Tobermory dive permit prices going up.

[D M I]

Hi

I just heard from the park officials that next year your park permit will cost you $20 up from $15 and the following year it will once agiain go up to $25. Your federal goverment is giving it to you up the yang yang once more.

D M I

[Rooster1]

D M I once bubbled...
Hi

I just heard from the park officials that next year your park permit will cost you $20 up from $15 and the following year it will once agiain go up to $25. Your federal goverment is giving it to you up the yang yang once more.

D M I

Doesn't surprise me. Government here has been sticking it to us for years and it's getting worse. The thing I never figured out about Toby is how come you can swim at phatom 5 and snorkel the wrecks but if you put a tank on your back you have to pay?:rolleyes:

[Warren_L]

Because if you're a scuba diver, you've probably spent lots of $$ already, so what's another $15? :(

[JJ1]

what exactly is there justification for the $15+ fee on diving?

btw - I think it's time for a big@$$ revoloution in canada.........

[divedude]

JJ1 once bubbled...
what exactly is there justification for the $15+ fee on diving?

btw - I think it's time for a big@$$ revolution in canada.........
I think the Fee is to go toward moorings and buoys but........ it's goverment run. We seem to do alright here in Kingston with Moorings and we have no $15 fee added on to your dive, and we have no goverment "Help"

[D M I]

Hello

I think the reason is that the amount of divers visiting the park in the last two years has dropped considerably as well as Canadian and American families camping. The entire economy of Tobermory is doing bad.

D M I

[Groundhog246]

It's not completely Government run, many volunteers involved. Among other things, the tag fee paid for the platform, changehouse/washrooms at the tugs and pays for maintenance for same. The staff also co-ordinate the schedules for the charters and glass bottom boats so they don't interfere with each other (or would you enjoy having a tour boat passing overhead while you're on a shallow wreck?). Then there's enforcement who try to monitor the condition of the wrecks and keep people from vandalising them and taking "souveniers" and keep boaters out of the diving areas.

In recent times, federal and provincial parks get very little of our tax dollars and are expected to pay they're own way. Some do it with user fees. Some more "wild" areas by limited harvesting of resources, such as logging of older trees. Why should the general public pay the cost for services that only divers use?

Or perhaps they should forget the park idea and cease to monitor at all?

[D M I]

Hi

Yes! that's all true, but its also an idiotic time to start raising prices when your attendance is down. I spoke to Lawrence Began? former owner of Diver Down who owns two home in Tobermory and a charter business, he mention that all dive charter businesses up there are dead. Time to face the fact diving has hit it slack tide in Tobermory.

D M I'

[DIZZY]

They have put the price up for the last 4 or 5 years anyway, and now for the next two. Charter prices have also gone up and yet food quality has gone down while prices still rise.
Toby had better watch out. They are putting themselves out of bussiness.
I know I'm thinking of crossing Toby off the list !

[snuggle]

food quality?mind telling me what raising he fee to dive has anything to do with restaurants and their food?if your upset about the new fee thats fine but dont drag someone else into this by saying that their foods no good..if your not happy then bring your own..i still think its worth the 25 to dive there since its only once a year right or am i wrong?

[D M I]

Hello


For myself I never liked Tobermory for diving or that miserable drive up to it, but there are many who do or just have not yet been introduced to the 1000 islands or Kingston area were the wrecks are large, historical and in tact and the water is warm much warmer than Tobermory. I can also guarantee you that the food and lodging is much better as well. Lets face it, the economy of Tobermory is in the clinker many people are moving out and even big tub lodge has fallen into receivership.

D M I

[DeepScuba]

Right on DMI !!!!!!


Those that know me, know how much I rant and rave about Canada's ****tiet dive destination.


It's a shame, because I really do love the odd wreck up there too, but for all the greif I get, every time I go, I find it ain't near worth the trip.

I'd do Brockville or Kingston any day over toby.

Their numbers are dwindling every year.......well **** I wonder why???

Maybe it's the stone-aged crappy dive shops?? with their 2500 PSI (Alum or steel (they've never heard of 10% ratings)) fills?? Or is the equally annoying folks that run the shops, divers den being only slightly better than that ****-heads, G&S's hole in the wall.

The way the guy treats divers is unreal, and I wish him the fastest of business closures. I own a business as well, so I know how it works, and this guy has no clue. The ONLY thing that has kept him going this long is that diver USED TO go there, and with but 2 shop to deal with, an idiot could have run it.........as it is, an idiot IS running it. Sooner or later the dance will end, and it looks as if it is sooner.

I wish toby the best of good-byes, my money is being spent in Brockville or Kingston when I dive in Ontario.

Well said DMI.

$60.oo to "dive" (snorkel) the Sweepstakes!!! Gimme a friggin break, idiots...........besides who does the Sweepstakes or the Tugs anyways????

[Rooster1]

D M I once bubbled...
Hello


For myself I never liked Tobermory for diving or that miserable drive up to it, but there are many who do or just have not yet been introduced to the 1000 islands or Kingston area were the wrecks are large, historical and in tact and the water is warm much warmer than Tobermory. I can also guarantee you that the food and lodging is much better as well. Lets face it, the economy of Tobermory is in the clinker many people are moving out and even big tub lodge has fallen into receivership.

D M I

I have to agree I hate the drive to Toby. I also have to agree that it is foolish to raise prices when business is down and besides Toby has too many 2 X 4 wrecks and is too cold compared to Kingston and Brockville.

I also don't believe money is being spent to monitor the wrecks to prevent vandalism:confused: too many divers out there for that and besides what can you do those wrecks any way? They are already smashed silly from years of weather.

*Interesting note* I see divers are not paying for there tag to dive Phatom 5, I also see no scuba police out there checking

[snuggle]

hey deep scuba you seem pretty quick to name calling i see and you say you own a business?i wonder how many people that have dealt with your business are saying the same thing about you?funny how fast someone puts down a shop when they dont get what they want..seems to be happening more and more these days where people seem to want something for nothing and rooster.. what about the charters that you have been on with the club..you didnt have any problems going on them and now here you are complaining about toby..i have never went on a charter up there but have dived in toby and the water is so clear and yes it is cold but i guess thats what you get when you have to drive a fair distance from here to get any decent vis..i guess there will always be someone who will complain about one thing or another..cant please everyone..

[DeepScuba]

Hey snuggle.......

I wasn't "Quick" in the name calling..........I gave the idiot a few years of patronage first, all the while watching his dismal attempts at running a GOOD business. He's reaping exactly as he sewed, as he should.

How many are saying the same thing about me???

Evidently very very few, if any. I work in a very competitive business, and as such can least afford to be peeing off every other customer :-0

Am I ever off my game??? Sure I am. Would it show after multiple visits by a customer?? Evidently not.

Do I have problem with charters with my club?? Sure, almost always....including the toby ones :-)

Want something for nothing??? Think again, I'd like SOMETHING for something though.

NO complaint about Kingston or Brockville diving........maybe it IS TOBY that can't please ANYBODY!!!

I've been there too many times not to understand whats going on.

How about you?

[SubMariner]

Many people don't think about how buoys or moorings or those great docks or change rooms that make diving easier and safer. Not to mention helping to defray some of the costs of the Toby Chamber. Where did they think the money comes from for all these things?

My BIL used to work for Parks Canada. He's one of the people that helped put in moorings and make the Sweepstakes a more "diver friendly" wreck. They put in a HUGE amount of work on that project, not to mention other ongoing things like trying to see how to stop the zebra mussels.

While I agree that the Sweepstakes is NOT the best wreck in Toby, it most certainly has been extensively conserved and modified to fufill an important role as a decent place for training divers on low vis diving as well as wreck penetration.

Rooster1 I am VERY disappointed in you!

I also don't believe money is being spent to monitor the wrecks to prevent vandalism too many divers out there for that and besides what can you do those wrecks any way? They are already smashed silly from years of weather

So that would make it "ok" to vandalize them? With that attitude there won't be any wrecks worth diving in the future.

Lets see.. a whole $20 to dive Toby for the ENTIRE season. Geez. We'll need to run a telethon for you poor unfortunates that can't afford that measly sum. :out:

~SubMariner~

[DeepScuba]

C'mon get a grip man!!

Sure that's what he said.......go and vandalize the wrecks.....yup that's exaclty what he said, I heard him say it, yup, uhh huh yes he did.......

C'mon. In your wildest of drunken stupors, did anyone think that's what he meant?

I thought not, so we are now down to the lowest common denominator. Slamming a poster for what you KNOW he didn't mean.

Stupid, stupid stupid.

Oh yeah, take your $20.oo and add $40.oo more to dive (snorkel) that 2X4 junk pile.

What a waste of a post. Get REAL. Post off of what you KNOW someone means, and not waste a post for the sake of writing.

Soon they will need a telethon anyways.

We CAN afford it, the reason we don't is that it's a waste. We've all long ago found the REAL Canadian Dive Capital........

And it ain't Toby!

[pufferfish]

It would be nice to know exactly what that park fee goes towards. I don't think any diver can really whine about $25 bucks for a season of diving though. Yes the relative increase does seem out of line but I wonder if staff salaries and benefits must come out of these park revenues and as attendance falls rather than cut back on services they raise park fees. I agree this may just be another small irritation for folks to dive elsewhere along with the perpetual Toby parking problem.

One charter owner told me it is the park divers who put the moorages out for the wrecks in the spring and this then becomes an official commercial dive operation which likely pushes costs up. The local charter owners have offered to do this sort of pre dive season chore on a volunteer basis like they do in Kingston, but they were turned down as this was someone's job in the park. Someone who is salaried with benefits I imagine.

Before you guys predict the demise of Toby how about asking around the province and see what business has been like in Kingston and Brockville. I spoke with one Kingston shop owner early in the season and he said he had never seen it so dead. Even world famous Niagara Falls has seen about a twenty percent drop in month over month business from last year.

Despite Toby's problems I still enjoy the diving up there. Cold yes, more isolated yes, and no nightlife whatsoever but that is why I go. It is just a great place to get away from the urban scene and 'chill' out. Dive, eat, sleep, and dive.

Brockville is warm but some folks don't like the current.

Kingston has great wrecks, good parking, and good nightlife but two of the three shops haven't had their air analyzed in three years,...real backwater place if one is looking for reliable fills :boom:

[DeepScuba]

FOr me, the $25.oo or whatever it is, is not the real issue. It's the other incrementive PITA's (Pain in the...)

That being said, the park fees should at LEAST give you a decent public access to even 1 shore dive site. The anchor has ZERO parking unless you encroach on the church or the Inn's parking. The tug and the Sweepstakes are a no-go for access as well. After that it gets real deplorable at the "Cove"??? (Lots of white rocks on a beach??) What a joke, a fee for the sake of charging a fee, Gumint' waste, again.

If you're gonna pay for something, then let's see it. How can more than 2 cars park anywhere even remotely close to a shore dive?

So then you're "stuck" doing a charter..OK good enough. You pay good money for a 2400 PSI fill...ALU or Steel..they eveidently can't read a DOT-CTC manual which states an acceptable fill PSI. So what do I have to pay for the "extra" air?????

They are knuckle dragging, cavedwellers when it come to REAL scuba diving. They haven't a clue. It may as well be a cold Cuba, who are eons behind the times as well.

the park fee is but one small issue. If it doesn't take that to take care of Kingston or Brockville, then it's not required for Toby, except as a gummint hand-out.

Reliable fill??? Hmmmm didn't a Toby fill station explode 2 years ago?? killing an employee? By the way, the owner KNEW he had a problem in the works and played the odds.........his employee lost.

Toby ain't near what it is cracked up to be, and the word is getting out.

5 hrs to Toby.......5hrs to Kingston.........hmmm hard descision........HEY BIG JIM!!!! See ya soon!!!!!

Greatest dive charter in Kingston!!!!!

Best advice for fills..........bring your own, from your own shop!! AND if Nitrox.......analyze. I've seen Limestone be 4%+ off!!!!

[D M I]

Its hot in here thats for sure.

I'm guessing that all you people know each other as you seem to be doing a good job screaming back and forth. As a technical diver I can tell you first of all that I have never ever received any bad air from any dive shop in the Kingston or the Brockville area. These regions are were the majority of all the technical hard nose divers play and train and if some ones air was polluted it would be quickly brought the dive shop operators attention by the mass. I also have to say that Kingston and Brockville offer current and none current diving the choice is simply yours, and there is also several wrecks just off shore for the person who does not want to participate in cattle boat ride. I know there is no slow down in Brockville this year, Helen Cooper and Mike Kendal and many more charter operators have been booked solid all season long thanks to the massive french diving communities out of Ottawa and Montreal. I think the problem with Toby is just isolation the younger people just don't want to go to an area were the majority of the population is over 50 and the night life sucks, but for some older guys with there ply wood butt wifes it seems fine, enjoy your stay.

[Rooster1]

SubMariner once bubbled...
Many people don't think about how buoys or moorings or those great docks or change rooms that make diving easier and safer. Not to mention helping to defray some of the costs of the Toby Chamber. Where did they think the money comes from for all these things?

My BIL used to work for Parks Canada. He's one of the people that helped put in moorings and make the Sweepstakes a more "diver friendly" wreck. They put in a HUGE amount of work on that project, not to mention other ongoing things like trying to see how to stop the zebra mussels.

While I agree that the Sweepstakes is NOT the best wreck in Toby, it most certainly has been extensively conserved and modified to fufill an important role as a decent place for training divers on low vis diving as well as wreck penetration.

Rooster1 I am VERY disappointed in you!


So that would make it "ok" to vandalize them? With that attitude there won't be any wrecks worth diving in the future.

Lets see.. a whole $20 to dive Toby for the ENTIRE season. Geez. We'll need to run a telethon for you poor unfortunates that can't afford that measly sum. :out:

~SubMariner~

Sorry you read my post wrong. Could be my fault for being lazy and not using proper grammar. What you misunderstood or I poorly wrote was that I meant is that there are too many of us divers out on those wrecks for someone to actually try and vandalize them or take artifacts while the rest of us are watching.

[Rooster1]

snuggle once bubbled...
and rooster.. what about the charters that you have been on with the club..you didnt have any problems going on them and now here you are complaining about toby..i have never went on a charter up there but have dived in toby and the water is so clear and yes it is cold but i guess thats what you get when you have to drive a fair distance from here to get any decent vis..i guess there will always be someone who will complain about one thing or another..cant please everyone..


Easy there slim! Take a deep breath and lay off the Koolaid:D
Going on charters is how you see most of the wrecks and therefore you can honestly say what is a good wreck and what is a bad wreck and you can fairly compare the diving to other locations. Yes Tobermory has real nice clear water and it is nice to dive but it is also true that the wrecks are badly beaten! Now it's nice that you like Toby I do to, but I call it as I see em (or dive em);) and really I am not complaining I am just agreeing with other divers who feel that increasing the charge to dive Toby when those wrecks are second and third class to Brockville is foolish.

[diverbrian]

I came back from a trip to Toby in the second weekend of July.

Twenty-five bucks Canadian for a year's permit is not a bad deal. It is also great to be able to "buy" the Deep Obsession for 150 dollars US to cover all my charter costs fo the weekend (that was 150 US per person for the group obviously). For two dives in a more remote location in Alpena (which tied up Capt. Randy's boat all day) it was $125.00 US for the day and the boat isn't near as nice. Captain Gary was fantastic. I have already booked my reservations for next year.

I don't go diving for the nightlife. After four dives per day in cold water, I don't have enough energy left for nightlife. We were leaving the dock at 8:00-8:30 in the morning and not getting back until 4:00 or 5:00 pm.

I would say that the actual overall diving was better in Mackinaw, but I hated the location. It was too expensive and "touristy". And Mackinaw doesn't have the Arabia :) . I am not big into "tourist areas" or currents if you can't tell. Toby was perfect for what I wanted. The wrecks *are* beat up. If you want older wrecks that aren't beat up, you are looking at deeper wrecks than they have in Toby (with the exception of the Forest City and the Arabia). Not everybody is qualified to dive those kinds of wrecks. Heck, I won't go all the way down on the stern of the Forest City. I draw a pretty solid line at the 130ish feet mark myself until I learn Tri-Mix. The weather wasn't good, so we did dive on the Sweepstakes two days in a row for our fourth dive of the day. The Bermuda in Munising is similar in my mind and is not in near the condition.

People should be thankful for what they have. Tobermory, though flawed, is one of the best overall diving destinations that I have been to. I include the very limited experience in warm salt locations when I say this as well. It is a cozy little cove type area with many charms. I have no experience with G&S, but Diver's Den did all right by me.

The bottom line is that no matter where you choose to dive, enjoy your diving and dive safely.

[D M I]

Can you hear that, its me playng my harp for you.

Give us a break with the good diver stories. I say again. TOBY is cold water diving, the wrecks are nothing more than lumber yards now and the entire place sucks, the only reason it has some summer time business now is beacuse of the ferrie to M island. The few charters left up there are running on a slim line now and if it doesn't pick up which it won't, they will be gone as well in the not so distant future just as many dive shops are gone now out of business. Diving is dead in the north so stop beating your heads against the wall on this topic there are no winners unless your doing business in Brockville now.

D M I

[cobaltbabe]

D M I once bubbled...

Diving is dead in the north.

D M I

I don't think diving is dead in the north. There is a pile of divers who are very active here. I know for a fact there these divers are actively setting up charters and shore dives every weekend. I have never been to Tody and from the sounds of it I never will be going.

[D M I]

I have to disagree with you sweet pee, I've been diving for actively for 26 years now and if I haven't done it no one has. I remember when a dive shop could easily clear $500.000 income in one year. now your lucky if one can bring in $40.000 after bills. Banks even rate dive shop businesses as one of the worst investments possible with high risk. You'd be better off selling ars wipe on the corner street. I know just about every one who is in the diving business or who has given up the diving business. There may be a few of your associates up north who dive and get together for SCUBA outings but the numbers are low compared to yesteryears .

D M I

[Rooster1]

cobaltbabe once bubbled...


I don't think diving is dead in the north. There is a pile of divers who are very active here. I know for a fact there these divers are actively setting up charters and shore dives every weekend. I have never been to Tody and from the sounds of it I never will be going.

Don't let the rants scare you from Toby! Yes there are better diving locations then Toby but Toby is still great diving for clearity, depth and broken up or not those are still wrecks:D

[wetman]

You know, i've been to toby 2 or 3 times in the past couple of years and I think it is worth it for maybe 1 trip a year. Its a change of pace from down this way. And with water temps down here this year until recently, i dont think you'd know the difference. I believe that the rumors of great visibility stem from before zebra muscles though when comparing to lake ontario - in the trips i've had up there i've never been more impressed with that vis than down here - others i dive with have said the vis has been great there, just not when i visit apparently.

If you do do some of the better wrecks up there, its worth a weekend for sure. And the tugs area is very easy to get into and makes for a nice relaxing night dive.

steve

[cobaltbabe]

I had to look back to see if you were talking to me. No one has ever called me Sweet Pea. I guess I am just lucky then. My LDS is doing pretty good, or at least seems to be. Always classes going on and piles of tanks to be filled. Also seems to be selling stock quite well.

Your right I dive with very good group of divers who try to get together as much as possible. Most on here know who I dive with so I won't bore you with names. Also most of my friends are divers now. Yes I am immersed in diving. It is a real shame to hear that it is going down hill from what it was. With all the classes I thought the business would be booming but then most are fair weather divers and don't want to dive in the mighty north. :) Bring on that thermacline.

[SubMariner]

Rooster1

Sorry you read my post wrong. Could be my fault for being lazy and not using proper grammar. What you misunderstood or I poorly wrote was that I meant is that there are too many of us divers out on those wrecks for someone to actually try and vandalize them or take artifacts while the rest of us are watching.

Thanks for the clarification. Pax :thumb:

DeepScuba
Rooster1 obviously saw that his post was open to mis-interpretation. You, on the other hand, decide it's much better to flame someone than to see that there are two sides to every issue.


the park fee is but one small issue. If it doesn't take that to take care of Kingston or Brockville, then it's not required for Toby, except as a gummint hand-out.

Both Kingston & Brockville are open Lake sites that require little, if any, maintenance/attention to operate. OTOH, as a Marine Park, Fathom Five (Toby) does. BIG DIFFERENCE.

Also, as I mentioned before, there is a Chamber @ Toby that requires funds to operate.

You don't like Toby? Fine. Don't go there. Seems simple enough to me.

~SubMariner~

[snuggle]

hey rooster i didnt mean any disrespect and im glad that you clarified what you said and hey DMI. you said that if you havent done it no one has well there is onething that many have done that you havent and thats know when to shut up and show some class..sounds to me like you know a lot about nothing and very good on telling everyone how good his knowledge is about everything..and deep scuba you remind me of someone who used to be on the board sometime ago..dont go telling people to get a grip especially submariner.. hes been around alot longer then you have...so show some respect ok. maybe you and dmi should get together and dive..seems you have alot in common...and oh dmi that crack about plywood butt wifes was uncalled for...someday when your up in age youll be thankfull to have someone by your side..

[DeepScuba]

I believe a "get a grip" is in order when it's obvious what a guy means when he posts, but someone intentional trolls him for a confrontation. It's stupid and counter productive.

If you darn well know what he means, then stick with it. The last thing we need are more politicians or journalists around here.....

I'm sure DMI and I will meet someday........but not in Toby!!! Tehe

[Warren_L]

I've been to Toby a couple times this year, and will likely continue to go in the future. Yes, they are raising the price, and I cannot see the reason for that myself, but in the end I end up paying more in $#*& parking tickets anyway. Those darned parking enforcement people are all over you in an instant.....

[DeepScuba]

hahaha

The parking is in my budget every time I go up there.....this is what I mean about the crappy top side arrangements.......maybe for more money than can make it even more IN-accesible to divers?

Certainly not diver friendly...and I expect WAY more out of a place that would have the balls enough to call themselves the dive capital of Canada...what a joke.

More in a bit.......

[D M I]

Hay! snuggle you don't know a dam thing and I'm still learning after 26 years of active commercial and technical diving, Yes! we don't even fall into the same diving category. Who calls himself snuggle anyways.

D M I

[DeepScuba]

Well I can't say anything towards the handle "snuggles" Since for one it's just a Nick, plus also my own handle hardly reflects my true nature. From a REAL Tech divers prospective (I'm still a budding one, although in reality, as far as qualifications go, I am one) I would not be considered much of a "deep scuba" diver,....yet. It's just a name I quickly found that wasn't used yet.

Now to finish off my posting here on this thread on a good note. As to Divers Den, the ones I used my last time up there. I love thier boat, Deep Obssesion. The Captain (Can't remember his name for the life of me) and his Wife were EXCELLENT hosts, willing to engage in conversation and the like. Very nice folk.

It's for those nice folk I feel for when I see the Toby Dive industry failing, and not the idiots who threaten to leave you underwater if you take to long in your dive!!!!

Like they really meant it, like they really would........gimme a break A-holes.

Oooopps that last one wasn't positive, but it's the one I think of most when I think of G&S!

It's his call, it's his business, it was also a very bad call, and very poor customer relations. Evidently he doesn't care.

[SubMariner]

with tongue firmly planted in cheek

Love your attitude guys. Nothing like flaming or belittling people to show your true level of professionalism and maturity.

Sounds like you two legends in your own minds should start a mutual admiration society so you can snipe and brag between yourselves.

Better yet, head on over to recscuba where you can BS to your heart's content. And leave the rest of us adults to talk scuba in peace.

~SubMariner~

[D M I]

Yo! Submariner

I Can't for the love of money remember you being part of this discussion.

D M I

[cobaltbabe]

Everyone has their own opinion no matter what their experience level. I don't know why it always has to turn into a peeing match. I like to hear that some have more experience, heck maybe I can learn something. For those of us who don't have the experience and aren't afraid to admit it, any information is great. I personnally will wead through it and take from it what I want. Maybe for an inexperienced diver, Tody would be good, its water after all. I don't know, but I will find out. As far as the personnal attacks, come on guys, we are all here for one reason and one reason only, DIVING. We have a common interest and obviously are very passionate about it. You can jump on me if you want to for what I have said, I don't mind, and someday when I meet you and dive with you, I'm not going to hold anything said against you, they are just word. I really hope to dive with each one of you in the future if you will allow me too. Safe diving boys.

[snuggle]

you know dmi you really should start your own site or something ..thisway you can like submariner said bs all you want to your hearts content and hey im sure you and deep ocean will be very CLOSE buddies no doubt..you both seem to have the same demeaner as well as big mouths..yeah your right dmi.your still learning alright and one thing you have downpat is how to be an $ss and hey you dont need us to tell you that ..you and deep ocean are doing just fine on your own..i wonder how loud you would talk to other divers here to their faces who have been around a long time and definitly know what they are doing but yet dont brag about it..they have class unlike you who thinks he knows it all..you remind me of a diver who thought he knew it all and took in a class as a guest and had a bcd with a lift of 28 pounds and yet the instructor of the class found him at the bottom of the pool bcd fully inflated with 40 pounds of led around his waist..yep he sure knew it all .. and hey im not in the same class as you and i hope the hell i never am. and by the way cobaltbabe has a name ok.. lay off her..she has more class then youll ever dream of having..

[cobaltbabe]

Thank you for standing up for me, but honestly I don't mind what people call me. Not many call me by my name anyway. The people I dive with call me babe for the most part, so as you see it isn't an issue with me at all, but thank you. Marie

[Lurch]

The problem they are going to run into if they keep uping the fee is it will make people think twice about going. If you only get there once a year do you really want to pay 25 bucks for the season, they should consider weekend type passes for 5 - 10 bucks. Then I think you would get more divers likely to go. Lets face it though the wrecks up there aren't that great. There's alot of places to go that are nicer diving. Toby is still good for training weekends but at 25 bucks a pop that may start to decline as well.

[DeepScuba]

Actually, sub-sauce, I only flame those who require flaming after proving such for many many years..........

You all seem to have forgotten one thing about DMI.

He's right about Toby!!!

And Uhmm, it ain't the $25.oo park fee that's the real problem with Toby.

I guess you guys are used to very poor service.

It's your dollar, spend it as you see fit.

P.S. That's deep SCUBA, not deep ocean, but I know who you meant.

And who's bragging about thier scuba prowess?? Certainly not me.

And yes, I certainly have the "being an A-hole" down pat, guilty as charged............still doesn't change the fact I'm right though.

Carry on, men.

See ya in Brockville..............

Tehehe

[cobaltbabe]

I have been called alot of things but never sub sauce. Is that the hot and spicy sauce or the creamy sauce? LOL :confused:

[diverbrian]

DeepScuba once bubbled...

Now to finish off my posting here on this thread on a good note. As to Divers Den, the ones I used my last time up there. I love thier boat, Deep Obssesion. The Captain (Can't remember his name for the life of me) and his Wife were EXCELLENT hosts, willing to engage in conversation and the like. Very nice folk.

It's for those nice folk I feel for when I see the Toby Dive industry failing, and not the idiots who threaten to leave you underwater if you take to long in your dive!!!!



Trying to stay out of the other contest, I would just like to offer some info. I was on the Bruce Isles and the Deep O that weekend. Our Captain was Gary Coulter and he was out of this world. He had to have dinner put on hold to help us with tanks and such Saturday night because we pulled in late and wanted to beat everybody out to the Arabia Sunday morning by leaving earlier than them. And his first mate (also nicknamed Gilligan, but his real name was Nick) was one of a kind!

You probably had Larry. He is the normal weekend Captain of the Deep O. Our group had such a good time with Gary the year before that he was requested for this year's trip. We also paid for and requested the Deep Obsession as that has got to be one of the best dive boats that any of us have been on. Larry Graham in good business sense gave up his boat to Gary for the weekend to keep our group happy. (Gary normally runs the Deep O during the week and the Bruce Isles on the weekends). I am sure that Larry does well, too. It is just that we wanted to reward the charter captain who worked so hard for us.

Pretty much all the people that we ran into off that weekend were just excellent hosts. This is why I will believe the "demise of Tobermory" when I see it. I plan to be there every year on the second weekend of July from now on. You may be right about some of the flaws, but it is one of the most peaceful vacations that I have taken in a long time. Some people find that isolation nice. And I never risked a parking ticket. They do have lots up the hill, you know. It is a bit of a hike, but so is Higgins Lake to the area where you can actually dive over here (In full gear, I might add.). Have fun diving where ever you choose to dive!

And Marie, Submariner, and Snuggles, we all can tell that more than a couple people, not just participating in this thread could use a lesson in respect and manners. :( There is one of those every week or so. Unfortunately, we get one or two corrected and more arrive to take their place. You will just have to do the best you can to correct that situation here :), Cheers!

[cobaltbabe]

I'm sorry, I thought that comment was for me, because I said people can and have called me several things, but have been told other wise. I will stay out of this from now on. Safe diving to all of you.

[DeepScuba]

I'm a creamy sauce type of sub-sauce guy......

So what was with the PM and then deletion???

Was it a juicy letter?????

The guy I went with, with Deep O has a wife that tags along, I'm assuming regularly.

Good people.

[cobaltbabe]

I was just asking if the name was for me but was then told that it wasn't. Don't worry, everything in the PM is out here as well. I am a good one at either being too serious or putting my foot in my mouth or just plain P***ing people off. Anyway, on that note I am going to fade into the background, enjoy the conversation. Safe diving all. :)

[Rooster1]

For those of you here in the Ontario forum, Submariner is a not a dude, she is a classy dudette;)

[snuggle]

yeah deep you are right about the a$$hole part..and like the guy said earlier theres always a few that come along to brag about how good they are at this or that and then when they leave som eone always comes to take their place and one more thing..show some respect to the lady submariner..that is if you know how..which i doubt..so easy to hide behind a computer eh..face to face though im sure is a diff story..

[Warren_L]

Most people that flame tend to be that way in general. It's unfortunate that some people cannot just respect other's differences in opinion, and often times a thread can just degenerate into a flaming contest.

[Rooster1]

Ladys and Gents, I hope? lets sit back relax a little and give the flaming a rest. Have a Heineken and mellow out, if you can't find one then domestic will do:)

[DeepScuba]

Actually I'd like Snugs to show me where I'm wrong about Toby, AND where I profess my extreme expertism on diving :-)

I guess he couldn't poke a hole in my own personal business prowess, (Evidently he's the only one that's allowed to make a snap judgemnet on things he knows nothig about, AND get a pass while doing it) so he's down to the lowest common denominator....sling poop at someone who know the score from personal experience.

Maybe snug, that someone that took anothers place might be YOU???

Dare I say such a thing?

Who died and made you the king thread cop?

Admit Toby blows, and carry on.

Sound easy enough???

[Warren_L]

Maybe I haven't had as much experience as many of you in diving different locales, but I for one enjoyed my Toby experiences. I'm sure that there are a lot of spectacular dive sites that I've not been to, but that's no reason to bash a place like Toby. Afterall, it's probably not that bad of a place to go to given the number of divers it attracts every year. For any place that would help further the public's interest in scuba can't be a bad thing for the industry in general. And I hope I don't get flamed for supporting Toby as this is not an attack on those who disagree. Everyone is allowed their opinion and shouldn't have to be afraid to express it for fear of being flamed. IMHO.

[snuggle]

the only thing that blows is you and your hot air...please dont try to insult me because it just doesnt work..people like you are a dime a dozen and when someone like you comes out of some crack in the wall and starts to shoot off at the mouth and disrepect someone like submariner that could probably no doubt swim circles around you.. well yeppers im going to say something..so please go and find that little corner of your world and do whatever it is that you do and leave us to talk in peace here..its a great board until people like you arrive and start slamming..why not just go to some recdiving board and let everyone there know of your opinions..im sure that you can find someone there to build you up and agree with everything you have to say..there are people on this board that wont challenge you and thats ok no problem at all i dont blame them..and dont talk to me about experience in toby because i have dived there and liked it very well..the diveshop was great to us and had no problems...if you dont like toby thats fine just stop slamming the operators there and move on..we dont want to hear it. plain and simple.. dont bother to reply although i know you will because i wont waste my time with you again..must be awfully lonely in that pathetic world of yours..see ya and hey do have a nice day

[snuggle]

oh and hey wlo93 ...good post..im with ya on this one..

[Butch103]

.....that the increase in tag-fee is becoming annnoying, as is the parking in Toby, (or lack of).

The conditions in Toby I find are less desirable than Brockville/Kingston area.

This said, why did this thread denigrate to a p****** match?

Lets leave the name calling and childish behaviour for a different board ( your pick).

Constructive opinions are much better and far more educational than the slamming.

[DeepScuba]

tehehehe

I guess we see who's getting a tad warm, verbally abusive and all "flamy" now? BUt It's OK if you do it :-)

tehehehe

have a nice day.......and look in the mirror once in a while, Snugs.....

tehehehe

You're funny to listen to.

But DMI is STILL correct...........

As to no-one wanting to hear how we feel about Toby and their dive shops...Hmmmmmm I'm sure they do.

What good is a forum if it only posts warm fuzzy posts about people when that is simply not the case. I've been there too many times not to know how these shop perform on a daily basis.

If you don't agree, I really don't care. Post it, I don't care. I know better anyways, so why would I care if you say different??? The people want to know, and if posting a negative comment about Toby is wrong, then this may as well be Rodales magazine!!!!

You like them, I don't, so lighten up crybaby!

You're laughable, really!

I post a comment about them, you start crying at me stating I'm a know-it-all and that I'm abusing you because I don't agree with you!

What a baby!

Lets talk about your choice of Reg's too......I'm sure I could provoke a cry towel moment from them too..........if you wish me to.

You started it Snuggle-puss. My comment was soley Toby related, YOU made it personal.

Your move.

[Lurch]

Well Said Butch:cool:

[D M I]

YOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! Dudes

I started this discussion simply on the basis of my own, yes my own observations about Tobermory and my business experiences with dive shops and the hole dam industry in the last 10 years up there and through out Canada. Yes! I think all of you can at least agree that diving is in a downward thrust all across the north America, sales and travels are way down. Nothing last for ever and neither will the excitement or diving business's in Tobermory, and Like a historical part of a city eventually new ideas and business move in and make changes that some people like or dislike. I strongly believe that Tobermory has lost the nostalgia of the new diving community. Remember folks gone are the big Underwater Canada shows and ACUC and NAUI dive promotions when years ago these organizations spent lots of time and money to promote diving in Toby. Some of the folks that ran these organization have left us and some are still around. Today there is very little promotion about diving in Tobermory and or Ontario. I'm trying to remember when was the last time you read and article about diving in Ontario in Diver magazine which tends to promote the west. Today the only promotions for tobermory are dive shops like Scuba 2000 who have always promoted tobermory by means of there open water wekends. All in all what ever type of diver you are just enjoy what you have and remember to equalize and play safe. I will be going to Big bay on Sunday morning for a deep cold dark dive if any one wants to join ping away.

D M I

[Butch103]

I am always interested (as a newer diver) to know why you think that there is a demise in the diving industry in Canada?....

Do we just not keep up with the times?

Easier travel and easier to find new destinations via the internet?

[wetman]

Theres always another thing to consider when judging the value of dive locations as well. Convenience. I personally don't think its worth a 5 or so hour drive from my location to get to toby for the diving there. However, its very worth the 2-3 hour drive to kingston/brockville for me. If i was on the other side of toronto, i'd likely think very differently and would have found my spots in lake erie or tobermory as being my prefered places to be. I find cuba and mexico very convenient but australia likely wouldnt be as far as farther destinations go. If i lived in brockville or kingston i can pretty much guarantee that i'd never even think of tobermory or for that matter any other place in ontario.

steve

[Butch103]

wetman once bubbled...
Theres always another thing to consider when judging the value of dive locations as well. Convenience. I personally don't think its worth a 5 or so hour drive from my location to get to toby for the diving there. However, its very worth the 2-3 hour drive to kingston/brockville for me. If i was on the other side of toronto, i'd likely think very differently and would have found my spots in lake erie or tobermory as being my prefered places to be. I find cuba and mexico very convenient but australia likely wouldnt be as far as farther destinations go. If i lived in brockville or kingston i can pretty much guarantee that i'd never even think of tobermory or for that matter any other place in ontario.

steve

Well said..........

[DeepScuba]

Ahhhhh, one big happy family again.............G'night John-Boy, G'Night Mary-Ellen.

[SubMariner]

The problem they are going to run into if they keep uping the fee is it will make people think twice about going. If you only get there once a year do you really want to pay 25 bucks for the season, they should consider weekend type passes for 5 - 10 bucks. Then I think you would get more divers likely to go. Lets face it though the wrecks up there aren't that great. There's alot of places to go that are nicer diving. Toby is still good for training weekends but at 25 bucks a pop that may start to decline as well.

Lurch, the "weekend pass" thing is a good idea. It would certainly seem more economical than $20/season for someone who doesn't see themselves diving in Toby more than once (eg: Open Water checkout dives).

I guess too many people get turned off by Canuck cold water diving to give places like Brockville, Toby, et al. a chance. Maybe we should be promoting more drysuit diving?

Anyways, I'm with Rooster1. Time to get off the merry-go-round & mellow out.

Pax

~SubMariner~

[snuggle]

my move deep?naw i already made my move..like they say sooner or later youll go away..but hey if you want we should meet up..hmmmmm.. that would be interesting now wouldnt it...

[DIZZY]

Threats now....thats great.
Give it a rest. People may have a different opinion than you. Toby is what it is...but now they are overcharging for it......and yes the food did suck and was a little overpriced. Yes, it does relate to diving as does charter prices going up and the long drive.
By the way Deep Scuba.. I AGREE on that shop. He should be out of business. I have given my patronage there for long enough. I made a mistake by returning time after time thinking "it must be a bad day" Customer service is lacking in the industry as a whole but there, It Does Not Exist.
There seems to be, only a select few who can actually run a shop, charter, motel, resturant.....or should I say, business !

Back to the Tags......If they keep putting them up, the dive industry/ everything else in the town will suffer.

I actually love Toby for everything it has to offer. I have been there to dive, camp, fish or just be a tourist. It just saddens me that they are driving myself and others away.

It is all related !

[snuggle]

threats?your kidding right..get real..i think it would be interesting to meet him to see what makes him tick. and why he thinks the way he does..

[D M I]

Maybe its the flame under his ars that makes him tick. OOOOOOOOOOHHHHHHHH I'm out of gas.

D M I

[DeepScuba]

Me too (Out of gas)

It's funny that I made a first hand observation of an idiot and his dive shop, and then Snugs tells me maybe my clientelle is saying the same thing about me!!!

It's funny, he doesn't know what i do, nor has he ever met any of my clientelle, but he has managed to make the leap anyways.

How level headed and totally uniformed is he? And now he's starting with the threats!!! GREAT, just great, sure Snugs, you're the level headed one. It's OK, I don't require any apologies, now that you've taken it to higher level.

My only point to this entire thing was, as with DMI, Toby sucks. End of story. The way Snug is whining, you'd think he owns shares in Toby or the dive shops there!!!

Then he starts on my diving prowess, or lack thereof!!!!

Holy crap man, give it a rest already. Who's flaming who???? Who's being the big mouth A-hole now???


Why would you want to meet up?? What would you do?? Cry on my shoulder?? Would you whine about my dislike of Toby?? Or threaten me some more?

WHY???

Who cares???

Like Dizzy says, give it a rest.

Sure I have a flame under me, it's called motivation. It's why I have an informed opinion on Toby!!!

You know, UNLIKE you uniformed opinion on my business!!!

Look at the REAL stats Snug, DMI, Diz and myself, all informed toby divers have the same opinion on G&S.

Hmmmmm, maybe deepScuba IS right!!! Hmmmmmm

Piss and moan if you like, you're opinion is just that. We who dive Toby and the other places, know the difference, whether you choose to accept it or not, is not my problem.

I will quote from DIZZY...<quote>By the way Deep Scuba.. I AGREE on that shop. He should be out of business. I have given my patronage there for long enough. I made a mistake by returning time after time thinking "it must be a bad day" Customer service is lacking in the industry as a whole but there, It Does Not Exist.
</quote>

Quit your whining, baby. I don't go away, DMI and our opinions started this therad, so maybe it's you that should leave. Your uniformed opinions don't matter, so it seems.

Your move, pal.

[snuggle]

you out of gas?thats a joke..im sure that you have plenty more hot air left in you..by the way dmi hows business theses days..cant be all that great if you have time to blow off on here..maybe if you ask deep scuba real nice he will actually book something through you..

[DeepScuba]

I guess we know Snugs real personal motivation now.

Low IQ, flame everybody, dodge the truth, call us all the bad boys, get a few on his side to help his pathetic rants.

Guess what Snugs, when you're done flaming my business, and then DMI's and then anyone else who doesn't agree with you, maybe you could come back to reality.

Maybe you could tell me how you started, ran and sold a very successful business, and how you have all the time in the world now that' you're wealthy beyond our dreams. How you're so much better at running your business, and how we're all sadly mistaken.

Yes Snugs, for the challenged, such as you, I have an infinite amount of GAS. It's too easy to show your lack of logical thinking.

You're a lightweight, give it a rest.

So answer my questions, Snugs!!!

I though so, no logical reason to have said what you did, but like the fool you are, you will not make the correct choice to recant and apologize.

It's OK, i don't need one from your kind...it's hollow anyways.

Your move, pal.

(Mate in 3 moves)

[DeepScuba]

Wait wait wait...........there will be no "3rd move for me"....i was just PM'd something by someone............you know who you are, and I thank you for it. I honestly think I know who Snugs is now, after doing a read. I'm almost sure of it. I should have known better, slap me if I do it again ;-)

I'm done here.

See ya.

Thanks again,..............

I owe you some time, at least :-)

[DeepScuba]

In answer Snugs.............Life is Very good to me.

Thanks for asking.

[SubMariner]

Go PM for the flame fest, please?

The rest of us want to get back to talking about scuba.

Merci,

~SubMariner~

[DeepScuba]

Agreed.