1st Timer to Thailand...

[TightLines]

Considering taking a 2 week trip to Thailand in late January / early February of 2011. And plan to spend a minimum of 5-6 days diving. I understand that the better diving at this time of the year is off the western coast. As far as undebatable, best diving in Thailand, is it definitely the Similan Islands? Is my understanding that I live aboard is the only real solution for doing multiple days worth of diving in the area?

I am still in the very preliminary stages of planning the trip and will figure out the logistics, etc. in the coming weeks. My main priority is diving so I figured I would start there.

If my questions above are redundant (I have perused the forums) please feel free to send along any links you think may be helpful.

Any other information is greatly appreciated.

[TightLines]

On another note, any recommendation for a particular Thailand travel book, Frommers, Eye Witness, etc.?

[Molecule]

Hey TightLines,
Jan ~ Feb is the best time of year in many parts of Thailand, and of course the western coast. I am sure there will be another SB member who has a lot better info than me coming in and give you all good suggestions. Try to make arrangement in advance as it is high season for tourist.
Anyway, thanks for buying my wetsuits ;)

[OnTheSpot]

Without question, Similan Islands diving is the best that Thailand has to offer especially during January and February. No other region offers such a number of excellent dive sites and such wonderful diving as can be found in this protected national park. The Similans are a chain of 9 tiny and verdant islands fringed with white sand beaches and surrounded by some of the area's richest waters.

Immediately to the north of the Similan Islands and covering Koh Bon in the south, up to Koh Tachai, and finally northwards on to Richelieu Rock, lies the famous stretch of Andaman Sea lying between the Similan and Surin Islands which well renowned as whale shark and manta ray liveaboard safari territory.

[Quero]

TightLines, you have synthesized the reading you've done on the boards very well! Yes to everything you mention...

Yes, the west coast is home to the top diving destinations in the country.
Yes, the islands of the Similan Islands National Park, together with the Surin Islands National Park are unquestionably where you should aim to go.
Yes, a liveaboard is the easiest and best way to dive these parks.
Yes, January and February are ideal months to visit.

As far as travel guides go, I can recommend one called Exploring Phuket & Phi Phi (http://www.odysseypublications.com/publicationsPublication.php?publicationID=00052) though obviously it doesn't cover the entire country.

[aquamarin]

Hm, call me old-fashioned but I still like the Lonely Planet guides ;)

[lord khram]

Hm, call me old-fashioned but I still like the Lonely Planet guides ;)

yes I same.

[Quero]

For Southeast Asia in general, I like Travelfish.org. Since it's an online resource, Travelfish is constantly updated, and if you want something more substantial, they have downloadable guides for purchase, which also tend to be more up to date than a hardcopy guide (since books take a while to print, bind, warehouse, and distribute).

[TightLines]

Thank you everyone for the wonderful advice, now the tough part becomes sorting through it and picking out what should/needs to be done in a very limited 2 weeks of total travel time.

The really difficult part will be budgeting non-diving time. Any non-diving absolute musts for a nature, culture, food enthusiast?

[Quero]

Thank you everyone for the wonderful advice, now the tough part becomes sorting through it and picking out what should/needs to be done in a very limited 2 weeks of total travel time.

The really difficult part will be budgeting non-diving time. Any non-diving absolute musts for a nature, culture, food enthusiast?
Yes.
Nature: Sea kayaking in Ao Phang Nga, a UN World Heritage area.
Culture: Ayutthaya, near Bangkok, for late-Angkor-era temple ruins.
Food: There's delicious Thai food all over :D.

[aquamarin]

I'd also consider a 2- or 3-day trekking in the Khao Sok National Park close to Khao Lak. Have fun whatever you decide :D

Karin

[gubbins]

Hm, call me old-fashioned but I still like the Lonely Planet guides ;)

Travel guides are, like, so 2005. It's all iHolidays now. That said, using one to get an overview of the highlights for a country has it merits.

(For Thailand, totally in my opinion, worthwhile for the North and East, less so for anywhere near the islands)

[similandiver]

I recommend the Lonely Planet over the others...maybe it's because of the 3 great reviews (http://blog.wickeddiving.com/2009/07/lonely-planet-recommends-wicked-diving.html) they give our dive shop :D

Travelfish is also good, but their pages have not been updated for a very long time for more than 3 years.


Around Khao Lak there is plenty to do: Khao Sok National Park (we also do lake diving there!), Sri Phangna Park, as well the beaches. Add to that the daytrips to Krabi, Phang Nga bay and you have yourself a very nice holiday!

[TightLines]

Thank you all for the recommendations thus far.

The main purpose of the trip is to get some good diving in, so that is my starting point in planning. Liveaboard really seems to be the best option but the tough part now becomes picking one that fits into our flight schedule.

We plan to arrive on a Sunday afternoon and would like to do a 5 or 6 night liveaboard. Our return flight will be two weeks from our initial Saturday arrival.

From what I see, most of the 5 day trips are Saturday to Saturday so that obviously will not work for us.

Any recommendations for something that will logistically work?

Thanks for all of your in time in answering What must be common questions.

[wcj786]

Tightlines, even if the liveaboard leaves the marina before you get there, it is possible for them to pick you up the next day and take you out to the liveaboard. I don't know how that would work for you, but it is a possibility.

[aquamarin]

TightLines, we offer a 5-day trip including Similans, Koh Bon, Koh Tachai, Surin Islands and Richelieu Rock :) We don't have any "rest" days on land, so it's a sliding schedule rather than departure a fixed day every week. You are of course very welcome to have a look at our online schedule on Hem | mvoktavia.com (http://www.mvoktavia.com)

[TightLines]

Aqua, thanks for the recommendation.

As a further stipulation to the 5 day diving, and non-Saturday to Saturday schedule, I think the final stipulation will be that the trip includes richelieu rock.

I've spent a lot of time researching and am struggling a bit.

Any help is appreciated.

[Quero]

I've spent a lot of time researching and am struggling a bit.

Any help is appreciated.
TL, you really should consider getting an agent to help you with this. It's so much more efficient and it costs you no more than doing it all yourself. Agents have access to all of the information for the boats (including Aquamarin's boat!) and can organize short lists for you as well as get answers for all your questions about any specific boat.

[TightLines]

Thanks everyone for the help so far, I've spent a ton of time looking for the right boat (here and via Google).

I now know exactly what I am looking for and would really appreciate some recommendations for a medium to upper budget boat.

Any 5 day LOB that makes it to Richelieu.

Thanks in advance.

[limbo]

Try this outfit (http://www.similan-diving-safaris.com/schedule08093.html) in Kao Lak.

[OnTheSpot]

Have a look at our liveaboard calendar (http://www.divetheworldliveaboards.com/calendar-departures-detail.php?y=2011&m=01&boatfilter=&cntfilter=Thailand&locfilter=), it shows the trip dates and prices on our recommended boats.

[stevenl]

Thanks everyone for the help so far, I've spent a ton of time looking for the right boat (here and via Google).

I now know exactly what I am looking for and would really appreciate some recommendations for a medium to upper budget boat.

Any 5 day LOB that makes it to Richelieu.

Thanks in advance.Good budget boat with 5 day trips? Oktavia (http://www.thailand-scuba.com/sim_A1.htm).

[kiwidiver.com]

Yes the west coast is the best diving at that time of year.
Yes The Similans is fantastic and well worth doing.

But I wouldn’t discount some of the day diving out of Phuket at that time of year also. Manta’s at Racha Noi, Leopard Sharks at Shark point, Turtles at Phi Phi and some of the soft corals on Anemone reef are well worth a visit. Even some of the local beach dives while not as good visibility wise will turn up some treasures.

So consider adding 2 or 3 days of local diving to you 5-6 day liveaboard to see the best of the west coast

Kevin
@kiwidiver.com

[TightLines]

I appreciate everyones input. The logistics of a 5 day trip just wouldn't fit into our schedule so we've gone ahead and booked a day.

Thanks again.

[TightLines]

Another question for everyone here, and I'm sure it wont be my last.

we are working with an agent that is requesting a direct wire transfer (no credit cards) for all of our payments, deposit, etc.

Is it typical for a dive agent to do this or should this be a redflag?

Thanks for your help.

[Quero]

Wire transfers are standard practice.

[JTinSD]

Another question for everyone here, and I'm sure it wont be my last.

we are working with an agent that is requesting a direct wire transfer (no credit cards) for all of our payments, deposit, etc.

Is it typical for a dive agent to do this or should this be a redflag?

Thanks for your help.

As a longtime SE Asia traveler and customer, I agree with Quero, wire transfers are SOP. Depending on the amount, Western Union can be cheaper and less hassle (for the sender). Wire transfers are usually a set fee, whereas Western Union fees depend on the amount. I am not clear as to the relative recipient hassles for the two methods.

[Quero]

As a longtime SE Asia traveler and customer, I agree with Quero, wire transfers are SOP. Depending on the amount, Western Union can be cheaper and less hassle (for the sender). Wire transfers are usually a set fee, whereas Western Union fees depend on the amount. I am not clear as to the relative recipient hassles for the two methods.

From my perspective--
Bank-to-bank wire transfers provide peace of mind to senders since they know that they are sending the money to a commercial account at the bank and not to an individual. However, wire transfers take several days before the funds are actually deposited into the receiver's account, and sometimes senders get worried about where the money is in the interim when they no longer have it, and I don't have it yet. For accounting procedures, I find it more transparent to have the money sent by wire since there is a clear paper trail from that person to my company. Another advantage of wire transfers is that the fee for the sender is generally just one flat amount, and the bank commission on this end is quite small. So if you're sending a substantial amount of money, it can be advantageous in terms of fees to do it by way of a wire transfer. It's a bit of a hassle for the sender to go to their bank during banking hours to take care of it, so I do hear some grumbling about that at times. Also, we never really get the exact correct amount that we show on the invoice to the customer.

Western Union transfers are nice because the money is nearly instantaneously available to the receiver--it takes at most an hour for the funds to arrive. Also, the exact, correct amount comes with no surprises about bank fees and commissions on this end. However, the money has to be sent to an individual who can present ID in order to collect; the sender isn't actually paying a company, so there's no paper trail of funds from the sender to the company. The other bad thing about Western Union is that the fees can be significantly more expensive than wire transfers. First of all, the basic fees are high; next, their foreign currency rates are not as favorable as those from banks; and finally, there is a limit as to how much you can send in any one transmission, which means extra fees each time you have to split the amount and send it in batches. I think it might be capped at US$1000 per transfer. I get a fair number of Western Union transfers from my customers who are working as contractors in Iraq and Afghanistan since they can't really get to a bank to effect a wire transfer.

[stevenl]

I would not call it a red flag, but a bit strange and not very convenient.
Any decent agent should be able to accept credit card payments.

[limbo]

I would not call it a red flag, but a bit strange and not very convenient.
Any decent agent should be able to accept credit card payments.

I have to disagree with this, Thai banks don't exactly make it easy to have this service available. Most often a hefty deposit is required before such a service is made available.

The only credit card payment option I have is through PayPal, this implies however that the receiver will have to set up a PayPal account.

I'm not an agent but I've seen the above procedures happen to fairly big dc's and the frustrating effect it can cause.

Providing you're a TAT registered company in Thailand, that will see you deposit 100.00,-THB in an escrow account with TAT for having a website and a similar amount in deposit with a bank for having the option for offering credit card payments.
That's a lot of money!

[stevenl]

I have to disagree with this, Thai banks don't exactly make it easy to have this service available. Most often a hefty deposit is required before such a service is made available.Are you a professional liveaboard agent?


The only credit card payment option I have is through PayPal, this implies however that the receiver will have to set up a PayPal account.Incorrect, credit card payments can be made via Paypal without opening an account.


Providing you're a TAT registered company in Thailand, that will see you deposit 100.00,-THB in an escrow account with TAT for having a website and a similar amount in deposit with a bank for having the option for offering credit card payments.
That's a lot of money!Paypal works perfectly for this, as does e.g. Thai E-Pay, and there are similar 3rd party services. Also Thai banks really are not retarded, although sometimes I also think so, and they do offer this service without any kind of deposit, some even without too much hassle.
A professional liveaboard agent should IMO have a credit card payment service set up, it can be arranged easily, even in Thailand, so that really is no excuse.

It is simply more convenient for guests to pay, it just takes a bit of effort to set it up.

[limbo]

Agree that a professional live aboard company should have a credit card payment option.
Your comment about PayPal and paying by credit card is also correct, my wrong!

Thai banks unfortunately don't seem to think that logic and so far I haven't seen any banks on Samui that offer a credit card machine/option without too much hassle.

Getting a Thai credit card as a foreigner is even a hassle.

[stevenl]

Thai banks unfortunately don't seem to think that logic and so far I haven't seen any banks on Samui that offer a credit card machine/option without too much hassle.I have a not too big DC, but have had no problems acquiring an EDC (credit card machine). Was with Bank of Ayudhya, am just changing to Kasikorn because their service I like better. Company papers, rental contract, ID, bank book, and all done.

Next step will be to get their (Kasikorn's) E-pay facility, the same system e.g. Thai E-pay is using. When that works ok I can get rid of Paypal, which is more expensive.

[Quero]

Are you a professional liveaboard agent?

Incorrect, credit card payments can be made via Paypal without opening an account.

Paypal works perfectly for this, as does e.g. Thai E-Pay, and there are similar 3rd party services. Also Thai banks really are not retarded, although sometimes I also think so, and they do offer this service without any kind of deposit, some even without too much hassle.
A professional liveaboard agent should IMO have a credit card payment service set up, it can be arranged easily, even in Thailand, so that really is no excuse.

It is simply more convenient for guests to pay, it just takes a bit of effort to set it up.

Respectfully disagree. I've got two credit card payment options (through two different banks), but they were far from a snap to set up, and only the one which requires the credit card to be physically swiped through the machine was free with no required deposit. The fixed deposit I made for "mail order" and web-based charging privileges was several times more than the required deposit for the TAT. Pay Pal only works if you want to accept payments as an individual--getting a commercial PayPal account in Thailand is more trouble than I was willing to go to. I've also tried Thai E-Pay and found it inefficient given the lag in receiving the funds and the inflated service charges.

The long and the short of it is that wire transfers are quite usual here and shouldn't make any customer feel that the agent s/he is working with is less than honest and correct.

[Batfish]

We have online payment, easy to use from the Siam Commercial Bank. Yes it takes a deposit to set it up. I do kind of agree with Steven that any decent company who has been around for some years should have online credit card payment as an option. We did start with only bank transfer options but found it too limiting and too many people were requesting to pay by credit card - after all, if you pay by card you probably get reward points or airmiles or maybe travel insurance, all kind of benefits. Some people prefer bank transfer and we can do that too.

[stevenl]

and only the one which requires the credit card to be physically swiped through the machine was free with no required deposit.So you managed to set up a credit card facility at your 'shop'.


The fixed deposit I made for "mail order" and web-based charging privileges was several times more than the required deposit for the TAT. You can get for a reasonable deposit, less than the 100.000 Baht TAT requirement anyway. I know quite some shops that do, and I'm looking, as mentioned, at doing this myself shortly.


Pay Pal only works if you want to accept payments as an individual--getting a commercial PayPal account in Thailand is more trouble than I was willing to go to.That really depends on how you have set up your bank accounts. We accept Paypal and it gets transfered to our shop account.


I've also tried Thai E-Pay and found it inefficient given the lag in receiving the funds and the inflated service charges. Yes, quite a timelag, but otherwise works fine.


The long and the short of it is that wire transfers are quite usual here and shouldn't make any customer feel that the agent s/he is working with is less than honest and correct.True, but IMO not professional. But hey, I'm not a customer here.

[Quero]

So you managed to set up a credit card facility at your 'shop'.
Two of them, in fact.

[Luko]

Wire transfers are standard practice.
As a regular South Eastern Asia customer, I have to strongly disagree with you, Quero.
Most of the replies have been on the pro's perspective, I have to step in and give you a customer's point of view (who's also a tourism consultant btw...).

I have NEVER (I underline the word NEVER) been asked a wire transfer in my 6 or more Thailand inland/underwater trips. All my bills where paid on my credit card (including Steven's ;) though he's not the only business I used, even in Phuket...).

Otherwise, I have only been asked once to pay a deposit for a dive center in Indonesia using wire transfer... and quite strangely I wouldn't recommend this operation, because of their poor customer management.

Tourism business managers have to understand that wire transfer is not that common in many parts of Europe and can cost a LOT compared to the price of the product that was purchased. This is not a good service that you are delivering to your customers but rather a service that benefits to yourselves, it doesn't provide any value to your guests, more than that : it may sometimes bother. I can tell you that transfering money from France is a pain in the neck : it takes me almost a half day with paperwork, faxing documents, going to the bank, etc. while it should take no more than 10 minutes with a credit card. The cerdit card fees is YOUR problem, as a customer I don't want to hear about them, adjust your price accordingly!

You also have to know that most of the high end credit cards includes a cancellation insurance for anything that has been paid for, asking to pay by wire transfer means your customer is not protected on that side. If I break my leg two days before going on holiday, my credit card company will refund my deposit whereas if I paid by wire transfer I am screwed : do you call that a customer service? :eyebrow:...

Personally, I absolutely do not feel that the asian dive centre I am contracting with is more honest when I am asked to pay a deposit on a british or german bank :)... or even sometimes on a taxfree area bank like I was asked for that Indonesian dive center.

My recommendation upon that peculiar operation would be : Warning!!! They're here for your money first, your satisfaction comes only second.

[Quero]

Luko, I respect your opinion, and you have every right to use whatever criteria you wish to decide whom to do business with. If payment options are high on your list of criteria, that's your privilege.

Every customer is different, however. Some of my customers don't want to pay by credit card because the banks typically skew the exchange rates and add a steep percentage for foreign currency charges in addition to other fees. (There are currently large class-action suits filed against certain credit card companies due to this practice.) Other customers do like to use credit cards, particularly because they can get "points". My own invoices carry a list of different ways customers can make payment. They choose; I don't. That's what I call customer service.

Regardless, of what I do, or what Steve does, or what you prefer, the OP seemed to be asking whether he should be worried about fraud if an agent requested a wire transfer. Quite frankly, I do find it objectionable to suggest that anyone who hasn't invested in the process of credit card payments is unprofessional. It really doesn't reflect on the honesty of the agent or whether s/he will defraud the customer. Much more important is the relationship the client has developed with the agent. If there isn't confidence there, providing credit card information, sending wire transfers, using Western Union, or paying cash--it makes no difference. When I book trips or tours or air tickets or whatever as a customer, I won't work with anybody I don't have confidence in, regardless of the payment options.

If the OP is otherwise happy with the agent, the payment options are secondary. If he has other reasons to doubt that he's receiving good service, then the lack of a credit card payment option may be enough to make him take his business elsewhere. That is certainly his prerogative. I wouldn't personally discourage any diver planning to come to Phuket from booking with a particular agent based solely on payment options. I'm glad they're coming and that somebody is getting their business.

[Luko]

Quero, one of the fun of this SB Thailand board is that it is mostly populated with dive industry professionals or related... more densely than the other regional boards. Hence any commentary about the way this one or another dive operation makes its business will always be followed by what I would name a “corporate defense to critics”. I'm only slightly disappointed you are bringing the topic on these grounds.

During my daytime work, I often hear :

Every customer is different, however.
Usually our clients will also add.. "and we are operating a different business too" :D ... until we convince them there is only ONE thing that counts : what the clients ACTUALLY say and what they experience at the end of the day.
It happens my work is specialized in tourism reservation systems and web platforms, on what we see, trust me, ease of payment can hit high on the customer selection...especially on a market where there are different options for buying a similar service.

Batfish said it all when stressing on the fact credit card is widely asked by the customers for payment. This is not a novelty, all the current online sales surveys stress on the fact there is very little fear about online credit card payment remaining from the old Internet days.
I am quite skeptical with the justifications on the benefits of wire transfer for the client side... at least in most parts of Europe.
For example, I do not agree with what you claim about credit card fees for many European countries,… I cannot speak for the US. I do experience at least three times a year that credit card exchange rates are much more advantageous than any exchange rate you can find for cash for example, you’d need to transfer a very hefty amount to pay less fees than with a credit card (imagine that for any wire transfer implying a different currency than euro, I have to shell out a flat fee of 25€ over the exchange fees and then the recipient will ask me to pay his own bank charges).

Kudos to you if you can provide a choice of payment means to your customers, that's where I do follow you... But going back to the poster's concerns, I don't understand this is the case : he's been asked a wire transfer. Period. NOT a choice between wire transfer and credit card payment, that's where I think it's steep. (or my bad if I didn't understand well his post...:dontknow: )


the OP seemed to be asking whether he should be worried about fraud if an agent requested a wire transfer.
I have not limited my understanding on this sole interpretation of his question, I reckoned it was a broader question. As I understand it, the poster asked whether that was common practise to be asked ONLY for wire transfer, independantly of the fraud issue (ie "Is it a professional way to restrict the term of payment?").
Many other posters agreed on the fact that the credit card option should be a minimum requirement for the customer. For me, as a business consultant it is a lack of service to the customer, hence I am entitled to wonder which other services would be missing on other aspects... for instance, how should he pay the balance? beforehand with another wire transfer? By bringing lots of cash? :confused:


Much more important is the relationship the client has developed with the agent
C'mon, Quero : how can you REALLY assess the relationship with your agent on the basis of two or three mails. On my last experience with that indonesian agent who I had to transfer his money to a bank located in a european taxfree zone, the manager replied very happily to my emails.
I went over my wire transfer dread and was confident it would be a good dive trip : in the end I was very disappointed, and only marginally for the fact the manager didn't even care about meeting her clients (she only had max of 6 clients per week to handle).
Don't misunderstand what I am writing : I am not saying that having no other choice than wire transfer payments automatically means that the agent is a scammer, but for me as a business consultant the “wire transfer symptom” COULD be a signal that the operation is not fully dedicated to customer service.

Oh yeah, and btw, you can ask Steven, I am probably demanding but not the kind of "difficult to handle client" if you thought I was. ;)

[lord khram]

As a regular South Eastern Asia customer, I have to strongly disagree with you, Quero.
Most of the replies have been on the pro's perspective, I have to step in and give you a customer's point of view (who's also a tourism consultant btw...).

I have NEVER (I underline the word NEVER) been asked a wire transfer in my 6 or more Thailand inland/underwater trips. All my bills where paid on my credit card (including Steven's ;) though he's not the only business I used, even in Phuket...).

Otherwise, I have only been asked once to pay a deposit for a dive center in Indonesia using wire transfer... and quite strangely I wouldn't recommend this operation, because of their poor customer management.

Tourism business managers have to understand that wire transfer is not that common in many parts of Europe and can cost a LOT compared to the price of the product that was purchased. This is not a good service that you are delivering to your customers but rather a service that benefits to yourselves, it doesn't provide any value to your guests, more than that : it may sometimes bother. I can tell you that transfering money from France is a pain in the neck : it takes me almost a half day with paperwork, faxing documents, going to the bank, etc. while it should take no more than 10 minutes with a credit card. The cerdit card fees is YOUR problem, as a customer I don't want to hear about them, adjust your price accordingly!

You also have to know that most of the high end credit cards includes a cancellation insurance for anything that has been paid for, asking to pay by wire transfer means your customer is not protected on that side. If I break my leg two days before going on holiday, my credit card company will refund my deposit whereas if I paid by wire transfer I am screwed : do you call that a customer service? :eyebrow:...

Personally, I absolutely do not feel that the asian dive centre I am contracting with is more honest when I am asked to pay a deposit on a british or german bank :)... or even sometimes on a taxfree area bank like I was asked for that Indonesian dive center.

My recommendation upon that peculiar operation would be : Warning!!! They're here for your money first, your satisfaction comes only second.


I agree Luko, all too often customers opinions or requirements don't seem to be important any more

[JTinSD]

I've been coming to the region for a long time. In the past 40 years things have changed.

It used to be I landed in a destination city with nothing prepaid, maybe a few letters exchanged that led me to believe that maybe there would be a room waiting for me. I bought bus and train and boat tickets as I needed them.

Then about ten years ago with the advent of the internet, I could prepay and thus definitely reserve some arrangements. Most often the method was bank wire transfer or Western Union. I am used to paying by these methods, and there is no red flag for me.

Now there is PayPal and Thai E-Pay and just straight credit card payments, and this is a real improvement. My last three flights to the region have been on frequent flier miles and anytime I can use a credit card, especially for travel-related expenses, I will. The consumer protection offered is a big deal as well.

To be clear, wire transfers are not a red flag, but I would prefer to use a credit card, and it would be a factor for me as to how I make arrangements.

OT: You know, it used to be fun to land in a new strange city and make it up as I went. There is really something to be said for spontaneity, although knowing what comes next has its appeal, now that I am older.

[Quero]

Luko, first of all, I didn't think anything about you or your character. People are often quite "forceful" when they write casually in forums like this one, while in real life they are relaxed and agreeable.

Next the OP only asked if it was a "red flag." To me that meant "is the agent trustworthy." I answered that question from the perspective of the likely integrity of the agent. I think you approached it from an entirely different angle.

I agree that it would be wonderful if taking credit card payments were 100% standard procedure here, but it's not. Getting set up to accept credit card payments is not a trivial thing to accomplish here, though it can be done, given enough time. Simply getting approval for a credit card merchant number for a machine that requires that the physical card be swiped through it and cannot take offline charges (mail order) or web-payments (payment gateway) requires quite a lot of paperwork and application processing time. (My online machine is through Ayudhya Bank.) Once you get into the off-site charges, it gets even more complex and involves a substantial low interest (.85%/annum) fixed deposit for which the bank holds the passbook. (Mine is through Kasikorn Bank.) I simply don't find it appropriate that a company that hasn't managed all of the time and effort and capital it takes to get this done be labeled unprofessional. We all started out that way, exactly as Batfish stated his agency did, and added credit card facilities when we were able, due to demand.

I think my customers can judge their relationship to me, but you're right--two or three emails isn't enough. Generally speaking, I exchange dozens of emails with each customer. Based on my experience with them, they feel very free to shoot me a short email with any question whatever, and in the accumulation these conversational exchanges, we learn about one another. I presume it's the same for my colleagues here--I think the customers do get a sense of us.

I'm going to retire from this thread now, as it is veering off-topic with all the discussion the ease/difficulty of setting up credit card payment options, at least in the way I interpreted the topic, which was "can I trust my agent?" The OP isn't my customer, by the way, so I'm actually "defending" (your term) somebody else's business. I hope the customer remains happy with the agent, and I hope the agent prospers.

[Thai_Diver]

I don't understand the 'Us & Them' attitude on this forum. Why is it that certain 'customers' always seem to be attacking the 'Proffesionals'?

It seems to me that too many 'fun divers' expect their chosen dive centre to behave like a charity. In my experience (as a 'customer') most DC's I have visited in Thailand have given me exactly what I wanted and expected... A great day out and good diving!

[Luko]

Why is it that certain 'customers' always seem to be attacking the 'Proffesionals'?

Don't you think the term "always" is a bit exagerated and don't you think only the good experiences are worth writing?

About the term "attacking", which is also exagerated, I may tell you that some time ago, after I wrote ONE post that was about some of Phuket dive operators practises and advice I ddin't agree with, my photo gallery was suddenly flooded with negative comments written by imaginary or anonymous internauts.
It happens I have a geographical analysis tools embeded which says where the people are connecting from... Guess what : they had been connecting from Bangkok and Phuket... :D

How mature.


In my experience (as a 'customer') most DC's I have visited in Thailand have given me exactly what I wanted and expected
For me, the important term in your sentence is "most". Can you tell us more about the "rest".




There is really something to be said for spontaneity
JT, You're spot on !
This is exactly why I am awaiting eagerly my holidays, to fly the further away from home. Further east, there are still places where you just can't contact anyone and have to be spontaneaous... or where they won't ask you to pay anything before you come.
It's also about trusting each other. :)

[Thai_Diver]

Don't you think the term "always" is a bit exagerated and don't you think only the good experiences are worth writing?

About the term "attacking", which is also exagerated

If you read what I said you would have noticed the words certain 'customers', not all 'customers'. So in answer to your question, no, it is not a bit exagerated.

Anyhow, I have no axe to grind on this one so I'll bow out of this 'tit for tat'. I'd rather be diving than sitting here talking about it...