Suggestions on BCDs for instructor training?

[tvh13]

I've been looking at all of the BCDs avaliable and am feeling overwhelmed. Any advice appreciated.

I will be traveling to Thailand for PADI dive master and then instructor training in a couple of weeks and I am looking to purchase a BCD here in the states before I go. I plan to use this gear a lot and will be relocating to Asia for continued diving. I find that I can get much better deals on equipment here in the states than in Thailand and so want to make purchase before I leave.

BCD Max price is $400.

Qualities that I am looking for are durability (will be using this a lot), simplicity (I don't need lots of bells and whistles), comfort.

I have noticed the

edge freedom - good entry level price seems to be high quality without paying for a huge advertising budget.

scubapro classic plus - high quality time tested design. I can buy for $399


Fins

Scubapro jet fins

people seem to like the springs for the heals comments?


Regulator

sherwood oasis

console

Not sure. I just want a simple metric tank and depth

[flaucher]

Just picked up the Edge Stealth 2 great back inflate very easy to get trimmed out. Great quality

[tvh13]

Just picked up the Edge Stealth 2 great back inflate very easy to get trimmed out. Great quality

Cool how is the quality compare to scubapro? Would I notice a difference?

[Scott]

BC: Back plate with a basic harness and a wing (Oxycheq 18#) will get you close to $400
Light, compact, no bells or whistles but can be expanded.

Fins: Why not just take what you are using right now and put a set a spring straps on them? Use them until they break and then buy a new set of fins.
Spring straps are the only way to go..IMO

Reg: Nothing wrong with Sherwood. Solid, dependable, parts are readily available.

Console: Mares Puck, Sunnto Zoop or Gekko ..maybe $300

[tvh13]

BC: Back plate with a basic harness and a wing (Oxycheq 18#) will get you close to $400
Light, compact, no bells or whistles but can be expanded.

Fins: Why not just take what you are using right now and put a set a spring straps on them? Use them until they break and then buy a new set of fins.
Spring straps are the only way to go..IMO

Reg: Nothing wrong with Sherwood. Solid, dependable, parts are readily available.

Console: Mares Puck, Sunnto Zoop or Gekko ..maybe $300


I was looking into a Back Plate but my instructor practically insists on me getting a jacket type of BC. I am not in a place to argue the point as I don't have the experience to really know what I want. I hope to get a good BC that works and with more experience I will figure out what I want to use long term. All most all of the DM I've seen in Thailand use jacket type BCs.

[tvh13]

Fins: Why not just take what you are using right now and put a set a spring straps on them? Use them until they break and then buy a new set of fins.
Spring straps are the only way to go..IMO



I've been using full foot snorkle fins so far. I want to purchase an open heel fin. The scubapro seemed like it has been around for a good long time.

[flaucher]

The stealth is a back inflate - so that is the biggest difference - if you use correct weight you are fine up to and perfect below the surface - build quality is as good as anyones.

[Crush]

I was looking into a Back Plate but my instructor practically insists on me getting a jacket type of BC. I am not in a place to argue the point as I don't have the experience to really know what I want. I hope to get a good BC that works and with more experience I will figure out what I want to use long term. All most all of the DM I've seen in Thailand use jacket type BCs.

+1 to everything that Scott said, especially spring straps. I can't understand your instructor's insistence on a jacket unless that is all his shop sells, and he wants you to look like his inventory. However, if you want to get a jacket, seriously consider getting a travel BC. Fewer pockets = less bulky, rear-inflate = better trim in the water, no integrated weights = FAR less bulky, modular design = parts can be replaced. I dive a Zeagle Scout - it fits all my criteria, above (there are integrated weight pockets, but they collapse flat).

[kaerius]

Jacket style BCD is easier for teaching, the simpler the better, as it's most likely what your students will be training in. Other than that, I don't really have much to say on that.

Fins: might be a better idea to get the OMS slipstream, same style fins as the jets, but lighter, they'll be better for your warmwater trim, and easier to travel with.

A mares reg, or an apeks one might be easier to get serviced there.

I'd recommend wrist-mounted computer over console.

And a tangent: where in thailand are you going, and who are you getting trained by? I did mine with Crystal Dive Resort, koh tao, personally.

[tregrrr]

jacket BCD is the only reasonable option, your instructor trainer is correct. There will be nay-sayers and differing opinions, but when it comes to skills demonstrations, trying to show a student the correct way to use the equipment issued to them is most effectively done with equipment that is somewhat similar in function AND appearance to theirs. If you are looking for simple and sturdy, consider looking at the rental kit they are actually using. That kit is subjected to harsh and careless use by students and guests on a daily basis. If your kit is cared for better, imagine how long it might last. I have worked with seaquest, DiveBuddy, and Scubapro and all of the BCD's constructed with an eye towards rental fleet market will show a tendency to survive.

I personally spent a lot on mine and am willing to pay more often for the extra comfortable poodle jacket. I use a mares dragon (both here in cold water / drysuit, and in tropical waters.) when you fully inflate the dragon, it pops you so far up out of the water that your hands are completely clear... great if you like to use hand gestures while you speak.

For fins, I have used several (both splits and solids) and none worked better for giving the traction needed to catch wayward guests and attention deficient students than the Mares open heel with 3 or 4 "channels". I love the stiffer feel, and when you are in water 3+ times per day, your legs WILL get strong enough to make use of the extra traction. Split fins are like riding a bicycle in the easiest gear: if you are willing to "peddle" like crazy.... That has been my experience and is MY OPINION

good luck on your course, and if I may offer a bit of advice: DIVE. Dive lots. Dive some more. Get as much real experience as you can before you go out and start teaching. You will be the better teacher when you have a feel for how and why whatever happens as it does, and how to deal with it, when you can call upon personal experience from having seen some of it personally, than you ever could from reading about it. You will be a more confident teacher with more to offer your students when you start teaching.

[Crush]

Jacket style BCD is easier for teaching, the simpler the better, as it's most likely what your students will be training in. Other than that, I don't really have much to say on that.

The jacket style BCD is easier to fit someone into - guess the right size (S, M, L, etc.), put it on, tighten three or four cinch points, and you are done. If you want to fit a class of six divers in a hurry, nothing beats a jacket BP - either back inflate, or one which inflates all around the body. BP/w requires more fiddling.

There is nothing about a jacket BCD that makes it easier to teach in, nor is there anything inherent in the jacket that makes it easier to learn in. In fact, I believe that a rear-inflate system (jacket or BP/w) is far easier to dive than one which inflates all around the diver.

[tkdgodess]

scubapro litehawk is my pool bcd. It is a rear inflate bcd, super easy to adjust and looks like it will stay black for quite some time. It's easy to demo all skills in, and it dials in horizontal/neutral like it's intuitive.

I would take this one for travel too. I use a softpack/wing for actual diving.
Have fun!

[Crush]

jacket BCD is the only reasonable option, your instructor trainer is correct. There will be nay-sayers and differing opinions, but when it comes to skills demonstrations, trying to show a student the correct way to use the equipment issued to them is most effectively done with equipment that is somewhat similar in function AND appearance to theirs.

I have my doubts about these statements. All systems have power inflators, oral inflation hoses, and air bladders - that which is important can be demonstrated, and it all looks the same.

I would give your students more credit than to assume that they can't learn if you are in different gear. If this were true, I would not have passed my cavern course in a "poodle jacket" with single tank and a wetsuit since my instructor had a BP/w with doubles and a drysuit.

[tregrrr]

....All systems have power inflators, oral inflation hoses, and air bladders - that which is important can be demonstrated, and it all looks the same. the tropical recreational resort diving new Open Water diver renting gear will get a poodle jacket. Said jacket will not have crotch straps or a visible plate. What will be visible is the already truncated time-frame for the delivery of OW course material. Resort teaching, specifically in the tropical waters, sucks. I would love to have been allowed to spend more time (such as is invested here in colder climates) delving into more in-depth and well-rounded teaching including more pertinent examples such as 'other' gear alternatives, but the fact of the matter remains that there is a required teaching syllabus that most resort courses are taught under and which must be adhered to in order to keep within the STRICT time constraints imposed by the average tropical dive-shop / hamburger-grinder.

We are speaking to an incumbent instructor. If, upon reaching teaching status, said instructor finds himself in an atypical tropical teaching situation where the time considerations are less lax than the norm, or possibly once said instructor gains enough experience to be able to successfully integrate this extra variable, possibly then he might reconsider the gear use and choose to relegate the now 2-3 year old poodle jacket to pool duty??
I would give your students more credit than to assume that they can't learn if you are in different gear. If this were true, I would not have passed my cavern course in a "poodle jacket" with single tank and a wetsuit since my instructor had a BP/w with doubles and a drysuit. credit is fine, but it still is one more thing to put into an already tight timeline... why bother??

also, cavern is not OW in the tropics, or your cavern course would have been possible to teach in 2 days time... just sayin:D

[AZFlyingDiver]

Well said...
Also look for gear you can get parts and service for easily in the area you'll be at...


jacket BCD is the only reasonable option, your instructor trainer is correct. There will be nay-sayers and differing opinions, but when it comes to skills demonstrations, trying to show a student the correct way to use the equipment issued to them is most effectively done with equipment that is somewhat similar in function AND appearance to theirs. If you are looking for simple and sturdy, consider looking at the rental kit they are actually using. That kit is subjected to harsh and careless use by students and guests on a daily basis. If your kit is cared for better, imagine how long it might last. I have worked with seaquest, DiveBuddy, and Scubapro and all of the BCD's constructed with an eye towards rental fleet market will show a tendency to survive.

I personally spent a lot on mine and am willing to pay more often for the extra comfortable poodle jacket. I use a mares dragon (both here in cold water / drysuit, and in tropical waters.) when you fully inflate the dragon, it pops you so far up out of the water that your hands are completely clear... great if you like to use hand gestures while you speak.

For fins, I have used several (both splits and solids) and none worked better for giving the traction needed to catch wayward guests and attention deficient students than the Mares open heel with 3 or 4 "channels". I love the stiffer feel, and when you are in water 3+ times per day, your legs WILL get strong enough to make use of the extra traction. Split fins are like riding a bicycle in the easiest gear: if you are willing to "peddle" like crazy.... That has been my experience and is MY OPINION

good luck on your course, and if I may offer a bit of advice: DIVE. Dive lots. Dive some more. Get as much real experience as you can before you go out and start teaching. You will be the better teacher when you have a feel for how and why whatever happens as it does, and how to deal with it, when you can call upon personal experience from having seen some of it personally, than you ever could from reading about it. You will be a more confident teacher with more to offer your students when you start teaching.

[DCBC]

To the OP, any equipment that you like, can afford, fits you properly and is in good repair and is functional, will meet your needs as a new diver.

[DCBC]

When I teach basic programs, I attempt to use the same equipment as my students for a few reasons:

1. Diving is a new experience to most students. Some may be hesitant, or even be a bit fearful of the experience. Seeing their instructor in similar gear boosts their confidence in the equipment they are using.

2. When I demonstrate a skill, it's done with similar equipment as the student is wearing.

3. When I owned my own dive shop I wanted students to be happy with their gear and wanted them to eventually purchase similar equipment. This is why I used higher-end equipment in my training programs.

[RU4SKUBA]

In consideration of the fact that you're going to be an instructor it's probably wise you have one standard BCD for demonstration purposes, in case you don't work with a DM. DCBC stated the benefits above quite well.

I'd also like to add that most the students will read into most everything you say, do or don't do and say, and wear; however, I do agree the wing/bp setup is a better rig.

Why don't you pick up a used BCD that fits, overhaul it at your LDS, and get yourself a pair of spring-heel straps? You could save tons of cash to put toward a nice wing/bp system for your personal diving and still meet the needs of your classroom.

[halemanō]

What are the water temps where you will be an Instructor? What gear will the students be using? What gear does the shop(s) you will be associated with carry/use?

If the water is warmer than Southern California's, vest style BC's and stock heel strap or full foot Mares fins are far and away the most common Instructor gear from what I see, hear and read.

Your reg set should be a brand that is easily serviced at your location, so is Sherwood supported in Phuket?

[Jim Lapenta]

I teach in a zeagle express tech and my students are in Tusa jackets for the most part. I have yet to see where they are "confused" by the difference in styles. I explain what I am using and what they are using and then demo skills. I see no "confusion" when I bring my BPW in for a session or two with a long hose set-up. I don't know if all my students would quailfy for MENSA (probably not), but I do give them the benefit of the doubt that they are not morons. A simple explanation and demo clears up any "confusion".

[Quero]

FWIW, I'm currently working in Thailand and can support some of the advice offered above.

For the BCD, as long as you can demonstrate all skills all the way through the Rescue Diver course, you can get whatever style you like. Back-inflate, "poodle" jacket, whatever, as long as it has a quick release and the skill attributes can be demonstrated and copied by student divers, that's all that's really important. I once had a DMT in a bp/w/long hose system and it was a royal pain for skills demos. The equipment replacement and removal was so different that students couldn't just copy it, and because it was Hogarthian (with one long piece of webbing holding everything together and on the diver) getting it off the "victim" for Rescue demos was extremely difficult. Air sharing drills are way different with a long hose. I'm in favor of instructors wearing similar gear to what their students are using regardless of what course is being taught... when I took my tech classes, I would have been amazed if my instructor tried to conduct a class using a rebreather when the rest of us were in bp/w and twins.

Ease of getting service is critical. For example, I recently had a cracked corrugated hose on my low-pressure inflator at the end of one dive day, and all I had to do was walk into the shop and wait five minutes to get it repaired. Brands that are easy to get service for here are Scuba Pro, Mares, Aqualung, OMS.

For similar repair/part/technician reasons, I wouldn't recommend Sherwood regs for Thailand. They are hard to get service for. There are some shops/techs, but the parts sometimes have to be ordered and that can take a while. Same holds for Oceanic and several other brands popular in the US but not widely distributed elsewhere.

For gauges, follow the same guidelines for getting repairs and spare parts. I recently decided to have a pair of console-mounted computers re-booted into a wrist-mount-style. It took months to get the relevant parts for these Oceanic Veos from Bangkok (I assume they had to import them in). I also had a visiting diver need an emergency repair for an Aeris computer, but we couldn't get it done at all. For gauges, computers, etc., the easiest to service here are Suunto, Mares, Aqualung, Uwatec.

Hope that helps.

[Arizona]

Great advice form Quero! I would also recommend checking what the dive shop you will training with has to offer. They may offer a good package deal. Perhaps you can use some rental items and see what everyone else is using and then buy? Try now, buy later. It could save you a lot of money! Other interns may want to sell used equipment as well. Just finding out why they are selling may help you make a more informed decision.

I personally prefer Scuba Pro for BCD. You may be able to find a Knighthawk used as another option on SB or e-Bay. Most importantly get a compass and computer. You should be able to make do with just about any rental BCD regardless.

I recently splurged for a Halcyon Infinity. Very nice indeed! For confined I prefer to use my Knighthawk. OW training/fun diving BP/W. Rescue course I would still use my BP/W if I have a certified assistant with BCD. If not then the Knighthawk. This ideally, allows students to see both in action.

[tregrrr]

I teach in a zeagle express tech and my students are in Tusa jackets for the most part. I have yet to see where they are "confused" by the difference in styles. I explain what I am using and what they are using and then demo skills. I see no "confusion" when I bring my BPW in for a session or two with a long hose set-up. I don't know if all my students would quailfy for MENSA (probably not), but I do give them the benefit of the doubt that they are not morons. A simple explanation and demo clears up any "confusion".

Jim, and all other BPW / tech proponents, please stop and think for a moment. We all know full well that the newly minted instructor coming straight out of a Thai meat factory is not going to be teaching the SEI way; They are going into the PADI resort machine, where 3 instructional day courses are exceptionally long, NOT abbreviated.

Its not that you can't do it from 'tech' gear, but the fact remains that the Course Director has indicated jacket style as requirement for the IDC program the OP is enrolled in. Do you propose that a student countermand or disobey his instructor before possibly even arriving in the same timezone?? I can only wonder how that would bode for one of your courses if you specifically indicated that your incumbent students acquire and familiarize themselves with a specific (say SEI) course manual before arriving, but after reading online, a student ascertained that another (say BSAC) manual was more commonly used and decided to familiarize himself with that instead. Much of the same material is covered, the same end accomplished, but it directly disobeys you and interrupts the flow of your class.

I prefer even my Mensa grade students follow simple instructions. If they decide to seek sage advise or second opinions elsewhere on discretionary aspects of purchases stipulated as required for a pro level course, that indicates good foresight. When they start heeding the advice of others on NON discretionary aspects of that gear selection, we all, as instructors, get a little put out.

I was looking into a Back Plate but my instructor practically insists on me getting a jacket type of BC. I am not in a place to argue the point as I don't have the experience to really know what I want. I hope to get a good BC that works and with more experience I will figure out what I want to use long term. All most all of the DM I've seen in Thailand use jacket type BCs.


As it stands, his CD has indicated poodle jacket; I stand by my recommendations.

....just thinkin out loud... :)

[Walter]

BCD Max price is $400.

Qualities that I am looking for are durability (will be using this a lot), simplicity (I don't need lots of bells and whistles), comfort.

I have noticed the

edge freedom - good entry level price seems to be high quality without paying for a huge advertising budget.

scubapro classic plus - high quality time tested design. I can buy for $399

The Scubapro Classic Sport is simpler, more streamlined and actually costs less than the Classic Plus.


Fins

Scubapro jet fins

people seem to like the springs for the heals comments?

I really don't see the advantage to spring straps, but do highly recommend Jets.


Regulator

sherwood oasis

The Oasis doesn't deliver lots of air. I once rescued an OOA diver at 100 feet with one, I had to time my inhalations with the OOA diver's exhalations because the Sherwood wouldn't give enough air for both of us to breathe at the same time at 100 feet. I bought a Scubapro Mark X right after that.


console

Not sure. I just want a simple metric tank and depth

I really don't think it matters.

[NWGratefulDiver]

Much as I love my BP/W, given the venue is Thailand I gotta agree with those who say get a jacket or standard back-inflate BCD. When in Rome, etc ... for all the reasons those advising you have stated above.

Fins ... if you're OK with the weight of Jets, then I'm gonna recommend you try the Hollis F1's ... they come with spring straps, so no extra purchase is needed. They fit and feel better than either Jets or Slipstreams, and perform at least as well as either. Like the Jets, they're heavy ... other than that, I see only advantages.

Regulator ... you have to go with what you can get parts and service for over there ... but I agree with those who suggest a high-quality, easy breather ... given the feedback on the Oasis, you don't want a reg that might cause a student you're sharing air with to stress because they feel like it's not delivering adequately. If price is a concern, look at some of the higher-end TUSA regs ... I had one a few years back and was suitably impressed with its performance. Zeagle also makes some really nice performing regs in your price range.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)