bcd use in tek diving?

[dennisgrimm]

Hi,
I am new to diving (started just over 3 months ago). To make a long story short, I am hooked big. I have my PADI OW, AOW, wreck specialty, nitrox specialty, and am registered for my rescue course. I eventually plan on getting into tech diving (not for a while yet) and I was wondering....

Half way through my OW course I bought a zeagle tech bcd because I figured it would be a good bcd for years to come, no matter how far I wanted to go with this hobby. I am very happy with my bcd (even though I am only doing recreational diving right now). Does anyone do tech diving with a bcd? Other than comfort, what does a bp/wing setup let you do that you cannot do with a bc? Basically, do I NEED a bp/wing setup?

Thanks for putting up with a newbie

[BigJetDriver]

Dennis,

You are problably going to be amazed at all of the mail that will come in on this one subject! As Paul Harvey would say: "Stand by for NEWS!":eek:

I commend you on your interest in diving, and on your desire to go farther in your diving education. The Rescue course is always a good one to take because it gives you the confidence to be able to handle yourself in the water while you help someone else. I applaud you for doing it.;)

You will probably hear a lot of negative stuff about the combination of "BC" and "TECH DIVING"! I would recommend that you hold your own counsel, and continue the type of diving you are doing for a while. Your Zeagle will be just FINE for quite a while!:D Don't sell it. Don't buy new equipment just yet. Give yourself a chance to weigh pro's and con's (and trust me, you are about to hear a LOT of them), and then make a more educated decision. The realm of "technical diving" covers many sins, so to speak (Joke, guys, joke!;) )!!! Your BC will work in quite a few situations, and in others, it will not! Try reading "The Technical Diving Encylopaedia" by Mount, et al, from IANTD to get a good overview. (See also <www.bestpub.com> for more good books on the subject.)

O.K. boys and girls, fire away!!!:boom:

[rdriver]

Hey, What works works!
I personally have been diving with both and the only reason I use a BP and wings now is because I am diving with dual 120's and it puts kind of a strain on my zeagle, but as far as diving with smaller tanks it will work just fine until you get into deco procedures and Trimix where you might need larger tanks.
But for now I would say hang tight with your Zeagle.
Rob

[tyrell]

Hey

Zeagle is one of the best bcd’s for tech and recreational diving. Im using the Zeagle Ranger for something like 4 years for all my dives, form OW diving courses to TriMix dives.
U can mount on the zeagle up to 5 tanks with double bladder and it takes it all. It is possible to use with the zeagle a backplate , but it is not nessesery. It has a soft back that can support all the tanks u mount. You do not NEED a back plate when going into tech dive, but I believe that when the time comes and u will take the tech course u will b able to decide to take a backplane or leave the bcd as it is. Some of the diving instructors are under the impression that only a bp + wings are suited for tek dive. I believe that an open mind is more important than a standard configuration of equipment.

I believe u made a good decision when u bought it and u will b able to use it for all you’re activities.

Cheers

mark

[ColdH20diving]

Your Zeagle should last you for quite a while, I'd hold on to it as long as you are happy with it. I don't care for the ripcord weight ditch system but thats me. My friends Ranger is holding up very well.

[dennisgrimm]

Thanks everyone for the responses.:)

I am glad to hear that my zeagle should last me for a long time.

I am still wondering (maybe I am not listening hard enough).... what exactly is it that a BP can do that a BC can't? Is it just more stable? Why does DIR insist on a BP? :confused:

[MikeFerrara]

I started technical diving with a ranger. I switched to a tech when my wife took my ranger. I'll tell you what I didn't like. I find the d-rings positioned poorly for carrying a stage and backup lights the way I want to carry them. There isn't really any place to put a can light on the belt because the weight pouches are in the way and you don't really have a belt.

My big complaint is that the bladder is partially between you and the tanks so when their is air in the bladder the tanks move further away making it difficult for many to reach their valves. As I remember it was even worse on the tech pack which I also used.

That's my experience anyway.

[tyrell]

The idea of the backplate is that it suppose to hold the tanks more stable on youre back.

The backplate was invented originally for cave divig when u had to mount the tanks on side mont ( becouse the diver has to enter into narrow places and it was difficult to do that with the tank on the back) later, it was adopted by tek divers for open water dive.

My suggestion is that when it comes to that , make some dives with the back plate cofiguration and decide for yourlsef what is good for u.

cheers
mark

[BigJetDriver]

dennisgrimm once bubbled...
Thanks everyone for the responses.:)

I am glad to hear that my zeagle should last me for a long time.

I am still wondering (maybe I am not listening hard enough).... what exactly is it that a BP can do that a BC can't? Is it just more stable? Why does DIR insist on a BP? :confused:

Okay, even though I dive an Extended Range Inspiration on mixed-gas, which makes me a "Tool of the Devil" in the eyes of some DIR cultists I will try to offer some of the reasons. (NOTE: I did not say "all DIR folks", kids! Please take note of that BEFORE you get the flame-throwers out!:wacko: )

(1) A back-plate in stainless steel, which I use on my unit, will move a good chunk of the weight you need to your harness and off your hips, if you still wear a weight belt. (I prefer the DUI Weight and Trim II myself.)

(2) Using twins, especially big tanks, it gives you better support for the rig, and is, in fact more stable with the larger rig. (Is it more comfortable than a soft or semi-rigid back BC? Simply put, no! But the trade-off is for a reason.)

(3) Usually, the edges of the plate are drilled with holes which gives you some optional mounting points for various bits of kit.

These are, I would have to say, the BASIC reasons for going to a back-plate set-up. The "wings" style BCD is a natural fit for the rig then, because they come in various amounts of lift, tuck away between the plate and the tanks thereby staying out of the way of all the rest of the required gadgetry, and, more importantly for deep mixed gas work, come in redundant bladder configurations!

OKAY! With the basics out of the way, it is now time for the "Apostles" to come out of the wood-work and tell you EXACTLY what materials the buckles must be made of, and exactly how many you may have, and where they MUST be placed, lest you suffer the wrath of the "Ancient and Terrible Old Gods" (or more correctly, Ancient Demons)!!!:scared:

[jonnythan]

dennisgrimm once bubbled...
Thanks everyone for the responses.:)

I am glad to hear that my zeagle should last me for a long time.

I am still wondering (maybe I am not listening hard enough).... what exactly is it that a BP can do that a BC can't? Is it just more stable? Why does DIR insist on a BP? :confused:

Well, here's my list of reasons a BP is superior to a BC:


More stable platform for the tank (it moves around less)

Less weight on the weight belt/weight pockets

Super super super streamlined; means faster in the water, gets in the way less (really doesn't get in your way at all.. the entire BC disappears underwater)

Promotes good trim via weight distribution

Diving platform doesn't change going from singles -> doubles.. only the bladder changes

Will last forever

Completely modular

How's that?

[MikeFerrara]

BigJetDriver69 once bubbled...


OKAY! With the basics out of the way, it is now time for the "Apostles" to come out of the wood-work and tell you EXACTLY what materials the buckles must be made of, and exactly how many you may have, and where they MUST be placed, lest you suffer the wrath of the "Ancient and Terrible Old Gods" (or more correctly, Ancient Demons)!!!:scared:

Have they been beating you up lately? You sound a little gun shy. LOL

[BigJetDriver]

Johnnythan, If you'll read my post above, you will find that is what I said! I believe our posts crossed.;)

[dennisgrimm]

Thanks again. This is exactly the information I wanted to know.

Cheers, have a :beer: on me!

[BigJetDriver]

MikeFerrara once bubbled...


Have they been beating you up lately? You sound a little gun shy. LOL

Hey, Mike!

Good to hear from you again! Nah, H*ll no,at my age and experience level, I think you know I can hold my own in any discussion. I was just trying to head off the usual piranha-like "fanatics" and hold things down to a more reasonable roar for the benefit of the new guy's question!;) ROFL

Cheers, lad!:D

[crazyc]

BP and Wing

Simplicity
Uniformity
Balance
Proven performance
Craftmanship
Cost of repair

[BigJetDriver]

crazyc once bubbled...
BP and Wing

Simplicity
Uniformity??????
Balance
Proven performance
Craftmanship
Cost of repair

Uniforms??? We have to wear uniforms now??? When did we get signed back up???:wacko: :confused:

[crazyc]

Sorry about the flashback Big Jet!

Dive as a team. Configure the same.
Dive singles or doubles or RB, everything is the same. No surprises.

[ElectricZombie]

I say go with the BP/Wing for everything, both recreational and technical.

[bwerb]

A BP/Wings is cheaper and more adaptable to nearly every dive environment with exactly the same set-up everytime.

Need to replace the webbing...$16.00 max.

Plate itself...indestructible

Going to twins?...new wing.

I've still got a Raider if anyone is interested :D

[roakey]

BigJetDriver69 once blathered...

...DIR cultists...

...it is now time for the "Apostles" to come out of the wood-work...

...piranha-like "fanatics"...

Ya know, it wouldn't be so bad if you were willing to take it after firing the first shots, but the track record of you all running to mommy when we call you on this kinda tripe is well proven...

Roak

[BigJetDriver]

:D Touchy, aren't we tonight!:confused:

You obviously didn't note my caveat, or my intent to keep it civil! (Do remember that the shoe either fits or it doesn't!) =-)

I was actually amused at the fact that I sounded as if I were quoting material from another agency, and trying to be neutral.

Shall we just keep it on point?;)

[roakey]

BigJetDriver69 once bubbled...
You obviously didn't note my caveat, or my intent to keep it civil!
Ah yes, the first step of the "Those DIR folks are so mean" act: "I'm asking to keep things civil, you bunch of fanatical cultists."

You want to keep things civil? I'd say an apology is in order since you went on the offensive [both definitions implied] right out of the gate.

Dennis, I guess I'm one of those fanatical cultist apostles. If we did half the things we're constantly accused of doing, I'd hate us too. :) Fact is we don't, but some people can't support their arguments, so they resort to simply tearing other people down. I apologize for their behavior, it's an embarrassment to the sport.

But to the topic at hand.

Since you already own the Zeagle, keep the Zeagle for the time being. In my opinion it will NOT carry you to a technical endgame. You've got plenty of time and dives ahead of you before you get to doubles, which is where a BP & Wing really shines. Keep your eyes and ears open, and given the rising popularity of the BP&W system, you'll probably get to try out one before long. Then you can make an informed decision.

My only strict piece of advice is to not invest one red cent in "upgrading" the Zeagle in any way ("stabalizing plates" or whatever). Odds are you'll get rid of it when you move to doubles (if not before), and any additional investment in the Zeagle will be lost.

Maybe I should say something like "You should have 5 and only 5 D rings" to satisfy BigJetDriver69's delusions, but that's neither here nor there at this point in your diving.

Roak

Ps. Man, I completely missed the "'Ancient and Terrible Old Gods' (or more correctly, Ancient Demons)!!!" slam the first time around, you're just full of civility, aren't you BigJetDriver69? Please don't bother with step 2 of the "I'm hurt" act, which usually consists of some accusation that I don't know what a smiley face means, as if a direct insult followed by a smiley face makes it OK.

[dennisgrimm]

.... I will bite. Why 5 d-rings? Is this one of the things DIR teaches? Do I need to take a DIRF course before I can learn of the secrets? Is there a website or book on DIR? :confused:
I saw the Halcyon site, but it wasn't too specific. I would like to read about DIR and decide for myslef, but I haven't found any info yet.

PS - seems to be a lot of animosity between the DIR, non-DIR folk :rolleyes:

[bwerb]

dennisgrimm once bubbled...
.... I will bite. Why 5 d-rings? Is this one of the things DIR teaches? Do I need to take a DIRF course before I can learn of the secrets? Is there a website or book on DIR?
PS - seems to be a lot of animosity between the DIR, non-DIR folk :rolleyes:

Question 1.) One on the left shoulder, one on the right shoulder, one on the left hip, one on the front of the crotch strap, one on the back of the crotch strap.

Question 2.) Yes

Question 3.) No

Question 4.) The Fundamentals of Better Diving by Jarrod Jablonski...go to Great Pacific Diving (either location) if you want to take a look at/purchase a copy. Use the search button for "DIRF Class Reports" on this site (or PM CaveDiver) for some great internet references...he's done an awesome job putting them together.

Observation 1.) Sad isn't it.

[jonnythan]

dennisgrimm once bubbled...
PS - seems to be a lot of animosity between the DIR, non-DIR folk :rolleyes:

IME, most of the animosity is from non-DIR to DIR. The DIR are constantly defending themselves and explaining their choices.

[WaterDawg]

jonnythan once bubbled...


Less weight on the weight belt/weight pockets

Super super super streamlined; means faster in the water, gets in the way less (really doesn't get in your way at all.. the entire BC disappears underwater)

Promotes good trim via weight distribution

Will last forever






I think he pretty much took the words out of my mouth! With a special emphasison streamlined.

BTW it WILL last you forever.

your gonna havr to borrow one and make up your own mind.

The biggest thing IMO is not if you can use a Zeagle Tech for tech diving (you can), it's that if your diving singles AL80 it's OVERKILL 65lbs of lift wow!!! that more than what most people use for AL doubles (55lbs).