Meet George Jetson!

[Iguana Don]

Hey cats,

Check these out, where's that boy Elroy?

http://www.jetboots.com/

[Butch103]

Man could we scan some wrecks with those babies.

One small, minor thought,............wouldn't want to be makin an ascent and have those babies kick in ..................woooooosh not blow safety/deco stops might even set altitude records hehehe

Butch :Peace:

[Walter]

........Bio fins were expensive.

WWW™

[TexasMike]

Nifty Idea...

Kinda pricey though. Seems like you could probably get setup on a couple a scooters for the same outlay of moolah.

I do see one immediate use....parapalegic divers who don't have use of their legs.

[large_diver]

There was a brief blurb on these in the recently released fall issue of Immersed magazine.

[roakey]

For that kind of money you could get a Gavin and have money left over for a second battery!

Roak

[TexasMike]

I also wonder what ol' George Irvine has to say about such things?

[syruss32]

Those are way cool, but way overpriced. 5750 with the hard battery pack. I'm thinking for 5750 my money will be going to drager long before it goes to this place. If they made their price point in the 750-950 range they could be setting on a goldmine as many divers could afford them.

I mean lets be real these are motors from a trolling motor that costs a couple hundred dollars for top of the line and the batteries are available commercially already. I assume there are some basic controls but I doubt they are all that fancy.

But hey if they want to give me some to test, I'm their man!

[svs3]

TexasMike,

I think you know what GI3 thinks of these :1st:. :rolleyes:

A quick scan of techdiver archives (try jetboots as a subject query) will show that these contraptions have already been kicked around and kicked to death over there. I don't know about over here but they were not all that warmly received on techdiver. Needless to say (but I will anyway) nobody bothered to mention them on the Quest list.

;)
Sam

[boomx5]

For that kind of cash I could buy a real good gym membership to put some more meat on my bones and do it the good old fashion way. (or atleast buy a couple of scooters)

[Green_Manelishi]

made me want to run out and buy a pair !!!

[large_diver]

Yes, proving that not even techies are immune from using sex to sell gear....makes you you wonder when we'll start seeing scuba babes on the halcyon web site ;-)

[bmazin]

Hi Guys. My name is Ben Mazin, and I am the designer of Jetboots.

Interesting comments. Here is my general reply.

1) Jetboots are very expensive. I wish I could make them cheaper - I'd certainly sell a lot more. The problem is that in order for them to be more than a childrens toy they need to be extremely high tech - DC brusless motors and controllers, NiMH batteries, etc. and two of everything! The fact is that if they had the same mark up as a Gavin scooter they'd cost more like $15000 dollars. As it stands, the gavin is $3500 and Jetboots are $5000 (soft pack, $5250 hard pack). They are designed for different types of dives, but for certain dive profiles they are invaluable.

2) Tech list. Yes, Jetboots were mentioned on the aquanaut tech list. The opinion of them was actually rather positive (as you will know if you spend any time on that list they can be rather... critical). Jetboots aren't really designed for 18000' cave penetrations, but they are superb for some dives. For example, external photography of a deep wreck in a current. The hands free use is where they really shine (and fun dives - Jetboots are very, very fun).

3) Ascents. Don't use them for asents. Use your BC.

4) Parapalegic divers. Good call, TexasMike - we have had significant early interest from the handicapped diver community. Not just parapalegics, but people with knee and hip problems that make kicking painful or impossible. Also some interest from the military.

If you guys have any questions about Jetboots feel free to post questions here or email me at ben@jetboots.com. If you are interested in a Jetboots demo, we are located in Southern California and are happy to show them off. Check out the FAQ on the website for details.

Ben Mazin
President, MST
http://www.jetboots.com/

[Green_Manelishi]

But if I rev those babies up and use them for the ascent
I might not need to climb the ladder. Know what I mean?

G_M

[TexasMike]

Ben,

First off, let me welcome you to ScubaBoard and the ScubaSource Network. And thank you for providing more insite into your very interesting product.

We hope that you will contact either King Neptune or Lady Diver (ladydiver@home.com) who are the creators of the board. They are putting together some exciting stuff for divers across the world and are looking to collaborate with innovated manufacturers such as yoursef.

We also look forward to your participation in other discussins about gear and diving.

Again, a warm welcome to you sir!

--TexasMike

[Walter]

Ben, you don't use your BC to ascend. For ascents you should be neutrally buoyant and swim up. Buoyant ascents are dangerous.

WWW™

[syruss32]

Originally posted by bmazin
Hi Guys. My name is Ben Mazin, and I am the designer of Jetboots.

Ben Mazin
President, MST
http://www.jetboots.com/

Hello Ben,

Thanks for the comments. I still think you need to find a way to bring down the price and you would have a killer product for the scuba industry. They are high-tech but at that price they are toys for the rich.

I think we need a hands on demo of them. COuld you send me a pair or two to demo in our local lakes, I am sure after some of these rich oil barron scuba diving types in Texas get a chance to try them they'll be buying them for all their friends!

It is a great invention though! Keep working on pricing and mass production!

[omar]

Ben

Your take on the response in tech diver is very different than what I read. The regulars had a great laugh at this idea.

http://www.aquanaut.com/bin/mlist/aquanaut/techdiver/display?50203,subject

http://www.aquanaut.com/bin/mlist/aquanaut/techdiver/display?50222,subject

omar

[syruss32]

Originally posted by omar
Ben

Your take on the response in tech diver is very different than what I read. The regulars had a great laugh at this idea.

http://www.aquanaut.com/bin/mlist/aquanaut/techdiver/display?50203,subject

http://www.aquanaut.com/bin/mlist/aquanaut/techdiver/display?50222,subject

omar

Wow remind me not to post anything there, they are brutal. I think this is a good invention just needs some refinement which happens with all inventions. Proof positive for that is we are no longer diving in 260 pound brass suits.

Cut the guy a little slack!

Sheesh

[omar]

Syruss you will have to take it up with them.

In my opinion it has little practical utility and is fraught full of potential failure points. When an alternative is available that will outperform its intended function and will do it in a less expensive manner it kind of makes this item an expensive toy. So in the final cost benefit evaluation it is a failure.

Just because it is a new idea or invention does not mean that it is a viable product or even a good idea.

omar

[Butch103]

..........can't help but dislike the sooty tech divers. They are the only group in general I have met in the diving community I cannot stand. They are ignorant. This board at the very least showed some respect to Ben regarding his invention. The negative comment to him was polite and instructive in nature, not destructive as was the other board.

Congrats on your JetBoots, Ben hopefully someday we can get them affordable for all, but have to start somewhere, right??

Butch :Peace:

[large_diver]

The Maffatone comment is cruel......the lack of respect for the dead on that list never ceases to amaze me.

[bmazin]

The response from several members of the tech list was brutal at first, as it is with pretty much anything new introduced on that list. There was a decent amount of back and forth after those initial messages in which I think I made it clear to most of the list that Jetboots are a serious product. Some of the guys on that list really get their jollies out of vitriol, but I had private and on list conversations with a lot of them and I think I brought some around.

>In my opinion it has little practical utility and is >fraught full of potential failure points. When an >alternative is available that will outperform its intended >function and will do it in a less expensive manner it kind >of makes this item an expensive toy. So in the final cost >benefit evaluation it is a failure.

There are new failure points, but Jetboots eliminate some of the old failure points as well. For example, you can disconnect and if needed ditch the battery pack under water - you can't do this with a scooter. This means that the worst failure mode should be limited to losing Jetboots propulsion. Since you are wearing fins anyway this will only present a real problem in an overhead enviorment. In this case you should have a backup anyway.

>Just because it is a new idea or invention does not mean >that it is a viable product or even a good idea.

You are right. However, Jetboots do have some unique advantages. They are hands free. They are around 1/2 the weight of a scooter with comparable power and battery life (like the apollo av-1), and if you consider the negative bouyancy of the system they are even better in the weight department. There are others - check the FAQ section of our website.

Whoever said you ascend by swimming, you are of course correct. I meant that the person should use their BC to maintain neutral bouyancy and shouldn't use the thrust of Jetboots to overcome their negative bouyancy.

Ben Mazin
President, MST
http://www.jetboots.com/

[omar]

While the Tony Maffatone comment may sound cruel on the face of it, it may be an accurate assessment of the lethal potential of the Jet Boots. Mr. Maffatones Rube Goldberg contraption had an inherent design flaw that caused him to turtle when he breathed one tank empty and lead to his death.

It only takes a 2 to 3 psi change in lung pressure to cause an over inflation of the lungs, or arterial gas embolism, which can be fatal. Depths in swimming pools are sufficient to cause gas embolism if the swimmer has access to a source of air and takes even a single breath underwater and then ascends to the surface. As every diver should be aware of, air inspired at any depth expands during ascent and, if not allowed to escape freely, over inflates the lungs and elevates alveolar pressure, potentially resulting in the escape of gas into pulmonary veins. If the gas reaches the carotid arteries, embolization of cerebral vessels is almost inevitable.

What does this have to do with Jet Boots? If an untrained or inexperienced diver using these has a minor run away that results in a rapid ascent it could kill them. This has happened with experienced and trained divers with scooters. I think that a rigorous training course should be a part of the sales package to address this possibility.

omar

[bmazin]

Omar, you are of course correct in saying that rapid changes in depth are dangerous to divers. Jetboots, if anything, have an advantage in this area over scooters since with a little training they are very manueverable. This is spelled out in the instruction manual and we enclose a video demonstration with the units. I think this is more than the scooter manufacturers do. Jetboots do take a little practice and we strongly recommend that you have good bouyancy control before you use them, and also that you spend a couple of hours in a pool before you strike out into the ocean or other unpredictable enviornment.

Ben Mazin

[boomx5]

Ben, welcome to scubaboard. I think you will find your stay here a nice one. I really like the idea of the jet boots and think the idea is sound. I just wish there was some way of making the things cheaper without making you go bankrupt. If I could afford a pair, I would certainly buy a pair.
Scott

[scubadweeb]

I must admit that after browsing through the site I pictured me wearing a set, getting excited about something I saw, crankin' those babies up & ending up in Cuba by accident! My dive buddy shaking his head back & forth the entire time wondering; "When will she realize she’s passed the boat by a mile?”

...Sorry for the interruption.