Lost Confidence in diving

[aftershock109]

Hey long time reader first time poster, I have a bit of a Dilemma at the moment I am diving 12 months and have 70 dives under my belt and I love it, it’s such a fantastic sport so much to see enjoy and get from the sport, I started diving in Egypt last year did my open and advanced there and swiftly came back to Ireland and started diving regularly over here and continued to get more certifications to gain experience and explore further into the underwater world. I than did my rescue course which was really enjoyable and very eye opening to the reality of what can happen.
Soon after the Rescue course we were diving in a new location that was well known for its currents and we ended up on a drift dive which was part of the plan, and deployed our Dsmb’s and continued to drift for a few minutes and surfaced normally, unknown to us we had surfaced at lease 700m away from our Dive boat and we drifting extremely fast away from the boat we drifted about 5 miles away and were picked up by another boat that heard the mayday call from our skipper, we all made it back to land safe little shook up but safe none the less, an unfortunate incident that really was nobody’s fault but gave me a scare, However got over that fairly quick and was just allot more cautious on future dives.
Couple of weeks after that I started to train as a Divemaster done all my pool sessions and the likes was really enjoying the experience and working with the students. Not long into the training we were down at a Quarry to do some deep training to practice for an upcoming weekend away, there was a few students around taking part in a number of different courses, I was asked to help out of a Deep cert as part of my training, and I had no problems doing so I felt competent and ready, we all swam to the shot line to descend to 25 meters swim through a swim through down to 33meters there was four divers 1 very experienced instructor, myself trainee Divemaster, and 2 students, we all descended down the shot together and we reached the 25 meters mark and started the swim towards the 33m mark our positions were instructor leading the way 2 students directly behind him and me hovering slightly above the two students, when one of the students seemed to be very un comfortable under the water, Had had gotten a free flow due to the low temp in the Quarry, he was attempting to breath the reg but was start to show signs of panic in his face so I immediately offered up my octo which within a couple of seconds has caused both my regs to free flow the instructor at this stage was beside me and I tool his alterative and unluckily both his started free flowing causing a mess under the water bubbles were everywhere and we could see noting at some stage the reg that was in my mouth was knocked out and my mask was badly flooded I started to Panic, All the training in the world I just couldn’t cope with the mess that has started, short of breath and unable to retrieve my reg I preformed a CESA assent (I know it was too deep but at this stage i Just had to get to the surface. We all made it to the surface and the forth diver was still down there but had sent up his dsmb from 5meters to say he was okay and was just doing his safety stop. We all went onto O2 and were DCi free we were very lucky that the incident happened as soon as we dropped down the whole dive was 6minutes from descent to breaking the surface.
A week or two on a did 2 dives one shallow @10m and one @27m and they went well was very aware of the previous incident but was reasonably confident after practicing all my drills over and over to try help me and others out if a situation ever arose like before, The following weekend I went on a dive and dropped down the shot and was feeling like i couldn’t get enough air and wasn’t liking it, i was on the verge of panicking again i reached the bottom @26meters said to my buddy i want to surface so we surface normally and done our 5m safety stop and broke the surface didn’t want to keep the dive going and get into panic when i knew i didn’t feel comfortable and endangering me or my buddy so taught it was best to end the dive.
My problem is now i am a bit of a nervous wreck I really want to get back in to the water and continue the sport i love and enjoy, but i am a bit afraid and don’t know how to overcome this, how to gain my confidence back in my equipment and myself has anybody any suggestions, I don’t want to end my diving here, I need to get over this for my own sake and the sake on my sanity. I really would appreciate peoples suggestions and past experiences and ideas on how to overcome this

I hope somebody can help me

Thanks in advance

[Crush]

Hi aftershock109,

I am glad that you didn't get injured. Having experienced near-panic before during a dive, and being a cold-water diver, I have a few comments:

1. Stress is a normal human reaction to being placed in abnormal, stressful environments (such as being underwater). If not interrupted, stress can lead to panic. I would encourage you to keep diving, but scale back your dives and treat them seriously: (a) talk to your dive buddy about your previous experience so that s/he understands that you are trying to get back into it; (b) plan your dive and dive your plan. The scripting of the dive will help you to relax. Be sure that you discuss and plan what you will do in the case of stress - how will you resolve it (before it becomes panic) underwater (this is up to you, but breathe, stop, and think is a place to start). Thumb the dive before stress becomes panic; and (c) keep it shallow, keep it simple. Practice trim, different kicks, and safety drills with your buddy in no more than 3 meters of water. The shallow depth should relax you, and concentrating on skills will keep your mind from getting too worked up;

2. My experience with stress approaching panic was resolved underwater. The DM and I discussed how we would handle stress. Our solution was that I would settle on the (sandy) bottom on my knees and we would take a few minutes to breathe before we did anything else. After a minute (he timed us) he asked me what I wanted to do. I indicated that I would like to proceed with the dive. All went well thereafter;

3. Your reaction in the case of a free-flowing regulator was incorrect and exacerbated the problem. One of the main reasons for this error was likely that you were trained in warmer water where free-flow is not an issue. The simplest solution to a free-flow is to immediately thumb the dive and keeping the free-flowing reg in your mouth make a normal ascent to the surface. Begin Edit: the following applies if you caught the free-flow while it was still a trickle and you are not gushing air rapidly: Watch your pressure - you may have enough air to do a safety stop. However, do not risk going OOA - a safety stop is not mandatory if you have not gone into deco. End edit here. There is absolutely no reason to stop breathing off the free-flowing reg unless you are diving doubles with an isolation manifold and want to switch regs, isolate the free-flowing reg, and swish it about the water for a minute so as to melt the ice crystal (assuming a 2nd stage freeze-up). You can of course follow the same procedure using a buddy's octo (i.e., turn off your tank and swish your reg about in the water while breathing off an octo), but you run a real risk of causing his/her gear to free-flow as well owing to the larger demand for air; and

4. If you purchased gear in warmer climes, check to see that your regs are cold-water compatible. Get them serviced and indicate that they free-flowed. The technician might be able to adjust the pressures to help minimize the chances of this recurring.

[scorpiofish]

Your experiences aren't common, but they are not unique, at least in a general sort of way.

Unplanned events don't happen that often. When they start happening more often than they should, the mind takes over. In the back of your mind, you start thinking that some weird and not good event will happen when you get in the water.

An analogy would be one who experiences an event traveling by plane. Even though the odds of an event are 1 in a million, it happened to that person in one of x number of flights that they took (could have been their first flight). It is not easy for them to get on another flight.

From a diving perspective, what I have seen that seems to work is to go on a dive trip. It needs to be the easiest diving known to man. The water needs to be clear and warm with little current and shallow dive sites. Eliminate the potential causes of anxiety. What you need is to have lots of event free dives. Make diving as easy as possible.

I know people who have gone through the same process. The source of the anxiety was a little different, but the recovery process was the same.

BTW, taking students to deep dark cold waters for deep training gave me great anxiety. The dry suit is rotted. The doubles and stages have cobwebs. The rebreather is sitting on a shelf. After a 1,000+ dives, all my diving is in pool like conditions. Life is good.

[DandyDon]

Why are you going thru the DM course? Why not just enjoy diving? Good answers here already, but I'll add mine...

1: Carry SMB, mirror, dive light, and compressed air whistle on every dive to make finding your easier. I also carry a white trash bag for a night time too; fill with air and shine light into it.

2: Enjoy easier dives.

3: Dive with a good buddy when you can; a pony bottle helps too.

4: The Return key makes paragraphs; use often. :eyebrow:

[vshearer]

Umm, what kind of regulators were these? Just curious.

Overall, sounds like you did really well with the situations though.

[TSandM]

So THREE different regulators went into freeflow on this dive? Yikes! Sounds like some regs need adjusting, or folks have the wrong regs for the conditions.

I've been in one major freeflow incident, and it was very disorienting and stressful to be surrounded by bubbles, so I couldn't see, and subjected to the incredible NOISE. You had three divers tied together (always a bad idea) with all three of you free-flowing -- that had to have been pure chaos. Still, especially as a dive professional, it's your job to stay calm and THINK; as stated, the appropriate action would have been, once your reg freeflowed as well, to thumb the dive and make an expeditious ascent. You only have about 90 seconds of gas, once a full free-flow is in progress, so things have to be handled efficiently.

Did you debrief this situation with the instructor who was leading the class? What did HE do when his reg freeflowed?

As far as regaining confidence, I think it's like anything else. Start back with something that's absolutely non-challenging -- even pool time, if you can get it. Very gradually add complexity (depth, viz, etc.) as your confidence allows.

[SeaHorse81]

As far as regaining confidence, I think it's like anything else. Start back with something that's absolutely non-challenging -- even pool time, if you can get it. Very gradually add complexity (depth, viz, etc.) as your confidence allows.

Excellent advice from all. There is a very specific way to pace your re-entry back to any activity/experience that has come to be associated with anxiety, and which certainly applies here. You start, as has been stated, with easy experiences that give you no anxiety at all -- none. You do NOT want to practice additional anxiety at this point, because you're already getting too good at it, in a way.

After an experience (or two or three, whatever it takes) that involves no anxiety, notch up the challenge level to something that has just a bit of emotional edge to it, but which you feel confident you can manage successfully. You're bringing yourself to a level of wary alertness, but not anxiety. Stay at that level until it feels kind of boring, then notch up the challenge to whatever it is that now brings you again to wary alertness, but not anxiety. Repeat as necessary until you get back to where you want to be, and don't rush it. Better to have a great recovery that takes a tad long than to go too far, too fast and make the anxiety worse.

It sounds like you love this enough to get through it and have it be worth the effort. A passion is a terrible thing to waste. You also might find that enjoying this sport in a different manner than you initially intended might be right for you. You don't necessarily have to keep pressing boundaries, going for bigger, better, more novel, etc experiences. You might find yourself quite content to just go to a certain level and stay there, enjoying it fully.

Best of luck sorting it all out.

[robint]

I hope you do get back into the water, but I would stop the DM training for now. You need to get comfortable underwater again, and should not be watching another diver in the process. Glad to hear you were uninjured in the incident, too.
(BTW - my last dive, a few weeks ago, I had a regulator decide to free flow. First time in 10+ yrs and 400+ dives. I did a safe ascent, even did a 5 minute safety stop, watching my gauges the whole time. My reg was checked out at the dive shop the next day and they found alot of small sand particles in the 2nd stage. They rinsed it out, and I have it now ready to check out again. Our best guess is that I didn't get it soaked long enough after my last dive trip)

robin:D

[Tigerman]

I think that confidence in your gear is important, however it seems to me like youve been having TOO MUCH confidence in your gear. 3 sets of regs all freeflowing sounds to me like theive been either badly maintained or is just not the correct regulators for the conditions and badly maintained regulators or regulators used outside of their "are of operation" is not to be had confidence in..

[Crush]

3 sets of regs all freeflowing sounds to me like theive been either badly maintained or is just not the correct regulators for the conditions and badly maintained regulators or regulators used outside of their "are of operation" is not to be had confidence in..


So THREE different regulators went into freeflow on this dive? Yikes! Sounds like some regs need adjusting, or folks have the wrong regs for the conditions.

I may be wrong, but in my opinion the only unexpected free-flow was the first one. Once you start breathing off someone's octo in cold water at depth you more than double flow through the first stage regulator (owing to rapid respiration since you are panicked). The air, which is normally cold exiting the first stage, is now even colder. The second pressure drop at the second stages allows even more cooling to occur. Ice crystal formation becomes increasingly likely at each step.

You may want to ensure that your air supplier does an extra good job ensuring dry air fills during the cold months.

[DandyDon]

I may be wrong, but in my opinion the only unexpected free-flow was the first one. Once you start breathing off someone's octo in cold water at depth you more than double flow through the first stage regulator (owing to rapid respiration since you are panicked). The air, which is normally cold exiting the first stage, is now even colder. The second pressure drop at the second stages allows even more cooling to occur. Ice crystal formation becomes increasingly likely at each step.

You may want to ensure that your air supplier does an extra good job ensuring dry air fills during the cold months.
Good case for carrying a pony rather than an alternate reg.

[piikki]

What kind of local diving is available to you? What kind of buddies?

Like others have said it's time to scale down. Not the diving but the complexity. If I understood correctly what you said, you have been diving for a year and have <100 dives, a lot of those course dives - and now you are in DM training? I agree that it's sensible to put the DM training on back burner. Dealing with students new to diving is asking for having to deal with panic and discomfort when you need to get your comfort level back.

You want to get into water and a lot. If you have some nice mellow shore dives around that would be great. Some non-challenging boat dives with known buddies and responsible operators, great. Most important is to find buddies who you trust and hopefully buddies who are maybe more experienced than you, so you get that extra feel-good. I am not talking about making trust me dives and continuing doing more "under instructor supervision" dives. (Indeed it would be important for confidence to get more peer dives before moving in to DM:ing). I am just talking about getting over the hump of losing the confidence and not having to deal with divers you have to watch out for and doubt. And getting several dives under your belt without mishaps.

Do shallow dives with good visibility with good plans that you stick to. Do not complicate with new and different gear. Built other fun things around it, like social stuff. Don't expect things to go wrong but plan for it, so you get that secure feeling that you know what to do if things go haywire (make exit/separation plans even for easy sites, carry safety equipment for shore dives etc). Treat yourself kindly, tell your buddies what makes you nervous and don't dive with buddies who belittle problems or make you more tense.

[HateCheese]

Diving should be fun. And that should be something that you bump up on the priority list for a while. Not training, or something new. Others have said to focus on easy dives, but remember the point of this is to have fun. If not, why do it?

Skip the DM stuff for a while. A lot of your dive experience is being a student yourself. Dive more. Get your confidence up. AFTER your confidence is up, then start re-evaluating if you are ready to be a DM and what you want to get out of it.

Also look at it from the other perspective - would you want a DM trainee in the water with you during your OW class that doesn't have much confidence, may be shakey when it comes to panic, and doesn't have many dives other than classes? I wouldn't. And although most OW students wouldn't know to ask those question about your status/ability they wouldn't want that either.

Let everything you have learned in classes have some time to sink in. And again, just go out and have fun.

[Crush]

Good case for carrying a pony rather than an alternate reg.

DandyDon, I dive a single tank (rented AL 80) with a 19 cu ft pony - I am in perfect agreement with you. I didn't suggest a pony for two reasons: (1) a new gear configuration might not help a diving trying to get his mojo back; and (2) I was afraid that the anti-pony crowd would step in.

Several months ago, diving with my pony, I was practicing switching from my main tank to the pony and back when my pony stated to free-flow (very slowly). I switched back to my main tank reg, turned off the valve on the pony, swished the second stage about for 30 seconds, then turned the pony valve back on and switched to the pony reg. Free-flow stopped, problem solved. The only other ways to achieve the same end safely is with doubles/isolation manifold or a Y-adapter. The way I see it, my pony is a Y-adapter which has a built-in air reserve.

FWIW, I use a pony AND an alternate reg.

[xjeslesx]

I would suggest shallow dives. At least 10 to 20 shallow dives less than 10m. Go out have fun, get comfortable with both diving (again, and your gear (again).
I wouldn't worry about finishing your DM just yet. Take the next few weeks/months to get your confidence back.
If you have any doubt in your mind about your ability you should not be making deep dives, let alone being responsible for a students life.
If you do become a DM it is a large responsibility, don't take it lightly.

[DandyDon]

I think the consensus agrees to quit pushing so hard and have fun.

FWIW, I use a pony AND an alternate reg.
Me too, but in cold water I have considered removing the alternate.

[Puffer Fish]

I don't think it is so much the free flow, but how one acts during the event. If your confidence was based on the belief that you would act calmly in the face of adversity...and you suddenly find out that is not true, there is going to have to be some emotional resolution...

I would suggest that what you did is very normal, and you seem to be missing the superman gene (which I may see one day, but so far we all seem to be missing it).

From personal experience, I've had a lot of free flows...and have handled several really bad...but I now have a very clear path to follow if that were to happen...and the event does not scare me....however:

1. I was on a plane going to Viet Nam that crashed on take-off in AK...most of the people on the plane lived.. just not the row in front of me. To this day, if a plane takes a long time getting up, I get scared...I know I will, I try to relax.. but if it feels like that event...I get the first stages of panic. But I don't go any farther..and I just relax myself out of it...I cannot seem to stop it, but I can control it. I still fly.

2. I've been thru an Oceanic white tip attack... rammed, grabbed (by the fin thankfully), shaken...several times. Just hitting me ripped areas of skin. Never saw it before it hit. It scared me bad... I had trouble sleeping afterwards and to tell the truth, had trouble diving.. even stopped for a couple of years. But I love diving, and life is very short..and for a while, after that, when I saw a shark, I wanted to run... but gradually it went away.

I hope you take some of the excellent advice given here, but in the end... if you are not having fun... don't do it...and if you are just scared you will act that way again...I can tell you it is very unlikely....as it is the one thing you will now have a clear plan for.

[lamont]

I'd definitely stay above 70 ft / 21m

There's a fuzzy line somewhere around there where you can get darc narc or panic below that level due to narcosis and CO2 buildup pretty easily, but above that it all seems to clear up.

You've probably got a bit more than that alone going on since fundamentally you've gotten nervous about diving. But as you try to get more comfortable in the water, going below 21m and getting yourself narc'd isn't going to help you get more comfortable and will just reinforce the sense of anxiety and panic that you have.

So, stay above 21m and try to rebuild your sense of comfort.

I'd also say that you need more training and experience. You haven't had all the training in the world yet, and you just figured out what the limits of that are. That doesn't mean that you can't get that experience and build up that training, but you just got some feedback from Reality(tm) that you were going too fast, too soon. Slow down a bit. Do easier dives, don't try to take on DM responsibilities yet.

[FritzCat66]

I've been thru an Oceanic white tip attack... rammed, grabbed (by the fin thankfully), shaken...several times. Just hitting me ripped areas of skin. Never saw it before it hit. It scared me bad... I had trouble sleeping afterwards and to tell the truth, had trouble diving.. even stopped for a couple of years. But I love diving, and life is very short..and for a while, after that, when I saw a shark, I wanted to run... but gradually it went away.

Wow - Not to derail this thread, but that sounds like a great story right there. Have you posted about it in detail somewhere else here that you could link to?

[eelpout]

There will be a lot of advice given but the most important thing to do is get back in the water. Get the experience, get at ease with your own diving skills and have fun. I trained divers for the past 30 years in cold water and with experience you will learn how to anticipate this when it happens and with your experience you should be able to deal with it.

Jim

[aftershock109]

Listen first of all thanks all so much for you replies both good and bad, couple of things to mention I have knocked the Dm on the head for the time being as I dont want to out anybody at risk whilst i am still in the mindset I am. I have offered to help out in the pool if things get tight in the club as i am very comfortable in there as its easy diving.

Also i few people have ask why the rush to become a Dm the reason i really wanted to be a Dm came from two main reasons firstly due to years of playing golf and single player sports i have never been part of a team therefore never being able to help out my club, so by becoming a Dm in Diving I saw an opportunity to help out people help out my club in my spare time giving me a great sense of satisfaction and involvement within the Dive club, also another reason was the education involved within the course is very beneficial to any diver and teaches you allot of interesting and important information involved within diving, and in my eyes education in this sport is key to improving your safety and safety of others.

A couple of people have asked me about the regs involved and set ups used in the free flow incident My instructor was wearing twins with 2 Ds4's and 2 Lx supreme's primary was on a long hose setup well capable of handling the cold, i was on a single with dry sealed Fdx10 with Delta 4.1 and Alpha 8 octo and the other student was on Cdx10 with 2 Alpha unsure of the cold water rating on cdx10. All regs where serviced recently mine were only serviced 2 weeks previously and working well and setup well and retested after the incident the only thing reg wise i would do different would be to make sure the venturi knob is set to the hardest setting. Also in relation to the free flow all free flows where violent none were just a trickle. I have know purchased a pony bottle but still trying to get a few $'s together to purchase regs for it, but as somebody mentioned not to change your gear setup till confidence raises i totally agree and will keep that bottle in storage for the immediate future

This weekend I have bitten the bullet and booked in for a dive with the local Dive operator its a 10 - 15 meters light drift dive in a easy environment i am looking forward to it and apprehensive about it too, but should be okay, Vis is about 5 meters which is typical ''Irish Diving'' its really the best i am going to get. I will post tomorrow and let you know how i get on. In relation to Buddies it can be very difficult to dive with a regular buddy as I am new to the sport i dont know very many divers and the ones i do know are living long distances away or aren't diving much due to other commitments or both. So i nearly have to take whats handed to me within reason.

Once again thanks for all your replies and advice i have taken it all on board and hope to keep diving, I hope i haven't forgotten to address anyone questions if i did let me know i will answer them. Having said that if people have more information or advice the more the merrier

Thanks

Aftershock

@DandyDon Found that return key :-P

[DandyDon]

Also i few people have ask why the rush to become a Dm the reason i really wanted to be a Dm came from two main reasons firstly due to years of playing golf and single player sports i have never been part of a team therefore never being able to help out my club, so by becoming a Dm in Diving I saw an opportunity to help out people help out my club in my spare time giving me a great sense of satisfaction and involvement within the Dive club, also another reason was the education involved within the course is very beneficial to any diver and teaches you allot of interesting and important information involved within diving, and in my eyes education in this sport is key to improving your safety and safety of others.
Well really, you can help the club just by being willing to dive with newbies as dive buddies. Try to be happy with that for a while

This weekend I have bitten the bullet and booked in for a dive with the local Dive operator its a 10 - 15 meters light drift dive in a easy environment i am looking forward to it and apprehensive about it too, but should be okay, Vis is about 5 meters which is typical ''Irish Diving'' its really the best i am going to get. I will post tomorrow and let you know how i get on. In relation to Buddies it can be very difficult to dive with a regular buddy as I am new to the sport i dont know very many divers and the ones i do know are living long distances away or aren't diving much due to other commitments or both. So i nearly have to take whats handed to me within reason.
Sounds great, and as I said - you're helping the club even then.

@DandyDon Found that return key :-P
:D

Have you met my stalker...?

What brand and size trash bag do you prefer? It seems like anything over 13 gallons would be difficult to fill in an emergency. do you risk disconnecting your "air whistle" to fill the trash bag or is this done orally?
A white trash bad is a poor smb in itself, but in addition to the other items I carry to help me be found - it can be a nice additional signaling item. I got that idea from a Florida boat captain who lost his wife and best friend to the sea for half a day, but fortunately found them after they managed to swim to shore. They'd carried nothing and it was one of the items he mentioned that should be carried. Not very durable but seem to ride in my BC for a week at a time ok, then still hold trash in later use. Even if the one I am carrying leaks when I need it, it would still serve as a white floating marker on the sea for someone looking for me with their lights.

It is funny how my stalker follows me around. :rofl3: I hear he's a good diver with a good life, but still must have some problems to devote attention to me like that. I'm sure he talked about this with his dog pile cohorts in private discussions. I never have time for him, but oh well.

[berk]

How many dives in your log book say Egypt and how many say Ireland?

Given the conditions, you'll learn more in the first 50 dives in Ireland than you will in any course. I would say do more diving and less courses.

Being a buddy and active is just as valuable as being a DM to your club. A club first and foremost needs divers!

-Matt

[ameneon]

Would setting the venturi switch to - right before sharing air reduce the risk of free flowing regs when in very cold water? Or would that be a bad idea because of the increased difficulty of breathing in a scenario where the buddy might need alot of air?

[vshearer]

Someone mentioned earlier a wet fill. Considering the regs used that might be worth checking out. Check a tank or two.

[Matt S.]

To the OP: Over a year ago I was a first responder to a drowning diver, and participated in a recovery. I don't want to go into the details, but it was an awful experience. While I was not at risk, the whole thing quite honestly took the shine off diving. To this day I get a little case of the nerves when I am driving to the site, and diving overall just isn't as great as it used to be. That's a painful thing to deal with but it gets a little better every time.

I think I will heal completely in time, and I am sure you will too. You have been given some good advice in this thread. Don't be discouraged if your attitude doesn't improve quickly. It may take a while.

[aftershock109]

Hey folks

Just back from my dive max depth 13m with 41min bottom time poor vis of about 2-3m and very silty but from a confidence point of view I felt good very nervous before dive but once I got in the water was okay had one or two moments where I felt I couldn't get enough air but I just stopped relaxed and got my breath my sac rate was actually very good too so all round happy this shallow easy programme seems the best way and I'm going to keep it up for sometime yet

Thanks again

Aftershock

[vshearer]

Hey folks

Just back from my dive max depth 13m with 41min bottom time poor vis of about 2-3m and very silty but from a confidence point of view I felt good very nervous before dive but once I got in the water was okay had one or two moments where I felt I couldn't get enough air but I just stopped relaxed and got my breath my sac rate was actually very good too so all round happy this shallow easy programme seems the best way and I'm going to keep it up for sometime yet

Thanks again

Aftershock

Congrats Aftershock, not just for the report and continuing your diving, but also for providing such interesting intermission entertainment while we all waited with the Chip 'n [-]Dale[/-] Don show on your first SB thread!

[lamont]

Hey folks

Just back from my dive max depth 13m with 41min bottom time poor vis of about 2-3m and very silty but from a confidence point of view I felt good very nervous before dive but once I got in the water was okay had one or two moments where I felt I couldn't get enough air but I just stopped relaxed and got my breath my sac rate was actually very good too so all round happy this shallow easy programme seems the best way and I'm going to keep it up for sometime yet

Thanks again

Aftershock

keep that up, and get a bunch more of those dives in until you start to feel relaxed doing those dives again.

and please keep in mind what i said that diving below 21m can cause anxiety due to physiological reasons dealing with CO2 hits. if you start doing that too soon you're probably going to wind up conditioning yourself to associating diving with anxiety when it doesn't have to be that way. when you do start doing deeper dives, keep your dive plans so that you can just take short excursions below 21m and ascend above that level if you start feeling anxious (profiles where there's stuff to see below and above 21m). you'll probably find that if your mind starts spinning into anxiety below 21m for no particularly good reason that if you ascend and take a few good deep breaths that your brain magically clears up...

i'd also suggest doing a bunch of skills + drills while doing shallow ~10m dives.

[lamont]

BTW, what you're fighting is just classical conditioning.

because of the highly negative emotional experience you had, your brain is training itself to associate anxiety with diving.

while working through little hiccups of anxiety like you had on this dive can be constructive, if you really start to spiral into anxiety its going to be counter-productive to try to 'work through it'.

if you have persistent anxiety that isn't a flash or a hiccup, while you're still largely in control and its not emotionally impactful, i'd suggest immediately ascending 10m or so, or else just ending the dive and cutting it short. if you try to power through it you're more likely to just have it spiral out of control and start associating diving with anxiety and panic again, and reinforce your brains association between diving and anxiety (causing more anxiety in the future). don't get suckered into the ego-driven idea that you're 'weak' if you end a dive due to a bit of unexplained anxiety -- you're not weak and your brain is being perfectly rational -- you had a bad experience when you were diving before and its giving you feedback (anxiety) to make sure you remember that.

[DandyDon]

Aftershock109, glad to hear the good news. Keep at it in a prudent matter and it will work out ok I bet. :thumb:

[ONESPEED]

Now if we could please get back to the topic at hand, there is a thread related to trash bags in the sea this topic is more relevant in. Excellent Point!! (http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/basic-scuba-discussions/350902-taking-garbage-bags-water.html)

[Cave Diver]

The off topic signaling conversation has been moved to here:http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/general-scuba-equipment-discussions/351184-alternative-signaling-methods.html

There is also another related thread on the subject here: Excellent Point!! (http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/basic-scuba-discussions/350902-taking-garbage-bags-water.html)

[tracydr]

To the OP. I'd like to recommend a a DVD on guided imagery that helped me a great deal with PTSD. It's very relaxing and highly effective. It was tested with vietnam domestic violence victims. It's a CD by Belle Ruth Naperstak. You can just google her name to order it. Best little bit of money I spent on recovery. I put it on my iPod from iTunes and listened to it every night for about a year.

[H2OBio]

To the DM candidate with the free- flow panic sitch...

As a claustrophobic diver myself- I can give you this bit of a boost. The very first time I had to dive with a hood on- I panicked. I mean full on freak out- couldn't get out of the water fast enough. I hate planes, my sister can't fly and my aunt can't wear panty hose- I come by this honestly... runs in the fam.

The DM for my OW class told me "diving isn't for everyone". She meant to be reassuring and just ended up making me mad... I had been raised on the water- I was in boats before I could walk- I was on a swim team in high school- no way was this going to end it for me…

I trained in a hood after that- they laughingly called me the "ninja" in class- but I made it through- and then through AOW, and Rescue and recently all the way through DM.

The guys that did my last cert knew that I was a claustrophobe- (and to this day- I positively refuse to try Cave- it is just too much for me- I have done Cavern- that wasn't easy...) what I was getting at was- they beat the hell out of me. They snuck up and turned off my air, they ripped regs out of my mouth- trying to simulate panicked rescue situations- ripped off masks, fins- they probably would have tried to rip me out of my suit if they thought I wouldn't later hunt them down and kill them....

If I was going to panic they wanted it to happen when I was with them- and I admit, in the beginning they got me to the edge a few times- when you have someone wrapped around your body from behind, who has ripped out your reg- is wacking you over the head- and you are claustrophobic- hey cut me some slack... and I did it with a hood on to boot...

My point is, if you want it badly enough- you can work through it. The important thing in any situation is- stop and THINK first. I have procedures that allow me the time to get situated in the water before I go out with students. I still have moments at depth now and then- I stop- give my buddy “the hand”- I close my eyes- and repeat… I've done this a million times, I have plenty of air, this is my favorite thing in the world… I know I can do this- and then I open them.

I KNOW I can do this. The guys did give me that - so thanks guys! Oh and P- when I hit you in the crotch that one time in the lake- I swear it really was an accident....

[InTheDrink]

So THREE different regulators went into freeflow on this dive? Yikes! Sounds like some regs need adjusting, or folks have the wrong regs for the conditions.

I've been in one major freeflow incident, and it was very disorienting and stressful to be surrounded by bubbles, so I couldn't see, and subjected to the incredible NOISE. You had three divers tied together (always a bad idea) with all three of you free-flowing -- that had to have been pure chaos. Still, especially as a dive professional, it's your job to stay calm and THINK; as stated, the appropriate action would have been, once your reg freeflowed as well, to thumb the dive and make an expeditious ascent. You only have about 90 seconds of gas, once a full free-flow is in progress, so things have to be handled efficiently.

Did you debrief this situation with the instructor who was leading the class? What did HE do when his reg freeflowed?

As far as regaining confidence, I think it's like anything else. Start back with something that's absolutely non-challenging -- even pool time, if you can get it. Very gradually add complexity (depth, viz, etc.) as your confidence allows.

My thoughts precisely. Everyone going into free flow at once - that's just a really really bad day. And yes, I know that two divers breathing of a reg makes it more likely.

First - top job to the OP. I don't think too many people have faced your situation. You and your buddies acquitted yourselves very well indeed.

Secondly, to the wider board (and maybe this should be split out - happy to do so if enough interest) - what strategies do you employ to shut down free flows? I've only ever had them shallow and a good talking to normally resolves the problem. But it sounds like there are more difficult free flows to manage - what are the best strategies to manage them???

Thanks - and well done again OP, for your initial management of the situation and your courage getting back in the saddle. Nice one.

John

p.s. (I'm from Dublin :))

[dwhthediver]

I hate to harp on the regs, but it sounds like the IP is set too high... especially on the LX Supremes, I dive that regulator under ice, and have shared air with it under ice with no free flow issues, check the IP on the regs, or the gauge that checked them when they were serviced. I am glad your dives went well, continue to plan less stressful dives, dive your plan and then start adding minor challenges in the way of depth, viz, current etc.
It does sound like you are heading in the right direction.

[aftershock109]

Listen folks thanks all again for all your positive responses and fantastic advise its really helped me back in the water and allows me to relax a bit more because i dont want to give up diving its the best sport ever !!! And i have to say sitting back and looking at the broader picture its nice to start diving for myself and just enjoy it and gain experience :-)

[Mike Juren]

another thing you can do for a greater peace of mind is to carry a sufficient pony bottle with an extra reg. I dive in the Pacific North West, and here serious divers all have one, like if it was part of the basic set-up.
If you all had one, the emergency would be most likely averted... :-)

[Matt S.]

I don't think a pony bottle is a requirement for being a serious diver. Knowing gas management is more important.

Being a serious diver is more about skills than gadgets.

[jd950]

FWIW, I think a person should have more dives and more experience under their belt before becoming a DM/instructor. More time and more dives means more opportunities to experience problems and issues and learn your own abilities, strengths and weaknesses.

One year and 70 dives isn't enough for most people.

I am sure some would disagree with that, but it is my opinion, both in general and in your case. There are many activities, both sporting and professional where a person would not even be eligible to train as a "professional" without substantial experience. No offense, but the panic at the time and hesitation now should sugget you wait before pursuing the DM thing. You are not ready to have other people depending on you as a "dive professional." I am not slamming you...just slow down and the time will come. Or it won't. Nothing wrong with being a recreational diver.

You have years ahead of you to become a DM, if that is what you want. Take it slow and take the pressure off of yourself to reach some goal and you will be able to enjoy diving again.

[soltari675]

I understand how you feel completely. I didn't have a complete emergency, but I dealt with getting nervous of diving just a couple days ago.

I am a new diver. I just certified about 4 weeks ago. I've done 9 dives since. The other day we go out on our first dive in a quarry. No problem. We talk out our dive plan, and then descend. At about 10 feet I feel like I can't get enough air. I am practically gasping. Since we hadn't gone far, I went to the surface. Buddy stayed with me. I take a few deep breaths. I check my regulator to make sure it's turned up and not set to all minimums. Everything is ok. So I try again. Same thing. 10-15ft I can't breath. Mask is flooding and I panic and go to the surface. After the third time, I decided to sit out. Buddy went with another person with us.

The entire time they were down there I beat myself up. I don't panic in water. I usually think very logically about everything. The problem was small too. I had my hair up too high, which caused the mast to sit odd. I didn't feel a difference but as I started to feel pressure descending, it was siphoning water into the mask and straight at my nose. I did a panic response and tried to get air any way I could, which meant breathing through mouth AND nose which obviously created my no air problem.

I fixed the issue, but I had a hard time going back out. It made me nervous everytime I stepped into the water. I kept telling myself it was silly, but there it was. What I did is I went under a couple times where I could stand and just breathed underwater. Let my brain accept I could get air. Then we actually descended onto one of the 20ft training platforms. Again, it was a "safe" spot where I could adjust and just breathe. After I did that, no problem. I made 3 dives that day without thinking twice.

So my best suggestion is to go back to what feels safe, even if it feels like it's for beginners. Go back to the platforms, the pool, wherever you need to. Just let yourself breathe, move around and let your brain accept you are ok. And go from there.

[aftershock109]

Hey Folks

Really sorry i haven't been on in a long time kinde knocked the diving on the head for the winter months and took me a while to get back in. Anyway i was in for my first dive back on Monday and did two dives and they went well first dive was 57min at 11 meters and second was 30 minutes at the same depth. On the first dive i was very nervous for the first 10 minutes or so and found it hard to get enough air but when i settled down and just enjoyed the dive i really did enjoy it i can happily say it was great to get back in the water and i wil be back to regular diving gonna stay in the reasonably shallow depths for a while and not exceed about 15 meters till i feel really comfortable bouyancy control was alright but needs a little more practice but it was a very strong point before the accident so shouldnt take long to get back right.
Thanks for all your kind words and glad to be a DIVER again :-)