Skip safety stop to assist diver to surface?

[Max Speed]

Here is a scenario I witnessed last weekend

A diver panics, bolts to the surface and is revived with rescue breathing from the near drowning.

If you are the "buddy" and you are at a depth where the PADI tables mandate a safety stop do you skip the stop to chase the diver up? (Safety stop not deco stop!)

A three minute delay assisting this diver could have changed a near drowning to a drowning!

If you do skip the safety stop, should you drop back down for a 4-1/2 minute stop (1.5 X 3) after passing off the injured diver to someone at the surface?

[vjanelle]

If you didn't exceed the recommended ascent rates (30/60' min), didn't come within a few minutes of your NDLs, you don't need to do the safety stop period.

At least that's the general consensus.

[sabbath999]

Safety stops are not "decompression" stops.

Period.

Therefore, you can skip them. It is best practice, when not in an emergency, to make them... but they are never required.

If you need to do a decompression stop, then we get into another kettle of fish entirely.

As to the second part of your question about dropping back down, no, you should continue to assist in the emergency.

[fdog]

Sure. I'd blow off a safety stop to assist someone in distress, even if it wasn't my buddy.

Heck, I'd blow off a mild deco obligation to assist my buddy if they were in trouble.


...There's a difference between slavishly following "the rules", and, understanding where the rules come from.


All the best, James

[sabbath999]

Heck, I'd blow off a mild deco obligation to assist my buddy if they were in trouble.


...There's a difference between slavishly following "the rules", and, understanding where the rules come from.


All the best, James

I would too, but you understand (and I understand) what a "mild" deco obligation is... that would be, obviously, situational...

[idocsteve]

If I had just completed a dive where there would be anything greater than moderate risk to myself by skipping a safety stop I would not ascend directly to the surface to help any diver unless it was someone I cared about such as my girlfriend, a really close friend, or a relative.

Nor would I expect another diver to risk their own life to assist me unless we were buddied by our own choice (meaning none of this instabuddy crap).

With the exception of my newly certified girlfriend, I dive solo for a reason.

[sabbath999]

One more thing I would add is, depending on how close I had gotten to my NDL on the dive, that might be it for me for the day (i.e. no more diving that day) if I blew off a safety stop after having been right up against the NDL on a dive. If I was nowhere near it? No worries.

[PfcAJ]

I'm with you, James. I would blow off a safety stop without even thinking about it, and deco to help a buddy, to a point.

You can fix bent (usually), you can't fix dead (ever).

[Cave Diver]

If you are the "buddy" and you are at a depth where the PADI tables mandate a safety stop do you skip the stop to chase the diver up? (Safety stop not deco stop!)


If you do skip the safety stop, should you drop back down for a 4-1/2 minute stop (1.5 X 3) after passing off the injured diver to someone at the surface?

Would, and have. I've also blown off a shallow deco stop to check on a diver who surfaced early. After ensuring they were positively buoyant and okay on the surface I went back and completed an extended 20' stop.

To me, it's all about the personal degree of risk you're willing to accept and your degree of understanding regarding decompression theory to make a "best guess" judgment call.

[sabbath999]

If I had just completed a dive where there would be anything greater than moderate risk to myself by skipping a safety stop I would not ascend directly to the surface to help any diver unless it was someone I cared about such as my girlfriend, a really close friend, or a relative.

When diving within the recreational NDL tables, there should NEVER be anything more than a moderate risk to yourself by skipping a safety stop... decompression tables are quite conservative, and LONG before you get to a "greater than moderate" risk of a DCS hit you will be "decompression diving".

[LeadTurn_SD]

Here is a scenario I witnessed last weekend

A diver panics, bolts to the surface and is revived with rescue breathing from the near drowning.

If you are the "buddy" and you are at a depth where the PADI tables mandate a safety stop do you skip the stop to chase the diver up? (Safety stop not deco stop!)

A three minute delay assisting this diver could have changed a near drowning to a drowning!

If you do skip the safety stop, should you drop back down for a 4-1/2 minute stop (1.5 X 3) after passing off the injured diver to someone at the surface?

YES!!! In any emergency situation, I would not hesitate to skip a safety stop.... heck, if I think you are just having a "bad hair day" I'll skip a safety stop to make sure you are ok.



"Safety stops" are a relatively recent procedure, as is the 30'/min ascent rate. Millions of ascents have been made within NDL limits using 60'/min ascent rate and no farging safety stop.

The bulk of my dives were in the pre-safety stop days. Using USN Tables..... so less conservative, faster ascent rates, and no safety stops.

And no, I would NOT go back and complete the safety stop.... it is not a deco stop!

Best wishes.

[parzdiver]

If it is just a safety stop I would go through it, ascend at a safe rate and help the other diver.


Safety stops are not "decompression" stops.


I must disagree with this statement. All diving is decompression diving since you on-gas and off-gas. A safety stop IS a decompression stop since you are stopping to off-gas and add an additional safety factor, however it is not a REQUIRED decompression stop. I recently read "Deco for Divers" and there is some compelling evidence regarding the great benefit of the safety stop.

[funrecdiver]

Of course I would skip a recreational safety stop to help a buddy to the surface in a medical emergency, as long as I was safely within no decompression limits on the computer, and that is generally "always" for me, so no problem at all.

You should, however, be more concerned with your ascent rate, and insure both of you ascend safely and avoid air expansion injuries.

[idocsteve]

I must disagree with this statement. All diving is decompression diving since you on-gas and off-gas. A safety stop IS a decompression stop since you are stopping to off-gas and add an additional safety factor, however it is not a REQUIRED decompression stop. I recently read "Deco for Divers" and there is some compelling evidence regarding the great benefit of the safety stop.

You're arguing semantics and stating the obvious, nothing more.

[Louie]

If the dive was a "No-decompression" dive then you are under no decompression obligation and it would be reasonably safe to skip the 3 minute safety stop.

You should ascend SLOWLY as in a scenario such as a distressed diver on the surface, the reaction of many divers is to rush to the surface to give assistance.

An injured rescuer is worse than useless and lowers the chances of a successful rescue for the first casualty so remember the "never put yourself in danger" rule.

[Dyno Bill]

I can be real accurate in this question, I have done it without any hesitation. It is at best a roll of the dice and the first time you did it that day was stepping over the entry gate.

[nolatom]

I think I would risk a chamber ride if it actually meant drown or no-drown to a fellow diver. But I hope it never comes to that.

Since we agree the safety stop on a "green" computer is low-risk to skip, I would skip.

[LIVES4SHARKS]

The safety stop is not mandatory, but a cushion for safety. When bringing up an unconscious or distressed diver, you take them up in a controlled manner to the surface. In an OOA or a life and death situation, time is of the essence. Do not hessitate to get that diver to help.

Carolyn:shark2:

[tflaris]

YES!!! In any emergency situation, I would not hesitate to skip a safety stop.... heck, if I think you are just having a "bad hair day" I'll skip a safety stop to make sure you are ok.



"Safety stops" are a relatively recent procedure, as is the 30'/min ascent rate. Millions of ascents have been made within NDL limits using 60'/min ascent rate and no farging safety stop.

The bulk of my dives were in the pre-safety stop days. Using USN Tables..... so less conservative, faster ascent rates, and no safety stops.

And no, I would NOT go back and complete the safety stop.... it is not a deco stop!

Best wishes.


+1

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[ptyx]

Blow the stop.

If you're worried, get O2 on the boat (or shore) when situation is under control.

[tylerinflorida]

Skip It! Fast ascent to 30ft, then slower the rest of the way up. Then, I'd breathe some O2 for the hell of it.

[Digger54]

.... PADI tables mandate a safety stop....

"mandate" and "safety stop" do not belong in the same sentence. One is a "must" and the other is a "may".

[Max Speed]

Thanks all. You echo my instinct. Skip the safety stop but control the ascent rate.:glad:

[sabbath999]

If it is just a safety stop I would go through it, ascend at a safe rate and help the other diver.

I must disagree with this statement. All diving is decompression diving since you on-gas and off-gas. A safety stop IS a decompression stop since you are stopping to off-gas and add an additional safety factor, however it is not a REQUIRED decompression stop. I recently read "Deco for Divers" and there is some compelling evidence regarding the great benefit of the safety stop.

Hence my putting the word decompression is quotes. Obviously, all diving is deco.

I am not trying to argue that a safety stop isn't a good idea, I am just saying that preventing a fellow diver from drowning by rescuing them is a great benefit to their safety, more so than a non-required stop.

General note, not directed to any poster in particular: I think that all the people preaching about the value of the safety stop without actually explaining WHY it is good BUT NOT REQUIRED practice is actually confusing people into thinking it is something that IS required. Yes, they are a good idea. Yes, I do them, every time I dive (at least if the dive takes me under 20 feet).

Slow ascent, at least one safety stop (deeper ones seem to be a good idea as well) is just a safe way to dive... but eliminating that safety stop isn't going to mean a chamber ride unless it is a freak situation or you have been pushing your NDL's or not keeping track of your tables/computers like you should.

Letting a person drown while I sit at 15 feet for a non-required stop? I couldn't live with myself if I was that much of a jerk.

[TSandM]

I'm with James. I'd blow off a "required" safety stop; I'd blow off a small deco obligation (<10min). I wouldn't go back in the water afterwards. If it was just a "required" safety stop, I'd just self-monitor; if I blew off significant deco, I'd go hunting for an O2 bottle to suck on for a while.

[Walter]

Even if it were a short staged decompression stop, I'd skip it. You should look at the risks/benefits of both actions.

Assuming it is a safety stop:

Make the stop - risks - the other diver is dead - benefits - You have a larger safety margin.

Skip the stop - risks - almost none, your incredibly small chance of getting bent increases slightly - benefits - the other diver lives.

Assuming it is a short staged decompression stop:

Make the stop - risks - the other diver is dead - benefits - you don't get a possible case of mild DCS.

Skip the stop - risks - you might get a treatable case of mild DCS - benefits - the other diver lives.

It looks like as easy call to me.

[DennisW]

Assessing the risk is the question here. Walter laid it out exactly. Allowing another person to die because you "might" get a treatable case of DCS is unforgivable.

[irishsquid]

Even if it were a short staged decompression stop, I'd skip it. You should look at the risks/benefits of both actions.

Assuming it is a safety stop:

Make the stop - risks - the other diver is dead - benefits - You have a larger safety margin.

Skip the stop - risks - almost none, your incredibly small chance of getting bent increases slightly - benefits - the other diver lives.

Assuming it is a short staged decompression stop:

Make the stop - risks - the other diver is dead - benefits - you don't get a possible case of mild DCS.

Skip the stop - risks - you might get a treatable case of mild DCS - benefits - the other diver lives.

It looks like as easy call to me.
Well laid out! It took a lot longer to type this than it would have taken to actually run through this and make the decision. My kind of dive buddy. :)

[ZenDiver.3D]

yep. Skip it. Help your buddy.

[Greendiver]

Swim through the safety stop without a doubt. And as said above, mix into equation that the "victim" is loved one and the willingness to bend the rules further is a given.

Good question! (Too bad it wasn't just hypothetical.)

[carobinsoniv]

Here is a scenario I witnessed last weekend

A diver panics, bolts to the surface and is revived with rescue breathing from the near drowning.

If you are the "buddy" and you are at a depth where the PADI tables mandate a safety stop do you skip the stop to chase the diver up? (Safety stop not deco stop!)

A three minute delay assisting this diver could have changed a near drowning to a drowning!

If you do skip the safety stop, should you drop back down for a 4-1/2 minute stop (1.5 X 3) after passing off the injured diver to someone at the surface?

I would help my buddy. I would not resume the safety stop. The tables are fairly conservative and chances would be that I had an average depth shallower than the maximum depth I reached making them ever more conservative.