm a lot more partial to the Jubilee, which is back-inflate, similar to a wing. (fwiw, I dive a Sherwood Outback)


from the Mares site
New back-mounted model minimizes space during transport and reduces water friction during the dive.

Ample padding in the backpack area affords an improved fit and greater tank stability against the diver's body. The new swivel buckles on the shoulder straps permit correct positioning of the vest, assuring maximum stability.
Two fixed "Trim Weight" pockets with buckle closures, capable of holding up to 5 lbs/2 kg each, assure a balanced underwater swimming position.
New padded collar for superior comfort
MRS integrated weighting system as standard.


I haven't tried a wing yet. I have dove with buddy's wearing wing and backplate, and other than the backplate and lack of integrated weights, see little difference between wing/bp and my Outback. There IS a bp available to fit the Outback BC. At this point in time, doubles are not in my future plans.

[Jimmy B]

BP and Wing are not just for doubles anymore,

[Groundhog246]

Jimmy B once bubbled...
BP and Wing are not just for doubles anymore,

Fair enough. What advantage would a bp/wing/single tank adaptor offer over my current rig of a Sherwood Outback? If you're not familiar with the Outback, it's back inflate, 55lb lift, weight integrated. A backplate to accomodate doubles is available for the Outback.

[Boogie711]

Groundhog246 and I are friends. I was (I think) the buddy he referenced in talking about backplate vs his outback.

Should I talk about how streamlined the entire outfit is? How about modular - whether I'm doing doubles or singles, it's still the same plate.

How about I talk about cost - I know you paid $700 Cdn for the Outback, wasn't it? My plate was $125 US, my new Oxycheq wing was $265 US. That's it for life - my plate is literally bulletproof. The wing may need replaced after a decade or so, perhaps.

Want me to talk about comfort? My plate is dialed in to my exact specifications. It truly disappears in the water. I can't feel it. No quick adjustments once I get it on, no mussing around with straps or buckles - well, one buckle, at the waist.

Should I talk about portability? One plate and one wing will take up perhaps 1.5 inches on the bottom of a suitcase. My Oxycheq came delivered in a box about the size of a shoebox on steroids.

And the granddaddy point - natural buoyancy. How many pounds does it take to sink your completely deflated Outback? Probably two or three, at least. That's two or three pounds off my weightbelt.

You've seen my suit - with full hood and gloves and a Mares Isotherm semi dry, using a PST E7-100, I wear 8 pounds on my belt. I might try 7 pounds next week and see how that works.

And just for the record, Sir - the respect is real, and you asked. :)

[jonnythan]

Groundhog246 once bubbled...


Fair enough. What advantage would a bp/wing/single tank adaptor offer over my current rig of a Sherwood Outback? If you're not familiar with the Outback, it's back inflate, 55lb lift, weight integrated. A backplate to accomodate doubles is available for the Outback.

I was in your position a year or so ago when I got my very slick Tusa back inflate BC. Even UP agreed that it was.. slick :)

In fact it was really about the first thread I participated in on the board. I picked a fight and challenged UP to tell me why a bp/wing was better than what I had.

Since then... let's just say I've seen the light.

Find one you can borrow. Try it out, and you'll see what you've been missing.

Lost Yooper, god rest his soul (he's still out there, but died a scubaboard death if yanno what I mean ;)), said it best: "This is a typical misconception from people who haven't tried it."

[jroy017]

HEy well I guess I,m in the same situation just got an outback this year i<m completly satisfied but have been looking at the plate-wings setup and well... with all the comments i've heard on the board i hesitant to try wings and backplate( i dont have the money right now to switch my gear) you guys are killing me....

dive safe

:doctor:

[Groundhog246]

Boogie711 once bubbled...
Want me to talk about comfort? My plate is dialed in to my exact specifications. It truly disappears in the water. I can't feel it. No quick adjustments once I get it on, no mussing around with straps or buckles - well, one buckle, at the waist.

And the granddaddy point - natural buoyancy. How many pounds does it take to sink your completely deflated Outback? Probably two or three, at least. That's two or three pounds off my weightbelt.

You've seen my suit - with full hood and gloves and a Mares Isotherm semi dry, using a PST E7-100, I wear 8 pounds on my belt. I might try 7 pounds next week and see how that works.



Dialed in is fine, so's my Outback. Yep, there are a couple of adjustments that can easily be made, and they nicely accomodate my three different apparell configuations (3 mil, 7 mil and 7 mil plus jacket).

Your "natural buoyancy" statement is mis-leading. How much does the backplate weigh? And does the wing sink or float without it? Deflated and trim weights in, my Outback sinks. Haven't tried it without trim weights, to see how much it needs to sink it, but I doubt it's much. If you really want to get "technical", I've got nothing on my weight belt. :out: I think if you did an objective comparison (I've not dove a bp/wing, you've not dove an Outback and we both dislike a standard jacket) adding up the weight of your bp/wing/steel in your Isotherm and my Outback/total weights/AL80 (floaty tank) and my 7mm without the jacket, we'd be pretty close weight wise.

I am not anti bp/wing, I think it's a good rig, but I am also extremely pleased with my current configuration. I can easily change the amount of trim weight and total weight to accomodate different tanks (ST or AL) and different wet suits.

[Boogie711]

Just for the record - Groundhog and I are friends, and this is NOT a flame war. :)


Your "natural buoyancy" statement is mis-leading. How much does the backplate weigh? And does the wing sink or float without it? Deflated and trim weights in, my Outback sinks. Haven't tried it without trim weights, to see how much it needs to sink it, but I doubt it's much.

See - that's it. I carry my weight AS my bc. You carry weight in your BC.

I bet it takes at least two or three pounds, between the padding in the shoulder straps, cummerbund attachment et al. You're right, in that we both don't like jacket BC's, and to be very fair, the Outback is a fairly minimalist setup - for a BC.

But it's still bouyant.

If you take away my 'integrated weight' (the backplate) you're stuck with 10 feet of nylon webbing and a wing. One pound sinks the whole kit and caboodle, right to the bottom, if it even takes that much.

And incidentally, you didn't address my ease of travel or lower cost arguments. :)

We're still friends?

[Groundhog246]

Boogie711 once bubbled...
I bet it takes at least two or three pounds, between the padding in the shoulder straps, cummerbund attachment et al.

And incidentally, you didn't address my ease of travel or lower cost arguments. :)

We're still friends?

Of course we are. Yes, it's probably a little more compact. I can, if needed for say airline travel, detach the shoulder and waist straps and flatten it to a couple of inches. And yes, it cost more.

There is NO padding in the shoulders or cummerbund (do not wear an Outback without some neoprene). The shoulders are nylon with an inner stiffener, webbing and D rings. Did I mention this BC has lots and lots of big s/s D rings?

[jroy017]

There is NO padding in the shoulders or cummerbund (do not wear an Outback without some neoprene). The shoulders are nylon with an inner stiffener, webbing and D rings. Did I mention this BC has lots and lots of big s/s D rings?

Yeah the straps really realy hurt without a wetsuit on. Dont use it in a pool without a wet....

Quick question do you have the same problem , when I dive without a hood the straps from outback rub against my skin on my neck hurts a bit (rash), managed to make sure my collar of wet is protecting me but still hurts sometimes any suggestions ? Its not a major problem but would like to know quick fix.

PS not a question of sizing tried on smaller BC didn't fit .

[Boogie711]

Did I mention this BC has lots and lots of big s/s D rings?

Lots of D-Rings is not, as Martha Stewart would proclaim, "a good thing."

[Fat_Tony]

I am still not sure what to get. The only difference between then and now is more decisions to make.

Paul

[Groundhog246]

jroy017 once bubbled...
when I dive without a hood the straps from outback rub against my skin on my neck hurts a bit (rash), .....
PS not a question of sizing tried on smaller BC didn't fit .

This is not a problem I've had with any of at least 4 different suits. I've even worn it with just farmer johns. There is a length adjustment on the shoulders. Mine are adjusted so that the top of the wing sits about my neck, with the hard part of the BC a couple of inches down.

Boogie, I guess D-rings or not, is a matter of perspective. Personally, I like places to clip off lights, camera, safety sausage, etc. I like it even better when they're close to hand.

Tony, I think if you sum up the advice, it's try as many BC's (and other equipment) as you can rent or borrow, before you purchase. Even though I don't dive bp/wing, I would recommend you try it if possible. For me, once I tried a back inflate BC, a jacket was not an option.

A quick list of some of what I have and some why's.

Outback BC, I love back inflate, got a good deal on it and my LDS supports.

Bare Extreme wetsuit, One piece, good fit, I find it warmer than a john/jacket. Also have a hooded jacket for it. What I have discovered in a wetsuit, fit is everything.

US Divers, Conshelf SE regs. Older, but solid reg, bought them used. Not adjustable, but have never felt it needed to be either. Good in cold water, only free flow ever, was on the surface, after a dive, single digit temps, when I lifted my head up to look for my buddy who'd surfaced a lot faster than me after his reg free flowed at 50 feet. I also really like the Aqualung, comfo-bite mouthpiece, some people don't. Again my LDS services Aqualung (also Apeks, Scubapro, Sherwood, Dacor, Mares and a couple of others).

Mares, Quatros fins. Some don't like the buckle mechanism, I do. I do carry spares, just in case. For me the easy on/off is worth risking the failure rate. As a side note, almost every instructor at my LDS (and it's 2 sister stores) wears Quatros.