Not even a newby yet—needs advice.

[barralax]

Here's the deal, My fiance and I are wanting to get certified before we go to Hawaii next May but we haven't even signed up for my open water certification yet. I'm looking at purchasing just the bassics to get us started, but I don't want to have to re-purchase this stuff too quickly down the road either.

I've been to 3 LDS's and they all ticked me off with their B.S. on prices, what's included in the Open Water classes, product missinformation and such. So my new plan is go into the next LDS (they're everywhere here) and tell them from the get-go that I've already purchased my Mask/Snorkle/Fins and then ask them about their open water classes. I'm sorry but as a consumer/college student/about to get married and buy a house/young man who is purchasing equipment for two, I just have to go with LP. (I probably will buy the booties from the LDS though) If I can't meet our budget, we can't dive. Simple as that.

So all that said, I have some bassic equipment questions.

Fins: I bassically have a $50 (LP prices) price range.
I'm looking at some Tusa Imprex Open Heels. I'm looking at these because a co-worker who dives occasionally mentioned that the flexible interior part of the fin would be a plus. Is he full of it?

Snorkle: Mares Stream Dry Snorkle. Any Comments?

Mask: Scubapro Crystal VU Single Lens Mask with Purge. I'm looking at this mask because it's panoramic, low-volume and has purge: all things we [think we] want. It does happen to be a little cheaper than some comperable masks, but that actually worries me more than it interests me.

All in all I'm only asking if I'd be making a big mistake with any of this equipment. I'm sure I could ponder over this feature vs. this feature all day long. I could try stuff on at the LDS but they'd have to come WAY down on prices. The bottom line is I need to get into the 4 open water dives before the lakes get cold, so I need to hurry up and make up my mind.

All practicle and non-biased advice is extremely appricieated.
Thanks,
Barry

[Otter]

Have you asked Leisure Pro's Customer Service center for their opinion on your selection? They will want you facial dimensions in order to fit your mask.

Otter

[Walter]

Check e-bay for Scubapro Jet Fins (not imitations). You should be able to pick up a pair for under $50.

Get a plain J snorkel, no need for and bells and whistles. The devices added to snorkels are added to fix a lack of training. Don't pay extra for what you don't need.

Any low volume mask that fits and is comfortable will do.

[Wendy]

Where are you located?

Get a plan snorkel. No need for that dry snorkel just. I had one and it was the biggest waste of money, yes it worked great, but I hated it.

Also I've used a mask with a purge, but if that's what you want get it. Just remember that it can get snad trapped up in there and maybe flood, so keep it clean.

[GeekDiver]

I don't have any problems with buying online but I wouldn't buy a mask that way unless you've try one out in a pool and know it works for you.

I tried several masks to find one that fit that didn't leak. It took me several dives before I decided I didn't like it and bought another. A good mask can be hard to find and may take a few dives before you decide if you like it or not and will be hard to know it will leak unless you try it on. I would rather spend the money and have a local store to work with than making a blind fit from an online store and ending up with one that may or may not fit right or be uncomfortable. I don't think a purge in a mask is a big deal but whatever works best and makes your diving easer should be what counts.

A snorkle is a snorkle. The dry ones are nice but unless you like to snorkle alot I would get the cheapest one I could get. Alot of of divers won't use them once they have completed OW and only keep them incase they dive in an area that requires a long surface swim. I for one try to come up next to a boat and I try to spend as little time on the surface as need be. The only times I use one is during a class. I tried very hard to lose mine during open water but someone kept finding it and bringing it back to shore. People are so helpfull

Geek

[barralax]

I'm in Oklahoma.

Ok, I could more easilly justify the mask purchase from a LDS than the fins, the price difference isn't as much. I think I will go ahead and go with the dry snorkle because we do plan on doing some moderate snorkling and at $18 it's not that bad.

So does anyone have any Comments on those Tusa Imprex Open Heel Fins?
That's honestly what I'm most curios about.

[ZoCrowes255]

barralax once bubbled...
Here's the deal, My fiance and I are wanting to get certified before we go to Hawaii next May but we haven't even signed up for my open water certification yet. I'm looking at purchasing just the bassics to get us started, but I don't want to have to re-purchase this stuff too quickly down the road either.

I've been to 3 LDS's and they all ticked me off with their B.S. on prices, what's included in the Open Water classes, product missinformation and such. So my new plan is go into the next LDS (they're everywhere here) and tell them from the get-go that I've already purchased my Mask/Snorkle/Fins and then ask them about their open water classes. I'm sorry but as a consumer/college student/about to get married and buy a house/young man who is purchasing equipment for two, I just have to go with LP. (I probably will buy the booties from the LDS though) If I can't meet our budget, we can't dive. Simple as that.

All in all I'm only asking if I'd be making a big mistake with any of this equipment. I'm sure I could ponder over this feature vs. this feature all day long. I could try stuff on at the LDS but they'd have to come WAY down on prices. The bottom line is I need to get into the 4 open water dives before the lakes get cold, so I need to hurry up and make up my mind.

All practicle and non-biased advice is extremely appricieated.
Thanks,
Barry

I work for an LDS and I will tell you to purchase your equipment wherever you like HOWEVER do not use the LDS as a fitting room to purchase form Leisurepro. If you take up the salesmans time for him to help you to find and fit gear it is extremely rude to go buy it online.

I am a big fan of the ClearVU mask. Nice range of vision without being a huge high volume mask. I am not a huge fan of nose purges for new divers. If you have any problems with your ears a nose purge could make equalizing an even bigger pain.

[barralax]

I wouldn't ever use the LDS for fittings if I weren't going to buy from them. I should have made that clear. I was simply turned off by the three I've visited due to their sales tactics, I've only asked them about their prices and what they offer as far as the Certification classes go. I asked for, and got, no advice on products. I'd love to buy locally, and I understand the minimum advertised price clause, and I've heard I could possibly talk-down a LDS, but I don't have the time to hop from LDS to LDS seeing who is willing to hagel without being insulted, it's amazing how many LDS's there are in OKC; the closest relatively clear lakes (I've Heard 8 feet visability max) are about a couple of hours away, I frequent the two most popular of these lakes fairly regularly (boating) and have never seen enough scuba activity to seeming justify the amount of shops in the city. I'm sure I'm talking out of my @*$ here, but the market seems over-saturated. I guess they're all selling trips.

[chrispete]

I second ZoCrowe's comment - it seems to be increasingly popular to use dive shops as fitting rooms, we're seeing a lot of it here. The quickest way to lose the "nice little extras" that I give our customers here is to take up 15 minutes of my time when I have 6-8 other customers in the store waiting and then coming back the next week asking me to adjust your mask that you just bought online because it "doesn't fit the way it did here" (it's happened.)

Otherwise, you may want to give the LDS's a chance to beat the LP prices, walk in and let them know what you are paying for the entire package that you want (don't sweat the individual equipment as they may not be able to beat the price on the reg, but can beat something else to make the package price come out right) - I know that I've come really, really close to beating them before by throwing in extras that you won't get from LP (wouldn't it be nice to get something like free tank rentals/refills for the summer for example?) Ask for something like that, you may be surprised by the rensponse that you get, and if you are dive just 10 times in a summer, for both of you that adds up to around $200 savings over the summer on tank rentals.

[hodgson]

barralax once bubbled...
I it's amazing how many LDS's there are in OKC; the closest relatively clear lakes (I've Heard 8 feet visability max) are about a couple of hours away, I frequent the two most popular of these lakes fairly regularly (boating) and have never seen enough scuba activity to seeming justify the amount of shops in the city. I'm sure I'm talking out of my @*$ here, but the market seems over-saturated. I guess they're all selling trips.


Never been there... but I found this on Google... maybe it will help find a spot

http://www.okscuba.com/lakereport.html

Tenkiller Ferry Lake might be worth checking out if the Vis report is true.

[ZoCrowes255]

barralax once bubbled...
I wouldn't ever use the LDS for fittings if I weren't going to buy from them. I should have made that clear. I was simply turned off by the three I've visited due to their sales tactics, I've only asked them about their prices and what they offer as far as the Certification classes go. I asked for, and got, no advice on products. I'd love to buy locally, and I understand the minimum advertised price clause, and I've heard I could possibly talk-down a LDS, but I don't have the time to hop from LDS to LDS seeing who is willing to hagel without being insulted, it's amazing how many LDS's there are in OKC; the closest relatively clear lakes (I've Heard 8 feet visability max) are about a couple of hours away, I frequent the two most popular of these lakes fairly regularly (boating) and have never seen enough scuba activity to seeming justify the amount of shops in the city. I'm sure I'm talking out of my @*$ here, but the market seems over-saturated. I guess they're all selling trips.

If the guys at the diveshop are *******s then I would avoid them as well.

See if they offer any gear packages. The shop I work for does not offer discounts on the equipment however for those who buy their equipment from us we throw in defog, a bag to carry everything in ($30-$50 price range customers choice,) and a $50 discount on the price of class. Just call around and see if they offer anything like this.

If I were you I would call around and ask them about their teaching philosophy, training track record (any accidents) and see if you can find others who have been to that particular shop. The quality of teaching is more important than the cost of the course.

[Kayla]

.. Its just a suggestion.. but most dive shops will let you try gear out for the first couple of pool dives when you start classes. That way, you know the gear will fit, and it's not like you really cheated the LDS, because there gear is for the pool anyway, and by taking classes through them... you have given them a good chunk of your $$$...... I just think it helps to try a couple of different brands before you "settle" for something that you can't be totally comfortable in... because if your not comfortable... your dive sucks!:) Hope this might have helped a little... it might be worth asking the dive shop if they have rental gear you could try out... just so you know... :)


Kayla:)

[ZoCrowes255]

Kayla once bubbled...
.. Its just a suggestion.. but most dive shops will let you try gear out for the first couple of pool dives when you start classes. That way, you know the gear will fit, and it's not like you really cheated the LDS, because there gear is for the pool anyway, and by taking classes through them... you have given them a good chunk of your $$$......

Kayla:)

Actually you have "cheated" the dive shop by using their equipment and buying from Leisure Pro. They do not provide it as a public service. The reason they LET you try it is so you can buy it from them.
Scuba classes ARE NOT expensive. Most dive shops take a hit on the classes and make it up in the gear sales. It brings in more traffic that way.

Edited for grammar and redundancy

[MikeFerrara]

If you put this much effort into choosing an instructor you might do ok. Buy a cheap mask if you want but find a good instructor and don't worry about nickles and dimes.

The only way to tell if a mask is going to fit is to try it on. Sometimes you just can't tell for certain until you're in the water. If you lack experience fitting maskes you're at a real disadvantage. If you show up to class with a mask you bought someplace else and it leaks too much to dive in you may need to drop out of the class and go shopping for another mask. OTOH, if the folks teaching you are the ones who sold you the mask ther's a good chance they'll do whatever it takes to get you diving (swap masks or whatever).

[MikeFerrara]

Kayla once bubbled...
.. Its just a suggestion.. but most dive shops will let you try gear out for the first couple of pool dives when you start classes. That way, you know the gear will fit, and it's not like you really cheated the LDS, because there gear is for the pool anyway, and by taking classes through them... you have given them a good chunk of your $$$...... I just think it helps to try a couple of different brands before you "settle" for something that you can't be totally comfortable in... because if your not comfortable... your dive sucks!:) Hope this might have helped a little... it might be worth asking the dive shop if they have rental gear you could try out... just so you know... :)


Kayla:)

Most shops around here require ou to own your own mask and fins. BTW, classes are a loss leader. Their only reason for existing is to sell masks.

[roturner]

barralax once bubbled...
<snip>

So all that said, I have some bassic equipment questions.

Fins: I bassically have a $50 (LP prices) price range.
I'm looking at some Tusa Imprex Open Heels. I'm looking at these because a co-worker who dives occasionally mentioned that the flexible interior part of the fin would be a plus. Is he full of it?



If you can get a set of Mares Avanti Quattro for the same price (open heel of course) then give those a serious looking-at too. It's a similar fin but probably a little better quality for the long run. If you low-ball fins then you'll be slow and you'll eventually want to replace them. If you're calculating that in then ok, if not you've been warned.



Snorkle: Mares Stream Dry Snorkle. Any Comments?


Don't spend money on a snorkle for diving. Get the cheapest p.o.s. you can find for the OW course because after that you'll probably never use it again. Surface swims are generally just as easy and relaxing on your back as they are on your front and the snorkle is uncomfortable and in-the-way when it's hanging from your mask all the time. If you think you might occasionally use a snorkel then I'd look at one that folds up to put in your BCD pocket for the odd time you need it.

If you want to spend money on a snorkle for snorkelling, on the other hand, then that's another thing....



Mask: Scubapro Crystal VU Single Lens Mask with Purge. I'm looking at this mask because it's panoramic, low-volume and has purge: all things we [think we] want. It does happen to be a little cheaper than some comperable masks, but that actually worries me more than it interests me.


Purge is useless and it can become painful if it presses against your nose. Panormaic is good. Tusa make some nice masks (visualator) , so does Cressi (big-eyes & horizon). A wide field of view is good but a mask that gives you good downward visibility is very handy for manipulating your gear.

hope that helps.

R..

[ElectricZombie]

barralax,

You might want to check into a pair of ScubaPro JetFins, you can usually get them for a decent price online. (Especially Ebay, LP has them too) These are great fins.

As for the mask, get something that is low volume and fits well. I think you will have to buy this from an LDS to ensure proper fit.

Get the absolute cheapest snorkel you can find. After you get certified, you most likely will never use it again.

[barralax]

Ok, so yesterday I went to another LDS. I was upfront with the quy from the beginning about the gear. He seemed pretty cool about it; said he completely understood and of course they'd prefer to have my business, but he didn't insult my intelligence either. This shop charges $30 more for the OWC than the other shops around, which makes me feel like they should be more understanding about the gear. All in all they seemed really freindly and professional, I'll probably end up using them for the OWC. I did look at what they had to offer as far as gear goes. Their bassic package was slightly better than some of the others because it included the boots (it was also slightly more $), but the basic fins looked like complete junk. The only problem with this shop, is that even if I didn't need to try and save money on the personal gear, their selction was pretty weak. The next step up in the fins looked okay (but didn't scream this is a great fin), but they only had two different models of masks...

...enter new question: So, now I realize that buying a mask is more complex than simply picking the one with the features you like, but when you all talk about trying on different masks to find one that fits and doesn't leak, are you talking about trying different models or different individual masks of the same model for proper fit. Because if it's not the latter, then I don't see the advantage to dealing with the LDS on the mask if I only have a couple of choices.

Please enlighten me.

[HammerNoMore]

On the equipment choices:

First I would avoid a mask with a purge valve. It's a failure point you don't need and some make it more difficult to equalize.

Second, if you are looking to save money you should also look into package deals. Leisure Pro and Scuba.com both have mask/fins/snorkle package ranging from $50 to $300.

On the LDS issues:

The fact is that the most scuba retailers are IMHO crooks (I know I'm asking for it now). Almost all shops around here participate in price fixing and several charge signficantly above MSRP. Of course you don't know this unless you go find out for yourself what the MSRP is. I have done business with every dive shop in St. Louis and I trust 1 for training and 1 for equipment purchases. Unfortunatly, they are not the same ones :).

If you want to avoid hassling with the LDS's at this stage, I would recomend you talk to your local YMCA. If you have that many dive shops I'm fairly sure some of your Y's will offer scuba lessons. I did my OW with Y-Scuba and it was both the cheapest and most comprehensive class in the area. (The only option that took 6 weeks to complete.)

You'll still most likely be getting your lessons from an LDS, but you'll actually make the arangments through the Y. And hopefully, an LDS that is Y-Scuba affiliated won't have quite so much of a Put Another Dollar In attitude.

James

[MikeFerrara]

If I had it to do over, I would find an independant instructor. The rare lds that has the same interest in teaching would work but they're hard to find. I would make sure thet this instructor was experienced and could give me an overview of what was available in diving. Most students are prepared for warm water resorts and maybe the local training mudhole but never hear anything about the rest of the diving world.

Once I found the instructor I wanted to train with, I would have a long talk with him about equipment as it related to my anticipated diving interest. I had to replace just about everything because the equipment that was sold to me was totally inappropriate for the diving that I ended up interested in.

If I would have paid an instructor good money for good advice/information I could have bought everything at fu;; msrp and still save a bundle.

IMO, the right training will help guid you to the right equipment. You can't do a smart job of picking equipment without knowing something about it's function in the environment you'll be diving. I guess that's why so many shop based on cpst and color. LOL Buying the right stuff the first time saves more money than getting crap at a great price.

[Otter]

James Goddard once bubbled...
The fact is that the most scuba retailers are IMHO crooks (I know I'm asking for it now). Almost all shops around here participate in price fixing and several charge signficantly above MSRP.

James, what activities do LDS perform that make them crooks?

[Laser]

ZoCrowes255 once bubbled...


I work for an LDS and I will tell you to purchase your equipment wherever you like HOWEVER do not use the LDS as a fitting room to purchase form Leisurepro. If you take up the salesmans time for him to help you to find and fit gear it is extremely rude to go buy it online.

I am a big fan of the ClearVU mask. Nice range of vision without being a huge high volume mask. I am not a huge fan of nose purges for new divers. If you have any problems with your ears a nose purge could make equalizing an even bigger pain.

I don't see how you are taking a salespersons time by walking in and quietly trying on masks. No sales help needed. In fact if the shop leaves me alone while I do this, I then ask what their gas prices are and see if this is a place I want to do business. Sometimes I want sales help, and other times I don't.
I also appreciate not being fed the horror story of online buying. I'll be sold on the attitude, knowledge, and then price.

[ZoCrowes255]

Laser once bubbled...


I don't see how you are taking a salespersons time by walking in and quietly trying on masks. No sales help needed. In fact if the shop leaves me alone while I do this, I then ask what their gas prices are and see if this is a place I want to do business. Sometimes I want sales help, and other times I don't.
I also appreciate not being fed the horror story of online buying. I'll be sold on the attitude, knowledge, and then price.

The reason a dive shop pays for the overhead to supply the showroom for the masks to be displayed is to sell them. You walk in and try one so you can buy it on Leisure Pro you are doing them a great disservice. It's very very rude. I spend quite a chunk of change on guitars and I would never do this to a guitar store and I don't expect people to do it to me at the dive shop.

If you want to buy a mask from Leisure Pro that's fine. However, if you want to try it on first either drive to New York and visit them or take a gamble that it will fit. Don't waste my time or handle my merchandise.

[MikeFerrara]

IMO, there nothing wrong with looking at a shop and then deciding not to buy there for some reason. I do believe that it should be done in good faith though. To me that means not taking advantage of free services when you've already made the decision not to buy from me. I doubt any one will stip you from doing it but your face will become known and so will you reputation if you do very much of it. A customer can fail to earn trust and respect the same as the merchant can.

[ZoCrowes255]

MikeFerrara once bubbled...
IMO, there nothing wrong with looking at a shop and then deciding not to buy there for some reason. I do believe that it should be done in good faith though. To me that means not taking advantage of free services when you've already made the decision not to buy from me. I doubt any one will stip you from doing it but your face will become known and so will you reputation if you do very much of it. A customer can fail to earn trust and respect the same as the merchant can.

Mike says it with a lot more panache than I do

[HammerNoMore]

Otter once bubbled...


James, what activities do LDS perform that make them crooks?

Reread my message. I gave the answers in the same paragraph.