Gotta vent!!!

Went diving with a few friends at well known "easy" shore dive. A group of about 10 divers from one of the LDS was there for an organized dive (they all signed waivers etc..at the dive site so that's how I know that this was an "organized" outing). Their DM, after collecting their waivers, decided to give the pre-dive brief...while smoking a couple of cigarettes (nice example to give). The group consisted of mostly OW divers with VERY little experience (I overheard half of them say that that they got certified a few years ago and hadn't gon diving). Only a couple within the group had dive this wreck...granted, conditions were pretty nice, vis 30 feet, water temp 75, depth 40 feet. We decide to hurry in before this group ruined the vis. After about a 40 minutes dive, we started to see some of the group following the guideline to the wreck and starting their dive (it took them a crap load of time before getting into the water). Luckily, we were finishing our dive cause this group was all over the bottom! :upset: After ascending, we noticed that the DM hadn't gone in the water. He was just lounging on the shore having another cigarette; I don't even think that he had gear with him. I approached the DM and told him that I was a bit worried about the group that was down there. His response: "They all have there c-card and they all signed the waiver"! My buddies and I decided to hang around on shore until the group was out...just to make sure everything was OK. Everything ended up being OK but two of the ladies ended up coming out of the water with their tanks hanging by the hoses (and not the tank band!) What a mess!!!

The DM obviously does not understand that no waiver is ironclad, particulary if negligence is involved. All he will need is one widow with an attorney to discover how worthless a waiver is in that situation.

DA Aquamaster once bubbled...
The DM obviously does not understand that no waiver is ironclad, particulary if negligence is involved. All he will need is one widow with an attorney to discover how worthless a waiver is in that situation.

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I disagree...you sign...your responsible for yourself. There are some pretty ironclad agreements and I'd be surprised if they didn't have a lawyer write a great one up.
What's the difference then if I went and showed my C-card in a shop and had their tanks filled? None..nada...
There are plenty of places that don't send a DM along BECAUSE of personal liability.
However, saying all this I think that if they didn't have a refresher and it was my call...I wouldn't let them dive. I'm not a DM but examples like these are actually very common.

Sounds you had a good dive and you were correct in diving first.

since he was "supervizing" the outing ( and there is no requirement that you be in water to be "in charge") he would need the waiver if something went bad. while no waiver is iron clad, it is a very good CYA in these situation. as long as the breifing was 'complete' - don't penetrate, watch for entanglements ect. he's done his job.

i think you have a mistaken idea of what a DM's duties are in cases of certified divers, babysitting isn't one of them.

divemed06 once bubbled...
Went diving with a few friends at well known "easy" shore dive. A group of about 10 divers from one of the LDS was there for an organized dive (they all signed waivers etc..at the dive site so that's how I know that this was an "organized" outing). Their DM, after collecting their waivers, decided to give the pre-dive brief...while smoking a couple of cigarettes (nice example to give). The group consisted of mostly OW divers with VERY little experience ...

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They're certified divers, they're on their own.

Simple as that.

James connell once bubbled...

i think you have a mistaken idea of what a DM's duties are in cases of certified divers, babysitting isn't one of them.

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Maybe so...but IMHO there is a difference between being a person who just picks up the waivers and a person who is actually there to supervise ...why have DM at all...why not just send the kid who works in the dive shop to supervise!!! I think if your certified as a pro, and your working as a pro, you should at the least act like a pro.

Custer once bubbled...


They're certified divers, they're on their own.

Simple as that.

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Does that meen that an Instructor or DM who's teaching an AOW, specialty or Rescue course is not responsible for the students...after all, they have their C-Card

divemed06 once bubbled...

I think if your certified as a pro, and your working as a pro, you should at the least act like a pro.

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and in what way did he not act like a pro??
outside of smoking a cig ( and THAT is your bias, not "unprofessional"), you dion't give one example of anything that fits that criteria. what's he supposed to do while they're in the water - pace up and down the beach biteing his nails?

how many dive boats you been on where the DM checks you into the water and checks you out of it?

i just don't see the problem.

I must speak up here;

The DM smoked? So? He's not there to set an example of not smoking. In fact, I smoke. No, I don't huff and puff in people's face, but yes, I smoke. It' snot an example, it's my business.

These are certified divers, it's not an OW class, the DM does not need to babysit certified divers. If babysitting is required for these divers, then perhaps a refresher class is in order.

In California, many DM's don't even get in the water. They arn't required to. They checks cards, some assign the divers a numbered tag or some track diver IN THE WATER times, and track OUT OF THE WATER times. They give briefings, orientation to the site. And they watch for divers on the surface having problems. There are a few other duties, but that is the extent of it.

In OW classes, it's not uncommon for a DM to act as a certified assistant to an active status instructor on dives to keep everyone together and to chase down strays, etc.

divemed06 once bubbled...
Went diving with a few friends at well known "easy" shore dive. A group of about 10 divers from one of the LDS was there for an organized dive (they all signed waivers etc..at the dive site so that's how I know that this was an "organized" outing). Their DM, after collecting their waivers, decided to give the pre-dive brief...while smoking a couple of cigarettes (nice example to give). The group consisted of mostly OW divers with VERY little experience (I overheard half of them say that that they got certified a few years ago and hadn't gon diving). Only a couple within the group had dive this wreck...granted, conditions were pretty nice, vis 30 feet, water temp 75, depth 40 feet. We decide to hurry in before this group ruined the vis. After about a 40 minutes dive, we started to see some of the group following the guideline to the wreck and starting their dive (it took them a crap load of time before getting into the water). Luckily, we were finishing our dive cause this group was all over the bottom! :upset: After ascending, we noticed that the DM hadn't gone in the water. He was just lounging on the shore having another cigarette; I don't even think that he had gear with him. I approached the DM and told him that I was a bit worried about the group that was down there. His response: "They all have there c-card and they all signed the waiver"! My buddies and I decided to hang around on shore until the group was out...just to make sure everything was OK. Everything ended up being OK but two of the ladies ended up coming out of the water with their tanks hanging by the hoses (and not the tank band!) What a mess!!!

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divemed06 once bubbled...


Does that meen that an Instructor or DM who's teaching an AOW, specialty or Rescue course is not responsible for the students...after all, they have their C-Card

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Was this a class, or a recreational dive?