Buddy Diving - Can be more Harm than Good

[bluefabian]

Well, I can say that when it comes to something underwater, there is nothing more that I am afraid of than another human being. Much more if he is a buddy. Much, much more if he is an INSTANT buddy.

Sharks you say?

It's hard to form a life-entrusting bond with somebody you just met, especially when you can't gauge his competency underwater. While I am okay with lack of mastery (Well, I am a fairly new diver as well), I really can't accept dangerous behaviours underwater such as going too far away from you/the group, not measuring air supply, going too deep... It's taxing enough that you need to be somebody's babysitter and then be blamed if you did not adhere to the Buddy System, when it's clear enough that you are not responsible for the action of another diver.

I guess the best lesson that I learned from my diving trips was that - you are your own buddy and that you are responsible for your own safety. Not the dive op, not the DM, and especially not your instant buddy. You are alone down there, swimming around with a bunch of humans strapped with tanks.

Talk to your buddy on the boat on what both of you agreed to do when it comes to separation, when one can't equalize, on what depth you'll dive, time of the dive and most importantly - the range of freedom that both of you agreed on down there. Is it okay to wander on a site to look for marine life as long as you are still visible by the other? Do you really need to be really, really close by all the time? Can the other terminate the dive, leaving the other to still follow the group?

I guess, certain things became clearer when experienced in real life.

[Hotpuppy]

I think it's important to go over your expectations. From reading your post it sounds like distance to your buddy is an issue. I'm in the same experience group as you from a number of dives point. I like my buddy to be close, but not on top of me. I dislike "underwater races" where people swim to quickly.

In a group situation you may not be the closest source of assistance, and the reality is that the closest person should render assistance. If you run out of air next to me I'm not going to point to your buddy 50 feet away and tell you to swim for it. I'm going to offer you my octo and we'll figure it out from there... either up we go or take you to your buddy and let the two of you abort on his air. Probably we are going to make a safe ascent.

Visibility and dive conditions play a big role in this. If you are in high viz I see no point in holding hands on the dive. 15 to 20 feet is quite fine, but again it depends. When I first started diving the DM told me not to stay so close and I adjusted. Like you, I was trained to stay within arms length of my buddy.

It's good to be self-reliant whenever possible, I recently took my Rescue Diver class and I got alot out of it. Mainly it teaches you to rescue yourself.... but you do practice things like out of air, panic diver, and more. These help build confidence by showing you that it can be handled.

[String]

I guess the best lesson that I learned from my diving trips was that - you are your own buddy and that you are responsible for your own safety. Not the dive op, not the DM, and especially not your instant buddy. You are alone down there, swimming around with a bunch of humans strapped with tanks.

Thats potentially the most important lesson in diving. Sadly a lot of courses over-emphasise buddy diving creating a dangerous reliance on 3rd parties. They should be hammering the "YOU ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR YOUR OWN SAFETY" message far harder.

[bluefabian]

I guess the Buddy System was created as a way so that there will be somebody who is looking over somebody in case of anything. It might as well be implied as the Group System, but then again it's harder to monitor someone in a large crowd of people. By making it one-to-one, it is assumed/assured that everybody is looked after. But then again, not always.

[Mike Boswell]

I have done a lot of "same ocean" buddy diving where you never really see your buddy, some solo diving, and a lot of buddy diving where you are side by side.

Any form of diving, buddy or solo, works fine. The important thing is, be prepared to do the dive you planned, and follow the plan. A reliable partner is someone who does what they said they were going to do.

[fnfalman]

Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

If it weren't for insta-buddies, I wouldn't have met a bunch of wonderful divers.

[SangP]

Your experiences are one of the reasons why I did tech. The training n skills I've learned really made me a lot more self reliant. Cept for when I'm in unfamiliar territory, I usually won't need a buddy.

However, when you get instant buddies make sure the both of you know what the ground rules are.

SangP

[TSandM]

I've dived with a lot of people I hadn't met before the day we went diving (although admittedly, most of those dives were set up on the internet). I've had two bad experiences, a couple of kind of marginal ones, and the vast majority have been good ones. It's been my observation that the quality of the pre-dive communication is the biggest factor in ensuring that the dive is a good one for everybody involved. If you really spell out how you want things to go, most people are pretty willing to go along with it -- or they'll tell you before you get in the water. I've only had two people take off on me underwater, after having been told that staying with me is one of my non-negotiable things. I wouldn't dive with either of them again, but I'd dive with anybody else I've "insta-buddied" with so far.

[elmer fudd]

I do both buddy and solo diving and I've had buddies help me out more than once underwater. Never anything life threatening, but I have seen plenty of instances of a buddy helping to make sure a mask was seated right, drysuit hoses actually got plugged in, (once at 25' under water), and bullkelp or fishing line got removed from an entangled diver.

I still wouldn't want to rely on my buddy blindly though. I've been separated several times as well and it seems very obvious to me that one reason you might become separated is because you have a problem like an entanglement. So at the moment you need your buddy most, he's not there to help.

There are also dives I'll only do with a buddy. I pretty much limit solo diving to 60' or less, minimal currents and no overhead environments and I always want a redundant air source.

[Codiak]

I too dive with pickup buddies quite often after a couple bad experiences I chose to become alf sufficent. While having a buddy is preferable as a social activity if he chooses to be anti social under water I'm fine with that!

[Roko]

Is it okay to wander on a site to look for marine life as long as you are still visible by the other? Do you really need to be really, really close by all the time? Can the other terminate the dive, leaving the other to still follow the group?

I guess, certain things became clearer when experienced in real life.

How far can you swim underwater with all your gear while holding your breath?
How far when your lungs are empty?
What about when you throw stress into that situation?
How much time will it take you to find where your buddy is if you've both made a turn or two since you last looked at each other?
How would your buddy answer those questions?

Just some food for thought regarding how far away you can be from your buddy. Granted most emergencies might not cut your air off right when you exhale, but you prepare for the worst case scenario.

I'm wary when going in with insta-buddies, and have had assorted experiences - Some have been great, some have been abysmal. I dive with my girlfriend most of the time now, and I always know where she'll be when I look for her and vice versa. We also stay relatively close, but that might be more due to the fact that most of our dives don't have great vis...

[Garrobo]

I try to get a buddy who looks like he has been through the mill and has some old equipment which should have been junked years ago. This type of person has been kicked around long enough to pretty much know what's going on. Then I tell them my age, 70, and all the s*** I have wrong health-wise hoping for a little compassion. Usually, this type really keeps an eye on me, hoping that the old man doesn't do anything which would cause him to kill himself on his meter.

[spectrum]

Well, I can say that when it comes to something underwater, there is nothing more that I am afraid of than another human being. Much more if he is a buddy. Much, much more if he is an INSTANT buddy.

I guess, certain things became clearer when experienced in real life.

A lot has and will be written about insta-buddies" whether while in familiar territory or in a mutually new location.

Suffice it to say that there's not much you can count on except yourself. If that sort of diving is your calling then get Rescue certified ASAP. That class is all about anticipating /reducing risks, rescue of your buddy and self and everything in between. That class is the meat behind what you will read about managing the insta-buddy challenge.

With NAUI AOW is not required, you can sign-up today.

Pete

[ptyx]

Your buddy isn't responsible for your safety. Ever.
You are responsible for your own safety.
Having a buddy makes it more convenient to carry out that task because:

You don't have to carry additional backup equipment in case your own fails - it's on your buddy
Two brains catch more mistakes than one
Some problems are easier to fix if you're two


Buddy expectations are all about how far you accept to be from your backup equipment and how much time you want to spend making sure it's not running away.

[TSandM]

You know, it's so incredibly sad to read posts where people have decided that buddies in general are bad news.

I've been in the water by myself, and I've enjoyed it. But, given the choice, I would ALWAYS choose to dive with one of my buddies, rather than alone. Sharing the fun of the dive (not to mention having two sets of eyes looking for critters!) is a big part of the joy of being down there, and of course, of talking about it afterwards. And I enjoy just looking over and seeing someone's bright eyes, and knowing they're having as much fun as I am. Even beyond the whole safety aspect of things (and my buddies are definitely assets), having a buddy improves my dive.

[elmer fudd]

You know, it's so incredibly sad to read posts where people have decided that buddies in general are bad news.

I've been in the water by myself, and I've enjoyed it. But, given the choice, I would ALWAYS choose to dive with one of my buddies, rather than alone. Sharing the fun of the dive (not to mention having two sets of eyes looking for critters!) is a big part of the joy of being down there, and of course, of talking about it afterwards. And I enjoy just looking over and seeing someone's bright eyes, and knowing they're having as much fun as I am. Even beyond the whole safety aspect of things (and my buddies are definitely assets), having a buddy improves my dive.

I know what you're saying, but there are also times where it's liberating not to have a buddy. When you're with a buddy you are constantly looking out for them and limiting your actions so that you remain nearby. While that's all well and good, it's also nice sometimes to be able to dive freely without having to worry about whether you lost your buddy when you swam off after that crab or to be able to swim off into a different area without signaling your buddy and attempting sign language.

IMO, there are times and places for both. For easy shallow dives while hunting crabs or fish, I prefer solo diving. I also prefer to practice my basic skills solo, (not CESA's or anything hazardous, just things like back kicks where my buddy might not want to hang around for 10 minutes watching me look foolish underwater).

[NWGratefulDiver]

A thread like this comes up about every couple of weeks, usually initiated by someone who has just enough dives to start to see the disconnect between classes and the real world ... and who has done most of their dives paired up with someone they don't know very well. And while some of the frustration is understandable, some of the conclusions are a bit disconcerting. But since we each have to draw our own conclusions, here's a few of mine ...

First off, while it's nice to want to be "self-sufficient" ... most people don't really understand what that means. It does not mean arming yourself with a pony bottle in case you run out of air ... or so that you don't have to rely on a buddy. Self-sufficiency begins with a thorough, and honest, self-review of how you approach a dive. What are your goals? Why are those goals important? How have you prepared for them? How can you best accomplish them with minimal personal risk? How familiar are you with the diving conditions? Have you considered all the potential risks, and what you would do to avoid or deal with them? How reliable is your gear? Do you even know the history or current maintenance status of your gear? Do you practice your self-rescue skills regularly? Do you know how far you can swim in full scuba gear on a breath-hold? Do you know your limits for a CESA? When was the last time you practiced one? How much experience do you have dealing with unexpected problems underwater? CAN YOU MAINTAIN A CALM DEMEANOR WHILE WORKING THROUGH A STRESSFUL SITUATION? People are incredibly good at thinking themselves better equipped for self-sufficiency than they truly are ... especially folks who have just enough dives under their weightbelt to start to feel comfortable with what they're doing ... and haven't yet realized how much about diving they don't know yet.

Next ... self-sufficiency is NOT a replacement for good buddy skills. Forget about the skills of your buddy-du-jour for a moment ... let's talk about what YOU can do.

Most of the complaints I read on ScubaBoard about the horrors of an insta-buddy could have been avoided with better communication before the dive ... and if you and your buddy aren't communicating adequately, perhaps it's not your buddy's fault. How much time and effort do you put into a pre-dive plan? How much time and effort do you put into talking about it with your buddy, and making sure your buddy HEARD what you think you told him (or her)? Good buddy skills start with good communication ... talk about the dive profile, share expectations with each other ... including how you're going to keep track of each other. Talk about diving styles (I always let an unfamiliar buddy know that I like to swim slow, take my time, and look around a lot ... if you're into speeding about, I'm not a good choice for you). Discuss a separation plan ... what will you do in the event that you manage to lose each other? The only assumption you should be making is that if you haven't talked about it, you don't know what to expect from your dive buddy. Being a dive buddy is all about predictable behavior ... and unless you're diving with someone you're familiar with, the only way to be clear on what to expect is to talk about it. If anything seems unclear, makes you uncomfortable, or sounds like the two of you are incompatible ... DON'T get in the water together until you either resolve it or decide to find a different buddy. Almost always, the reason for these insta-buddy horror stories boils down to a lack of communication, and an assumption that the other person has the same goals and expectations you do ... only to find out underwater that it was a bad assumption. Develop good communication skills and those problems usually resolve themselves ... most people WANT to be a good buddy.

Finally, in the water, what kind of buddy are you? Do you pay attention to your buddy, or are you swimming around assuming that they'll be following you? Do you position yourself so that you can see each other at all times? Do you communicate during the dive? Do you assume "roles" so that each of you gets an opportunity to enjoy the sights and achieve the goals of the dive ... whether it's exploring a reef, taking pictures, or poking your head into the hatch of a wreck? Can you divide your attention between the objects you're going down there to see and the person you're going down there to see them with? Are you really down there to SHARE the dive? Or are you buddied up with this person because somebody said you have to? Buddy skills depend on a sharing attitude, a modicum of self-discipline, and a reasonable level of situational awareness ... the SAME situational awareness, by the way, that you're going to have to develop if you are interested in becoming "self-sufficient". And developing that level of situational awareness takes some conscious effort ... and some dives ... it isn't something you will learn by reading about it.

Buddy diving isn't at all about making someone else responsible for your safety ... that would be called "dependent diving" and is something we should all avoid. Buddy diving is about sharing the responsibilities, the decision making, and the redundancy that reduce the risks associated with any kind of failure during the dive. It's about helping each other catch mistakes that may happen because we're all human ... and all humans make mistakes from time to time. It's about catching and fixing the easy things ... BEFORE they become hard things that might cause you to struggle and stress out. How many times has your buddy brought up something that made you think "oh yeah" ... because you hadn't thought about it? On a good buddy team, it happens a lot ... and there's no reason why two people who have never dived together can't make a GOOD buddy team. All it takes is the right attitude and level of communication. Notice I didn't say "skill" ... because I've dived with some new divers who've made EXCELLENT dive buddies. What it really takes is the desire to BE a good dive buddy.

And for the person who mentioned that bad dive buddies are the reason they got into tech ... I don't get that bit. Tech diving relies more heavily on good buddy skills than regular recreational diving. The most important tenets of tech diving revolve around developing excellent buddy skills, awareness, and communication. And ... odd as it may sound ... the same mindset that goes into the development of those skills makes it much easier for someone to ... when they decide the time is right ... get into doing solo dives ... because the mental process that goes into developing good buddy skills also teaches you the proper things to think about when it's time for you to assume the burden of risk analysis and remediation for going solo.

Bottom line ... "self-sufficiency" is not a catch-all for getting out of developing good buddy skills. You still need the same foundation ... situational awareness, planning, preparation, and self-discipline. The only difference is in how you apply those foundational skills, and in how well you can share them with another person. And if you find yourself having buddy issues, don't just assume that it's because the other person is clueless ... perhaps it's something as simple as putting more effort into addressing the expectations you have of a buddy and making sure that your communication was clearly received.

Most folks want to have a fun, stress-free dive as much as you do ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

[Hypno-toad]

I am BRAND NEW to diving and while I already have *a couple* of diver friends, if it weren't for insta-buddies, I'd have no one with whom to dive. I don't know many people yet, and even those divers I do know above water, I don't know that well below water. Just from my sheer newness, I am an insta-buddy to even my diver friends.

I hate being the newbie-burden on more experienced divers, but I joined a couple dive clubs for that very reason. Those dives are supposed to be dives for all levels of diver, led my a DM, so us whipper-snappers can learn some skills. I just make sure I pay attention and know the the person most looking after me, is me.

[stakanak]

I gotta tell you Bob, I honestly believe you must be the best dive buddy in the world. I have learned more from your posts than any instructor has ever taught me, including awareness and basic skills which we sometimes must flounder through till we find the right "equations." Thanks man!
Good Diving

[TSandM]

Bob, that's one of the better posts from one of the best posters I know.

[cdolphin]

Bob, this is one of the best things I've seen written on the board:



Originally posted by NWGratefulDiver:
And if you find yourself having buddy issues, don't just assume that it's because the other person is clueless ... perhaps it's something as simple as putting more effort into addressing the expectations you have of a buddy and making sure that your communication was clearly received.


True for most of life.

[ColinB]

Wow, Bob, that was probably the best post I've read on this board. Lots of good stuff to think about and work on. I'm still pretty new at diving, and have only had a couple insta-buddy dives so far, and definitely need to work on the pre-dive communication, and getting comfortable talking through the dive with a stranger, but I think that post will help me work on it.

thanks,
Colin

[flots am]

I hate being the newbie-burden on more experienced divers, but I joined a couple dive clubs for that very reason. Those dives are supposed to be dives for all levels of diver, led my a DM, so us whipper-snappers can learn some skills. I just make sure I pay attention and know the the person most looking after me, is me.

New divers are only a burden for people who can't take care of themselves.

A good diver is reasonably certain that he can take care of himself, won't need a buddy and can probably help a buddy who needs it, provided that the buddy doesn't do anything too bizarre.

The world is full of people who would be thrilled to dive with you. Seeing the Underwater World through brand new eyes is a huge treat. Along those lines, anybody who won't dive with you "because you're new" is actually unsure of their own skills and you don't want them as a buddy anyway.

Flots

[fnfalman]

Buddy experiences are what YOU make of it.

Everybody complain about getting a "bad" buddy. How about take a look at yourselves? Are you so perfect that the other buddy would have nothing to complain about?

In my mere 180-dives, I've had three bad buddies. I asked them to change some of their behaviors. They didn't want to, so they went their ways and I went my way. No big deal.

[SangP]

And for the person who mentioned that bad dive buddies are the reason they got into tech ... I don't get that bit. Tech diving relies more heavily on good buddy skills than regular recreational diving. The most important tenets of tech diving revolve around developing excellent buddy skills, awareness, and communication. And ... odd as it may sound ... the same mindset that goes into the development of those skills makes it much easier for someone to ... when they decide the time is right ... get into doing solo dives ... because the mental process that goes into developing good buddy skills also teaches you the proper things to think about when it's time for you to assume the burden of risk analysis and remediation for going solo.

Great post again :D! I completely agree that tech emphasizes buddy skills however, the thing about doing tech for me is learning how to remain calm under difficult conditions, dealing with equipment failures & recognizing my own limit.

I've also learn to have better communication & buddy skills with the skill sets to be much more self sufficient.

SangP

[knowone]

"Who, me responsible?"
In the mid seventies I read a magazine article that stringently professed buddy diving to the extent of hand holding.
It also suggested, that post dive whilst walking down muscle beach buddies should stop holding hands. Alfred E. Neuman. "What, me worry?"
I now understand how a cop is too heavy.

[bluefabian]

Wow, thanks for all the input.

[DCBC]

Even when some people have been taught to dive properly, it doesn't mean that they will adopt this into practice. Some people don't see that the safety rules are something that applies to them, which is unfortunate. Although I believe that there is a depth on air that a properly trained buddy can be more of a danger than an asset, I don't believe that the buddy system is outdated and I teach my students at every level to adopt it.

When evaluating the buddy system, you have to quantify the training that your buddy has received. In other words, if the buddy hasn't been trained in basic rescue skills, how much will s/he really be able to help me if I black-out underwater, for example? So when we evaluate a buddy, we have to quantify their level of skill carefully. Buddies are not created equally.

The current training situation has required divers to evaluate how they want to dive. More and more divers seem to be coming to the conclusion that although they would prefer to dive with a competent buddy, this isn't always something that's guaranteed in today's world. They choose to become independent and as such, carry redundant systems. Although this presents an increase in safety, it's still not as safe as diving a good dive plan with a well trained buddy and ensuring that you possess the right training and level of fitness to safely accomplish the dive imo.

I usually dive with full redundancy of gas, gas delivery & buoyancy and with a buddy within touching distance. I've also on occasion chosen to dive solo under specific conditions.

So much of diving depends upon personal judgment. How deep, how long, with what equipment, in what wave conditions, in what visibility, in what current, with who? We each accept the risks we take. Hopefully our judgment is reliable. Either way, it's our decision.

[JohnB47]

Just from my sheer newness, I am an insta-buddy to even my diver friends.


No, you're not. You don't have to be a master diver to be a good buddy. I can tell if someone is a good buddy within about 10-15 minutes into our first dive together. And on the second dive, he is no longer an insta-buddy.

Here are some of the characteristics of a good buddy:
He doesn't swim faster than I do.
If the visibility is low, he is right beside me all the time.
When I don't see him and I look around to see where he is, I find him hovering above me or beside me.
When I am out of his range of vision, he looks around to see where I am.
He frequently shows me his pressure gauge so that I know how much air he has left, and I can judge how fast he is using it.

Note that none of this has anything to do with his experience as a diver. Of course, an experienced diver would like to dive with divers who have developed excellent diving skills. But I would rather dive with a good buddy with limited experience than a master diver who swims so fast that I can't keep up with him.

[elmer fudd]

Although I believe that there is a depth on air that a properly trained buddy can be more of a danger than an asset, I don't believe that the buddy system is outdated and I teach my students at every level to adopt it.

Care to elaborate some more? Myself, I've found that the deeper I go the more valuable my buddies seem. Of course I've never gone much deeper than 130' either. I was once part of a dive that could have gone very badly when a diver froze up at 120' and just stopped responding. With a diver on each side of him holding his upper arms we escorted him into shallower water and everything was fine. Even in shallow water though I've had several situations where a buddy was very handy.

I like to dive solo at times, but I've never really encountered a situation where a good buddy would be more of a liability than an asset with the one exception of spearing fish.

[F106A]

Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
If it weren't for insta-buddies, I wouldn't have met a bunch of wonderful divers.

I'm not in it to meet a bunch of wonderful divers.

[DCBC]

Care to elaborate some more? Myself, I've found that the deeper I go the more valuable my buddies seem. Of course I've never gone much deeper than 130' either. I was once part of a dive that could have gone very badly when a diver froze up at 120' and just stopped responding. With a diver on each side of him holding his upper arms we escorted him into shallower water and everything was fine. Even in shallow water though I've had several situations where a buddy was very handy.

I like to dive solo at times, but I've never really encountered a situation where a good buddy would be more of a liability than an asset with the one exception of spearing fish.

I didn't want to elaborate in the Basic SCUBA area, but perhaps you just have not been deep enough. Unless I know the buddy personally or am running a deep air class, I will not dive below 130' with them on air. I've experienced two people who were narced and ran out of air at 180' while on vacation. It was a 210' wreck dive that they never quite made (two PADI Instructors from New York that should have never been on the dive in the first-place). We were not buddies, but I felt required to come to their assistance. It could have cost me my life. I will not place myself in that situation again. Hopefully that's enough elaboration... :) Before you (or anyone one else) start to lecture me, this was in in the late 70's. Trimix was not available and it was common for very experienced divers to dive deep (including wrecks like the Andrea Doria and others) on air.

[elmer fudd]

Fair enough, but it sounds like what you are saying is that only known and carefully selected buddies are assets beyond a certain depth. That I can easily understand. Solo-diving beyond 130' on the other hand sounds a bit nuts to me, although I know some people do it.