Dir, utd, wtf?

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RikRaeder

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I have a couple of questions for the DIRies out there. I looked into the GUE website a couple years back, and lately have become aware of UTD. I checked out that website too, and it seemed to me a carbon copy of the GUE site (with a few newer certs, perhaps).

Questions;
1) What is the difference, if any, between DIR and UTD? It seems like the same thing to the uninitiated. If, as I suspect, UTD is a spinoff from GUE's DIR, what was the perceived need for a new agency?

2) Again, prefacing with the fact that I have perused, glanced, and looked over the relevant websites and not done any heavy homework on them;
My understanding of the DIR method (and perhaps the UTD as well, if they're indeed the same) is that it is an all or nothing affair. You either dive with the gear, configuration, and methods or you do not. If you do, and have the appropriate certification, then you are "DIR." If you don't have the GUE cert or divert one bit from the DIR program, then you are not. If this is, in fact, the case, how could it be that DIR divers can dive in a team with non-DIR divers? Wouldn't this be forbidden by the strictures of the DIR system since there is no uniformity of training, gear, and technique?

I've read some of the threads regarding DIR diving (until the devolve into **ssing contests) and checked out some online material as well. The above are what I have taken from my, admittedly, shallow skimming of the topic. I ask these questions because a) I recently heard about UTD, checked the site, and thought it looked the same; and b) I have several times had DIR "practioners" offer to dive with me (I'm not DIR) and so was wondering how that could be. Can you be DIR today and not-DIR tomorrow? I'm hoping someone can set me straight on these issues. Thanks!
 
DIR is a diving philosophy, not an agency, a course nor a certification. UTD and GUE are training agencies. Divers trained in the DIR philosophy can choose to dive in accordance to the philosophy or not. Yes, you can do one dive being DIR, come up do a surface interval and change your gear configuration and not be DIR for the 2nd dive. I believe that it has become increasingly apparent that DIR "practitioners" are not all just blind mindless followers of a philosophy. They are now perceived as being more pragmatic than they were initially known for. They are perfectly capable of safely executing dives that do not require all the rigors of strict adherence to the DIR philosophy.
 
There are no DIR divers, only DIR dives - I didn't say it first -some guy shooting bunnies did. (I think) But I find it pretty true.

If you have a sincere interest, I suggest you try to find someone to dive with that can provide a material supplement to what you read on the interwebs.

Good luck.

Hunter
 
Then you're saying that UTD is also DIR diving?
So how about the differences in agencies?
 
I figured that someone who dives DIR might be able to explain on the interweb. I understand that the agencies have high standards, emphasis on technique mastery, etc. I'm looking for an explanation (I can learn by reading).
 
Andrew Georgitsis, who is the founding father of UTD, was GUE's director of training for several years. It is my belief that Andrew had a different vision of how the training should be accomplished, and how it should be broken up. But he always concurred that the system is a good one. When he left GUE, he attempted a couple of things to be able to teach diving the way he wanted to, and when they didn't work, he started his own agency.

GUE and UTD teach many things that are the same. The gear configuration is largely the same -- the differences are in details. The standard gases are largely the same, again with small differences. The procedures are largely the same, with some very small changes.

What's different would be a little difficult to understand, if you haven't trained with both agencies, as I have (and I have taken instruction from Andrew). UTD heavily emphasizes on-line learning and on-line discussions and resources. They break the curriculum up into smaller blocks. In practice, the emphasis is less on measured elegance and more on agile adaptation. Instructors have more leeway to create stress situations for students.

Both agencies have high standards for instructors, and they are both small enough to be able to accomplish effective quality control.

As far as your question about DIR divers "straying" by diving with non-DIR people . . . it's not an issue. As I believe JeffG has said, there are no DIR divers. There ARE DIR dives. The closer a dive comes to the edge of my confidence envelope, the more I want to do that dive with people who are trained like me and equipped like me. But for ordinary spins around our local dive sites, I dive with anybody who wants to dive with me. It's more FUN to dive with my DIR buddies, a lot of the time, but I'm happy to dive with others. I love diving with new divers or people who are curious about the system I espouse, because I honestly believe it is a great way to dive. But I'll dive with people who have no interest at all, like the CCR fellow who dove with me and Peter at the beginning of this month. Nice guy, very pleasant buddy. The dive didn't require anything more.

Contrary to what some folks believe, most of us don't walk around with our noses in the air :)
 
I may be wrong about some of the following story because I mostly got it from gossip and the internets. So if anybody knows any better, please, by all means, correct me. Here it goes: The UTD founder, Andrew Georgitsis (AG), used to be Training Director for GUE. There was a conflict(s) between AG and some of the high ranking officers of GUE. It seems that AG was fired. After AG was no longer affiliated with GUE, he went on to start UTD. It is only logical to expect the curricula to be similar because AG was closely involved in organizing both of those.

For a first hand look at the conflict(s) go here. Just as a reference, George Irvine and Jarrod Jablonski (JJ) are GUE high ranking officers.
 
The thing that spawned question 2, is that I'll soon be heading back to the San Francisco Bay Area, and have been trying to find buddies to expand on my Tech experience. Some friendly DIR types said they'd be happy to dive with me, but I was wondering how that could be possible as I'm not Trimix certified and I imagine we'd be in the range where DIR calls for Trimix. I didn't understand how they could dive with a non-DIR diver with a different configuration and probably different methods (and certainly not the training).
 
It is very normal here that DIR philosophy followers ranging from Fundamentals to Tech 2 level dive with non DIR divers. Although those dives are non-demanding.It does help when all the divers know the same protocol as it simplifies everything.

I'm yet to see a DIR follower who has his nose up....

I try to dive a hog configuration most of the time but I equally enjoy double hose single tank no BC diving with my friend who dives double hoses. Although those dives are mostly non demanding shore dives in 40 ft range
 
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